REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Why I'm a Democrat, or rather, not a Republican

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 2, 2011 09:47
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VIEWED: 1450
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Friday, July 29, 2011 10:04 AM

DREAMTROVE


'cause republicans suck:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/science/earth/28enviro.html?_r=1&ref
=fishandwildlifeservice


Seems that the GOP will sell the nation's financial system into collapse if they can trade it for an opportunity to destroy the planet.

Quote:

With the nation’s attention diverted by the drama over the debt ceiling, Republicans in the House of Representatives are loading up an appropriations bill with 39 ways — and counting — to significantly curtail environmental regulation.


They arer clearly stacking these up to negotiate for them in exchange for the spending the administration craves. This illustrates two problems, 1) spending, because it makes you somebody's bitch, and 2) that the GOP in this scenario is a prison rapist, which seems appropriate.

Seems that some tea party folk need to examine who it is exactly who is treading on them. I happen to feel very tread on at the moment with fracking trucks rolling through leaving tread marks and over a million barrels of WMDs deliberately dispersing onto our land.

Don't tread on me, Chesapeake Energy. Remember Saddam spraying WMDs on the Kurds? Remember how that worked out for him?

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Friday, July 29, 2011 10:19 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


O'course. The republicans are going to pass something REALLY TERRIBLE, an omnibus legislation of really bad shit on every level and every subject, at 11:59 PM Monday night, then send it to Obama. And he can sign it, and avoid default, or veto it and then the consequences will be on HIM. The same people who bitched about not being able to read the complete Obamacare legislation, will tweet him a summary of the bill and expect him to sign it: afterward they will say that all the nasty stuff in there is his fault.

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Friday, July 29, 2011 2:55 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Oh, gawd, the environment. Reading that made me "feel very tread on at the moment with fracking trucks rolling through leaving tread marks" --all the way down my back.

That's the way of TRUE conservation, environmentally-speaking. You can fight and fight and win a battle, but it's never truly "won"...and once the assholes win, it's all over forever.

It's getting harder by the day not to say "I want to kill these fuckers!" I'm trying...I'm trying...


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, July 29, 2011 4:01 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Nah, it's not them I want, Niki - see, people like to have a small, easy target, sure...

But the fact is, without their enablers, without the folk who out of ignorance or malice carry out their will, these assholes are nothing more than a jerk in a suit with a loud mouth, and there's plenty of those in the world already.

And so I use education and reason on those acting out of ignorance, and condemnation of various form upon those acting out of malice, cause that is always the key - cutting off the supply of goons willing to obey them.

Now, you CAN do this by sinking the bastard so far that the cowardly pack turns on them and pretends to never have supported them, but then they'll just find a new figurehead to do the same shit, and remain a threat, a jackal is a jackal...

So you break the assembly lines within our society which produce them, or poison the indoctrination by offering alternatives early enough to make them always question it, even if they don't turn, the constant questioning will irritate the true believers and sap the will of the ignorant, a poison pill for fascists.

Which is exactly where the conservative jackals are now, putting up figurehead after figurehead, nuts and lunatics, desperately trying to find someone to place in power to give them the orders, to enable their malice, to offer official sanction to their evil.

So it's not the figureheads which matter, although using them for pop-up targets in a political sense is amusing, like swatting a fly with a lincoln continental...
It's the enablers, the jackals looking for validation of their hate, their malice, that you should be concerned about.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, July 29, 2011 4:09 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I wish I had your courage, and your know-how, Frem. When it comes to the environment, abortion and animals (we all have our priorities!), it's too easy for me to get triggered and emotional. I can take people dumping on me just fine, no problem, but when they go after the weak and defenseless, I'm not very, uh, "effective" if you will.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, July 29, 2011 5:48 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Old, old story:
A hillbilly butchered a hog, but it was late in the day, so he hung it from a tree in the field, near the road, overnight to bleed out.

Got up next morning, went out there, half the hog was gone. Called the sherrif: " Hey , Sherrif, some Democrat stold half of my hog last night."

Sherrif sez: " How do you know it was a Democrat?"

" 'Cuz if it was a Republican, he'd a' stold the whole dam' thing."

The story is, of course, completely reversible.

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Friday, July 29, 2011 5:50 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Excellent, NewOld, and of course it's reversable. Eloquently illustrates the truth.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Friday, July 29, 2011 6:59 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


I didn't see mentioned in the article the bit about them opening up the freaking Grand Canyon for uranium mining.

Seriously.

Is there ANYTHING about America that these fucking assholes don't hate?

What's next? Mountaintop removal of Mount Rushmore?

We already have one of pRick Perry's "patriotic" god-freak buddies claiming that the Statue of Liberty is an evil idol...

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Friday, July 29, 2011 8:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


http://images.lolfly.com/images/372/source/evolution_of_man-955-1.jpeg

This is the Republican platform. Only without the evolution part. :)

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Saturday, July 30, 2011 6:57 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mike, it has nothing to do with "hate"; it's about "profit". The question tome would be more "is nothing in this country sacred enough to be more important than making a short-term profit off it?"

Gawd, that comic's eloquent!



Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Saturday, July 30, 2011 10:31 AM

FREMDFIRMA



Mikey, you've NO IDEA how even the concept of doing that to Blair Mountain enrages me, especially considering what happened there, and why!

Although that comic gives me a nasty idea, might be worth convincing a few of the midnight gardeners to infiltrate the gated ivory towers where these fuckers live and deliver unto their homes some of the toxic shit they're willing to foist on others.

-F

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Saturday, July 30, 2011 11:57 AM

DREAMTROVE


You don't need to, just give them a chance to stop for a shower in some of their own mustard gas laced water. It won't kill 'em, but it will give them something to remember you by...



That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, July 30, 2011 2:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Frem, DT: Y'know, it's a great idea, dumping a few hundred thousand gallons of mine slurry and fracking fluids on the lawns of the fuckers who run the companies doing the deeds - but you KNOW you'd be charged with dumping toxic waste if you did it. What's more, you'd likely be charged with terrorism.

The cruel irony here is the idea that the bastards who do this shit for a living are subsidized with OUR tax dollars to do it, while if we tried to do the same thing back to them, not only would we not get paid, we'd be heavily fined AND imprisoned.

Of course, more cruel irony in that we're constantly being warned about the dangers of a potential "dirty bomb" attack on our soil by "those danged Mooslims", while the corporations we're supposed to hold dear and worship the logos of are setting off dozens of their own dirty bombs every single day in this country.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, July 30, 2011 6:59 PM

DREAMTROVE


Oh, I'd never do that, their lawns are full of life forms I respect.

You wouldn't have to do anything, just let them stay at the hotel that uses the water that they have assured the hotel is safe.

You know those plastic jugs they're giving victims? I'd like to see some photoshops of someone taking a bath in one, or swimming, doing laps, or some dad sitting with his son and fishing in one.


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
but you KNOW you'd be charged with dumping toxic waste if you did it. What's more, you'd likely be charged with terrorism.


That's exactly the point, with the proper spin and winding up a media circus with a bit of flair and sensationalism (and possibly celebrity involvement), it'd bring the point to the public consciousness in a really unignorable way...

HOW IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THEY DO TO US ?

And then the shit'll hit the fan, bigtime.

It's actually not real hard to wind up a lynch mob in one form or another, so long as you know the right buttons to push.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Sunday, July 31, 2011 3:13 AM

DREAMTROVE


That's pretty clever actually: In order to prosecute the "terrorist" the other side would have to define fracking fluid as toxic waste, and not "produced water" or some other such nonsense.

Hell, just go up and take a leak in their beer and say "Hey, this is produced water, it's 98% pure water, just like you say yours is, you know, the stuff you told us to drink."


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, July 31, 2011 4:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
That's pretty clever actually: In order to prosecute the "terrorist" the other side would have to define fracking fluid as toxic waste, and not "produced water" or some other such nonsense.

Hell, just go up and take a leak in their beer and say "Hey, this is produced water, it's 98% pure water, just like you say yours is, you know, the stuff you told us to drink."


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.




Kinda wondered how long it would take for someone to glom onto that... ;)


"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, July 31, 2011 5:05 PM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

Kinda wondered how long it would take for someone to glom onto that... ;)



Problem is someone would have to volunteer to be sacrificial lamb.



That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Sunday, July 31, 2011 7:57 PM

FREMDFIRMA



So ?
Convince someone who's already doomed, dying of cancer due to this crap, and then you also don't have to worry too much about unsafe handling.
Duh.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, August 1, 2011 5:14 AM

DREAMTROVE


Good point. It's not something my sister would ever do, but unfortunately people dying of cancer from this stuff are getting pretty common. I know one less now, a local girl died from the condition, which we are told is "about one in a million" so "we must live in a hotspot" which is odd because these deaths are all recent. Curiously, the doctors don't seem to think it "some local virus" but perhaps more likely fracking fluid, which I've just found out they're pouring on the roads, and calling "brine."


That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, August 1, 2011 12:58 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Oh, I'd never do that, their lawns are full of life forms I respect
DT: Priceless! As is
Quote:

Hell, just go up and take a leak in their beer and say "Hey, this is produced water, it's 98% pure water, just like you say yours is, you know, the stuff you told us to drink."
You're on a roll!

However, my response to your last post was to have my heart break. "Bastards!" is too kind, and an insult to real bastards.


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Monday, August 1, 2011 1:21 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Actually, it would be an amazingly awesome thing for someone with cancer to do - because they'd ALSO get healthcare out of the deal!

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Monday, August 1, 2011 2:49 PM

DREAMTROVE



Niki

Thanks. Ay si' right now. Chemo again tomorrow, through the week, all last week too, they're not sure. As for the other girl, I knew her, sweet girl, very pretty.

Myself, i want to get the motherfrackers, you know, the ones behind the fracking.


Mike,

Not sure I follow.


Small snag: cancer victims don't always die, we have two survivors here, pretty badly damaged, with some really unpleasant stories to tell, but i can see those who have it actually not wanting to risk a secondary cancer. The recurrent brain cancer is basically 100% fatal, but I'm not sure, probably someone would volunteer, but it seems more likely a healthy person would.

It's a problematic situation: we need to fight the attack, and do so effectively, while looking for a cure for those already affected.
That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Monday, August 1, 2011 3:35 PM

BYTEMITE


I found a story once about people who survived similar contamination, with similar symptoms... On a military base. They use a lot of chlorinated solvents. Either from degreasing engines, or buried chemical weapons, or something to do with the jets and fuel, not sure.

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 1:00 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
I found a story once about people who survived similar contamination, with similar symptoms... On a military base. They use a lot of chlorinated solvents. Either from degreasing engines, or buried chemical weapons, or something to do with the jets and fuel, not sure.



They do, lots of TCE stuff like that, some of the same chemicals that are used in fracking. They give them nicknamseslike Mr. death, and joke about how "this will kill me before the enemy" but it will.. I've known several people to die in the military from cfc exposure, and many who was shot or bombed by the enemy, but no one who was killed by the enemy.

I have wondered in the past on why they don't use common non-toxic agents, but as this stuff is basically super potent WMDs, I suspect the cleansing agents are an excuse to have chemical weapons on hand, while not conceding that we are violating the geneva conventions.

I used to work with a company that did stress testing for the military to make the plastics that would contain the toxins, and the military guys who we were doing it for would just refer to them as chemical weapons, no attempt was made to hide it.

Military base cases are pretty bad here too, people's skulls eroding and stuff, Also, some general membrane dissolution like the lungs, liver, lymph nodes. And the guy whose brain leaked out his nose. (someone else I know, it's somehow more disturbinng when you hear these things first hand)

Yet another reason you don't want this stuff pumped into your home and poured on the roads and drakning into the drinking water.




That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 9:39 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Byte, Erin Brockovich is still at it, you know, and is dealing with pollution on the base at Camp Lejune, North Carolina, among others. One of them might be what you heard about. Last month:
Quote:

America’s environmental guardian angel has swooped down to take up a new cause. Ms. Brockovich has agreed to join the fight for veterans and their families to hold Camp Lejeune responsible for the health problems caused by the U.S. military base’s thirty years of water contamination.

According to a statement by Brockovich, “We need to look at what happened at Camp Lejeune, the ground water contamination,” she said. “Who’s been affected, find them all and make sure that we do everything possible to make their future a little bit brighter.”

The pollution at Camp Lejeune is well documented and is in fact the largest Defense Department contamination incident on record. Lindell Kay, of Jacksonville News, reports that “at least 500,000 people may have been exposed in the 30-year period from 1957 to 1987 to a host of toxic chemicals, including known human carcinogens benzene and vinyl chloride, as well as drying [sic] cleaning solvents and degreasers.”

What Brockovich and twenty two other state and national organizations are pushing for is legislation that would make it easier for those affected by the water contamination to receive medical care for their health conditions. Many of the veterans and their families who lived on the base used the water for everything from drinking, bathing, and cooking and cannot afford the proper medical treatments.

A number of Hollywood movies and independent documentaries have been filmed the past ten years highlighting the problem of water contamination at U.S. military bases. Most recently, a movie specifically focused on the problem at Camp Lejeune will be shown to members of Congress. With the help of the public awareness brought about by these films and the high caliber representation of Ms. Erin Brockovich, there is hope that these brave men and women who fought for our country and their families that lived with them on base will have access to the treatment that they need to take back their health. It is tragic that there have been some victims who have not lived to see that day. http://commonground.edrnet.com/posts/769286e260

and there's El Toro, another base:
Quote:

The old Marine Corps air base at El Toro is a rotting toxic mess that Irvine politicians and businesses have tried in vain to manipulate into a park and housing community. Marines all over the country and beyond carry the El Toro blueprint in their DNA and the many deadly health issues connected to it are hereditary.

We have been reporting about this for years now, traveling over and over again from Oregon to El Toro to report and document the changes and ridiculous effort to turn an EPA Superfund site into a place for families to live and recreate.

All kinds of toxic chemicals and fuels were dumped into the groundwater here at a steady rate since the base was constructed during World War Two over a lima bean field that had once been the best of its kind in California. Of course that agricultural past ties to an era that predates our knowledge of serious and again deadly health issues, related to DDT which was used in abundance here before any aircraft-related contaminants began going down the drain and into the water tables below.

Today the base has toxic 'plumes' of chemicals like trichloroethylene (TCE) perchloroethylene (PCE) and benzene and the list goes on and on.

There is no name connected to the righting of wrongs in toxic environmental contamination bigger than that of Erin Brockovich. We have contacted her agency in the past trying to gain advocacy for El Toro but in reality, there is such a long list of serious similar problems in America that it is staggering. http://www.salem-news.com/articles/march072011/brockovich-el-toro-tk.p
hp

She can't work on all of them, so she's writing a book:
Quote:

Brockovich has penned a fictional thriller about industrial contamination, "Rock Bottom", intended to educate people on industrial dangers. Brockovich, who has her own firm and consults on many investigations, says she's looking at over 700 sites in the U.S. right now that could be fraught with industrial contamination.
She's also involved in the problems in Duncan, Oklahoma, which Halliburton has finally 'fessed up to and is doing something about. Just this month:
Quote:



Earlier this month, Halliburton Company told residents that around their north site, the ground water was contaminated with perchlorate, and residents are advised to stop drinking and bathing in it immediately.

Folks in this rural neighborhood north of Duncan say almost every home has someone with some sort of thyroid problem.

"It's painful, it hurts," says Tina Womack, a resident in Duncan who has thyroid problem. "I can't have surgery and I don't have insurance, so it's stuck there for a while."

But earlier this month folks found out what may be going on, Halliburton notified residents that until 1991, it was burning rocket fuel at this site, and as a result ground water was contaminated with perchlorate, known to cause thyroid problems.

Now Erin Brockovich, who gained her fame after Julia Roberts portrayed her stories in Hinkley, California, has taken her efforts to Duncan.

Brockovich told nearly 500 people who filled the room that her team is launching a full environmental investigation,

"We have crews out here testing for four days, we are going to probably be here for three or four more days, and then everyone will go back home to analyze the data, the community are getting themselves engaged, so they will start contacting us, we will come back out. So it is a process, but the first thing we want to do is find out whose wells are in fact contaminated," Brockovich says.

Ron Hayden with the Halliburton Company says that they are taking this problem seriously.

"The company is engaged fully, we are trying to get information to respond correctly, respond rapidly," Hayden says.

Halliburton has already started connecting residents to a public water supply, and is supplying all of them with bottled water.

People here aren't only concerned of Perchlorate, they are also concerned about radiation and other chemicals in the ground water. Brochovich and her team say they will be testing for that as well.

Attorneys from New York and a local attorney are now talking to residents about taking legal action. http://www.news9.com/story/15153740/erin-brockovich-attends-meeting-in
-duncan-to-discuss-contaminated-water-wells

Re Halliburton, my first thought was "we shall see..."

But she's on busy babe, obviously she found her calling in life (can you tell I'm a big fan?). She's involved in multiple campaigns at once, probably getting rich (or not), and deserves in my opinion all kinds of gold medals!

By the way, Hinkley is back in trouble again, and now that the money they got from PG&E is long spent, the Board of Supes there approved another polluter ( http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/01/in-the-erin-brockovich-tow
n-a-real-life-sequel-looms
/) Sequel, anyone? No, wouldn't make money, the public loses interest too quickly.

Wasn't it Raptor who was bragging that we have clean water to drink, etc.?


Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off



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Tuesday, August 2, 2011 9:47 AM

BYTEMITE


No, wasn't Erin Brockovich, but yes, the picture you're painting is correct. Across the country you will find pretty much the exact same cocktail of chemicals in the water around these bases, and the Department of Defense does not have to meet any federal standards of environmental safety or clean up.

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