Balanced budget amendment(s) by NewOldBrownCoat

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Balanced budget amendment(s)

POSTED BY: NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 5, 2023 17:38
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Monday, August 1, 2011 7:15 AM

found this over on SLATE, an analysis of two B B A proposals, one from 1995 that Dems supported, and one from last month, that R's and TPers were favoring. Interesting differences, interesting commentary.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/07/11/all_balanced_budget_amend
ments_are_not_created_equal.html

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Monday, August 1, 2011 7:19 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

I see the whole thing as political theater. Even if a proposal passed the Congress, when it got to the states, they'd say "You want to cut funding how much, and expect state governments to pay for the seervices you'll no longer provide? No way in hell!".

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, August 1, 2011 7:35 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

A federal balanced budget amendment would hurt this country. Economist will tell you that federal spending levels should be counter cyclic. That is spend less when the economy is strong and revenues are up, and spend more when the economy is weak and revenues are down. I know that sounds counter intuitive but the thinking is that reducing spending when things are good helps cool the economy and prevents bubbles. (Along with regulations) Then spending when the things are down helps support the down economy.

You also have issues like war and natural disasters that can cost huge amounts of money that are not budgeted for.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, August 1, 2011 8:08 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
A federal balanced budget amendment would hurt this country. Economist will tell you that federal spending levels should be counter cyclic. That is spend less when the economy is strong and revenues are up, and spend more when the economy is weak and revenues are down. I know that sounds counter intuitive but the thinking is that reducing spending when things are good helps cool the economy and prevents bubbles. (Along with regulations) Then spending when the things are down helps support the down economy.

You also have issues like war and natural disasters that can cost huge amounts of money that are not budgeted for.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

I pretty much agree with you, and in fact, don't support either version. I was interested in seeing the text of both proposals, and seeing where the differences are, interpreting what the changes mean.
The newest version really mandates shrinking government: no other solution will resolve its requirement to balance the budget with the obstacles it places in the path of raising revenue.
And you're right: balancing the budget is an intuitively correct idea, but economic theory is counter- intuitive: that doesn't make it wrong, just harder to see and understand how it must work, and what we must to to improve the situation.

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Monday, August 1, 2011 8:33 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Congrats, we are the proud owners of the new Presidential Dictatorship.

Quote:
The Super Congress amounts to an institutionalization of the gang structure that exists informally in the Senate, where a small number of lawmakers write legislation behind closed doors and then announce it to the public। Legislation written by the Super Congress would be extremely difficult for individual members of Congress to stop.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/25/super-congress-debt_n_909018.
html?1311626737
http://www.infowars.com/super-congress-an-institutionalization-of-gang
-structure/

The Ceremonial Congress can now go on recess while the Shadow Govt handles business as usual.

Quote:
Middle classes to be hit by tax increase by the back door: Obama and Boehner face furious backlash from their own parties. Deal slammed a 'sugar-coated Satan sandwich' by Congress.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020959/US-debt-ceiling-crisis
-Obama-Boehner-face-backlash-fudged-minute-deal.html

After Hours party at Bohemian Grove. Bring your Birthday Suit.

The foreign "Federal" Reserve Bank shall continue to countereit all money and keep all income taxes.

The Six Wars shall continue.

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Monday, August 1, 2011 8:55 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Really, Inforwars and The Daily Mail. Let me laugh a little harder.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, August 1, 2011 11:45 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Nick, it stops being funny when you realize that those crazy bastards are overall more accurate (once you discard the obvious bullshit) than the mainstream media-propaganda engines, and most breaking stories regarding political chicanery and corruption are actually broken by "the lunatic fringe" and only reluctantly, if at all, picked up by main media once the evidence is undeniable.

Case in point, Truthout's followup on the Ohio MTM vote shafting back in 2004, with the actual documents - it's pretty fucking damning, but you won't see a peep of it from the mainstream, nope.
http://www.truth-out.org/new-court-filing-reveals-how-2004-ohio-presid
ential-election-was-hacked/1311603015

Remember also, that while the mainstream was screaming WMD! WMD! and flower throwing iraqis and home by xmas...
That the so-called crazies were calling BULLSHIT!, saying quagmire, and predicting in chapter and verse detail the disaster that did unfold.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheCuckoolanderWasRight

That's when it stops bein funny, and starts being...
Kinda scary.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Monday, August 1, 2011 12:00 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Excellent, NewOld; the differences between the two BBAs are scary, to say the least. And I like how they snuck health care in. By hook or by crook...

Quote:
I see the whole thing as political theater. Even if a proposal passed the Congress, when it got to the states, they'd say "You want to cut funding how much, and expect state governments to pay for the seervices you'll no longer provide? No way in hell!".

Pivotal point, Geezer; right on.

Nick, it's great to have you here! Eloquent and right on point as usual. Ironically, I wish you WERE a Republican; we desperately need someone as reasoned as you on the other side to have decent debates. More and more, however, I'm doubting that there IS such a person...sadly. As to what PN puts up, I've been told he gets paid when anyone goes to any of the links he posts--just so's you know. Laugh harder, while you're at it, but don't GO to the links! I usually just scroll past him; makes for a sore scrolling finger, but less time lost searching forever for any valid points!

Frem, while I agree with you to a point, please know it wasn't just the kooks saying "Bullshit!" It was an awful lot of us, just not enough of us to be heard, and Infowars, etc., defeat themselves with so much absurd crap that it's not surprising nobody but the other kooks pays them any attention.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, August 1, 2011 1:03 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Nick, it stops being funny when you realize that those crazy bastards are overall more accurate (once you discard the obvious bullshit) than the mainstream media-propaganda engines, and most breaking stories regarding political chicanery and corruption are actually broken by "the lunatic fringe" and only reluctantly, if at all, picked up by main media once the evidence is undeniable.

I don't know about overall, but ever a broken clock is right twice a day.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, August 1, 2011 1:05 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I wish you WERE a Republican; we desperately need someone as reasoned as you on the other side to have decent debates.

I could pretend to be one, I enjoy playing devil's advocate.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Monday, August 1, 2011 1:33 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:

You also have issues like war and natural disasters that can cost huge amounts of money that are not budgeted for.

Exactly. How much would a balanced budget amendment have helped on September 12th, 2001?

How much help would it have been after Katrina?

What would you say if a balanced budget meant no federal help for Tuscaloosa? or Joplin, MO? Or fire-ravaged Texas?

What if it meant there was no federal response to the Gulf oil spill?

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Monday, August 1, 2011 1:34 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

No, I wouldn't want you to do that; you ARE too eloquent by half and I already like you too much (and we'd know you're faking it!). But if you know of any, tell 'em to drop by. I for one would welcome them with open arms!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

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Monday, August 1, 2011 1:38 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I wish you WERE a Republican; we desperately need someone as reasoned as you on the other side to have decent debates.

I could pretend to be one, I enjoy playing devil's advocate.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

You'd have to get a lobotomy first. It's the law.

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Monday, August 1, 2011 2:19 PM

DREAMTROVE

I'm finding myself somewhat in agreement with the crazy man.

To the main header, one small correction: 51 republicans and 14 democrats actually voted for the 1995 balanced budget amendment. Six democrats who supported the measure backed out of voting for it at the last minute, leaving it one vote shy. Can't help but feel they were paid off.

As for the tea party bill, generally speaking, I like the changes, thouhgh it would be probably more realistic to say 25% than 18%, the intent to stave off keynesian socialism is well founded. I can't find a reason one would support an opponent of this bill.

Environmentally, I've been appalled by the tea party in office because they seem to be for sale, but here, they appear not to be. I can only think that there is already a split in the tea party, since all 60 support almost nothing together.

Big oil of course gets tremendous subsidies, and would be in favor of increased govt. spending, as long as the rest of us pay for it. I can't think of any major corporate interest that would favor a balanced budget.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Tuesday, September 5, 2023 5:38 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Biden boasts about cutting federal budget deficit — as it soars

https://nypost.com/2023/09/04/biden-boasts-about-cutting-deficit-as-it
-soars/

Nikki Haley Burned Trump and Her Fellow Republicans for Blowing Up the Debt. She's Right.
https://news.yahoo.com/nikki-haley-burned-trump-her-023047660.html
"Donald Trump added $8 trillion to our debt," Haley said

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