Tea party less popular than atheists and Muslims by SignyM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yeah, who'd-a thunk it? I thought they were all non-religious, multi-racial Independents! Not liking them as much as atheists and Muslims is...uh, racist? Or something like that...

Here's some more from the same:

Quote:
But in fact the Tea Party is increasingly swimming against the tide of public opinion: among most Americans, even before the furor over the debt limit, its brand was becoming toxic. To embrace the Tea Party carries great political risk for Republicans, but perhaps not for the reason you might think.

Polls show that disapproval of the Tea Party is climbing. In April 2010, a New York Times/CBS News survey found that 18 percent of Americans had an unfavorable opinion of it, 21 percent had a favorable opinion and 46 percent had not heard enough. Now, 14 months later, Tea Party supporters have slipped to 20 percent, while their opponents have more than doubled, to 40 percent.

Of course, politicians of all stripes are not faring well among the public these days. But in data we have recently collected, the Tea Party ranks lower than any of the 23 other groups we asked about — lower than both Republicans and Democrats. It is even less popular than much maligned groups like “atheists” and “Muslims.” Interestingly, one group that approaches it in unpopularity is the Christian Right.

The strange thing is that over the last five years, Americans have moved in an economically conservative direction: they are more likely to favor smaller government, to oppose redistribution of income and to favor private charities over government to aid the poor. While none of these opinions are held by a majority of Americans, the trends would seem to favor the Tea Party. So why are its negatives so high? To find out, we need to examine what kinds of people actually support it.

Beginning in 2006 we interviewed a representative sample of 3,000 Americans as part of our continuing research into national political attitudes, and we returned to interview many of the same people again this summer. As a result, we can look at what people told us, long before there was a Tea Party, to predict who would become a Tea Party supporter five years later. We can also account for multiple influences simultaneously — isolating the impact of one factor while holding others constant.

What’s more, contrary to some accounts, the Tea Party is not a creature of the Great Recession. Many Americans have suffered in the last four years, but they are no more likely than anyone else to support the Tea Party. And while the public image of the Tea Party focuses on a desire to shrink government, concern over big government is hardly the only or even the most important predictor of Tea Party support among voters.

So what do Tea Partiers have in common? They are overwhelmingly white, but even compared to other white Republicans, they had a low regard for immigrants and blacks long before Barack Obama was president, and they still do.

More important, they were disproportionately social conservatives in 2006 — opposing abortion, for example — and still are today. Next to being a Republican, the strongest predictor of being a Tea Party supporter today was a desire, back in 2006, to see religion play a prominent role in politics. And Tea Partiers continue to hold these views: they seek “deeply religious” elected officials, approve of religious leaders’ engaging in politics and want religion brought into political debates. The Tea Party’s generals may say their overriding concern is a smaller government, but not their rank and file, who are more concerned about putting God in government.

This inclination among the Tea Party faithful to mix religion and politics explains their support for Representative Michele Bachmann of Minnesota and Gov. Rick Perry of Texas. Their appeal to Tea Partiers lies less in what they say about the budget or taxes, and more in their overt use of religious language and imagery, including Mrs. Bachmann’s lengthy prayers at campaign stops and Mr. Perry’s prayer rally in Houston.

Yet it is precisely this infusion of religion into politics that most Americans increasingly oppose. While over the last five years Americans have become slightly more conservative economically, they have swung even further in opposition to mingling religion and politics. It thus makes sense that the Tea Party ranks alongside the Christian Right in unpopularity.

On everything but the size of government, Tea Party supporters are increasingly out of step with most Americans, even many Republicans. Indeed, at the opposite end of the ideological spectrum, today’s Tea Party parallels the anti-Vietnam War movement which rallied behind George S. McGovern in 1972. The McGovernite activists brought energy, but also stridency, to the Democratic Party — repelling moderate voters and damaging the Democratic brand for a generation. By embracing the Tea Party, Republicans risk repeating history. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/17/opinion/crashing-the-tea-party.html]

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:05 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Yeah, and people wonder why I hate them bloodythirsty crusader type dominionist fucks...
Well when they wanna take over the government, install their own version of shariah law and burn people like me at the stake, hating them is self defense, you think about it.

Oh, and this... just, this, heheheh, will amuse the hell out of you, literally!

Not long ago I hadda change and update voter reg info cause of some changes and minor errors, since I don't wanna hand the fucking GOP some reason to challenge or discard my vote, even if it makes it through their "electronic advantage" in the first place, and given that the gig had run its course and served its purpose, I had changed it from EOP (Evil Overlord Party) back to Anarchist.
And either someone down at sec state (unlikely this) has a sense of humor...
Or was having a really bad spellcheck, damn-you-autocorrect day.

So I was going through the mail inbox after work last night/this morning and my new stuff is in there...
And the other two people in the office thought I'd finally lost it, I mean, I LITERALLY fell out of the chair laughing.
Apparently I now a member of the Antichrist Party.

I am SOOOOOOooo *NOT* correcting that.
*laughing, still*

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 20, 2011 11:07 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

That is hilarious.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 20, 2011 12:38 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Frem: I'm in.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 20, 2011 1:21 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

But it is interesting how those less-popular-than-(choose your demographic) Tea Partiers were able to get enough legislators elected to derail/define(your pick) the debt ceiling and budget processes. Say what you will about their motives and goals, but they've been able to use the democratic process pretty effectively to support those motives and reach those goals.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 20, 2011 6:52 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

My prediction: b/c everyone else will be deemed unsuitable, Perry will get the nomination, Rove as kingmaker with his sidekick Dubya (Dubya who? ooohhhhh, that guy ...) will be shut out, and the Koch brothers with their extremely local brand of republicanism (to hell with the world, the economy and the country - I got MINE) will be the power behind the candidate.

Oh, and rather than have a moment of clarifying sanity, republicans will vote for Perry b/c, after driving partisanship into the stratosphere, a democratic win will be too horrible to allow.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 20, 2011 8:30 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

my breakdown

Gingrich - has been
Bachmann - not enuf national appeal
Romney - nobody in the party likes him
Paul - couldn't get a nympho excited
Palin - (if she declares) a flake and a quitter

Perry - Texas governor

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, August 20, 2011 10:03 PM

DMAANLILEILTT

I'm not even American and I want to join!

"I really am ruggedly handsome, aren't I?"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 21, 2011 4:34 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Say Frem, did you hear about the dyslexic satanist? He sold his soul to Santa!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 21, 2011 4:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Yes. Soooo unpopular, they helped the GOP sweep into power in 2010.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 21, 2011 4:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

As usual, rappy is late to the party with old information.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 21, 2011 5:02 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Sig: good one!
Frem: Where do I join? And you get the prize for the first guffaw of the morning...thank GAWD I was putting my V8 back down, or I'd have "V8 Keyboard"!

Rap/Geezer: Yeah, you can fool some of the people most of the time, and most of the people some of the time...you know how it goes. Now that the people conned into believing they really MEANT it about jobs are seeing who they REALLY are, those ol' negative numbers is climbin', ain't they? (Or as my dogs tell me when I say "but I just FED YOU!": "That was then, this is NOW!"

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 21, 2011 5:09 AM

HKCAVALIER

Aw, c'mon, my right-wing buds--no one is disputing that the TP WAS popular, only that they've quite obviously and thoroughly worn out their welcome. The right doesn't seem to be able to produce anything in the last 5 or 6 years that doesn't become an embarrassment within a few months. Doesn't seem to slow 'em down any, though.

It's not a flaw, it's a feature!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 21, 2011 5:58 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Rap/Geezer: Yeah, you can fool some of the people most of the time, and most of the people some of the time...you know how it goes. Now that the people conned into believing they really MEANT it about jobs are seeing who they REALLY are, those ol' negative numbers is climbin', ain't they?

But you could just as easily say the same thing about the Obama administration. Sort'a like this: "Now that the people conned into believing they really MEANT it about jobs, Gitmo, Single-payer, less war, and all that 'change' stuff are seeing who they REALLY are, those ol' negative numbers is climbin', ain't they?"

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administ
ration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

Looks like we all got conned a bit, don't it?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 21, 2011 6:47 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Of COURSE we all got conned! We always do. Politicians are politicians, and the Dems are paying the price of not making good their promises just as the Reps are. The difference is, the Tea Party/Republicans this past year have made a very clear practice of DOING THINGS that have nothing to do with jobs, but are instead directed at social issues which are affecting people negatively, as well as saying things which are so over the top and indicating they'd do MORE things that will affect individuals negatively if they get the chance.

Certainly Obama and the Dems have failed us, nobody here is saying otherwise. But again, the ONLY issue most Republicans/Tea Partiers ran on was "jobs", and they have done nothing at all about jobs; they have worked hard at minimizing access to abortion; they have gone after the unions, school teachers, government employees and others which COST jobs; they have proposed doing away with MediCare and even SSI--NONE of these things are things they promised to do. Naturally people feel conned; when they thought these people were going to get into power and help them, instead they're finding out they're being HARMED, and face the probability of being further harmed.

It's not a matter of just "bad numbers", nobody has said the left is being shown to be less popular than Atheists or Muslims, two groups which usually get very bad numbers. There IS a difference; it's real, it's visible, and it matters.

ETA: Per the article you posted first,

Quote:
the gap between Americans who want to govern themselves and politicians who want to rule over them may be as big today as the gap between the colonies and England during the 18th century....the American people don't want to be governed from the left, the right, or the center

Note in those two statements he's speaking about BOTH PARTIES, not just the Democrats. The article says nothing about the approval rating of Republicans, only Obama.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:37 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
The difference is, the Tea Party/Republicans this past year have made a very clear practice of DOING THINGS that have nothing to do with jobs, but are instead directed at social issues which are affecting people negatively, as well as saying things which are so over the top and indicating they'd do MORE things that will affect individuals negatively if they get the chance.

But you just don't see it the way a Tea Party supporter does.

The Tea Party Republicans are doing exactly what their base, which is largely Social Conservatives and Evangelicals, want them to do. These folks don't see attacks on reproductive rights or gay rights as "...affecting people negatively." they see it as 'protecting moral values'. As much as you or I may disagree with their concept of 'moral values', they aren't being fooled, because they're getting what they want most. I'd guess that for these people jobs aren't nearly as important as 'moral' issues.

You keep saying that the only thing the Republicans/Tea Partiers ran on was jobs. If so, you were sure watching a different election than I was. The Tea Party and like-minded Republicans around here were out front on the 'moral' issues that energize their Evangelical base. Their second issue was to push for smaller, less-expensive, government. This to keep the small-government, fiscal conservative, elements of the Republican base and Tea Party on board. They're keeping this part of their base happy with attacks on public service unions and public programs in general.

Jobs, for both parties, is a nice thing to talk about in a campaign, but it's a problem a lot less amenible to solution by legislation than "moral" issues or cutting public employee union benefits or un-popular (to conservatives)government expenses. The Tea Party and hangers-on are going for this low-hanging legislative fruit. Whether they, or the Democrats, ever get around to the heavy lifting of effective jobs creation remains to be seen.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 21, 2011 10:58 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"The Tea Party Republicans are doing exactly what their base, which is largely Social Conservatives and Evangelicals, want them to do."

There appear to be two TPs - the one founded by Ron Paul which was relatively silent on non-economic non-government issues (and which seems to not be keeping its momentum), and the OTHER one which is an amalgam of corporate greed (Koch), the religious self-righteous who are anti-anything other than x-tianity anti-choice and anti-gay, racists, birthers, anti-government Civil War holdouts (who seem to want a return of the Old South and slavery or at least a white-male-overclass), right-wing-nuts and all the usual sundry assorted critters.

The national and various state TPers did campaign on jobs and it's why they were voted in. Which is why when they seemed to focus exclusively on everything NOT related to jobs - especially their union-busting agenda which is extremely unpopular - they lost their luster.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 21, 2011 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
But it is interesting how those less-popular-than-(choose your demographic) Tea Partiers were able to get enough legislators elected to derail/define(your pick) the debt ceiling and budget processes. Say what you will about their motives and goals, but they've been able to use the democratic process pretty effectively to support those motives and reach those goals.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Well, you also have to bear in mind that as low an opinion as Americans allegedly have about "socialists" and "Muslims", they still elected one President, eh? I'd say they've been able to use the democratic process even more effectively.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 21, 2011 1:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yes. Soooo unpopular, they helped the GOP sweep into power in 2010.

Huh. That's odd - just a couple weeks ago, you were arguing that the Tea Party was only a minority presence in the party, and that the GOP had very little power in, as you said, less than a third of the government. One house.

Do now you think the GOP "swept into power"?

Interesting analysis. Next time my home team loses two games out of three, I'll be sure and note how they "swept" the competition.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, August 21, 2011 1:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Aw, c'mon, my right-wing buds--no one is disputing that the TP WAS popular, only that they've quite obviously and thoroughly worn out their welcome. The right doesn't seem to be able to produce anything in the last 5 or 6 years that doesn't become an embarrassment within a few months. Doesn't seem to slow 'em down any, though.

It's not a flaw, it's a feature!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

And the scary part is, once it's become an embarrassment, their standard tactic is to yell "They got weak, and they didn't go FAR ENOUGH!" and then come up with some new ever-more-cranked-to-the-right splinter group of their splinter group.

The conservative party platform's campaign planks are now so splintered that they're useless as anything to stand on, and are good only for kindling. Makes me wonder who's going to strike the match.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 2:48 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
There appear to be two TPs - the one founded by Ron Paul which was relatively silent on non-economic non-government issues (and which seems to not be keeping its momentum), and the OTHER one which is an amalgam of corporate greed (Koch), the religious self-righteous who are anti-anything other than x-tianity anti-choice and anti-gay, racists, birthers, anti-government Civil War holdouts (who seem to want a return of the Old South and slavery or at least a white-male-overclass), right-wing-nuts and all the usual sundry assorted critters.

Yep. the Tea Party name got co-opted by the social conservatives/evangelicals early on, leaving the fiscal conservatives and libertarians out in the cold...again.

Quote:
The national and various state TPers did campaign on jobs and it's why they were voted in. Which is why when they seemed to focus exclusively on everything NOT related to jobs - especially their union-busting agenda which is extremely unpopular - they lost their luster.

Democrats keep insisting that the Tea Party, or the Republicans in general, ran heavily on a jobs platform in 2010, but about the only place I can find that, on the web at least, is in the writings of Democrats.

Wikipedia doesn't mention jobs creation as a Tea Party goal at all in its article on them. The Contract From America, the general Tea Party platform, only mentions jobs once, in passing:

"8. Pass an ‘All-of-the-Above” Energy Policy
Authorize the exploration of proven energy reserves to reduce our dependence on foreign energy sources from unstable countries and reduce regulatory barriers to all other forms of energy creation, lowering prices and creating competition and jobs."

and unemployment once in the same way:

"2. Reject Cap & Trade
Stop costly new regulations that would increase unemployment, raise consumer prices, and weaken the nation’s global competitiveness with virtually no impact on global temperatures."

Most State Republican platforms from 2010 I can find have the word "JOBS" in them, but usually relating to stopping outsourcing, or a general "it'd be nice to create more jobs." way.

On the other hand, they pretty much all have a "family values" section that's the code for anti-gay/anti-abortion, and a lot on reducing government size and cost.

If you have any examples of most, or many, Republicans running mostly on a jobs creation platform I'd be happy to look it over, but I can't find any.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 6:33 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I don't have time right now to fully answer so I'll give you one example - Scott Walker

“Wisconsin voters continue to move away from the Tom Barrett-Jim Doyle agenda of big taxes and big spending and towards Scott Walker and his plan to create 250,000 jobs in his first term.”

From his campaign:
1. Don’t spend more than you have.
2. Smaller government is better government.
3. People create jobs, not government.

If you look across the various states you will see the same theme played out, like Rick Scott (Florida), Paul LePage (Maine), John Kasich (Ohio), and others. The supposition the TP has been flogging is that big government/ regulation kills jobs it doesn't create them, not that big government kills - oh I don't know - freedoms.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 6:38 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Now it's my turn to ask "What were you watching?" The GOP--Republicans and Tea Partiers alike--made jobs their rallying cry for 2010, and it won for them.

Quote:
2010 Tea Party Candidates Elected On Jobs - Give Us 916 Anti-Abortion Bills. Jobs! Jobs! Jobs! That was the rallying call for the Tea Party movement candidates in their mid-term push to take over... http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-national/2010-tea-party-candidates-
elected-on-jobs-givesus-916-anti-abortion-bills promising to bring jobs to Wisconsin when elected Governor, Scott Walker has seen 19 plants close and 2,207 workers get laid off. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/09/1004929/-Scott-Walker%e2%80%9
9s-Radical-Agenda-Has-Cost-Wisconsin-More-Than-2,000-Jobs-Already the 2010 elections were supposed to be all about jobs and the economy .. but after those elections what kind of legislation do we actually get? Abortions, gay marriage, English as an official language, banning Sharia Law, stripping union rights .. all this stuff is not about jobs and the economy, but it is about capitalizing on how afraid people are in a bad economy ... http://soonerblue2.wordpress.com/2011/07/11/tea-party-promised-jobs-bu
t-all-we-got-was-this-lousy-culture-war/] Republican Tea Party-types elected last November promised us jobs, via smaller government. http://blogs.fayobserver.com/myronpitts/July-2011/Tea-Party%e2%80%99s-
Economic-Endgame--Is-There-Anything-to] Where are the Jobs, Jobs, JOBS the House Tea Party/Republican candidates Promised? http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110323192028AAF80MX] The Republicans Promised Jobs During The Midterms http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/11/4/917515/-The-Republicans-Promis
ed-Jobs-During-The-Midterms

Quote:
Where are all the jobs the Republicans promised ? http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/where-are-all-the-jobs-the-repub
licans-promised/question-1498953/] Republicans Promised Job Creation. When Republicans took control last year, they promised to creat jobs. This was their primary platform. http://eleftheria64.wordpress.com/2011/07/22/republicans-promised-job-
creation-just-not-in-america/

Quote:
Opposition Republicans promised Thursday that if they win the congressional midterm elections in November they will move to cut taxes, roll back government spending and create jobs. http://www.voanews.com/english/news/usa/Republicans-Promise-To-Cut-Tax
es-And-Spending-VOA-103639799.html

Quote:
When Republicans Promised Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!, Did you know they meant Jobs Lying to Women about Abortion? http://www.grantmoneyadvisor.com/when-republicans-promised-jobs-jobs-j
obs-did-you-know-they-meant-jobs-lying-to-women-about-abortion-t93942.html] So, where are the jobs Republicans promised? http://www.thehighlandsun.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=87
&ArticleID=7008] Where are the jobs Republicans promised? http://www.topix.com/forum/albuquerque/T0F2PND6F0894JCSM] GOP promised jobs, but delivers for backers. House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) -- whose mantra during the 2010 election was "Where are the jobs?" -- when asked about the possibility of federal employees losing theirs responded with a callous: "So be it." Amazing how being in office changes one's perspective. http://www.greenwichtime.com/default/article/Littman-GOP-promised-jobs
-but-delivers-for-1040929.php enough for you? The Tea Party and the GOP (Republicans) made "Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!" their rallying cry, and it won them the 2010 big. They then proceeded to pass bills on everything BUT jobs, mostly on social issues. The American people were conned by believing them, and they're starting to open their eyes now.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 7:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
But it is interesting how those less-popular-than-(choose your demographic) Tea Partiers were able to get enough legislators elected to derail/define(your pick) the debt ceiling and budget processes. Say what you will about their motives and goals, but they've been able to use the democratic process pretty effectively to support those motives and reach those goals.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

You seem to have trouble,with chronology.

Those low numbers are in large part a direct result of the actions those folks took in office.

But of course you'd want to skip past pesky details like that.

Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 7:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Yes. Soooo unpopular, they helped the GOP sweep into power in 2010.

Huh. That's odd - just a couple weeks ago, you were arguing that the Tea Party was only a minority presence in the party, and that the GOP had very little power in, as you said, less than a third of the government. One house.

Do now you think the GOP "swept into power"?

Interesting analysis. Next time my home team loses two games out of three, I'll be sure and note how they "swept" the competition.

Cognitive dissonance in action.

Few are as skilled at self-delusion as Rappy.

Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 7:15 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Now it's my turn to ask "What were you watching?"

(...Then there's a lot of quotes from Democrats/liberals...)

The Tea Party and the GOP (Republicans) made "Jobs! Jobs! Jobs!" their rallying cry, and it won them the 2010 big.

As I noted in a response above, this is all Democrats/liberals saying "Republicans promised jobs!!!".

How about providing an actual Republican platform or position paper that shows them making jobs their rallying cry?

The only thing I could find, googling 'republicans promise jobs' (that wasn't a Democrat complaining 'Why didn't Republicans deliver on their promise on jobs?") was this, from the Christian Science Monitor, in the run-up to the 2010 elections.

Quote:
Republicans in Congress are urging two simple steps they say will help put Americans back to work: Freeze all tax rates at current levels and reduce federal spending.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2010/0921/Republicans-two-point-
plan-to-create-jobs-Can-it-work

The one other document about jobs I cound find, from 2009, requires cooperation from the Democrats and Pres. Obama that's not likely to occur.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24956204/GOP-No-Cost-Jobs-Letter-and-Plan-Pr
esented-to-President-Obama

It requests that the Administration:

Quote:
Halt Any Proposed Rule or Regulation Expected to Have an Economic Cost, Result in Job Loss, or Have a Disparate Impact on Small Businesses;

Eliminate Job Killing Federal Tax Increases;

Demonstrate a Commitment to Lowering the Deficit Now Without Raising Taxes By Freezing Domestic Discretionary Spending at Last Year’s Level;

Assist Community Banks and Small Businesses with the Downturn in the Commercial Real Estate Market.

None of this is likely to get past a Democratic Senate and possible Presidential Veto.

I also can't find any indication that a Republican candidate in 2010 actually ran on or mentioned this proposal.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 7:36 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

lol

Sure it is.

I'm concerned about the liberal/progressives feelings on this subject and their needs.

So, yes. I'm SURE this: "Tea party less popular than atheists and Muslims" is true.

Relax. Calm down. No need to fear. Your ideologies are sage, and safe.

Yep. If it makes you feel better to believe this, then by all means... continue.

Shhhh. The big bad Tea Party is just soooo unpopular. Noone is paying attention. Shhh... go back to sleep.

I know its scary, but here it is... written by someone who really knows America... you are safe little ones... the big bad scary Tea Party is just so un-popular that noone will EVER listen...

So shhh... quiet down... its ok... you can sleep safe and sound.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 9:50 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Those low numbers are in large part a direct result of the actions those folks took in office.

But nowhere in the article, or the lead-on article it's based upon, is any indication that Tea Party supporters/social conservatives/evangelicals have weakened in their support since a year ago. Sure, nationally folks who had no opinion may now like the Tea Party less. However, if Democrats, Independents or Republican moderates in areas of strong Tea Party support like the Tea Party less now than a year ago, it's not gonna affect Tea Party Republicans' chances for re-election much. About the only way to find out is to await the 2012 elections.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

I also can't find any indication that a Republican candidate in 2010 actually ran on or mentioned this proposal.

So, really, what the fuck are the good for, other than pushing an antiquated ideology?

Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 11:26 AM

WULFENSTAR

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Storymark...

Shhhh... Its ok, child....shhhh...

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 3:19 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

I posted a promise by Walker DIRECTLY FROM HIS CAMPAIGN to create 250,000 jobs in Wisconsin and you post back and pretend nobody ever campaigned on such a thing?

So, uh, do you lie much?

Oh, BTW, I'm just posting b/c I wanna' see you try and tap-dance your way outa' this one. Otherwise, I really don't give a shit about what you have to say.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 4:51 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I posted a promise by Walker DIRECTLY FROM HIS CAMPAIGN to create 250,000 jobs in Wisconsin and you post back and pretend nobody ever campaigned on such a thing?

No. I said it wasn't THE LEAD ISSUE in their campaigns, not AN issue. It's generally far down the list. Don't forget, Walker also promised:

Quote:
We must restore trust in the Department of Natural Resources by requiring more transparency and accountability while ensuring decisions are based on objective science and the best interests of the taxpayers and license buyers. The DNR works for us, not the other way around. As governor, I will ensure the DNR becomes an ‘opportunity’ agency, giving job creators the opportunity to grow, sportsmen and women the opportunity to be heard and not ignored, and all Wisconsinites the opportunity to enjoy our state’s abundant natural resources.

BTW, has Walker created 250,000 jobs in his first term? Who knows? He's less than a year into his first term.

BTW again. Out of town until Thursday, so don't freak if you don't get an instant response.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 4:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Storymark...

Shhhh... Its ok, child....shhhh...

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

Hey look, everybody! Wulfie, the village idiot, is trying to be clever!

Let's all take a mental picture and hang it on the fridge.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 5:21 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Poor Geezer - somehow, despite the fact that I posted a whole list of the many thing the so-called TP was focusing on, he claimed I said the ONLY thing they campaigned on was jobs. Eh, maybe it's mental decrepitude, or perhaps it's moral decrepitude.

"BTW, has Walker created 250,000 jobs in his first term?"

Well, gosh, if he had bothered to look, which he obviously didn't b/c that might be too honest, he would have found that the answer ...

Partly as a result of Governor Walker’s high-profile pledge to create 250,000 new private sector jobs in Wisconsin, the monthly employment reports have been getting a lot of scrutiny by the media, public officials, and the public.

Between June and July 2011, Wisconsin lost 8,200 jobs. That’s the biggest month-to-month job loss in nearly two years. The drop in private sector employment was even greater (-12,500 jobs), but was mitigated by a suprising increase in public sector employment. The unemployment rate rose from 7.6% in June to 7.8% in July.

Let’s take a longer-term look: The number of jobs in Wisconsin has increased by 22,900 since January 2011. If we assume a 2% annual increase in population, that rate of job growth won’t even keep up with population growth.

The figures go like this
Jan to July Wisconsin added 12,900 private sector jobs.
"State reports a gain of 12,900 private-sector jobs"
In July Wisconsin lost 12,500 private sector jobs.
"Wisconsin lost 12,500 private sector jobs in July"
But somehow the state claims a total of 28,700 private sector jobs gained since the beginning of the year.
"Despite July’s decreases, Wisconsin still has seen a net increase of 28,700 private sector jobs so far this year."

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 5:36 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Niki, I'll put the TEA party candidates,their poll #'s, and their view of how govt should be run up against what Obama has to offer, every day of the week.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 6:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Niki, I'll put the TEA party candidates,their poll #'s, and their view of how govt should be run up against what Obama has to offer, every day of the week.

I'll take that bet. Can you show me one single tea party candidate who has gotten more than 69 million votes in an election?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, August 22, 2011 7:43 PM

CUDA77

Like woman, I am a mystery.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Niki, I'll put the TEA party candidates,their poll #'s, and their view of how govt should be run up against what Obama has to offer, every day of the week.

I'll take that bet. Can you show me one single tea party candidate who has gotten more than 69 million votes in an election?

Ooh, ooh! I can answer this one and save you the trouble of badgering Rappy about it for weeks. The answer is none. Because there is no "Tea Party." They all ran as Republicans. No member of the Tea Party has ever gotten one vote in any election. And they will continue to receive no votes as long as they keep running as Republicans.

Socialist and unashamed about it.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:10 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well, you can deny that Republicans ran on jobs all day if you want, the fact is we heard it over and over again from them.

As to part of their platform, try this:

Quote:
Republicans will advance a multi-pronged plan to support small business and grow good-paying jobs. http://www.gop.com/2008platform/economy.htm that does is show that it's in their platform, so it doesn't prove my point, and I don't know how else I CAN prove my point, given the elections are long over with and most candidates promises would be hard to find. I may give it a try later. But it's hard to know what you consider an "acceptable" cite, given you so easily rejected all those I offered.

AHA! I found one, and it's a goodie. SURELY you'll find John Boehner's OWN WEBSITE acceptable? "...from party mantra to “the single most important question”--check out the video: http://boehner.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=212154

That's as much more time and effort as I'm willing to put into this. If it's not acceptable to you, fine, so be it. The fact remains that "jobs" IS what the Republicans focused on and what got them elected, not abortion, same-sex marriage or the other bills they brought up after being elected.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 23, 2011 9:55 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Regarding your question about Walker creating jobs:

Quote:
The state had a net total of 9,500 new jobs in the month, because a decline in government employment offset some of the gains in the private sector. Nationally, Walker said, 18,000 new jobs were created last month - 57,000 gained in the private sector minus a drop of 39,000 in government payrolls.
.....
Nearly half of Wisconsin's new private-sector jobs were in the tourism, hospitality and food services category.

Jobs in the tourism and hospitality businesses are often temporary positions with low pay and few or no benefits, said Brian Jacobsen, an economist at Wells Fargo Funds Management in Menomonee Falls. More at http://www.jsonline.com/business/125961833.html would have to investigate his claims more carefully to ensure his claim about job creation is accurate, given
Quote:
Walker recently took credit in a widely reported press conference for creating 125 jobs at a state manufacturing plant, even though then-Gov. Jim Doyle announced the same new jobs back in December.

Last week, Walker traveled to Curt Manufacturing near Eau Claire to award a $625,000 transportation grant to the second largest manufacturer of trailer hitches and towing products in the United States.

"This project directly creates 125 new jobs and indirectly creates 129 jobs, million in annual wages right here in Wisconsin," Walker said resulting in $12.6 in a news release. "By providing these funds, we are bringing quality jobs to Wisconsin while improving road access to Curt Manufacturing's expanded facility."

Consider it one more hurdle cleared by the first-term Republican governor in his quest to fulfill his campaign promise of creating 250,000 jobs in four years.

But wait a second.
Didn't Doyle announce the creation of 125 new jobs at the same business late last year?

Indeed he did.

In a Dec. 16 news release, the Department of Commerce announced the Doyle administration was awarding Curt Manufacturing $400,000 in tax credits and $11 million in tax-free bonds under a program created by the federal government's 2009 stimulus package. In addition, state commerce officials said Altoona was receiving a $256,545 grant to upgrade a city road next to the company.

Doyle said the project would create 125 jobs and result in $12.8 million investment to the community.
.....
Does that mean Curt is hiring 250 new people as a result of its expansion project?

"That's unfortunately not accurate," said Jim McKissick, spokesman for the company.

The firm is constructing a 150,000-square-foot warehousing and logistics building next to its existing 165,000-square-foot plant. As a result, Curt has committed to adding 125 positions by 2014.
.....
In the final weeks before leaving office, (Commerce Secretary Paul) Jadin said, Doyle staff members took the unusual step of pumping out a number of press releases on various projects. Jadin noted that the transportation grant for Curt Manufacturing wasn't finalized until this year, when Walker had taken office.

Besides, Jadin said, it's the company's call as to when something is announced publicly.

"Generally, the press releases or press conferences are tied around when the company wants to do something," Jadin said. "Obviously, they want to do it with a governor present. That's probably what occurred here."

Or not.

Company President Curt Tambornino said last week's news conference was initiated by the current governor.

"Walker's office had called and said they wanted to do this final presentation with a press release in front of the media," Tambornino said Friday.

The manufacturing boss said he submitted his applications for state help last summer. (More at http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/noquarter/120582079.html) those articles are from the Pulitzer Prize Winning (2008, 2010, 2011) Milwaukee Wisconsin Journal Sentinel. I hope that's acceptable to you.

By the way, the jobs were created by a transportation grant created in the Obama stimulus program ( http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/04/25/governor-scott-walker
-caught-in-political-plagiarism/2/), something Walker has railed against numerous times.

Along with that, he has replaced union workers with PRISONERS, who don't get paid for their work, in some places. From the Madison Capital Times:
Quote:
While Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker’s (R) law dismantling collective bargaining rights has harmed teachers, nurses, and other civil servants, it’s helping a different group in Wisconsinites — inmates. Prisoners are now taking up jobs that used to be held by unionized workers in some parts of the state.

"Racine County has already begun letting inmates onto the streets of Racine County to do landscaping, painting, and another basic maintenance around the county that was previously done by county workers." More at http://freakoutnation.com/2011/07/11/gov-walker-promised-to-create-250
000-jobs-no-jobs-yet/] The United States added about 20,000 jobs in June according to most analysts. Scott Walker claimed that "almost half of all U.S. job growth occurred in Wisconsin in June". But
Quote:
Minnesota employers added 13,200 jobs in June. That's according to figures released today by the Minnesota Department of Employment and Economic Development (DEED). http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/07/21/june_employmen
t/
So according to those figures, Wisconsin and Minnesota created 2,200 more jobs together than throughout the U.S. How does that figure?

If Scott Walker claims at the end of his term that he DID create 250,000 new jobs, I think we'd better look closely at how his figures were arrived.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 23, 2011 10:55 AM

MALACHITE

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Well, you can deny that Republicans ran on jobs all day if you want, the fact is we heard it over and over again from them.

As to part of their platform, try this:
Quote:
Republicans will advance a multi-pronged plan to support small business and grow good-paying jobs. http://www.gop.com/2008platform/economy.htm that does is show that it's in their platform, so it doesn't prove my point, and I don't know how else I CAN prove my point, given the elections are long over with and most candidates promises would be hard to find. I may give it a try later. But it's hard to know what you consider an "acceptable" cite, given you so easily rejected all those I offered.

AHA! I found one, and it's a goodie. SURELY you'll find John Boehner's OWN WEBSITE acceptable? "...from party mantra to “the single most important question”--check out the video: http://boehner.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=212154

That's as much more time and effort as I'm willing to put into this. If it's not acceptable to you, fine, so be it. The fact remains that "jobs" IS what the Republicans focused on and what got them elected, not abortion, same-sex marriage or the other bills they brought up after being elected.

Hey Niki,
Geezer said, "No. I said it wasn't THE LEAD ISSUE in their campaigns, not AN issue. It's generally far down the list."

Arguing with this kind of statement is a waste of time. How would you ever prove that some issue is "The Lead Issue" for most/all tea partiers? He'll always be able to deflect the statement with what he just said or something like , "Well, it might have been for one particular politician, but not for the Tea Party as a whole". Unless there is some representative "Tea Party Manifesto" that all politicians claiming to be from the Tea Party sign that states, " We hearby swear to uphold the Manifesto which states that the LEAD, most important, numero uno, biggest cheese, giant cajones issue is creating jobs", you will never be able to "prove" it in his mind.

Take heart that the rest of us can see that it was a not insignificant part of their platform though...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 23, 2011 11:22 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Thanx Mala (wheee! It's GREAT to see you again!). But I did prove my point--did you chance to see the video on Boehner's website? Isn't he head of the Republican Congressmen? The words are right there, "Most important issue", and the video just SCREAMS it. Given Geezer said "Tea Party OR Republican" and Boehner represents the Repubs, doesn't he?, I nailed it.

I don't care whether he accepts it or not at this point...I happened across Boehner's website by accident and was tickled that he proved my point once and for all, so I don't need to bother further and it doesn't matter in the slightest how Geezer discounts it.

Quote:
We hearby swear to uphold the Manifesto which states that the LEAD, most important, numero uno, biggest cheese, giant cajones issue is creating jobs

Prize for first giggle of the day (boy, took until 2:30--our time--that's a first!). And oh, gosh, it's so wonderful to see you! THAT's far more interesting to me than whatever Geezer is willing to admit...or not!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 23, 2011 11:32 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Oooo, I was so tickled to see the video and text on Boehner's website, I completely missed the bottom. It was a press release, apparently, from Boehner's OFFICE, and the bottom half says

Quote:
BACKGROUND: REPUBLICANS MAKE “WHERE ARE THE JOBS?” PART OF THE NATIONAL LEXICON

•June 2009: “GOP: ‘Where are the jobs?’ on big fed spending. Republicans concerned about the Obama administration's big spending on economic stimulus, energy and health care are asking, ‘Where are the jobs?’” (Associated Press, 6/27/09)

•July 2009: “In rapid-fire speeches on the House floor Tuesday morning, congressional Republicans attacked the stimulus and sought to tie the jobless rate to the question of Obama’s political judgment, repeating the refrain: ‘Where are the jobs?’” (The Denver Post, 7/22/09)

•October 2009: “Whatever the fate of health care legislation, persistently high unemployment has made ‘Where are the jobs?’ the most potent Republican campaign argument as next year’s midterm elections come into view.” (The New York Times, 10/4/09)

•February 2010: “Republicans, meanwhile, taunted Obama with a familiar refrain: Where are the jobs the president promised in exchange for the billions of dollars already spent?” (Associated Press, 2/6/10)

•May 2010: “Yet the varied focus has left Democrats open to criticism from Republicans, who have adopted ‘where are the jobs?’ as a rallying cry.” (The Hill, 5/5/10)

•July 2010: “With Republicans demanding to know ‘where are the jobs?’ — the refrain adopted by the House Republican leader, Representative John A. Boehner of Ohio…” (The New York Times, 7/8/10)

•August 2010: “Republicans have made "where are the jobs?" their mantra…” (AFP, 8/7/10)

•September 2010: “Economically, the GOP's Pledge to America, released Thursday, is aimed at small businesses… ‘Where are the jobs?’ – a theme in GOP campaign stump speeches – is the subtext of the new governing agenda.” (The Christian Science Monitor, 9/23/10)

•October 2010: “And Boehner has worked relentlessly to keep angry US voters focused on the sour US economy and unemployment, demanding to know ‘where are the jobs?’ and urging cuts in government spending to rein in galloping US debt.” (AFP, 10/14/10)

Oooo, that's satisfying. And the end of it, for me!

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 23, 2011 12:14 PM

So, going off prior behavior - now that the evidence has been posted, I think we can expect Geezer to never appear in this thread again.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, August 23, 2011 12:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Cuda77:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Niki, I'll put the TEA party candidates,their poll #'s, and their view of how govt should be run up against what Obama has to offer, every day of the week.

I'll take that bet. Can you show me one single tea party candidate who has gotten more than 69 million votes in an election?

Ooh, ooh! I can answer this one and save you the trouble of badgering Rappy about it for weeks. The answer is none. Because there is no "Tea Party." They all ran as Republicans. No member of the Tea Party has ever gotten one vote in any election. And they will continue to receive no votes as long as they keep running as Republicans.

Very true. I'll still put Obama's numbers up against any of the so-called tea party candidates. In REAL poll numbers - the ones that count, the votes actually cast at the polls! - Obama has quite a proven track record. His last election, he got more than 69 million votes, a number which no tea party candidate has ever come close to. And I have significant doubts that any of them ever will get close to that amount.

Now, Rappy says he'll put them up against Obama every day of the week, but I'm guessing he won't include Election Day.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:36 AM

MALACHITE

Niki,
Thanks for the warm welcome back! Anyways, I'm predicting Geezer's response is going to be that Boehner doesn't truly represent Tea Pary interests, so he doesn't count.

But wouldn't it be refreshing if someone, when presented with a decent amount of evidence, might say, "You know what? I think you've changed my opinion about this topic. Thanks for taking the time to educate me about this"? I probably shouldn't hold my breath...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 24, 2011 5:52 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I've seen a couple of people say that, in essence, and I've changed my opinion on a couple of things--and admitted my position was wrong, even if I didn't change my mind on the basics. I and others have DEFINITELY thanked people for educating us on some things, however, I know.

But yes, it's a rare and wonderful thing and I never hold my breath--especially not here! For me, it would be quite sufficient if when evidence is presented, we could even get "you have a point there". But I know even THAT would be too much to hope for.

And you're probably right; his "out" will be that Boehner isn't a Tea Partier...even tho' he did write, quite clearly, that I should point to any Tea Partier OR Republican...

I should really stop spending so much time trying to back up my positions with facts and figures and stuff. It's only a waste of time, and "they" almost never do. I should just make flat statements like Rap and Wulf do, then snark at people who ask for cites. Imagine the amount of time it would save!

Problem is, I was in the NFL (not THAT one, the National Forensic League) in high school, and learned to debate by the rules. Hard habit to break, that, but I'm considering it...

Quote:
both built more concentration camps inside the US than Nazis built in Germany

jeezus...

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:23 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Actually in most cases I'd settle for Hmmm, I gotta think about that.. - this does happen occasionally, and in our various discussions about some things despite the smoke and fire I *DO* think folks learn a lot more about topics they haven't fully investigated - there was a truly epic thread about the collision of the right to travel versus a protest blocking the road that really dug deep into the issue of appropriate response when rights collide, so it's not all just pissing in the wind, although at times it might feel that way, sure.

Re: Concentration camps - the only organization I'd ever call THAT one down upon would be WWASPS, which is essentially what those places *were*, and the worst of em weren't based state-side, so it's empty rhetoric, as usual.

Speakin of empty rhetoric and partisanship...
Does my apparently new party affiliation mean virgins are tax deductable ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 24, 2011 1:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Quote:
both built more concentration camps inside the US than Nazis built in Germany
jeezus...

Depends how you define "concentration camp", of course. We do have more prisons, more "for-profit" prisons, more prison labor, and both a larger total number of people in prison and a larger percentage of our population in prison than Nazi Germany did. We tend to not call them "concentration camps" nowadays, because there seems to be a negative connotation to those words (go figure...).

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, August 24, 2011 1:46 PM