Cash for Clunkers by AnthonyT

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Cash for Clunkers

POSTED BY: ANTHONYT
UPDATED: Sunday, October 2, 2011 13:29
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VIEWED: 3130
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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 1:20 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

I was never for bailing out the car companies (duh), and will never buy a vehicle from one that took the money.

Will you take the same pledge about the banks that took TARP money? Will you refuse to ever deal with any bank that got bailout money in any way?

And when you say you'll never buy from ANY car company that took that money, do you even know which companies those are?

Start with GM, Chrysler, and Ford (who took a government-secured line of credit in the form of a bridge loan), then go to ALL their subsidiary companies - Volvo, Saab, Land Rover, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Mazda, Suzuki, Subaru, Fiat, Daewoo, etc., and pretty soon you'll find that you can't buy a car because of your strict pledge. But good luck with that.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 1:25 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

So in fact any stimulus of any kind is being viewed as a negative here, because it interferes with the Free Market.

This would make it a real challenge for the Democratic party to craft any kind of acceptable stimulus package, I wager.

--Anthony

Anthony,

I don't see why. I hope the Democratic Party is not tied to a subsidy/stimulus mindset, because if so, not only am I in the wrong party, but the whole situation is hopeless. That's just a terrible model for an economy. CIG=Y? Really? Is this how we're going to run the economy?

Here, you really need to see this

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 1:28 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
TARP I wasn't in favor of, and many think it did little more than calm some nerves, but reluctantly I have to say it was a positive. Unlike the pork barrel spending Obama has given us, which did little more than funnel $ to his base, and aid unions.

But WHY do you think it was a positive? I mean, aside from funneling more taxpayer $ to Bush's base and aiding the richest of the rich, what is the net positive that you see in the TARP bailouts?

As to specific questions and answers, you asked for SPECIFIC regulations that were violated that led to the Gulf oil spill last year. I provided such specifics, twice, and you seem to be avoiding the issue. It's a pattern I've seen from you quite often.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Wednesday, September 21, 2011 2:09 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Dream,

I have not really seen the Democratic party question the need for stimulus. Only the shape and flavor of the stimulus is in debate in that quarter. You may be in the wrong party if this is abhorrent to you.

The Tea Party set seems very critical of stimulus programs, but I'm not sure the rest of their platform would appeal to you either.

The GOP seem to be universally critical of Democratic stimulus packages, but less-so their own.

I'm not sure what party might share all of your philosophies, Dream, or even most of them.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 3:40 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello Dream,

I have not really seen the Democratic party question the need for stimulus. Only the shape and flavor of the stimulus is in debate in that quarter. You may be in the wrong party if this is abhorrent to you.

The Tea Party set seems very critical of stimulus programs, but I'm not sure the rest of their platform would appeal to you either.

The GOP seem to be universally critical of Democratic stimulus packages, but less-so their own.

I'm not sure what party might share all of your philosophies, Dream, or even most of them.

--Anthony

The Tories?

They fail to follow through on a lot of their ideas, political parties often do. But during the Bush years I heard a lot of anti-stimulus talk from the Democrats, and still quite a bit under Obama. It's probably one of two things that I hear no defense of Obama on even from his most loyal supporters: No one here supports the stimulus, and no one supports the war, and that includes some people who otherwise think that Obama walks on water.

Which, IMHO, won't be water for much longer with Obama around, but I don't see the Tea Party offering any clean opposition to that.

Did you watch the video? It's a good starting place for future googling of the problems with our Keynsian model. It's not strictly speaking a Democratic Party issue, but a US govt. one. The quote in the song "We're all Keynsians Now" is from Richard Nixon.

ETA: Some of my thoughts in stimulus got posted in the Soc. Sec. thread.
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=49729&m=862216#862216

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 6:54 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove: No one here supports the stimulus, and no one supports the war, and that includes some people who otherwise think that Obama walks on water.

Speak for yourself. I think the stimulus was far to small and not focuses enough. I also support the war in Afghanistan, as it was fully justified.

I however don't think Obama walks on water.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, September 22, 2011 12:13 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Speak for yourself. I think the stimulus was far to small and not focuses enough. I also support the war in Afghanistan, as it was fully justified.

From an Afghan perspective I would agree

Okay, in the future, my general inclusion of everyone will have the assumed appendix of "except Nick."

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

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Saturday, October 1, 2011 2:32 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

I remember that when this program came out, I thought rather highly of it. Amongst a lot of stimulus programs that targeted companies directly, this one targeted the consumer. It created demand amongst the consumer base and also updated a portion of the nation's automobiles to a more fuel efficient standard.

But lately I've seen the Clunkers program derided by some folks. What was the downside to this program that has made it unpopular with many Republicans? I'd always thought it was rather successful.

--Anthony

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but at the time I had bought a holdover vehicle, obvoiusly used, to tide me over until I found something better. It was a near-pristine (see: no rust) 1979 Ford LTD that was about 38 feet long and got 8 MPG in the city.

Admittedly, I don't know much about cars, and the damn thing after a year had to be in the shop about every 2 months just to keep her working. It broke my heart that a vehicle that sweet looking I would have to let go, but I was thrilled to find somebody after two years of ownership who would buy it off of me for 1/6th of what I paid for it and it wouldn't rust away in a bone yard. (What I wouldn't give for that car today now that I have my own 2 1/2 car garage!!!!!)

Funny thing was, while I was having all of those problems, the Cash for Clunkers program came out.

They wouldn't accept my car though, BECAUSE IT WAS TOO OLD!!!!!!!!!

WTF!!!!!!

It was a CAR!!!!!!

It got less MPG in the city than your average HUMMER!!!!!!

Whatever.....

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned."

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Saturday, October 1, 2011 3:55 PM

KWICKO

Quote:
They wouldn't accept my car though, BECAUSE IT WAS TOO OLD!!!!!!!!!

WTF!!!!!!

It was a CAR!!!!!!

It got less MPG in the city than your average HUMMER!!!!!!

Whatever.....

That was a political cave-in to appease the collector-car industry. People worried that if they were willing to take any car that got shitty mileage, people might turn in a '64 LeMans GTO or Hemi 'Cuda or some such.

There were things that could have and should have been handled better about the whole program, definitely.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, October 2, 2011 1:29 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I'm kinda on the fence about that decision....

Yeah, the program didn't get the true gas guzzlers off of the road, but at the same time, it really was an AWESOME car if I knew how to take care of it. Before I owned it I would zip around freeways in the left lane at 90MPH plus and have had several tickets to show for it. When I was in that ride I'd be in the right lane happily cruising at 55MPH and it felt like I was riding on a cloud. (A habit I have mostly continued to have now that I'm back in a crappy high mileage foreign car).

In the end, I'm glad that I didn't junk it and destroy it for government pay. I also know that considering the shape the body was in on a car that's almost non-existent today because they nearly all rusted out, he got a killer deal. I know he knows about cars though and that he'll take much better care of it than I could at the time in a place with snow 4 months of the year and no garage to keep it in.

I just didn't have a garage at the time, or the knowledge to keep a car like that in top shape. Truth is, I lucked into the car and I didn't deserve the responsibility.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned."

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