Where did all the visonaries go ? by Fremdfirma

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Where did all the visonaries go ?

POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Friday, October 28, 2011 19:21
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VIEWED: 1270
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Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:06 PM

Those that survived the "discipline", outcasting, and drugs, they wound up in places like this, of course.
Yet another supposed isolated incident...
Which is, of course, nothing of the sort.

Exclusive videos detail tactics at teen boot camps in Pasadena
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_19202277

And if you think for one goddamn moment these places aren't as predatory, as vile, as I name them to be, consider the REST of this story.

Monrovia man, local boot camp leader known as 'Sarge,' arrested on suspicion of kidnapping minor
http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/news/ci_18222048

Quote:
PASADENA - A Monrovia man who runs a youth boot camp for at-risk teens is facing kidnapping, extortion and other charges stemming from allegations he handcuffed a 14-year-old girl and demanded money from her parents for her release.

Kelvin McFarland, 40, who goes by "Sarge" and regularly wears a camouflage uniform as part of his Pasadena/Altadena-based boot camp business, Family 1st Growth Camp, was arrested May 27 and was being held on $285,000 bail, police said.

He was booked on suspicion of kidnapping, child abuse, false imprisonment, extortion and unlawful use of a badge. He has a scheduled June 13 preliminary hearing, officials said.

According to police, McFarland allegedly handcuffed the 14-year-old, who was truant from school. He then allegedly drove her to a relative's home and demanded money before releasing her.

McFarland then allegedly attempted to persuade the family into enrolling the minor in his boot camp business.

Detectives believe McFarland may have committed similar acts and obtained illegal payments from parents or guardians and are asking anyone who may have been a victim to contact the Pasadena Police Department at 626-744-4241.

Fornits has a topic going on the matter with more information:
http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37263&start=15

These places damage children, often irreparably, and sometimes even kill them.

Martin Lee Anderson: A life cut short
http://www.nospank.net/anderson.htm

And they get AWAY with it, almost every time - because children lack the same protections as adults have under the law, because children are not respected, or considered people, within our society.

And always, always, the same language - "uncooperative, manipulator, malingering, defiant..."
Which all boils down to "has mind/will of their own".

Think folks, THINK - where do all the "just following orders" jackboots come from, why does no one ever really stand up, where are all the visionaries ?
WE KILLED THEM
Either by outright death, or the murder of soul which this involves, we slaughtered our ghandis, strangled our mother theresas, purged from our society those who would have turned it to a gentler course.

And now, as we feast upon the bitter ashes that legacy has sown, as we stare down the jackboots and gunbarrels of the compliant, when people can suffer no more abuse at the hands of those supposedly in charge, and they cry out "where are our leaders?", and seem so disorganised, so adrift without the vision or the will to actually carry through and make the changes which need to be made, unable to even IMAGINE a world outside of the brutally exploitive "rules" which offer them such an insurmountable handicap, much less having it in them to break those rules....

Where now are the cries of those luminaries within our society that might have lead us away from this point, having been smothered, punished, drugged into compliance or sent to the camps ?

But here's the point I wish to make of it all, since none of the above should come as any surprise to you being that I have said it for freakin decades now... nor should this, but it needs sayin anyway.

You, as a nation, a people, a society, let them do it to kids.
And now they're gonna do it to you.

You gonna let em ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:28 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Golden Rule bites us in the ass. "They shall do unto you as you did unto them."

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:34 PM

CHRISISALL

I fear it's not safe.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:47 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Addendum: Re - just following orders.

It's worth a note that a lot of those kids, them that don't mentally implode or turn camp stooge, later seek out the military, as do a lot of children from extremely authoritarian households, both cause they're kinda pushed into it, and cause there's a certain comfort in the familiar... even if it's ugly.

And mind you, actual boot camp is far far worse, plus, despite my assertion that one ought to preclude the other in order to avoid militarization of the police (which has, obviously, happened) a lot of police are former military or child boot camp grads, authority seeking in direct response to being on the stomped end of the boot, you see ?

All of that, and you STILL think these drones have it in them to disobey orders, no matter how terrible those orders are ?
When they have been so brutally and viciously conditioned about it, when the henious consequences for not obeying even the most petty, ridiculous order are right here before you ?
YEARS of that conditioning, and you even pretend to believe they'll balk ?

They won't - and that's a fact.

Also, this just for you, Chris:

Yanno, that's why I respected Lavie more than Klaus in Last Exile - it wasn't Klaus who shouted "Screw Chivalry!", and then stood to in the face of pointed guns to call them out on their stupid damn fool obedience to rules even when it was tactically pointless and suicidal, it was Lavie.
And yet despite this, she still rejected impersonal, organised violence as a solution to anything, although she wasn't above breaking a chair over someones head when personally slighted.

The problem with "just following orders" isn't that the other guys will do it, even to the last.
My problem with it is that the protesters are "just following orders" TOO, orders given by the enemy, no less - you can protest here but not there, this day but not that day, you can do this, you can't do that...

If you ain't willing to break the rules, even when defying those who make them...
Why are you even there ?

To slightly misquote Malcom Reynolds - "Aim to misbehave!"
Ain't a matter of violence, so much as it is DISOBEDIANCE, yanno ?

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Thursday, October 27, 2011 4:52 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

This is pretty obvious abuse, manslaughter, perhaps murder.

HOWEVER - it's opposite isn't 100% freedom from adult 'interference' either - because that is just as deadly. Without interference, the kids don't get fed.

EVERY SINGLE YEAR BETWEEN 1996 AND 2005 66% OF ALL FCDS CORPORATIONS PAID NO TAXES.
I think the current tax structure is about right for corporations. - Geezer

Without the benefit of the surrounding society, a corporation dies. If society looks at a corporation and says 'work, or die', what work should be demanded of the corporation for it to earn its survival?

While Wall St. is going through the roof, Main St. is paying all the bills.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Friday, October 28, 2011 2:20 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
HOWEVER - it's opposite isn't 100% freedom from adult 'interference' either - because that is just as deadly. Without interference, the kids don't get fed.

Kiki, this is a non-issue. Nobody is advocating 100% freedom from adult interference to the point of not feeding kids. Nobody.

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Friday, October 28, 2011 2:25 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
To slightly misquote Malcom Reynolds - "Aim to misbehave!"
Ain't a matter of violence, so much as it is DISOBEDIANCE, yanno ?

One reason we don't disobey is because we have been conditioned to fear the punishments. And the punishments are indeed fearsome.

So we disobey in small spurts, enough to show some timid defiance, but not enough to get spanked too hard.

I understand the slaves used to do some passive aggressive thing called "shuffling." They pretended to obey, but then did nothing of the sort.

For me, the question is how? How do we fix this problem of dehumanization? How do we disobey?

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Friday, October 28, 2011 4:16 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Nobody is advocating 100% freedom from adult interference to the point of not feeding kids. Nobody."

Well then, what ARE you advocating?

If you can't get it out in a very few sentences, I suspect even you don't know.

EVERY SINGLE YEAR BETWEEN 1996 AND 2005 66% OF ALL FCDS CORPORATIONS PAID NO TAXES.
I think the current tax structure is about right for corporations. - Geezer

Without the benefit of the surrounding society, a corporation dies. If society looks at a corporation and says 'work, or die', what work should be demanded of the corporation for it to earn its survival?

While Wall St. is going through the roof, Main St. is paying all the bills.

Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?

Yeah, me neither....

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Friday, October 28, 2011 4:45 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I think the proposal is: Minimum necessary interference, Maximum possible freedom, and making the individual as much a part of their own process as can be achieved.

Which is probably a good universal standard for people and societies in general.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

"In every war, the state enacts a tax of freedom upon the citizenry. The unspoken promise is that the tax shall be revoked at war's end. Endless war holds no such promise. Hence, Eternal War is Eternal Slavery." --Admiral Robert J. Henner

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Friday, October 28, 2011 12:14 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
For me, the question is how? How do we fix this problem of dehumanization? How do we disobey?

Well, you start with the simplest things.

You can say "No."

Move away from here, go home!
"No."

OBEY US OR ELSE!
"No."

Give us your money!
"No."

And mind you, that's not even really a binary choice when it comes to it - cause of a little problem of numbers, see - sure they can force your obediance, WHEN they are there, WHEN they have force in hand, WHEN they are paying attention...

And for every one of them which has to do that, there's HOW many of us they cannot do it to, at the same time ?

Think like a child, if you must, one with an abusive parent, cause that's where that point above comes from - play along only when you must, only when they're right there lookin at you, only when they have force in hand, and any other time fuck them up ANY way you can think of.

As for those within the system who's hearts ache under the burden of need, who feel they cannot morally risk family or children, those for whom others will pay the cost of outright resistance ?
Never underestimate the power of "oops" - tiny, unprovable "mistakes", small acts of incidental negligence, those add up, people.

Quote:
The plans and schemes of tyrants are broken by many things. They shatter against cliffs of heroic struggle. They rupture on reefs of open resistance. And they are slowly eroded, bit by little bit, on the very beaches where they measure triumph, by countless grains of sand. By the stubborn little decencies of humble little men.
David Drake: In the heart of darkness

You roll ENOUGH pebbles, an avalanche will follow, surely as day follows dawn.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Friday, October 28, 2011 3:21 PM

JO753

rezident owtsidr

Herez 1 rite here, Frem.

I agree with wut youre saying. Skool haz alwayz been a conformity factory.

I believe it starts with the rediculous spelling 'system' they pound into kidz hedz, at least in English speaking countryz.

We are trained to ignore contradictionz and stupidity; tradition and obedience are everything, lojik and efficiency mean nothing. Dont think. Obey authority. Or else your life will be krap.
------------------------------------------

MOR XeN 70 RxS SPINING UBoWT XU GaLIKSE & XU MEK HaV INHeRITID NoT U 1. - MaL

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Friday, October 28, 2011 7:21 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Well then, what ARE you advocating?

What Anthony said was very succinct AND eloquent. Let's go with that.

But since I love enumeration and corniness, let me try my hand at it too.

1. Model. Live the life you want them to live. No double standards.
2. Attitude. Respect for children as sovereigns and leaders in the making.
3. Provision. Material nurturance. Food. Clothes. Shelter. Books. Games.
4. Love. Emotional nurturance. Listening. Hugging. Playing. Attending.
5. Education. Say yes to what they want to learn more often than you say no.

MAPLE, that is what I'm advocating. Few enough sentences for you to prove I know what I want? If not, then let's go with what Anthony said.

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