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"P aides: Super-committee Republicans open to tax increases"--yeah, right!

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Thursday, November 10, 2011 05:15
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Wednesday, November 9, 2011 6:38 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


(Sorry, the title didn't come out right, should be "GOP aides...")
Quote:

A mere two weeks before the congressional budget super committee's November 23 deadline, GOP members of the deficit-reduction panel have signaled a willingness to accept tax increases as part of a broader deficit reduction package, CNN learned Tuesday.

The development has the potential to break a deadlock within the sharply polarized 12-member group, as top Republicans have long been adamantly opposed to any tax hikes. A Senate GOP leadership aide called the shift a "significant concession" on the part of Republicans.

Democrats immediately rejected the offer, characterizing it as political gamesmanship.

The Republican proposal is based primarily on new limits on itemized tax deductions and credits for individuals, according to a Republican aide close to the discussions. The deduction for mortgage interest on second homes - a provision of the tax code used primarily by wealthier Americans - is one possible example, the aide said.

Sen. Patrick Toomey, R-Pennsylvania, helped to push the proposal during talks with Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, D-Montana, aides said.

In exchange for the new revenue generated by closing the loophole, Republicans want Democrats to agree to lower the top marginal income tax rate for individuals from 35% to 28% according to two Democratic sources. Republicans are also looking for significant changes to entitlement programs, including Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security.

One GOP aide asserted the Republican offer would generate hundreds of billions of dollars in new revenue, but refused to offer a specific figure.

"We are committed to doing what is needed to help avoid" automatic cuts, the aide said. "Their demand is tax increases have to be on the table, (and) that's something we're willing to look at."

Democrats quickly dismissed the offer, with aides calling it "not serious" and "a joke." Democrats accused their Republican counterparts of trying to shift blame for the stalled negotiations and disputed Republican claims their proposal would generate billions of dollars in new revenue.

"This plan would provide the very wealthiest American with one of the largest tax rate cuts ever. It's a shell game," one Democratic aide close to the committee told CNN. It is "a thinly veiled attempt to appear to put revenue on the table while simultaneously removing far more with massive tax cuts for wealthy Americans. This plan is not a solution Democrats or middle class Americans would ever be willing to accept."

"I've yet to see a real credible plan that raises revenue in a significant way to bring us to a fair and balanced proposal," said super committee co-chair Sen. Patty Murray, D-Washington.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Kentucky, avoided directly addressing the question of new revenue.

"I can tell you with certainty that the six Republicans on the (super committee) want an outcome, do not believe failure is an option and we're working toward that end as diligently as we can," McConnell insisted.

The Republican leader said he suspects "folks down at the White House are pulling for failure."

"If the (super committee) succeeds, it steps on the story line that they have been peddling, which is that you can't do anything with the Republicans in Congress," he said.

Of COURSE it's a joke, the requirement that it be accompanied by a tax break shows that right off the bat!

Not only that, but even if the Super Committee Republicans DO agree to any kind of taxes, remember House and Senate have to approve whatever they come up with, so the Repubs can simply vote it down and get what I believe they've wanted all along--drastic across-the-board cuts which will result in the S.C.'s results failing, whatever they may be.

When WILL people wake up?

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Wednesday, November 9, 2011 6:56 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


I saw that story myself: The R's are willing to consider (consider and argue about, not just accept) chump-change increases in loopholes that benefit the rich, in return for GUARANTEED approval of a permanent Large scale tax cut for the even richer. Offset by spending cuts in benefit programs for the poor and working classes.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2011 7:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup, you got it. Amazing, isn't it??



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Wednesday, November 9, 2011 7:42 AM

BYTEMITE


This is why independents think NEITHER side is willing to compromise.

Look. You close corporate tax loopholes, suddenly they're paying a crapton more taxes, even IF you lower the top margin rates. While okay, yes, I don't mind seeing corporations and the top margin get taxed at 30-something percent, you've GOT to start SOMEWHERE.

You think tax loopholes are chump change? Wow. Tell that to the 100 billions (plural billions intentional) filed away overseas from corporations doing their best to evade taxes. 7% back to get them to play ball? Corporations are on the LOSING SIDE of that deal.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2011 8:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

You think tax loopholes are chump change? Wow.
Nice subtle snark, Byte, but you're completely wrong:
Quote:

they're paying a crapton more taxes, even IF you lower the top margin rates
Not according to the Republicans and analysts, nor do the Republicans suggeting it have any INTENTION of it costing them a penny. Obviously that's not what I wrote, nor what they intend.

Closing tax loopholes ALONG WITH dropping the tax rate nullifies revenue, that's been shown over and over again. That's also exactly what the Republicans themselves SAID some time ago, and reiterated yesterday: that they'd be open to closing loopholes as long as the tax rate were dropped so that there was "no net tax increase". Their own WORDS: "GOP Senators to Supercommittee: ‘No Net Tax Increases’" ( http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/282225/gop-senators-supercommitte
e-no-net-tax-increases-andrew-stiles
); "The Taxpayer Protection Pledge is a one-sentence written commitment by members of the House and Senate to their constituents that they will oppose and vote against any and all efforts to increase total taxes. No net tax increase. Tax reform reducing tax credits, deductions and/or exemptions in return for reducing marginal tax rates so that the change is not a net tax hike is not only consistent with the pledge but was the original and continuing purpose of the Taxpayer Protection Pledge." From Grover Norquist himself, at http://www.statesman.com/opinion/tax-reform-starts-with-a-one-sentence
-commitment-1914401.html?printArticle=y


In other words, the whole thing is a game intended to sound like they're compromising, but which in point of fact adds NO revenue to the attempt to pay down the debt. Get it?



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Wednesday, November 9, 2011 8:09 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Not according to the Republicans and analysts


No kidding, Niki, that's because they're trying to DOWNPLAY the amount of money that gets away from the taxes. The only reason they even OFFERED such a holy grail is because they knew Democrats would balk more at the 7% reduction on principle.

It's called a bluff. It's a bunch of misdirection tricking people away from what's really important to them. If Democrats had taken them up on it (not that they would have), you would have seen corporations simultaneously shit a brick. The stock market would have dropped out from under our feet.

Republicans and corporations LIE. Please stop acting the way they expect you to act, because that's how they're getting away with this garbage.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2011 8:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Byte, at this point if I were you I would say something along the lines of "I'm tired of being picked on". You're starting to get personal and it seems as if you're taking aim at me on two specific issues at least. I don't mind, I'll respond to each situation as needs be and it's neither here nor there how you feel about me, I'm just saying it so that maybe you can recognize how it feels and realize that maybe it's not what you intend, so turn that around next time you feel picked on.

Nonetheless, I would appreciate it if you would stop foisting you OPINION on matters on me by telling me what to do and denigrating what I'm reporting because you believe otherwise. The FACT is that Norquist has had them sign a pledge that they will never, under any circumstances, raise taxes, and that the Republicans have stated over and over "no tax increases", which is what I've been reporting. We can agree to disagree on the interpretation of same or what we each believe, but that's about all. I'll agree to disagree, because I think you're wrong...that's just MY opinion.



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Wednesday, November 9, 2011 8:44 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:


You think tax loopholes are chump change?



The one I heard about them discussing is: it would remove the loophole for interest taxes on mortgages for SECOND homes. Might benefit the government to about $ 500 million in increased revenue NATIONWIDE. That's about 1/2 a BILLION dollars. The Defense Dept probably spends more than that on CHOW every DAY.

ANd that one will really help us working folks-- I'd have to but a first home first, before I could take out a mortgage on a second one.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2011 9:00 AM

BYTEMITE


Ah. Now I'm starting to understand. You mean that they're also misrepresenting WHICH corporate loopholes they're closing and only aiming at the ones with a shallow pocket.

Because if they were actually agreeing to close ALL corporate loopholes, which is what the writing in the article lead me to believe, that would be a huge deal.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2011 9:10 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats.
- H. L. Mencken


And believe me, the longer I watch these petulant little prats wreck everything we hold dear like nasty little toddlers who wreck toys rather than share, I become more and more convinced that Robespierre had a good freakin point.

Sure, that only buys you a generation or two, but in combination with not psychologically and emotionally crippling future generations....

The risk that non-mangled humans may not ever get to prosper before shitheads like these wreck our country beyond repair is something preying on my mind as of late, although I'd really rather have em wax each other if they can be pushed into it.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

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Wednesday, November 9, 2011 9:12 AM

BYTEMITE


Niki, I think that what's going on is I'm saying things that I don't mean as insults, but they're hitting you the wrong way. It's not my place to judge that, or how you're feeling in response to what I'm saying, but to try to respect how you're responding.

I want you to know any impression you have of this is unintentional, as this is only the second article I've responded to you on today, and, as I said, I am not intending to insult you. I also think that my behaviour towards you has been nothing like what kaneman, AuRaptor, or Wulf have done to you.

I've been polite and supportive about OWS, I haven't voiced any worries or concerns about it since I was asked not to nearly a month ago.

My comments here were intended more as a warning about what I think the Republicans are doing than as a judgment on you, though I can see how it came across that way.

And my comments in the abortion thread were not a judgment on what news articles you chose to post. I merely expressed surprise that YOU were not the one posting it, obviously I read and respond to articles about abortion, therefore they must have value.

And lastly, I'm bothered that you think I say people are picking on ME. I've seen what being picked on looks like around here. I've never thought that people have been picking on me, and I don't think I've ever said that either. Rather, there are times that I've become frustrated and not wanted to continue a conversation, and also times that stress or depression or paranoia or anxiety have gotten to me and I've had to bow out so that my emotions could stabilize.

If people are treating me with kid gloves, they have no reason to want to listen to what I'm saying. Similarly, people need to be able to discuss issues, and have disagreements and confrontations without feeling like they need to treat whoever they're arguing with lightly, or else we'll never really understand each other.

Speaking of which, I'm clearly failing to connect and understand you right now, and it would be best if I said nothing further to you until I can be sure that my attitude is not confrontational.

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Thursday, November 10, 2011 5:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


All I have to say about this is that I never, ever compared you to any of those you listed in any way, shape or form. And I don't recall anyone asking you not to talk about OWS; if you think I did, you're mistaken. Beyond that, it's not worth carrying on this conversation.



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