REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Republican field, in the last few days

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Monday, December 5, 2011 14:13
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Friday, December 2, 2011 8:27 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Amusing notes from the Republican primary:
Quote:

Presidential hopeful Herman Cain sent an e-mail message to supporters Friday, asking for their moral and financial support on the same day he is to meet with his wife to discuss allegations of a 13-year affair with another woman, plunging poll numbers and declining financial contributions.
"I am inviting you to share your voice with me, my family and staff, and the nation," Cain said in the message. "In short, I need to know that you are behind me 100%. In today's political environment, the only way we can gauge true support is by the willingness of our supporters to invest in this effort."

In other words, "Gimme money, but I may not run". Much like Sarah's last move before bowing out. They know how to do what they do!
Quote:

"I'm going to be the nominee," Newt Gingrich said on Thursday. "It's very hard not to look at the recent polls and think that the odds are very high I'm going to be the nominee."

[Then today:]

After confidently declaring earlier Thursday he would become the Republican nominee, Newt Gingrich toned down his hubris later that night, saying it was up to the voters to make that choice.
"The people decide, and in the end, they've got to make the decision, but certainly it's moving in the right direction," Gingrich said when pressed in a Fox News interview on whether he stood by his previous remarks about winning the nomination.

Quote:


Asked about his debate "brain freeze," in which he forgot the third of three agencies he would cut as president, Rick Perry joked: "Well, you know, one, two, and then - uh, uh. It happens, man. Let me tell you."

Perry said it wasn't the only time he's made a mistake.

"Every now and then I call my dogs by the wrong name,” he said. "I get that wrong, too."

The Texas governor also made headlines this week when he flubbed the nation's voting age at a campaign stop in New Hampshire, telling students in the audience he'd appreciate their vote if they were turning 21 by Nov. 12.

The official voting age is 18, and the election next year takes place on Nov. 6.

Perry told Leno he was thinking of the drinking age at the time he made the comment.

"You've got to have an excuse, right? So that's mine, and I'm sticking to it," Perry said, laughing.

Quote:

Michele Bachmann has revealed her plans to close the U.S. Embassy in the Middle Eastern country despite America not having one there since 1980.

Bachmann's own 'oops' moment came while applauding Britain's decision to pull its nationals out of its embassy after students stormed the building in protest earlier this week.

According to reports, the GOP presidential candidate told a crowd in Waverly, Iowa, yesterday: 'That’s exactly what I would do [if I were president]. We wouldn’t have an embassy in Iran. I wouldn’t allow that to be there.'

The U.S. cut all diplomatic ties with the country during a crisis in which 52 Americans were held hostage for 444 days between November 4, 1979 and January 20, 1981.

Quote:

So far Mitt Romney has escaped the full Daily Show takedown, mostly because why waste time on the Romney-bot when the GOP field is so a target rich.

But after Tuesday's contentious interview with Fox News' Bret Baier -- contentious because Baier asked fair and tough questions about Romney's history of flip-flopping and Romney, who's been hiding from the press for the last 6 months, did not especially like that -- was enough to get Stewart's attention.

"Just like Herman Cain Mitt Romney has an embarrassing person in his past who he's desperately trying to hide. For Herman Cain it's a woman named Ginger White. For Mitt Romney it's Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney is his own mistress. And by the way it makes sense because they say, opposites attract."

Whatta bunch!

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Friday, December 2, 2011 9:48 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Bump. Thinking back, I can never remember a primary battle where there were so many fringe idiots, incompetents and downright incredible people SERIOUSLY vying for the Presidency. And being TAKEN seriously. Doesn't anyone find it so? Is this a harbinger of the future? If so, we are truly lost as a nation.

Just stop for a second and imagine Michelle Bachmann as President. Or Herman Cain, who would have us bombing Iran and starting WW III. These people are just plain IGNORANT, and few on the right seem to care!



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Friday, December 2, 2011 12:27 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Thinking back, I can never remember a primary battle where there were so many fringe idiots, incompetents and downright incredible people SERIOUSLY vying for the Presidency.



Democrats in 1988?

Jessie Jackson, Al Gore, Dick Gephardt, Paul Simon (the other Paul Simon, not the singer), Gary Hart, and the nominee, Michael Dukakis.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, December 2, 2011 3:09 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Thinking back, I can never remember a primary battle where there were so many fringe idiots, incompetents and downright incredible people SERIOUSLY vying for the Presidency.



Democrats in 1988?

Jessie Jackson, Al Gore, Dick Gephardt, Paul Simon (the other Paul Simon, not the singer), Gary Hart, and the nominee, Michael Dukakis.

"Keep the Shiny side up"




Should we expect similar election results from this field?

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 4:14 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Should we expect similar election results from this field?


The Republicans could probably run YOU and poll better than Dukakis did. Lots of them would vote for a homophobe who supports the war on drugs and dismisses First Amendment rights.


Yep. Fun.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 4:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:


The Republicans could probably run YOU and poll better than Dukakis did. Lots of them would vote for a homophobe who supports the war on drugs and dismisses First Amendment rights.




I'll have to take your word for it. After all, you vote Republican, so I guess you know what you want in your candidates. If you say your party supports freedom-hating homophobes, who am I to argue?

So why aren't you running?


(BTW, Dukakis did about as well in the popular vote as McCain did, percentage-wise. Guess the GOP is about polls about as well as Dukakis did, too.)


You're right; this IS fun!

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 3:21 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'll have to take your word for it. After all, you vote Republican...



Where on earth did you get that idea? The only Republican I've voted for in the past 20 years was my state representative, who's regularly won re-election in one of the most liberal counties in Virginia.

ETA: So do you mean we can just make stuff up? The look out.



"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 6:05 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I'll have to take your word for it. After all, you vote Republican...



Where on earth did you get that idea? The only Republican I've voted for in the past 20 years was my state representative, who's regularly won re-election in one of the most liberal counties in Virginia.

ETA: So do you mean we can just make stuff up? The look out.



"Keep the Shiny side up"




Of course you just make stuff up. That's all you've been doing for quite some time now.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 8:43 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Don't forget Mondale - the guy who ran UNOPPOSED in a State Primary... and lost.

-F

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Saturday, December 3, 2011 9:12 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And the Republican field is smaller today by one. The guy who just a few short weeks ago was the front-runner, and who won the Florida straw poll (which we were assured had chosen the eventual nominee numerous times in the past), has now quit his campaign in the midst of numerous sex scandal allegations, well before any party primaries have occurred.


He says he's leaving his campaign to avoid all the damage it will do to his family. And no doubt to all his mistresses as well. Allegedly. So today, his message seems to be,

"No we CAIN'T!"



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 8:50 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


My gawd, that you could compare ANY of those with Michelle Bachman, Rick Perry, or Cain's imaginary campaign... I freely concede we've had crazies on both sides in the nomination process (given anyone can run), but at least the same volume of sheer stupidity wasn't the same. But yeah, that was a bad one, too, just to me not nearly as bad as the amazing shit I hear come out of the mouths of some of today's candidates.

I also don't agree that some of those even fit in the same category. While some, yes, unquestionably.

Of COURSE people assume you're Republican; one could hardly assume otherwise, given every single post is pro-right and anti-left! So you may not vote that way, but you certainly think that way--when is the last time you gave anyone or anyTHING on the left the slightest bit of consideration? While you argue vehemently and consistently that everything on the right is "right", without fail.

So do you even vote? If so, when's the last democrat, green party or independent you ever voted for, and if you ever did, how many times? You are steadfastly married to everything right wing, respond automatically and, as far as I can tell, despise anything which might even slightly seem progressive...



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Sunday, December 4, 2011 9:23 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Dukakis proposed cuts in military spending, and using the money saved for programs in education, health care, and numerous other social programs. Bush wanted to continue the conservative economic programs that had developed under President Reagan. He called for cuts in the capital gains tax, and promised voters, “Read my lips, no new taxes.”
Quote:

In "An Even Better Place," his solemn new book about 21st century America, House Minority Leader Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.) complains repeatedly about the major threat to democracy: extreme partisanship. "It is essential for partisan differences to be put aside at times for the sake of compromise," Gephardt writes. "Otherwise, nothing can ever be done."
Quote:

"Today I challenge our nation to commit to producing 100 percent of our electricity from renewable energy and truly clean carbon-free sources within 10 years." And my favorite part: "When President John F. Kennedy challenged our nation to land a man on the moon and bring him back safely in 10 years, many people doubted we could accomplish that goal. But 8 years and 2 months later, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin walked on the surface of the moon."
Ten years might have been "crazy", but how hard the right is fighting just about ANY move toward renewable energy is equally crazy.

I'll freely give you Jessee Jackson (take him, PLEASE!), but you'll have to show me examples of any of the others saying things as crazy as Bachmann or showing equal ignorance on almost ALL subjects as Cain. I'll grant you Ron Paul isn't what I'd consider "crazy", just maybe out of touch with reality, and Romney is nothing more than the usual politician, changing stances as fast as his socks.

But Gingrich??? How about a sampling:
Quote:

(1) “I am convinced that if we do not decisively win the struggle over the nature of America, by the time [my grandchildren are] my age they will be in a secular atheist country, potentially one dominated by radical Islamists and with no understanding of what it once meant to be an American.” [Address to Cornerstone Church in Texas, March 2011]

(2) “The idea that a congressman would be tainted by accepting money from private industry or private sources is essentially a socialist argument.” [To Mother Jones magazine, October 1989]

(3) “What if [Obama] is so outside our comprehension, that only if you understand Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior, can you begin to piece together [his actions]? That is the most accurate, predictive model for his behavior.” [To the National Review, September 2010]

(4) “The secular socialist machine represents as great a threat to America as Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union once did.” [In his book To Save America: Stopping Obama's Secular-Socialist Machine, May 2010.]

(5) “I want to say to the elite of this country—the elite news media, the liberal academic elite, the liberal political elite: I accuse you in Littleton… of being afraid to talk about the mess you have made, and being afraid to take responsibility for things you have done, and instead foisting upon the rest of us pathetic banalities because you don’t have the courage to look at the world you have created.” [Speaking about the Columbine shootings, May 1999]



Not only does the last have nothing to do with Columbine, if you substitute "Republicans" for the whole section before the ellipsis, THAT would be right on target, given the obvious truth of the statement where the Bush Administration is concerned.

I know little about the other guy, but Huntsman, in my opinion, is as sane as they come...too bad the right is so desperate to suck up to their fringe they can't see it.

So show us some specifics on how the candidates you listed were as crazy as those today.

One commentator summed it up nicely for me:
Quote:

it’s become obvious to me what none of the pundits will actually say: This is the single worst field of presidential candidates a major party has put forward in 50 years, even worse than the Democrats’ candidates in 1988.

Former Gov. Mitt Romney is the only one who has the experience, stature and demeanor to be a credible president, but he’s got big problems of his own.

Gov. Rick Perry had a great resume, but let’s face it: as last night’s “oops” moment showed yet again, he’s just too dumb to be commander in chief.

Former Gov. Jon Huntsman was a media darling—and a sensible conservative with real experience–who’s going nowhere.

Former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich is smart in his own quirky way, but he’s got more baggage than a packed 777, and his negative ratings are astronomical.

Rep. Ron Paul is a consistent, principled libertarian whose dovish foreign policy views effectively limit his support to 12% of the Republican vote.

Rep. Michelle Bachmann is just wacky and former Sen. Rick Santorum has appeal only among Christian conservatives.

And Herman Cain, the flavor of the minute until last week’s allegations of sexual harassment arose, is a one-note (or nine-note) candidate who is breathtakingly ignorant about other countries, as he demonstrated last night again with his non-response to Bartiromo’s questions about Italy.

Meanwhile, several qualified candidates chose not to run: former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels, and Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour. One unqualified celebrity whose name will not be mentioned on this blog also didn’t throw her hat into the ring.

It reminds me a bit of 1988, when Sen. Edward Kennedy and New York’s Gov. Mario Cuomo opted out , and the front-runner, Sen. Gary Hart, withdrew after being caught with model Donna Rice on the Monkey Business yacht off Bimini.

But that much-derided group, which produced the hapless Gov. Michael Dukakis as its losing presidential candidate, included future vice presidents Joe Biden and Al Gore.

There’s much less promise in the current Republican bunch, but why? I’d argue that large swaths of the current Republican electorate are so extreme that a candidate can’t please them and then pivot enough to win a general election.

Evangelical Christians represented nearly half the GOP primary voters in 2008. “Evangelicals are plentiful enough that any candidate whom they deem completely unacceptable faces a formidable obstacle,” wrote Ron Brownstein in The National Journal.

And just about half of Republican voters identify with the Tea Party movement (including many evangelicals), but it’s less than one out of four voters overall.

So, there’s a huge gap between the very conservative GOP (two-thirds of the party) and the at best moderately conservative electorate—particularly on social issues like gay marriage and abortion, but also on core fiscal issues like taxation and entitlements such as Medicare and Social Security.

I’d suspect many of the prospective candidates (and former Gov. Tim Pawlenty, who dropped out) just couldn’t figure out how to bridge that gap. That’s what Mitt Romney’s flip flopping is all about. If he didn’t have to pander to extremists in his own party, he’d be a formidable moderately conservative candidate in the general election.

The Republican Party has moved SO far to the extreme right that it's absolutely true this time: ANYTHING goes!



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Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:27 AM

FREMDFIRMA



They've gone so far right they fell off the edge of sanity, is what it is...

Oh and THANK YOU Mikey, for making me blow cappucino out my nose with that poster, jerk!

-F

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Mike, I can't make out the post in question because the text disappears off to the right, and the graphic doesn't come up at all. Can you fix? I'd LOVE to have--well, ice tea--come out my nose; I could use a good laugh!



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Sunday, December 4, 2011 11:34 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


So, Geezer, no desire to respond to my questions, provide specifics, or anything?



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Sunday, December 4, 2011 3:03 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Mike, I can't make out the post in question because the text disappears off to the right, and the graphic doesn't come up at all. Can you fix? I'd LOVE to have--well, ice tea--come out my nose; I could use a good laugh!




Oh, it's just another take on the "Dope" meme that's been floating around. Here ya go - the original was a .png file, so I changed it to a jpeg; hopefully you can see this one better.



"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 5:13 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I wonder who the Koch brothers are going to back now.

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Sunday, December 4, 2011 7:07 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
I wonder who the Koch brothers are going to back now.




Newt. And for $5000, he'll even give them a plaque!

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Monday, December 5, 2011 3:30 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
So, Geezer, no desire to respond to my questions, provide specifics, or anything?



No.

Your mind is so locked up that it'd be a waste of time.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Monday, December 5, 2011 5:01 AM

BYTEMITE


I'm pretty sure that everything about selecting candidates is planned and managed in advance. Herman Cain bowing out, Newt being told to scale back his comments, all little indications of the back room deals for positions or pet agendas that go into the show of congressional and presidential races.

Even the fight between Hillary and Obama last year. I think it's all a big improvisational show, where the results are always predictable, and all the fireworks and gallantry hide the players behind the screens.

Which is the main reason I'm not interested at all in political campaigns.

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Monday, December 5, 2011 6:24 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I agree with most of what you said, but I don't think it's ALL as conspiraed and scripted as you do. Just not all. There are things that don't do the backer(s), or the party, or the candidate, any good, for one thing, which I don't think they planned.

Sad Geezer; I'll have to remember that out next time you challenge me.



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Monday, December 5, 2011 6:33 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
So, Geezer, no desire to respond to my questions, provide specifics, or anything?



No.

Your mind is so locked up that it'd be a waste of time.

"Keep the Shiny side up"



Playing from the Rappy debate rulebook, huh?

Make claim, then, when asked for specifics, huffily decline, insisting it would be a waste of time.

Precious.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Monday, December 5, 2011 2:00 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
So, Geezer, no desire to respond to my questions, provide specifics, or anything?



No.

Your mind is so locked up that it'd be a waste of time.

"Keep the Shiny side up"



Playing from the Rappy debate rulebook, huh?

Make claim, then, when asked for specifics, huffily decline, insisting it would be a waste of time.

Precious.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"




They seem to have become one lately. No real surprise there.


Also not surprised that Geezer can't find a single example or cite to support his claims.

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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Monday, December 5, 2011 2:13 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

There are things that don't do the backer(s), or the party, or the candidate, any good


Well of course. IMO those things are what they've agreed upon with the opposition party in additional backroom deals about what they want to do and accomplish, also so the opposition party can look like it's put up a token resistance.

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