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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by kpo:
Good news.

I just read a good quote from a healthcare economist who helped draft the law, predicting that Obamacare will become popular if implemented: "I have a vision that if the Affordable Care Act takes place, twenty years from now in a town hall someone will rise and say, 'Keep the government's hands off my Affordable Care Act!'"

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Absolutely horrible news.

And what yous say, 'Keep the govt's hands off MY Affordable Care Act!' ... truly sad.

You gleefully cheer as more and more Americans are shackled and bound under the yoke of an oppressive imperial federal govt. More people becoming ever more dependent on a 'womb to tomb' bureaucracy that robs us of the very freedoms on which this country was founded.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

You gleefully cheer as more and more Americans are shackled and bound under the yoke of an oppressive imperial federal govt. More people becoming ever more dependent on a 'womb to tomb' bureaucracy that robs us of the very freedoms on which this country was founded.

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Originally posted by RionaEire:
I'm opposed to the individual mandate. Because people who make just enough to not be covered by public insurance, who are self employed are going to have to pay wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much money on this and they won't be able to get away with foregoing it. That effects me and mine, so ergo I don't support this thing. That will eat up lots of money that could be spent on fun stuff. I would much prefer a Germany type system where people can either have private insurance or just get on the public option. I don't like this mandate at all.

I have Kathy Bates on speed dial, mwa ha ha ha (in exaggeratedly evil voice)

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya.

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Originally posted by Hero:
It's very difficult, but it means insurance for millions of poor, little change to millions of rich and no insurance for the middle class who also face diminished job prospects and much higher taxes.

Very sad.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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I'm sure I'll make a lot of friends standing in line for cheese 10 years from now lol....

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Uh, guys? AU kinda has a point here.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

You gleefully cheer as more and more Americans are shackled and bound under the yoke of an oppressive imperial federal govt. More people becoming ever more dependent on a 'womb to tomb' bureaucracy that robs us of the very freedoms on which this country was founded.

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Uh, guys? AU kinda has a point here.

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how would you propose it could work, without the mandatory fee?

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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how would you propose it could work, without the mandatory fee?

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Other countries seem to do it pretty well. Though I just love how all of these programs seem to exist to antagonize and exploit the younger population.

The problem is the overreliance on these insurance industries, who pretty much have very little incentive to do what they advertise. The Obama program does try to address this, which I give it credit for, but the answer is NOT making everyone buy in whether they need it or not. The ANSWER is in making healthcare more affordable, not relying on insurance. The states have the highest cost of healthcare anywhere in the modern world, and it's because of questionable charges and side-practices from referral doctors, questionable pricing from medical equipment manufacturers (50 dollars for glass syringes, really?), and a monopoly the pharmaceutical industry has due to closing our borders against imported medicine.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Nick:

Is the US an imperial power? Yes?

Is the US controlling the population pretty much from infancy using television and propaganda? Yes?

Hey, AU's got a point.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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how would you propose it could work, without the mandatory fee?

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Other countries seem to do it pretty well.

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The approval ratings for congress and the government as a whole are in the tank, as are the rating for both political parties.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I'd actually prefer taxes or charitable donations to being FORCED to buy something from a completely unreliable and often malicious source, thanks. Government is bad, but insurance companies are a special kind of wrong. They're like vultures, or ghouls, capitalizing off of civilians dying. I don't actually want to support them, like at ALL.

And that's when local insurance companies and politicians aren't in bed together, and deliberately working to silence political dissenters. They are the worst. The WORST.

The government DOES do it's share of killing and capitalizing from the killing, but at least that's not the ONLY thing they do. And yes, you've just found something I hate more than government. It's just I don't think of hate and wrongness as an either/or thing.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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The approval ratings for congress and the government as a whole are in the tank, as are the rating for both political parties.

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Yeah, but there's still enough people who are "true believers" so to speak that even when there is some large scale dissatisfaction the believers can compensate for it. And that's not even getting into how people when they are dissatisfied have been taught to be completely ineffectual in their resistance or ability to change anything.

Americans don't fight anymore, we just lie down and take everything. Caution and foresight have been replaced by apathy and naivety, ability to fight has been replaced by obesity and delusion. We are a sad pathetic bunch who can accomplish exactly nothing.

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Us being lazy and not fighting has nothing to do with propaganda

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"The federal government does not have the power to order people to buy health insurance. The federal government does have the power to impose a tax on those without health insurance. The payment is collected solely by the IRS through the normal means of taxation. Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness."
-Homosexual Chief Justice John Roberts, National Federation of Independent Business et al v Sebelius Secretary of Health and Human Services et al, US Supreme Court, 28 June 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Federation_of_Independent_Busine
ss_v._Sebelius

"Stocks of hospital companies rose and insurance companies will also gain millions of premium-paying customers."
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/jun/28/high-court-upholds-key-part-o
f-obama-health-law/?partner=popular

"Nearly 20 percent of new Obamacare waivers are gourmet restaurants, nightclubs, fancy hotels in Nancy Pelosi’s district - Of the 204 new Obamacare waivers President Barack Obama’s administration approved in April, 38 are for fancy eateries, hip nightclubs and decadent hotels in House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi’s Northern California district. That’s in addition to the 27 new waivers for health care or drug companies and the 31 new union waivers Obama’s Department of Health and Human Services approved."
http://dailycaller.com/2011/05/17/nearly-20-percent-of-new-obamacare-w
aivers-are-gourmet-restaurants-nightclubs-fancy-hotels-in-nancy-pelosi%E2%80%99s-district/

"Latest beneficiary of ObamaCare waiver: AARP - No one seems to know what criteria HHS uses to grant or deny waivers to insurers from provisions in ObamaCare. The White House won’t release the names of those insurers and employers refused waivers or discuss denials at all. But maybe, just maybe, we could all agree that organizations that publicly pushed ObamaCare to approval should be ineligible to escape its consequences? The Daily Caller has learned that the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) rate review rules, which it finalized on Thursday, exempt “Medigap” policy providers, like the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP), from oversight when such providers increase payment rates for their supplemental insurance plans. Insurance providers who aren’t exempt from Obamacare’s rate review rules are required to publicly release and explain some health care payment rate increases. Let’s not forget that AARP had a distinct interest in seeing ObamaCare pass, because it helped eliminate competition for AARP’s supplemental insurance program."
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/05/20/latest-beneficiary-of-obamacare-
waiver-aarp/

"Tennessee governor signs health care freedom into law - On Friday, Gov. Bill Haslam signed the Tennessee Health Care Freedom Act (SB0079), making health care freedom the law of the land in Tennessee. The Tennessee Health Care Freedom Act is a direct response to the passage of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act by Congress last year. While SB0079 does not seek to nullify the federal law in its entirety, the goal of the new law is to ensure that Tennesseans are free to choose whether to participate in the federal plan, choose another plan, or not participate in any plan at all."
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com/2011/03/tennessee-governor-signs-
health-care-freedom-into-law/#more-7116

"It is declared that the public policy of this state, consistent with our constitutionally recognized and inalienable right of liberty, is that every person within this state is and shall be free to choose or to decline to choose any mode of securing health care services without penalty or threat of penalty. It is declared that the public policy of this state, consistent with our constitutionally recognized and inalienable right of liberty, is that every person within this state has the right to purchase health insurance or to refuse to purchase health insurance. The government may not interfere with a citizen’s right to purchase health insurance or with a citizen’s right to refuse to purchase health insurance. The government may not enact a law that would restrict these rights or that would impose a form of punishment for exercising either of these rights. Any law to the contrary shall be void ab initio."
-Tennessee Health Care Freedom Act SB 0079 2011
http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/billinfo/default.aspx?BillNumber=SB007
9

"President Obama’s Affordable Care Act, March 23, 2010, is similar to President Fillmore’s Fugitive Slave Act, Sept. 18, 1850. The Supreme Court’s health-care decision, June 27, 2012, is similar to its Dred Scott decision, March 6, 1857. The chief plank in the original Republican Party platform, June 1856, defended traditional marriage and the value of human life, intending to 'prohibit in the territories those twin relics of barbarism: polygamy and slavery.' America was divided geographically between: Moderate Democratic South, which said slavery may be wrong, but the country has to live with it. Though personally against slavery, they believed the right to own slaves should be protected, just made rare and few, and treat slaves humanely. Extreme Democratic South, which said slavery is good and should be expanded into Western states. They tried to justify it by twisting Scriptures, citing that Abraham owned slaves but ignoring Jesus’ teaching to “do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Extreme Democrats Speaker Howell Cobb and Senate President William King pushed through the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850, which put the slavery issue squarely in the face of the anti-slavery North, whereas before it had become an out-of-sight and out-of-mind issue occurring on Southern plantations. The Fugitive Slave Law imposed severe penalties on those who aided escaped slaves with food or shelter in their passage to freedom in Michigan or Canada. It also made it a crime to interfere with the slave catchers’ recovery of runaway slaves. A person could be held criminally liable, fined $1000 and imprisoned for six months if they failed to report a neighbor suspected of helping slaves.”
http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/obamacare-decision-todays-dred-scott/

"It would give to persons of the negro race, the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased, to sojourn there as long as they pleased, to go where they pleased the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak; to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went. No State can, by any act or law of its own, passed since the adoption of the Constitution, introduce a new member into the political community created by the Constitution of the United States. It is now firmly settled by the decisions of the highest court in the State, that Scott and his family upon their return were not free, but were, by the laws of Missouri, the property of the defendant; and that the Circuit Court of the United States had no jurisdiction, when, by the laws of the State, the plaintiff was a slave, and not a citizen."
-Chief Justice Taney, US Supreme Court, 7–2 decision, Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U.S. 393 (1857)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
We're taught to sit in a desk and take abuse and bow down to authority from five years old onward. Kids are bombarded with advertising to not eat healthy. We're taught by parents and society to support one of the parties or another, even when neither one really changes much of anything. We don't run for office because we can't afford to - that's only for the upper classes, and has been since the time of the founding fathers. Instead of active resistence, we're told that our votes are just so important, while the corrupt people we elect just laugh up their sleeves.

We're talking layers upon layers of very subtle conditioning, that when added up, leads to an apathetic and listless population becalmed by escapist fantasy. Bread and circuses.

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