"NOW Do You Believe in Global Warming?" by Niki2

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Or possibly more than one venue reported on similar data.

The Auraptor on the other website posted an article that was word for word the same as our Auraptor, and linked to the same (very different) Daily Mail article that you posted...

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, July 13, 2012 2:14 PM

America loves a winner!

High temps today were 15-20 degrees lower the last couple of days than they were a week or so ago. At this rate, we'll be covered in ice by September.

There. I just used the same sort of junk science tactics that the AGW zealots have been pushing on us.

Where's my million dollar grant ?

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, July 13, 2012 3:02 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
There. I just used the same sort of junk science tactics that the AGW zealots have been pushing on us.

Where's my million dollar grant ?

Quote? Who were these government-funded scientists, and what exactly did they say that was comparable in stupidity to what you posted?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, July 13, 2012 4:09 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

High temps today were 15-20 degrees lower the last couple of days than they were a week or so ago. At this rate, we'll be covered in ice by September.

There. I just used the same sort of junk science tactics that the AGW zealots have been pushing on us.

Where's my million dollar grant ?

Yes.... in Rappy "logic" a temperature drop in a single day is the exact same thing as years of research around the world by hundreds of scientists.

Does it hurt to be that stupid, I wonder? Probably not, ignorance is bliss, they say.

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, July 13, 2012 4:11 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
set himself up to be one of the wealthiest from the promotion of this global scam.

Global scam, lol. Your open minded-ness on this issue didn't last very long, AU.

It's not personal. It's just war.

One must actually posses a mind in order for it to be open.

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, July 13, 2012 5:54 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
So I have to ask Signy, just what exactly did you contribute to society for your healthy 20% gain?

Absolutely nothing. Just like Romney, Ayn Rand, and the other fine examples that rappy and you hold up!

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Friday, July 13, 2012 6:01 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Do as I say, not as I do. I got it.

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Friday, July 13, 2012 6:11 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Do as I say, not as I do. I got it.

Oh, so now you're telling me there's something wrong with making money???

'Cause in the magic of the free market, I'm sure I created a couple of jobs somewhere by shoving money around from one place to another and keeping some for myself! At least, so sayeth the Wall-Streeters, bankers, and venture capitalists.

I mean, c'mon, you must not believe in your own spiel, because according to you-all I just did a good thing! Aren't you pleased that I did what you've been advocating all along, and WOULD have done if only you'd been smart enough?

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Friday, July 13, 2012 8:35 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh, so now you're telling me there's something wrong with making money???

'Cause in the magic of the free market, I'm sure I created a couple of jobs somewhere by shoving money around from one place to another and keeping some for myself! At least, so sayeth the Wall-Streeters, bankers, and venture capitalists.

I mean, c'mon, you must not believe in your own spiel, because according to you-all I just did a good thing! Aren't you pleased that I did what you've been advocating all along, and WOULD have done if only you'd been smart enough?

Oh I am plenty smart, thank-you very much. Smart enough to not decry stock speculators as leeches on society for doing the same thing. But I guess it is somehow different when you do it because you are, after all, so smart.

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Friday, July 13, 2012 8:40 PM

WISHIMAY

Quote:
Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Quote:
Hey! Wouldn't you like cleaner air, cleaner water?

Hello,

THIS is selling. This is the way to save everything.

Try also selling energy independence, so that no foreign powers can't hold us over a barrel and we no longer need to go to war to secure energy resources.

And whatever alternative energy costs, we can be 100% certain that it will cost less than fossil fuels in the long run.

This is all saleable, it's all common sense, and nobody has to buy Global Warming if they don't want to.

--Anthony

Y'all get sooooo wrapped up in fighting for a side ya can't see the forest for the trees...

30% of the population of Detroit CAN'T EVEN READ. You know what they want??? They want cheaper drugs, and probably legal prostitution.
Maybe half of the babies in that Hospitial in Tennesee born addicted....
You think their parents give a good goddamn about cleaner air or water??OR ENERGY INDEPENDENCE??
How much of our population is in jail at any given time??
Know what they care about??
GETTING OUT OF JAIL. So they can be dumassess and do it again as sooon as possible.
You people even have a clue what any of the riots were about for the last year or so?? THOSE PEOPLE CARED ABOUT MONEY AND FREEDOM FROM TYRANNY.

One out of every four people has a serious mental disorder.
THEY CARE ABOUT NOT GIVING IN TO THE VOICES THAT TELL THEM TO KILL THEIR UPPITY ASS NEIGHBOR WHO CARES MORE ABOUT A ROCK THAT WAS DOOMED FROM THE MOMENT WE LANDED ON IT, THAN A PERSON IN THEIR OWN FRONT YARD.

For every one of you who has done something to try to help, there are hundred schmucks who'd burn down a forest to make one US dollar.

Sit and argue about it in an obscure corner of the internet....That'll show 'em.

I don't doubt that we are royally fucking up the planet.
I do doubt y'alls grasp of the inability to do anything about it.

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Friday, July 13, 2012 11:07 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

High temps today were 15-20 degrees lower the last couple of days than they were a week or so ago. At this rate, we'll be covered in ice by September.

There. I just used the same sort of junk science tactics that the AGW zealots have been pushing on us.

Where's my million dollar grant ?

Yes.... in Rappy "logic" a temperature drop in a single day is the exact same thing as years of research around the world by hundreds of scientists.

Does it hurt to be that stupid, I wonder? Probably not, ignorance is bliss, they say.

Both funny and sad to watch as you harshly react to your holy ox being gored.

There is no Santa Clause either. Hate to break the news to ya, kid.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 5:53 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

NewOld, I just found your post. Copying anything that isn't interactive or not on YouTube is easy. Just right-click on the item, copy the URL and paste it. Unless it's something like a .png, which will only show up as its URL. Just FYI.

KPO, what "other website"? I'm assuming it's not the other version of FFF, because I believe everything shows up in both...did you mean "other forum", or is there some other website Raptor's on that you're on too? Just curious is all.

Story, there is no Rappy "logic", as we all know. He just posts whatever comes into his head (or he's swallowed from FauxNews, etc.) that snarks against whatever anyone else posts...if they're liberal, that is.

Uh, Wish:

Quote:
I do doubt y'alls grasp of the inability to do anything about it.

I do now. Anything we do merely staves off the inevitable, I realize now. It would take the entire world working together to even stave it off for very long, but hopefully even if that happened (which it won't), they wouldn't stave it off long enough to find another planet we can fuck up.

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:15 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

BIGDAMN, so it's not what I "did" that bothers you, it's my "motivation"?
Yeah, whatever.

BTW- if you're so smart, how rich ARE you, exactly?

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:24 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

NIKI et al... the problem isn't "people". Worldwide, most people are aware of the problem and want to do something about it. The problem is that any progress made by a hundred million "people" can be UNDONE by just a few in power.... the President of the USA, some assholes in Congress, the Chinese central committee, or some misguided dictator in Africa or the ME, and the bankers and corporatists who enable them. It is THOSE people... the less than 0.01% who control entire nations and/or the world through dint of guns, money, and media... who are causing the problem.

Focus.

Stop THOSE people, and the problem will be solved.

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 7:38 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
BIGDAMN, so it's not what I "did" that bothers you, it's my "motivation"?
Yeah, whatever.

Damn right it's your motivation. How can you continually rail against the capitalists when you are profiting from the fact that some people will no longer be able to afford food? How do you justify this obviously glaring double standard?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
BTW- if you're so smart, how rich ARE you, exactly?

What a perfectly capitalistic question that is Signy. Welcome to the "dark side", Ms. Rand would be proud.

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 9:08 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

BIGDAMN, your criticism seems somewhat schizophrenic. If you came to me and said Yanno what? I've found there is actually more money to be made in cooperation/ green energy/ sustainable development/ peaceful resolution than conflict/ fossil fuels/ unsustainable development/ war... I don't believe in it but, damn, it "works" in MY world I'd say GREAT! Hop on board! Glad to have you!.

Why the anger? Don't like being hoist on your own petard? You must not like your petard very much, then.

Quote:
How can you continually rail against the capitalists when you are profiting from the fact that some people will no longer be able to afford food?

And if I refuse to profit, will that make food more affordable for everyone? Starvation will only end when food is produced to feed people, NOT to make a profit. The rules of the game would need to be changed. Individual action is often ineffective. As the saying goes, Hitler would never have been stopped by dumpster-diving.

I'm not a liberal, as you might like to pigeonhole anyone to your left. I try to be a realist, and - as a realist- I realize I have to live by YOUR rules, not by the rules I would like to see implemented. Unlike some ppl here I don't live in my head, yanno? I'm ALWAYS banging my ideas against the real world. This investment of mine was an experiment, and a successful one. It showed me that I know what's happening well enough to predict the future.

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 9:33 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

BTW- NIKI< if you have any influence at all in the Occupy movement, can you bring up the point that it HAS to get political?

I know politics is a dirty word, but the world cannot be changed by.. or run on... participatory democracy and consensus-building. It's very nice and homelike and welcoming to all members, but it is ineffective and winds up as a "feel-good" process.

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 11:04 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

High temps today were 15-20 degrees lower the last couple of days than they were a week or so ago. At this rate, we'll be covered in ice by September.

There. I just used the same sort of junk science tactics that the AGW zealots have been pushing on us.

Where's my million dollar grant ?

Yes.... in Rappy "logic" a temperature drop in a single day is the exact same thing as years of research around the world by hundreds of scientists.

Does it hurt to be that stupid, I wonder? Probably not, ignorance is bliss, they say.

Both funny and sad to watch as you harshly react to your holy ox being gored.

There is no Santa Clause either. Hate to break the news to ya, kid.

I react harshly to idiots who insist their belief trump science, yes. Good catch.

And now Science = Santa Claus, in Rappyland.

You even make the zealots look mellow sometimes.

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 11:28 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
And now Science = Santa Claus, in Rappyland.

Indeed. Rappy is utterly confused, not only about the nature of reality (in his view, no such thing exists) but also about the nature of science.

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 5:47 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Not only do I think global climate shift is occurring, I think that along with population increase is going to make food more and more expensive.

So, I put my money where my mouth is (so to speak): I invested in agricultural futures. As of this point, I made a tidy 20% gain.

Proof of the pudding is in the successful prediction. Gotta ask... how many times have rappy and the know-nothings successfully predicted (or even understood) anything?

Those so-called free-market capitalists should hang their heads in shame for their lack of savvy.

Careful with that Signy....

Good for you for putting your money where your mouth is, but if I had a lot invested I'd do research on previous decades and the ebbs and flows. Your logic seems foolproof, that's for sure, but there are just too many variables out there. If the market were to be "logical" than we'd have seen steady gains on gold, silver and agricultural products perpetually. The only bumps in your system then would be the good weather years where more food is made than is needed, but they'll always be evened out by the bad weather years. To this day, I've never read an adiquite explanation to the fluxuation of gas prices, and why gas at the pump is still so damn expensive even though it's only trading for 85 bucks a barrel. Gas drives everything, including produce transport to the stores. If proles like us can't even figure out that variable, the rest is a crap shoot.

I'm glad you're winning now.

My advice would be to take your winnings out now and put them somewhere else you feel is undervalued. Just like the housing market, and anything else that has seen great gains, there will eventually be a correction.

Added to that, never "gamble" with money in the market that you will need in the next year to survive, and never sell when you're down, unless you KNOW for a fact that the stock is dead. Following the first rule will allow you to ride out the storm of the downturns.

In just over 2 years I had turned 13k into 15.6k in my Roth IRA. I thought I was the Wall Street Kid.... So when the DOW dropped from around 15k down to 12k, I thought it would be a good time to invest in a name brand like GE. It topped out at about 42 bucks a share and I figured I was getting a bargain at 27 bucks a share. I also spent just about as much on US Bankcorp, which was giving a 5.25% dividend when savings accounts were giving less than 1%. Shortly after about 8k in those 2 purchases, the bottom fell out and I saw my 13k (plus 2.6k) turn into just over 6k in about 8 months. (This was money I'd already paid taxes on and didn't have a company match on either).

I rode it out. I didn't panic sell because I didn't need the money at the time. By the time I sold both of those stocks, they weren't worth as much as I'd paid for them, but they recovered greatly. My other big winners on the side lines helped push my final outcome to 13.2k. 200 bucks interest on 13k isn't too shabby for 4 years in this climate.

I got lucky.....

I'm done with the market. The only way I'm getting back in is if I ever get a good job with a 50-100% match 401k. That's it....

Mark Cuban said don't play the market. There are tons of people who went to school to learn how to read the market better than you ever will. First pay down your debts. After that, buy things on sale and in bulk and stock up. If you've done all of that and have a little extra money, look at investing in the market as playing the slots.

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:19 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Hey 6IX, thanx for the advice.

I'm gonna sell post-haste; the price of agricultural commodities not only reflects the scarcity of the goods but the amount of money "out there" to buy it. So in tough (deflationary) times, commodities can go down even if ppl are starving.

I have a long, storied history with the stock market! Some ups, some downs, but for all the drama I could have put my $$$ in the bank and come out even. I know peeps at work who make $$$ in stocks, but they watch the market every gorram day, and they trade in puts and calls. I just don't have that kind of time with a disabled daughter, sick hubby, and demanding full-time job.

I read an interesting paper once; it had to do with "what KINDS of investors get the best returns?" I know there are investors who buy stocks for value, other who buy stocks for earnings, others who buy and sell stocks on very technical indicators. I don't recall what kinds of investors they were called, but what I DO remember is that they said the "macroeconomic investor" usually does better. I was very happy to read that because macroeconomics is a hobby of mine.

But I don't invest ALL of our savings, we have money is some very conservative investments (annuities, government paper, insured accounts... that kind of stuff) and I have some "play money". I tend to invest by category (precious metals, real estate, commodities, muni-bonds, foreign currency, foreign bonds, annuities, NOT equities!

) and usually expect to make money in 1-15 years. I guess I'm a buy-and-hold kind of gal... too busy to do otherwise! In the meantime, hubby and I work hard at responsible but not exceptionally well-paid positions, scrimp and save (we live on less than one paycheck and bank the rest), and have managed to put together a retirement for us and a future income for our daughter which we HOPE will last for the rest of her life.

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Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:59 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Glad to hear that you've weathered it money-problems-in-general better than most have Signy.

I LOVED economics classes in College before I dropped out. Macro and Micro were two of my easiest non-computer courses because I just ate up all the info without any problems. (Math real people can use, as opposed to Algebra and Trig and Calculus)

No matter where you put the money, whether it be stocks, the bank, the real-estate market, or a meth-addiction ;), it's all about what the ROI.

I shouldn't say that I'll NEVER play the stocks again, because it was fun when I was making good money and the economy was better. It was like playing Texas Hold'em online!

It's just that I did a cross-over example of what I suggested to you. I took EVERYTHING out of stocks and put it into a severely undervalued house for the neighborhood. It's a GREAT neighborhood. Sure, it still needs some work after nearly a year, but except for the gutters I need to install it's all cosmetic. The mold I removed in the first month automatically raised the value nearly 30k, no matter what I did after that. In our germiphobe world we live in, it takes a REAL SMOKER to go in with a hazmat suit in 95% temps and turn a bad situation like that around.

I figure it would cost me about 1.2k a month to rent this place as is, and I'm not paying that, so add another $12k to money made since I've been here just for that.

Never stay with any investment too long that you have to endure a correction that might not pick up again for a long time. If you can pick up a hidden gem like this house was at absolute and verifiable rock bottom prices, you can stall for a while and take a breath because if any external forces made this investment worth less a year from now it means we're ALL up the creek without a paddle.

I wish you continued luck, and I hope that you never get greedy with it.

You're playing the "smart man's lotto".

You're in the saddle

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Tuesday, July 17, 2012 6:06 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And, in other news of global warming causing food insecurity.....

Migrating pollock could endanger Alaskan fishery, international relations

Quote:
Showing a distinct lack of American patriotism, Alaskan pollock are reacting to climate-changed warmer waters by swimming northward into Russian territory — potentially endangering both the U.S.’s billion-dollar pollock industry and U.S.-Russia relations. Climate-related pollock migration “will be a food security issue and has an enormous potential for political upheaval,” warns Andrew Rosenberg, former deputy director of the National Marine Fisheries Service. Salmon, squid, and mackerel are also moving northward, but the certified-sustainable pollock fishery is arguably of most concern. Estimates hold that anywhere between 10 and 30 percent of Alaskan pollock now rear their heads in Russian territory. If Russians schlep up 20 percent of the available catch, “do we eat it and reduce our catches to manage conservatively?” frets marine-policy professor Keith Criddle. “If we get to the position where Russians are taking 50 percent of the catch, what are we going to do?”

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Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:11 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

For a quick look at drought, I go to the USDA drought monitor as mirrored by the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. Just google "drought monitor" and you'll get the web site.

http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu

SignyM: I swear, if we really knew what was being decided about us in our absence, and how hosed the government is prepared to let us be, we would string them up.

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Tuesday, July 17, 2012 7:45 PM

OONJERAH

I am sure the pollock have no reason to migrate into Russian waters on their own.
Crazy tree-huggers gotta be herding them up there to perpetrate the GW hoax.

(^ A comment too lunatic to qualify as sarcasm.)

As for Kiki's drought map: Nevada & Southern California look normal to me.
But with more than half of the remaining USA in drought ... there could be trouble!

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Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:44 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark

I react harshly to idiots who insist their belief trump science, yes. Good catch.

Oh, the irony.

Quote:

And now Science = Santa Claus, in Rappyland.

You even make the zealots look mellow sometimes.

See, here's the gig. If I believe YOU, and ignore real science, then where's that lead me? Higher taxes, regulation piled on top of regulation, less freedom, govt intervention, redistribution of wealth, and for what ? Virtually zero impact on the climate, no matter what man does.

So, even if your fairy tale WERE true, there's absolutely nothing of any significance that we can DO about it ! All our carbon credits, forced compliance, govt regulations and taxes... won't change a gorram thing when it comes to the climate. Not now, not next year, not in 100 years. So, if YOUR way isn't going to solve the imaginary crisis, and even the climate gurus who fully believe this stuff they're shoveling admit to that much, then what's the gorram point ???

There is none. Just more 'meddling', by the Imperial Federal Alliance, who has duped you and others into buying this ' better worlds' hokum.

Useful idiots.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 18, 2012 3:10 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
If I believe YOU, and ignore real science

What is this 'real science' that you're referring to? Is it right-wing blogs and Daily Mail articles? Would you recognise real scientific literature, if you saw it? Would you recognise propaganda masquerading as 'real science' if you saw it?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:38 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
If I believe YOU, and ignore real science

What is this 'real science' that you're referring to? Is it right-wing blogs and Daily Mail articles? Would you recognise real scientific literature, if you saw it? Would you recognise propaganda masquerading as 'real science' if you saw it?

It's not personal. It's just war.

I noticed you didn't address the points I was making, about how even IF you're right, and man-made global warming IS real, then there's still nothing we can do that'll effectively change much of anything.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:28 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

And I notice you completely ignored my question put directly to you.

I don't have the time or inclination to refute ALL the wrong-headed wingnut things you post Auraptor. But since you specifically ask on this point:

Quote:
even IF you're right, and man-made global warming IS real, then there's still nothing we can do that'll effectively change much of anything.

It's not that complicated. Man-made CO2 is the driver of current climate change. Reduce those emissions, and climate change will be alleviated - to the extent that emissions are reduced. We may not be able to avert climate change completely, but that doesn't mean we should shrug our shoulders and not even try to avert the worst of it.

And what reason have you to suppose that carbon credits (and all other measures) can do nothing to curb emissions? Put a price on carbon and you can bet businesses will factor that in, and change their behaviour accordingly. Also you are assuming that technological innovation cannot possibly play any role in solving the problem in the future. Should we give up on research into new technologies, green technologies, carbon-capture technologies etc - assuming that all those technologies will also have no effect at solving the problem?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:17 AM

America loves a winner!

There's every bit as much compelling evidence that suggests c02 isn't the driver, but may be the RESULT of high temps.

And then there's the claim that , no matter what we do , the amount of impact we can have on undoing what we (allegedly ) have done will amount to a fraction of a degree, in maybe 100 years. Sorry, but spending trillions of dollars for next to no real tangible affect on ANYTHING isn't very wise, imo. Seems we could put that $ to better use, like farming, education, and looking to build better population centers, more inland, while making use of the available resources more wisely.

Quote:
I don't have the time or inclination to refute ALL the wrong-headed wingnut things you post Auraptor

Well then, if you've dismissed my point of view, out of hand, what ever facts, evidence, etc... that I bring to the discussion on the basis that it's " wrong headed " , I kinda fail to see the point of even trying to converse here.

I say let the free market find what ever solutions, if any , are needed. You can't effectively mandate this sort of stuff, from the top down.

And as for your question(s), why should I even bother, if you don't even have the time OR inclination to refute my 'wing-nut' views ?

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:33 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Sig: I have no influence with Occupy, I'm only with OccupyMarin. Most Occupy groups are regional and deal with regional issues now, I think it's mostly OWS that's dealing with national issues. But in California, we recognize the problem and are doing a LOT about sustainable energy sources. But we stand pretty much alone compared to the rest of the country, and the millions of Raptors out there for whom it's a matter of "pry the oil and gas from my cold, dead hands". OUR legislators have kept drilling off our coast, put in place fuel ameliorations which increase our cost at the pump, and are working hard on wind, solar, etc., and here in Marin there's an organization you can get your energy from which is produced entirely "greenly". We would be part of it, but can't afford it until they bring the cost down. Solar is everywhere around here; even the sanitary district's reclamation machines out at the Las Gallinas Wildlife Ponds where I sulky with my dogs is run by SOLAR only. Our sanitation district does curbside pickup of all recyclables, and now compostables as well, but people have to CHOOSE to divide things up into those bins.

It IS people, the millions like Raptor as well as the other millions who, whatever they believe, are too lazy to separate their trash or do anything else to lessen their footprint. Yes, everything you said, but if enough PEOPLE stood up, the government would follow. Until then, governments won't listen, and energy companies are preparing, but won't put much money into it until/unless it becomes a real issue--until then, they've got TONS to spend and spend it on advertising how wonderful "clean coal" (HOW I hate that!), natural gas, etc., are and how we need to lower the cost of gas, drill more, yada yada to keep from buying "foreign oil"--which DOES NOT EXIST. Remember folks, ALL oil is sold on the international market, so even what we produce here goes wherever whoever buys it is (sorry, lousey English).

Meanwhile, all we can do is vote in the right people, and we have and will. Boxer represents our environmental interests really well and will continue to; our Congresswoman is retiring and the new one will be just as good where the environment is concerned (Occupy's chosen candidate lost by a hair, but the other Dem is also an environmental guy, and he'll beat the pants off the Republican they put up, Republicans keep their affiliations mostly on the Q.T. here in Marin). They redistricted, so OUR Congressperson will represent the entire No. Ca. Coast, so I guarantee everything will be done right environmentally here, we'll protect that much. But how much can we do?? We're fighting a damned big machine, and I wouldn't know where to start.

Making our sanitary district entirely solar, by the way, was paid for by the stimulus--that should piss the hell out of some here. Everywhere WE look, the stimulus is at work on our infrastructure...too bad there wasn't more of it and it wasn't used wisely--like on INFRASTRUCTURE--which would have created jobs, and which ignoring it will cause it to be coming down on our heads any day now...hell, it already IS, bridges are falling down, schools don't have enough desks and some have horrible conditions, etc. We haven't done SHIT about infrastructure in ages...but I won't get started on THAT!

As to, by the way, progress requiring people, in the REST of the world both the people and the governments of many countries have recognized the danger and ARE doing something about it...it's mostly America whose government has its head in the sand and its pockets lined by Big Oil.

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Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:35 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Damned computer

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Wednesday, July 18, 2012 12:37 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
And as for your question(s), why should I even bother, if you don't even have the time OR inclination to refute my 'wing-nut' views ?

I don't have time to refute ALL of the wrong, far-right things you post. You post a lot of it. But I specifically replied to one instance of it when you asked. I'm an obliging guy.

Quote:
I say let the free market find what ever solutions, if any , are needed. You can't effectively mandate this sort of stuff, from the top down.

Ah, the free market will sort out everything. Ok. Let's take another example of man's actions hurting the environment: overfishing. There's no way to mandate any kind of regulation to stop overfishing? Government should just throw its hands up and rely on the free market to sort it out? The result - disaster. And your 'solution' for climate change is just the same.

Quote:
Well then, if you've dismissed my point of view, out of hand, what ever facts, evidence etc... that I bring to the discussion

Exactly what facts, or evidence was in your post? I listen to facts/evidence. I ignore partisan opinion-filled rants. Nevertheless I answered it because you asked.

Quote:
And then there's the claim that , no matter what we do , the amount of impact we can have on undoing what we (allegedly ) have done will amount to a fraction of a degree, in maybe 100 years. Sorry, but spending trillions of dollars for next to no real tangible affect

You're just repeating the same point as before, while providing nothing new to back it up (not that you backed it up at all in the first place). I've already explained how this view makes no sense to me - read my last post if you've forgotten my answer. If your view makes no sense, and you can't substantiate it with facts or evidence, there's nothing more I can do.

Quote:
There's every bit as much compelling evidence that suggests c02 isn't the driver, but may be the RESULT of high temps.

Err, the two aren't mutually exclusive. That's what's so scary: CO2 causes warming, and that warming releases more CO2 into the atmosphere - causing more warming... In other words, pretty standard physics suggests that human activity is pushing the earth's climate out of balance and into a vicious circle of runaway warming. This has been theorised for decades, and the theory hasn't changed, and the evidence increasingly bears it out.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:42 PM

America loves a winner!

How then did we have a Medieval warming period, which took place LONG before the industrial revolution ? If C02 is the CAUSE of global warming, that is, then please explain.

And if this vicious cycle , which has occurred before, leads to warmer and warmer temps, then why haven't we joined Venus in really cooking things up by now ?

And Niki, why do you assume I don't recycle ? Or never have ? Is it that you just assume, that since I'm a southern male conservative, that I automatically chuck all my plastics out the window as I drive down the road, AC blasting at full, pedal to the floor of my pick up, complete w/ gun rack and a rebel flag sticker on the window ?

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 18, 2012 2:26 PM

OONJERAH

Arguing With “Global Warming” Idiots =>
http://www.iceagenow.com/Arguing_With_Global_Warming_Idiots.htm

GeoCraft posted a simple ten-question test online, concerning AGW (Anthropogenic
Global Warming). If you familiarize yourself with the correct answers to this quiz,
then you will have the “ammo” to deal with the deceitful criminals behind the
global warming racket.

This Global Warming (un)Reality Quiz should be posted by Rappy, not me.
The Answers in the quiz sound well-researched and scientific. They show that
everything is just fine.

Around the web:
"Most CO2 comes from volcanos."

"The most CO2 comes from the soil & Vegetation 53% and Oceans 44%."

"As for reducing CO2 production, we should be building Nuclear plants as fast
as possible. Cars only produce about 5% of our CO2. Most CO2 comes from power
production. Nuclear Power is the ONLY technology we have today that even has a
chance of providing the massive amounts of reliable 24/7 power we need and is
CO2-free."

"if you look at where most methane comes from, it really isn't from cows. It comes
from swamps and 76% of it actually, another 11% comes from termites, 8 from the
ocean, and finally 8 percent are from animals."
=============

These are the kind of "facts" my Son-in-Law used to spout at me whenever GW came up.
He is a rational, well-informed guy in his opinion.

In my opinion, he is a man uses our natural resources at whim, but has little respect
for nature and its maintenance.

How I spun his arguments: "I am a working man raising a family. I don't have time for
your s--t. I don't want to take an honest look at it, because I don't want to know what
I certainly would find."

And he said: There is no GW. If there was GW, our government would be on it.
If there was GW, humans don't cause it & can do nothing about it.
If there was GW, its effects won't be felt for 100s of years.
He did say, truthfully, that global warming and cooling is part of a tremendously
long, normal, earth cycle.

We don't want to deal with it. We're not gonna look at it.

=========================
I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it. ~Charles R Swindoll

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Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:43 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
If I believe YOU, and ignore real science...

Rappy knows about as much about real science as he does about real world events, which is nothing. And when real science DOES come out, he runs away.

Discussion of the Vostok ice cores and other real science...

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51211&p=2

Since rappy avoids reality at all costs, may I suggest that we leave him to his delusions and work on solving the problem without him?

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Friday, July 20, 2012 12:00 AM

America loves a winner!

Sig

It really bugs you when others don't buy into your religion, huh?

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, July 20, 2012 3:08 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
may I suggest that we leave him to his delusions and work on solving the problem without him?

Hello,

I think our #1 priority should be to create more efficient energy storage. Energy is free, and energy is everywhere. But until we can store energy efficiently, there will always be a need to use heat to make energy. Heat that usually comes from burning fossil fuels or nuclear decay. (We have fusion tech, but it's probably still 50 years from being practical.)

If we can store wind or solar power effectively, then we can endure any periods without sun and wind by using the surplus in lean hours.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

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Friday, July 20, 2012 3:44 AM

America loves a winner!

Energy may be free, but getting it to work for you sure isn't.

Oil companies first must find an oil reserve, drill it, pump it, ship it, refine it, pump it, ship it, and then deliver it to a gas station. Oh, and all that stuff had to be built, first , before it all could be drilled, pumped, shipped, refined, pumped, shipped, and delivered.

Despite what Obama says, it didn't just 'happen'. Someone MADE it happen. Lot of folks, actually, and they have mouths to feed and bills to pay.

So, yeah... energy IS free, if you want to do all that stuff yourself.

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, July 20, 2012 5:44 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
How then did we have a Medieval warming period, which took place LONG before the industrial revolution ? If C02 is the CAUSE of global warming, that is, then please explain.

First of all no one is claiming that CO2 is the only factor in Earth's temperature (solar variation, volcanic activity etc. can also play a big part) - but that it is the main driver of CURRENT global warming. In the past raised temperatures have been caused by changes in Earth's orbit around the sun - but that led to an increase in CO2, which added to the temperature rise and kept the temperatures higher for a long time afterwards.

As for the Medieval warming period, I explained earlier in the thread - some REGIONS of the planet were warmer, but ON THE WHOLE THE PLANET WAS COOLER. This is a common mistake/trick of climate skeptics, to cherry pick regional temperature records, and then apply them to the whole planet.

Quote:
And if this vicious cycle , which has occurred before, leads to warmer and warmer temps, then why haven't we joined Venus in really cooking things up by now ?

Well we only receive about half as much solar heat as Venus, so we'll never have Venus-like conditions here. Understand that CO2 is not a heat source, it warms the planet by trapping the heat that we get from the sun. And if we only get so much of that, then that is a limit on warming. Another limit is the fact that as the earth gets hotter it radiates more heat out into space. So there are limits to how much our temperature can deviate - but that's not to say the temperature changes we are on course to see will not have a drastic effect on our climate.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, July 20, 2012 5:56 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
Despite what Obama says, it didn't just 'happen'.

??

Quote?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Friday, July 20, 2012 9:09 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I think he's snarking about Obama having said small businesses don't get created by one person. Not sure, but that's what it sounds like.

If you recycle, etc., good for you, Raptor...you didn't actually say you DID, just that I was wrong to assume you don't.

It's a useless argument, folks. The more facts you come up with to convince deniers, the more they will close their ears and keep repeating their favorite talking points. It's like the gun argument, with the difference being that whether someone owns a gun or not doesn't result in the extinction of our species, but with the same stubborn adherence to what each person believes.

For simplicity's sake, and for anyone who actually CARES about it, rather than just wants to fight about it, listen to Harry:

http://www.conservation.org/act/get_involved/protect_forests/Pages/def
orestation.aspx?gclid=CO3-go34qLECFYQGRQodTHEA-w

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Friday, July 20, 2012 9:39 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

In just over 2 years I had turned 13k into 15.6k in my Roth IRA. I thought I was the Wall Street Kid.... So when the DOW dropped from around 15k down to 12k, I thought it would be a good time to invest in a name brand like GE. It topped out at about 42 bucks a share and I figured I was getting a bargain at 27 bucks a share. I also spent just about as much on US Bankcorp, which was giving a 5.25% dividend when savings accounts were giving less than 1%. Shortly after about 8k in those 2 purchases, the bottom fell out and I saw my 13k (plus 2.6k) turn into just over 6k in about 8 months. (This was money I'd already paid taxes on and didn't have a company match on either).

I rode it out. I didn't panic sell because I didn't need the money at the time. By the time I sold both of those stocks, they weren't worth as much as I'd paid for them, but they recovered greatly. My other big winners on the side lines helped push my final outcome to 13.2k. 200 bucks interest on 13k isn't too shabby for 4 years in this climate.

I just did the quick math. $200 interest on 13,000 over 4 year is .38 % a year simple interest, 1.5 + a tiny decimal % over the 4 years total. Depending on just what ammount under 1% those savings accounts were paying, you might have been better off overall.

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Friday, July 20, 2012 9:50 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
The lack of rain is affecting Nockamixon State Park. The water fall has stopped falling. Lake level of the lake is dropping as well as the flow of the creek leaving the park which helps feed the Delaware that is a major source of water supply in the Bucks County area to Philadelphia. Here in my home town of New Hope the level of the Delaware River is minus .5 feet. We need rain badly the local farms are just withering away. With corn at just under 3 feet tall something I have never seen before in this area. SteadyDonkey of New Hope, Pennsylvania, has been visiting Nockamixon State Park for the past 30 years and says he’s never seen the water level of Nockamixon Lake as low as it has been this summer. http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-816832?hpt=hp_bn1

Just sayin'...

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Friday, July 20, 2012 1:06 PM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

Quote:
I think he's snarking about Obama having said small businesses don't get created by one person. Not sure, but that's what it sounds like.

Oh, the line about small businesses Obama didn't say, but Romney edited to make it sound as though he had?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, July 23, 2012 11:18 AM

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

So Auraptor now that I've answered all your points, I'd still like to hear an answer to this question:

Quote:
What is this 'real science' that you're referring to? Is it right-wing blogs and Daily Mail articles? Would you recognise real scientific literature, if you saw it? Would you recognise propaganda masquerading as 'real science' if you saw it?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Monday, July 23, 2012 11:33 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
A graduate student studying wildlife biology was visiting Terre Haute, Indiana, where the lake at the Wabashiki Fish and Wildlife Area is suffering from receding water levels. He explains that the lake is a flood plain wetland that is often inundated by flood water from the Wabash River. He says that many lakes do typically dry up to some degree because of the summer, but this lake normally stays full.

With intense heat and little rainfall, he says currently the drought conditions in Terre Haute are extreme. These extreme conditions are evident with the dried lake and the decaying fish within it, he points out. He says as an avid bird watcher, he sees a lot of repercussion with the dried up lake. ‘It is a big disappointment. This lake attracts an impressive variety of birds and other wildlife... but when I walked out into the lake bed the only bird species I saw were a pair of turkey vultures overhead and a few Red-headed Woodpeckers,' he says.

Seeing the lake dried up to this degree almost seemed surreal to him. 'The dry and cracked lake bed resembled another planet,' he says.

A historic drought is taking its toll on wildlife and agriculture across the nation's heartland. In Terre Haute, Indiana, corn crops are withering, wildlife are suffering as important wetland habitat is drying up, and low water levels and burn bans are putting a damper on summer recreation. http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-818610?hpt=hp_bn1

Again, just sayin'...

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Monday, July 23, 2012 7:58 PM