REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Bain Investor: Romney Paid No Taxes for Ten Years

POSTED BY: KWICKO
UPDATED: Friday, August 10, 2012 02:36
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Saturday, August 4, 2012 2:31 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
CNN's Dana Bash, not a fan of Harry Reid's: "But I did speak, I just have to tell you, that I did speak to one source who’s very close to Senator Reid who claims to also know who this Bain investor is that Reid spoke with, and insists that this is a credible person and this person if we knew the name we would understand that they would have the authority and the ability to know about Romney’s tax returns."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1208/02/acd.01.html

Quote:

BASH: It's very personal and it is very Harry Reid. Look, first of all, let me just back up and say you pointed out the interview he gave with the "Huffington Post." Again evidence, it's a friendly outlet. They did it -- he did this very strategically.

In terms of the personal, that is Harry Reid. I mean he -- when he wanted to go after Alan Greenspan, he called him the partisan hack. When he went after President Bush, he called him a liar and a loser. He apologized for the loser part, not for liar.

But this is -- when Harry Reid doesn't like somebody, he goes for the jugular. And that is what he is doing now. He is an old boxer and he still likes to be a political street fighter. He knew full well that he was going to be questioned over and over again on who his source was. And he said -- he's told people close to him who I have spoken today that he didn't care. He's not telling going to tell who his source is.

But I did speak, I just have to tell you, that I did speak to one source who's very close to Senator Reid who claims to also know who this Bain investor is that Reid spoke with, and insists that this is a credible person and this person if we knew the name we would understand that they would have the authority and the ability to know about Romney's tax returns. Whether we'll find it out ever, who knows. But they're doing this on purpose so that this is the discussion.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll



Just because she's no fan of Reid's, it doesn't mean she's not another whore for the libs.

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Saturday, August 4, 2012 2:34 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by PIRATENEWS:
Romney is unelectable and everybody knows it. He lost re-election for governor of Massachusetts. He's a ringer for Obama to help Obama win, and to stop Ron Paul from winning. He wrote Obamacare. He makes too much money to want to be president. Gore and Kerry both took a dive to allow GW Bush to "win", now it's Romney's turn to take a dive.

His dirt goes deeper than paying zero taxes.

Warren Buffet not only paid zero taxes, he paid himself $25-billion personal salary in 1 year, tax free, by robbing his stockholders (government pension funds). He is named as a pedophile in the Franklin coverup. He met with all the World Trade Center CEOs "coincidentally" playing golf at US Air Force Strategic Air command HQ the morning on 9/11 when GW Bush flew in fro mread the goat story. Yet Buffet is quoted every day as the gury who will save America.

Paying zero taxes (or less) is mandatory before beign worshipped as a god by the media mafiya.

Obama's Govt Motors paid zero taxes, then got a $3.5-billion tax refund to move to Commie China.



You forgot GE paid $0 in taxes and they own 49% of NBC/Universal. NBC News is in the tank for Barry and the Demorats.

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Saturday, August 4, 2012 4:15 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
He was also retroactively living in Massachusetts the whole time he wasn't, once he found out that Massachusetts requires its governor to actually have lived there in the years leading up to his running for the office.




So, give up on the "Ten years of no taxes" story and want to change the subject? Did you hear this from the same person who told Reid that tale?


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Saturday, August 4, 2012 1:42 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

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Saturday, August 4, 2012 1:48 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

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Saturday, August 4, 2012 3:59 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I know you only get your "news" from Faux and other right-wing talkers, Jack, so maybe they've never reported it, but the President actually has released a dozen years' of tax returns AND his birth certificate.


Now as you your "rephrase this" comment... Did I say anything that is factually untrue or incorrect?



That's funny, since I choose to spend my "surplus" minimum wage dollars to buy booze rather than Cable TV.

What's even funnier is that my grandma asks me if I've seen this "new" funny commercial on TV and I just humor her even though I've never seen it. I don't even know what movies are coming out now unless my brother tells me about them since I don't even have an HD rig for basic TV on me.

Faux news... no....

The only thing I remember about Faux news is O'Rielly is a self arrogant douche, and Glen Beck would make a lot of good points to people who mattered if he didn't constantly bring GOD into the equation.

As for the last 2-3 years, I know nothing about what Faux News is saying....

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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Sunday, August 5, 2012 1:58 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

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Sunday, August 5, 2012 3:29 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

"someone alleged this so it must be true" scenario
For Geezer's info: Mike did say they weren't "strictly legal", and that's true, not rumor:
Quote:

Romney says he didn’t file as Mass. resident in ’99-’00 ; Candidate amended returns after launching candidacy for governor

Republican gubernatorial hopeful Mitt Romney contradicted his previous public statements yesterday, and said for the first time that he did not file Massachusetts income tax returns for 1999 and 2000 as a resident of this state.

At a news conference, Romney said that he filed as a part-year resident for 1999 and a nonresident for 2000. He amended those returns, claiming Massachusetts resident status, on April 2, a week after he announced he was running for governor of Massachusetts and four days before the state Republican convention that endorsed his candidacy.

The Massachusetts Constitution requires a governor to be a resident for each of the seven years prior to the election. Romney has been embroiled in a controversy over his residency since Wednesday, when the Globe reported his home in Park City, Utah, was classified as his “primary residence” for 1999 through 2001, giving him a $54,000 break on his property taxes.

The Massachusetts Department of Revenue considers an individual a part-year resident if he leaves the state during the year, and has “terminated your residency in Massachusetts to establish a residence outside the state” but still has a source of income here. In 2000, he filed as a nonresident, defined as someone who is not a resident, but again has a source of income in the state. He received an extension for his 2001 return.

Romney’s revelations about his amended returns came one day after he told reporters he had “filed both as a resident of Utah and a resident of Massachusetts” when asked whether he filed taxes as a resident of Massachusetts from 1999 to 2001.

Earlier in the week, he rejected a request by the Globe for copies of his returns with financial information redacted, but his residential status visible. A Romney spokesman insisted at that time the GOP candidate had filed his returns as a Massachusetts resident, but told the Globe reporter, “You’re going to have to take my word for it.”

The issue could be politically damaging. Romney’s candidacy rides heavily on his public image as a clean-cut, honest businessman who brought integrity to the scandal-tarred Winter Olympics, and would do the same for Beacon Hill. However, his handling of the residency questions has been marked by shifting stories and incomplete answers that concealed key facts.

In addition to the revision of his statement on his Massachusetts tax status, Romney originally said he had not seen the property tax bills from Summit County, Utah, that showed he was receiving a deep discount because his primary residence was in Utah. He said the bills were addressed to his wife, Ann, and that she dealt with them. However, records show the bills were sent to him and that he paid the taxes in 1999 and 2000, while his wife paid the 2001 real estate tax.

Romney also said he did not learn he received the tax break given to those with primary residences in Utah until he read about it in the Globe on Wednesday. However, Summit County, Utah, tax assessors sent Romney a “notice of property valuation and tax changes” for each of the three years, spelling out that he was getting a primary resident tax cut on his $3.8 million home. The issue is a hotly debated one in the exclusive resort area, where wealthy Americans have second and third homes.

His status was also reported in an article in the Utah newspaper The Deseret News, in which he said he had established his Park City home as his “primary residence for tax purposes.” The article pointed out that he would not rule out a run for office in Utah, where the residency requirement for governor is five years before the election. Having a permanent residence in Deer Valley beginning in 1999 could qualify Romney for the 2004 gubernatorial election in Utah.

He faced attacks from his political opponents over his credibility yesterday.

“He lied yesterday and he has different story today,” said James Roosevelt, the Democratic Party’s general counsel. “He signed the returns under pains and penalties of perjury. I think he made his intentions quite clear at the time he signed those returns.”

Romney said he had decided to file the amendments to his returns when he returned to Massachusetts in late March and talked to his campaign lawyers about his qualifications for running for governor, including whether he met the residency requirement. He said when the issue of his tax returns was discussed, he realized he should have filed as a resident because his intent while he was in Utah was to return to Massachusetts, which he considers his permanent home.

“I am amending them because it is the right thing to do,” Romney said.

It’s not clear precisely what tax advantage he gained by claiming resident status in his amended return because he would not reveal its contents. And, according to DOR spokesman Tim Connolly, a taxpayer who files as a nonresident in Massachusetts only pays on income derived from sources in this state, while a resident pays taxes on income, no matter the source.

Romney said he had not given much thought to which residential status that his tax accountants at PriceWaterhouseCoopers checked off on his returns filed in Massachusetts. He said Utah law required him to file his return as a resident.

“I was not thinking of running for office,” Romney said. “I was trying to fill our my tax forms as accurately as possible.”

He said he was not aware of the seven-year residency rule to qualify as a candidate for governor until he returned in late March.

Romney’s campaign and the Summit County assessor’s office have blamed the classification of his home as a primary residence on a clerical error. Supervising appraiser Steve Martin said he assessed Romney’s home in April 1999, and suspects he mistakenly typed in a code that designated the land Romney’s home was built on as “primary,” while correctly coding the home as non-primary residence.

County Assessor Barbara Kresser said that her office was rushing to complete its valuation in May of that year, and that someone on her staff - she does not know who and said it could have been her - reconciled the inconsistency by assuming, since Romney was such a prominent figure as CEO of the Olympics, that he was a primary resident.

That assumption circumvented the normal procedure for granting of the 45 percent tax break to primary residents. That procedure calls for homeowners to submit proof of primary residency, such as driver’s license or voting records, and to file a document requesting the designation. http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=78211723

Given it's "under pain and penalty of perjury" and documented, this is an entirely different matter from releasing his tax returns, therefore valid. I don't know how it would go for any of us "reg'lar folk" to do this, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be as easy has found it...or not, I don't know. But it seems pretty clear that, when he thought it would benefit him politically, his "residence" was in Utah; when the benefit politically was in Mass, his "residence" was in Mass and he had to alter a bunch of stuff to make it so.

This man appears to be about as slimy as Tricky Dick, but this time around, nobody gives a real shit. They keep swallowing the shit as it comes out, because "anyone but Obama" is good enough for them. I can only imagine the kind of shit he'd pull if he was elected...!

Oh, and Mike, if you were confused, it's Raptor who only gets his "info" from FauxNews and other right-wing sources. If you weren't confused and just supposing about Six, ignore this. ;o)


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Sunday, August 5, 2012 11:29 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


No confusion on my part, Niki; given the things that Jack routinely reports as "facts" here about Obama, he can only be getting his info from hard-right sources.

Meanwhile, back to Romney...

Quote:

The Larger Question About Romney’s Taxes: Why?


Mitt Romney arrives back stateside and just like that, his refusal to release more than a year or two of tax returns is back in the news. Harry Reid is telling people that a big Bain Capital investor told him that Romney told him that he didn’t pay any taxes for 10 years. OK, that sounds like something out of a junior-high cafeteria, but then again there’s also an easy way for Romney to knock it down. Which again raises the question: What can possibly be in the returns to make them so dicey to release? Lurking behind that question, though, is a related one that has gotten less attention: Why in the world did someone who has been running for president since late 2006 not years ago rid his personal finances of anything that could cause problems in a campaign—Swiss bank accounts, Cayman Island shelters, questionable IRAs, and whichever even more troublesome features lurk in the unreleased returns? After all, Romney is nothing if not a cautious, details-oriented fellow—this is someone who held a videotaped family summit before deciding whether to run for president. Why would he not have fixed his finances as carefully as his coiffure before venturing out onto the stage?

Well, one plausible theory was offered me recently by someone who served alongside Romney in Massachusetts government: Romney may be cautious, but he is also, famously, a penny-pincher. Consider the story that got him in some hot water when he returned from running the Salt Lake City Olympics to run for governor in Massachusetts in 2002. To do so, he first needed to prove his Massachusetts residency, which is why his lawyer played up Romney's attendance at Boston-area business meetings between 1999-2002, claims somewhat at odds with his disavowal of any role at Bain Capital post-1999. But his assertion of having kept Massachusetts as his primary home even while running the Olympics was undermined by the revelation that Romney had claimed a property tax break for his Utah home that was reserved for people who make Utah their primary residence. From the 2002 Boston Globe report (no link):

Though he has described himself as a resident of Massachusetts for the past 28 years, gubernatorial candidate Mitt Romney paid property taxes on his Park City, Utah, home as his “primary residence” for the years 1999, 2000, and 2001, and received a deep discount on hisproperty taxes as a result.
Yesterday, a Romney spokesman said the GOP candidate had not sought the discount, and both the campaign and the county assessor blamed the designation and tax break on a “clerical mistake,” although the assessor also said such an error had never before occurred during her 12 years in office.

The tax records, obtained by the Globe, could intensify the debate over whether Romney meets the residency requirements to be governor of Massachusetts. The Massachusetts Constitution requires that a governor live in this state for seven years prior to election. Because he was taxed on his Utah home as a primary residence for the three years, Romney received a 45 percent discount on his property taxes for each of the three years. He saved a total of $54,000 in taxes on the home, now valued at about $3.8 million. In Utah, nonresidents pay taxes on 100 percent of the assessed value of a home, while residents pay on 55 percent.

Romney oversaw the Winter Olympics during the three years. A Romney campaign aide initially said yesterday that the Republican candidate legitimately received the tax break, but still considered his Belmont home his permanent residence during the three-year period because he intended to return here.

However, late yesterday, the aide, Eric Fehrnstrom, said further investigation by the campaign revealed that a clerical error by the Summit County assessor resulted in Romney’s property being designated his primary residence without his request.

“Mitt was underbilled for his property tax,” Fehrnstrom said. “If, as a result of the county’s error, Mitt has to pay additional taxes, he will do so.”

Fehrnstrom said Romney never noticed the tax break when he received it. He, like most taxpayers, just cursed out loud and wrote the check,” Fehrnstrom said.

In 1999, Romney saw his tax bill dip, although the value of his home increased dramatically after he and his wife had it remodeled and expanded. In 1998, the taxable value for the house was $2,396,500. The assessed value jumped to $3,795,882 the next year, but because it was classified as his primary residence for the first time, Romney only owed taxes on 55 percent of that value—or $2,087,735. His tax bill dropped from $23,068 to $22,599—despite the $1.4 million hike in value.

The issue could be problematic for Romney: It raises questions about why he did not notice, or do anything to correct the error, such as seek to repay the windfall.

It sure does. Why would someone as ambitious as Romney was—who had made clear his intention to follow his father into politics—risk trouble over basic residency questions just for the sake of a tax break on a second home? But consider what else was going on around the same time‚ as the Globe reported in a fine bit of recent digging that was somewhat overlooked on the day of the Aurora, Colo. shootings: Romney was also risking some goodwill and some future political troubles in his handling of his departure from Bain, all for the sake of collecting as big an exit payout as possible. In trying to get to the bottom of what Romney’s role at Bain was between 1999 and 2002—a major question thanks to Romney’s total disavowal of any role in unpalatable dicey deals Bain did in those years—the Globe found that a defining theme of that period was Romney’s aggressive push for a mammoth cut of profits:

Interviews with a half-dozen of Romney’s former partners and associates, as well as public records, show that he was not merely an absentee owner during this period. He signed dozens of company documents, including filings with regulators on a vast array of Bain’s investment entities. And he drove the complex negotiations over his own large severance package, a deal that was critical to the firm’s future without him, according to his former associates.
Indeed, by remaining CEO and sole shareholder, Romney held on to his leverage in the talks that resulted in his generous 10-year retirement package, according to former associates.

“The elephant in the room was not whether Mitt was involved in investment decisions but Mitt’s retention of control of the firm and therefore his ability to extract a huge economic benefit by delaying his giving up of that control,” said one former associate, who, like some other Romney associates, spoke only on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak for the company.

Romney had a lot at stake because Bain had become hugely valuable under his leadership. Romney established Bain Capital in 1984, and in the 15 years that followed, the company had invested $260 million in its 10 largest deals (out of more than 100 during that period) and had reaped a nearly $3 billion return.

So again: Romney stayed on as Bain’s CEO and sole shareholder in the years he was running the Olympics in order to retain the leverage for his big payout—even though it would mean potentially problematic association with Bain deals from those years, down the line. And now the taxes. In today’s New York Times, Michael Graetz, a veteran of George H. W. Bush's administration, helpfully lays out some of the gray-area tax-avoidance that someone in Romney’s position may well have engaged in over the past decade or two, such as skirting gift taxes on the $100 million trust Romney has set up for his sons. Graetz does not address the question of why someone thinking about running for president, with plenty of money to keep his family in fine fettle for decades to come, would engage in this sort of corner-cutting. Well, the answer could be pretty simple: if you're a successful private-equity guy, the bottom-line mentality may hold even when it comes to planning a political ascent. As much as Romney clearly wants to be president, it may not have been his ultimate priority, after all.



http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/105602/the-larger-question-about-romneys
-taxes-why



So we see in Mittens a candidate who wants us to elect him based on his tax policies, his experience in business and his attention to detail... only he doesn't want us to know anything about his own taxes or finances, he doesn't want us to talk about his business, and he's been shown to be serially inattentive in matters of business - not just financial matters, but legal ones as well. He's willing to sign legally binding papers under penalty of perjury without ever reading them, but he thinks he's qualified to run the free world.

He's also shown a propensity for trying to go back and rewrite history, whenever and wherever it's advantageous to him to do so, and to lie about it, often and vociferously.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

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Sunday, August 5, 2012 1:14 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
He's wiling to sign legally binding papers under penalty of perjury without ever reading them, but he thinks he's qualified to run the free world.



This.

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Sunday, August 5, 2012 4:06 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)









"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

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Monday, August 6, 2012 6:19 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Okay, Mike: Prize for first guffaw of the morning, unquestionably!

It blows my mind the sheer VOLUME of evidence Romney has presented quite clearly to everyone of his willingness to lie and cheat, and his embarrassingly blatant showing repeatedly that he not only has nothing in common with 99.9% of Americans, but is unable to even RECOGNIZE that ability or control it, yet nonetheless the right is happily willing to defend him, laud him and hold fast to him. The only thing I can image is a deep-seated, hard and fast HATRED of Obama running through this nation. It doesn't even work to imagine that people support him because Obama hasn't fixed things quickly enough; leaving aside Romney's patent desire to do the Bush-on-steroids thing, things HAVE improved somewhat, and the election of 2010 showed quite clearly that for all their talk of "jobs, jobs, jobs", the Republicans' ACTIONS have cost jobs and have been clearly pointed at their own agenda with no desire to represent the American people. By now they shouldn't be able to IGNORE the handwriting on the wall, so there is no even semi-logical reason for them to back him. People are strange...


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Monday, August 6, 2012 2:42 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And then there's this...




Look it up. Seriously.

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Monday, August 6, 2012 2:46 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)








"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero


"The groin cup and throat protector have about as much ballistic protection as the kneepads I wear when I'm doing a job that requires me to be on my knees." - Troll

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Monday, August 6, 2012 6:16 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)





True story: When Mittens ran for the Senate against Ted Kennedy, he demanded Kennedy release his tax returns to prove he wasn't hiding anything.

When he ran for governor, ALL of the Democrats in the race released multiple years of their tax returns. Mitt refused to release any of his, then later accused the Democratic nominee of having something to hide because she didn't release her HUSBAND'S tax returns.

So it seems disingenuous, if not downright suspicious, for him to now claim that he shouldn't have to release his tax returns, and that we should just take his word for it that he's not hiding anything. This, after he was exposed lying about his place of residence in that gubernatorial race, and was forced to do some quick backtracking, "retroactively" deciding he was really a Massachusetts resident despite filing as a Utah resident the previous three years (and just by pure lucky coincidence, saving more than $54,000 in property tax fees by doing so!)



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

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Monday, August 6, 2012 11:52 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
And then there's this...




Look it up. Seriously.


*hysterics*

-F

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Tuesday, August 7, 2012 3:12 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

"someone alleged this so it must be true" scenario
For Geezer's info: Mike did say they weren't "strictly legal", and that's true, not rumor:
Quote:

Romney says he didn’t file as Mass. resident in ’99-’00 ; Candidate amended returns after launching candidacy for governor ...




So where in the ten year old article you cited from a message board did it say Romney did anything illegal? It would seem that amending returns to change residency status is pretty much accepted practice, or surely Massachusetts (or at least Romney's opponent for governor) would have done something about it.

Retroactively changing where you live for political purposes seems to be pretty common, like Hillary Clinton suddenly becoming a New Yorker in 1999 or Rham Emanuel never having left Chicago.





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Tuesday, August 7, 2012 7:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yeah; Romney seems to take to the idea of doing things "retroactively" to cover his ass like a duck to water. It's amazing how he touts his business accumen yet seems to have little or no responsiblity for any of it. As mentioned before, the error in his filing was by someone else, because he "doesn't read" his tax returns (!!!); anything done by Bain after he "retroactively retired" has no relationship to him, etc. It's so weird this doesn't bother any of his supporters...nor does anything else he has done which clearly shows him as inappropriate to govern a country!

Found this giggle:
Quote:

It reminds me of George Washington's cherry tree chopping parable, only Mitt answers by handing his father a previously prepared legal document stating that he had not chopped down any cherry trees in the past three years.
He's done all of this before, when he was running for governor. A few facts:
Quote:

Utah, like most or all other states, had a two-tier state tax system in which Utah residents paid a lower state tax rate than nonresidents. The amount that [Romney] actually paid the State of Utah was the amount that he would have owed IF he had been a Utah state resident.

When Massachusetts Democrats claimed that Romney was not eligible to run for Governor because he had been a resident of Utah, however, Romney denied that, claiming he had been a resident of Massachusetts all along. He attempted to resolve the Utah state tax issue by paying Utah the difference between the taxes he would have owed Utah as a nonresident and the Utah resident amount he had actually paid Utah.

Utah accepted the payment and did not prosecute him. And, Massachusetts seemed to accept that because it allowed Romney to run for Governor, which, of course, he did. Meanwhile, there had been hearings on the matter--and I assume that Romney testified at those hearings under oath that he had been a Massachusetts resident all along.

So, did Romney commit tax fraud and/or perjury when he first signed his Utah state tax return and paid what a resident of Utah would owe? Or, did he commit perjury when he amended his Utah tax return and claimed he had NOT been a resident of Utah during the time in question?

That aside, does anyone remember that, when asked if he ever paid less than 13% in taxes, Romney said he'd "be happy to go back and look"? Apparently that's not the first time he's used THAT one, either:
Quote:

Asked by The Boston Globe when he was running for Governor of Massachusetts, about why he listed himself as a Utah resident, and not a Massachusetts resident, on his taxes, Mr. Romney told The Globe ten years ago that he would look into it. He would find out just exactly what was in his taxes and he would get back to them on it. Quoting from the The Globe, "...asked whether he received any advantages in Utah by filing as a full-time resident there in 1999 and 2000, Mr Romney said he was not sure but would respond to specific questions in writing". "If you want to say, 'was there any tax benefit anywhere,' you ought to help me understand exactly what that would mean, and I'd be happy to look at it," Romney said. "I will get precisely the answer that you'd like, but you have to tell me exactly what you want, and I'll make sure I get that for you." Still quoting from the The Globe here. But after a reporter submitted written questions to a campaign aide, Romney's spokesman, Eric Fehrnstrom, said that Romney would not be responding because "he values his privacy and his wife's privacy."

What The Boston Globe was trying to get to there, ten years ago, was whether or not Mitt Romney was qualified to be the Governor of Massachusetts. Not in some abstract political sense, but literally qualified. Massachusetts has the oldest, functioning written constitution ... in the entire world. And dating back to the colonial era, the law in Massachusetts says that you have to be a continuous inhabitant of Massachusetts for the seven years immediately prior to your running for Governor, or you can not run for Governor.

So that's another pattern which has worked for him before. The question of his residency is yet another instance when "retroactively" has worked for him, too:
Quote:

In 2002 when Mitt Romney moved back to Massachusetts from Utah to run for Governor in Massachusetts, that residency requirement was really a big problem for him. He maintained publicly until June of that year when he was running, that he had always paid taxes as a Massachusetts resident, so that residency requirement was going to be no problem.

Clearly he met the residency requirement, he'd been paying Massachusetts resident taxes. That's what he said all along, but that June, that year that he was running, June 2002, under pressure from the Democrats in the state and under scrutiny from the Boston press, that story fell apart because it turns out that he had not been paying taxes as a Massachusetts resident. Like he said he did. He had not been paying taxes as a Massachusetts resident, he had been paying taxes as a Utah resident.

Mr. Romney had said that wasn't the case, but he got caught. After he got caught, he admitted yeah, he'd been paying taxes as a Utah resident, BUT he was retroactively now, after the fact, now that he was running for Governor, now going back a few years that he was going to change that ... retroactively.

Mr. Romney had told a local newspaper reporter in Utah that he had declared Utah his primary residence for tax purposes. He had claimed a giant, permanent resident of Utah tax credit on his big Utah house out there. He saved $54,000 in taxes by doing that. He had signed multiple years of tax returns as a "part-time only" or "non-resident" of Massachusetts. But, all of that, he said ... How are you going to explain having done all that? He said it was all other people's mistakes.

Well, Mr. Romney said that must have been a mistake on the reporter's part. Mr. Romney told the Massachusetts State Ballot Commission "I've met with that reporter at least a hundred times over the last three years and I do not recall a specific conversation about my residence in Utah". [June 17, 2002 testimony before MA State Ballot Commission]

That reporter ultimately got a subpoena to appear in Massachusetts and testify as to whether or not Mr. Romney actually told her that, and the paper resisted that subpoena. In terms of the tax break that Mr. Romney got on his Utah house for being a full-time resident in Utah, he blamed a Clerk in the tax assessor's office in Utah, saying he had never asked for that tax break. Somebody just accidentally gave it to him and accidentally saved him $54,000. The County Assessor ended up taking the heat for it, although she also said at the time that such an error had never before occurred during her 12 years in office.

What about all those tax returns for those multiple years that Mr. Romney signed, saying that he wasn't a Massachusetts resident? What's his explanation for that one? His explanation was that he never bothered to read that stuff that he signed.

Mr. Romney ... said he had always trusted his accountants and simply signed and dated the returns. He said he did not notice that a line asking for his domicile was left blank on the Massachusetts returns. "I do not read those or review those before I sign them nor the attached schedules." As you're probably aware, your tax return is one of those things that you submit, you sign and submit, under the penalty of perjury.

This was something that was pointed out to Mr. Romney when he testified before the Massachusetts State Ballot Commission to try to be allowed to run for Governor. "...if I were to hand you an affidavit, Mr. Romney, and at the end of it, typed in your signature, and above your signature, I put "signed under the pains and penalties of perjury," and I said, "Mr. Romney, sign this document," you'd read it first; wouldn't you?" Romney: "If you were to put it in front of me, yes." [Lawyer] "So, you'd sign documents under the pains and penalties of perjury without necessarily reading them; is that your testimony?" Romney: "I have not read the entire Massachusetts tax form, nor the Federal tax form, nor the Utah tax form, and all of them have me sign under pains and penalty to the best of my knowledge and belief, and I do not read the entire form." [-June 18, 2002 testimony before MA State Ballot Commission]

When he finally got called out in June of that year, he admitted that a few months earlier when he decided to run for Governor, earlier that Spring, he had started the process of retroactively going back and changing those returns.

Earlier in the week, [Mr. Romney] rejected a request by the Globe for copies of his returns with financial information redacted, but his residential status visible. A Romney spokesman insisted at that time the GOP candidate had filed his returns as a Massachusetts resident, but told the Globe reporter, "You’re going to have to take my word for it. It's really important what's in those tax returns but I'm not going to show them to you. Trust me about what's in them." After the truth started coming out, Mr. Romney eventually said then to The Globe, just like he's saying to ABC now, that he would get them all the information that they wanted. "sure, sure, I'll get you what you need." But even though he said that to the reporter, face to face, he did not. He absolutely shut them down.

James Roosevelt, Jr. was the top lawyer for the Massachusetts Democratic Party when Mr. Romney's tax returns were part of their challenge about whether or not Mr. Romney was a Massachusetts resident or not. He states:
Quote:

Well, I think it fits with the pattern of trying to rewrite what his beliefs are, what his positions on issues are, and with trying to retroactively rewrite his personal history. And the interesting thing was that in the Ballot Law Commission hearing, we were trying to show what we believed to be true, that he had changed his residency to Utah. He was trying to show that he had maintained continuous ties with Massachusetts while he was in Utah working on the Olympics. And that's why he testified about his continuing business interests in Massachusetts, his continuing return to Massachusetts for board meetings that grew out of his employment at Bain.

He was trying to show that he had family and social ties back to Massachusetts, and really nobody was disputing that. The fact is that he had been very clearly stating one thing about his life. Then he started stating something else, and then he did these statements that he then tried to change latter. Oddly enough, it was always in a way that saved him taxes. Whether it was property taxes, or where he declared himself to have a principle residence in Utah and in Massachusetts, which got him a tax benefit in both places, or income taxes.



I mean, for gawd's sake, he's shown a PATTERN of doing things "retroactively" to suit his needs. Pundits are wondering what's in those tax returns that he doesn't want to show them. One suggested that, given he knew he was going to run for President, why wouldn't he have been very careful to make sure there was nothing in them that would hurt his chances? Another responded that Romney is a notorious penny pincher, so he may not have been able to resist getting all the tax benefits he could, believing that just like other things, he could "retroactively" fix whatever was a problem. After all, it's worked well for him before. So there may well be things in those tax returns which are perfectly legal, but which would be difficult to fix "retroactively" and would be viewed by the American people very negatively. One pundit said if there WAS anything questionable in them, it would make sense that he's more willing to take the heat by not releasing them than have people find out he did something questionable. That makes sense to me.

If this were a Democrat, the right would be screaming from the highest mountain top that he should be prosecuted for fraud. But they defend him, they support him. How stupid can they be...and how stupid are those voting for him, that they want this man running our country!? Blows my mind, it does...

The illogical hatred of Obama must run incredibly deep. If this had been any other candidate, especially a Democratic one, they'd be quick to make the points:

--Romney paid taxes as a Utah resident, getting a huge tax break (tho', given his wealth, to call it "huge" is kind of silly).

--He signed documents to that effect, under penalty of perjury.

--Romney then swore publicly that he'd been a Mass resident all along.

--When proven otherwise, he ADMITTED publicly that he'd lied.

--He blamed his accountant for the "error" and the tax assessor for the tax break.

--He stated he didn't read his tax returns.

--He then went back and changed his residency status to Massachussets.

--Romney claimed he had quit Bain at a certain time.

--When testifying, Romney claimed he'd returned to Mass. to do business as head of Bain.

--He claimed he'd been officially head of Bain, but hadn't been involved in what Bain was DOING.

--He then went back and retroactively retired from Bain.

What insanity! This is the same kind of hubris that had Edwards thinking he could have an affair, even have a child from that affair, yet run for President.

What IS it with these guys, that they think they can get away with crazy stuff like this and still be elected to the highest office in the land? What universe do they live in, and worst of all, will Romney get away with it...again?

Gawd, we are a stupid people...I guess they're right about us, because that's what they count on!


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Wednesday, August 8, 2012 12:41 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Quote:

"someone alleged this so it must be true" scenario
For Geezer's info: Mike did say they weren't "strictly legal", and that's true, not rumor:
Quote:

Romney says he didn’t file as Mass. resident in ’99-’00 ; Candidate amended returns after launching candidacy for governor ...




So where in the ten year old article you cited from a message board did it say Romney did anything illegal? It would seem that amending returns to change residency status is pretty much accepted practice, or surely Massachusetts (or at least Romney's opponent for governor) would have done something about it.

Retroactively changing where you live for political purposes seems to be pretty common, like Hillary Clinton suddenly becoming a New Yorker in 1999 or Rham Emanuel never having left Chicago.





"... but CLINTON!"

Did Hillary go back and "retroactively" change her residency status for the previous several years?


And what was the reaction from the right to Rahm's residency claim?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

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Wednesday, August 8, 2012 2:23 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Did Hillary go back and "retroactively" change her residency status for the previous several years?



Nope. She just picked a state that had lenient residency requirements and that she had a good chance to win in. All perfectly legal, just like Romney.

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Wednesday, August 8, 2012 8:05 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Did Hillary go back and "retroactively" change her residency status for the previous several years?



Nope. She just picked a state that had lenient residency requirements and that she had a good chance to win in. All perfectly legal, just like Romney.




Funny thing is, Massachusetts DOESN'T have lenient residency requirements. Maybe you missed that part. And the part where Romney lied on legal papers he signed "under pain and penalty of perjury."


But awesome job of keeping with the "...but CLINTON!" tack. Funny, coming from someone who bitches so much about others doing such things. ;)




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

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Wednesday, August 8, 2012 10:11 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Funny thing is, Massachusetts DOESN'T have lenient residency requirements. Maybe you missed that part. And the part where Romney lied on legal papers he signed "under pain and penalty of perjury."



Come on, Mike. Even Niki has given up on the "Romney lied" slander.

If he'd actually done something wrong, don't you think that His Democratic opponent for Mass. governor would have pointed it out a decade ago?

Your "logic" seems to be that if you filed your tax return - and signed it "under penalty of perjury" - and then found an additional deduction you could claim, you'd be a liar for filing an amended return and seeking a refund. Doesn't work that way.

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Wednesday, August 8, 2012 3:41 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Funny thing is, Massachusetts DOESN'T have lenient residency requirements. Maybe you missed that part. And the part where Romney lied on legal papers he signed "under pain and penalty of perjury."



Come on, Mike. Even Niki has given up on the "Romney lied" slander.



There's no slander in saying "Romney lied"; that's verifiable fact. He's lied about a multitude of things.

Quote:


If he'd actually done something wrong, don't you think that His Democratic opponent for Mass. governor would have pointed it out a decade ago?



Guess you can't use google, or your memory is failing. Hell, even John Sununu says Romney was in Utah "24/7" for those years. That's probably why he went to the trouble of listing his Utah home as his primary residence.

Quote:


Your "logic" seems to be that if you filed your tax return - and signed it "under penalty of perjury" - and then found an additional deduction you could claim, you'd be a liar for filing an amended return and seeking a refund. Doesn't work that way.




This wasn't some "deduction" that he forgot to take - it was more like a deduction he DID take, that he wasn't entitled to take - UNLESS he was a resident of Utah, and not Massachusetts.

Either he was a Utah resident, which means he was ineligible to run in Massachusetts, or he was a Massachusetts resident working at Bain. Neither paints a great picture of him.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

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Wednesday, August 8, 2012 4:04 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Did Hillary go back and "retroactively" change her residency status for the previous several years?



Nope. She just picked a state that had lenient residency requirements and that she had a good chance to win in. All perfectly legal, just like Romney.



Which is the same as running a company, and then claiming time travel as an out when those actions prove inconvenient.

Oh, but that's right, I'm talking to Geezer, who can't form a sentence without some absurd equivocation.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, August 8, 2012 4:06 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:

But awesome job of keeping with the "...but CLINTON!" tack. Funny, coming from someone who bitches so much about others doing such things. ;)




"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero



See my last post above...


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, August 9, 2012 4:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

If he'd actually done something wrong, don't you think that His Democratic opponent for Mass. governor would have pointed it out a decade ago?
Actually, he did.
Quote:

James Roosevelt, Jr. was the top lawyer for the Massachusetts Democratic Party when Mr. Romney's tax returns were part of their challenge about whether or not Mr. Romney was a Massachusetts resident or not
So much of a stink that he had to testify before the Ballot Commission:
Quote:

This was something that was pointed out to Mr. Romney when he testified before the Massachusetts State Ballot Commission to try to be allowed to run for Governor.
Those are from the article I posted, which you must have missed. If you want the full story:
Quote:

Romney was the Republican gubernatorial frontrunner that year when state elections officials investigated the fact that he received a major tax break on his $3.8 million mansion in Park City, Utah.

That June, the Boston Globe uncovered that Romney got a 45 percent discount on the mansion’s property taxes because the house was listed on local records as his “primary residence” from 1998 to 2000 while he oversaw the Winter Olympics. Had the house been a secondary residence, Romney would have had to pay the full rate.

The total break came to about $54,000, the newspaper reported. But more importantly, it implied Romney wasn’t a Massachusetts resident during those years. The state’s Constitution required candidates for governor to live in Massachusetts for seven years before the election.

Both Romney’s campaign and the tax assessor in Utah blamed a “clerical error” almost immediately and the candidate offered to pay the full rate. But it was enough for his critics to seize on.

Democrats quickly filed a complaint with state elections officials, which prompted an investigation. About two weeks after the story broke, Romney was called before the Massachusetts Ballot Law Commission to prove his residency.

He answered questions under oath for about four hours, most of it spent squaring off with a lawyer representing the Democrats. Romney said his primary residence was a house in Belmont, Mass., which his family had owned since 1971.

But according to a Globe story from the time, the hearing showed the Belmont house was kept in Romney’s wife’s name, he had obtained a Utah drivers license and even openly considered running for office in Utah.

At the end of the hearing, the commission ordered Romney to turn over pages from his 1999 and 2000 tax returns, reports show.

Days after the hearing, the bipartisan commission determined Romney met the qualifications to run for governor. Democrats declined to appeal and Romney went on to win the election. He remained governor until 2007.




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Thursday, August 9, 2012 10:06 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

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Thursday, August 9, 2012 11:26 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:




Or...

Harry Reid is not correct, but whatever Romney is hiding is WORSE than paying no taxes for ten years.

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Friday, August 10, 2012 2:30 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Guess you can't use google, or your memory is failing.



Google appears to be my friend.

From the Commonwealth of Massachusetts Ballot Law Commission:

"The Commission finds, rules and concludes that the Respondent’s testimony was credible in all respects regarding the fact that the Respondent intended Massachusetts to be his domicile from 1971 to the present. The Commission further finds that the Objectors have failed to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the Respondent ever abandoned his Massachusetts domicile and established domicile in Utah. The Commission finds, rules and concludes, as a matter of fact and law, that the Respondent has been a continuous inhabitant of Massachusetts from 1971 to present. The Respondent therefore has met the inhabitancy qualification of the Massachusetts Constitution and is eligible to appear on the ballot as candidate for the office of Governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts."

http://www.scribd.com/doc/99951135/Romney-Ballot-Law-Commission-Decisi
on


All full of interesting facts, like the fact that if you live in Utah for more than half a year, you're required to file a full-time resident tax return, even if you don't intend to move there. Like the fact that Gov. Romney's family continued to live in Mass. while he was in Salt Lake, and that he continued to be a registered voter and vote in Mass.

Also no mention of Bain.

I figure this puts the 'Romney lied about his residency' issue to bed, although you're certainly free to keep making shit up.

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Friday, August 10, 2012 2:36 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
I know you only get your "news" from Faux and other right-wing talkers, Jack, so maybe they've never reported it, but the President actually has released a dozen years' of tax returns AND his birth certificate.



I don't watch the news, Faux or otherwise. I get my news from the RWED.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

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