For Niki: Puppies by BYTEMITE

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

From the article:

Quote:
Dogs go through their developmental stages much more quickly than humans do, attaining their full emotional range by the time they are 4 to 6 months old. Much like a human toddler, a dog has the basic emotions: joy, fear, anger, disgust, excitement, contentment, distress, and even love. A dog does not have, and will not develop, more complex emotions, like guilt, pride, contempt, and shame, however.
You might argue that your dog has shown evidence of feeling guilt. In the usual scenario, you come home and your dog starts slinking around and showing discomfort, and you then find his smelly brown deposit on your kitchen floor. It is natural to conclude that the dog’s actions show a sense of guilt about its transgression. However, this is simply the more basic emotion of fear. The dog has learned that when you appear and his droppings are visible on the floor, bad things happen to him. What you see is the dog’s fear of punishment; he will never feel guilt. He will also never feel shame, so feel free to dress him in that ridiculous party costume.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.

How does my dog "fear" me when she has an accident in the house, when she's never been reprimanded by me for such a thing? She was potty trained with positive reinforcement and repetition, not negativity and shouting, scolding, or rubbing her nose in it. It was pretty easy, too - put her on a schedule, and stick to it. When she finishes eating, and at certain other times of day/night, we go out, and we stay out 'til she's done her business, at which point we go in and she gets treats for a job well done.

So how would she know to feel shame or fear when something goes wrong?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, September 10, 2012 7:29 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Thanx, Byte. Interesting article. Made me smile when I read about them dreaming; while Kochak never shows any indication of dreaming, Tashi REALLY does; his feet twitch, he growls, muffled barks, ears go back and forth, and sometimes he barks loud enough to wake himself up! I know they dream, I've seen it many times, but I've got to admit, Tashi is the most obvious dreamer we've ever had!

Mike, call it "anxiety" rather than fear if you want, but it's real. They are SO tuned in to our vocalizations, vocal tones, body language, facial expressions, they pick up on stuff amazingly. Just your body language when you see a mess is enough to know you're displeased, and once it's happened a few times, they pick up. You might have said "oh shit!" or vocalized anything in a tone of disappointment or frustration; that's enough for your dog to pick it up and connect "shit" to "negative".

With huskies, it's part of pack behavior--probably for most breeds too, but we see SO many similarities between our huskies and wolves it's always amazing. In wolf packs, they are HIGHLY tuned to each other's "messages"--body language, etc. The "slinking around" is actually a show of submission--they don't even connect what might have pissed the alpha off, and the alpha might not even be that pissed off. But showing submission is a way to get reassurance and solidify their place in the heirarchy. And you, of course, are the alpha (or you better well be!).

By the way, Mike, I was hearing last night that they had a Malinois at the bin Laden raid! He and handler apparently walked the perimeter of the compound to be sure there were no unknown enemies to deal with; I just found it interesting, and neat, that it was a Malinois.

The thing about barks also made me smile. Huskies are VERY vocal, and have an amazing range of sounds. Tashi in particular will start ranging from a bark to a long "ruff" to a kind of whine-bark when we're going home; he's frustrated we won't go faster and got breakfast on his mind (which they get when we get home). They're both also VERY vocal as we approach any place they know is a place they'll be let out, either to sulky, run with the bikes or the dog park. It can become virtually impossible to hold a conversation in the park at such times, they get so loud and frequent. When we have Choey's Kiowa (lab/bloodhound mix) with us--who whines constantly, neverendingly!--it truly IS impossible to communicate!

.

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Monday, September 10, 2012 7:37 AM

Yup, the Malinois is now the exclusive dog of the Secret Service and one of the preferred dogs of the U.S. military "war dogs" program. Many police departments are switching over to them as well.

The reason? Size. They have essentially the exact same characteristics and temperament of a German Shepherd, but in a 40-pound package, so they're quite a bit easier to transport and carry, AND they're quite a bit cheaper to house and feed.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, September 10, 2012 7:46 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Huh. I've heard so little about the uses of Malinois, this is news to me. I know many places where shephards' jobs are being taken over by other breeds, labs, retrievers, etc., partly because of their willingness to please, but hadn't heard the Malinois had become such a staple in any particular job.

Also occurred to me after I posted that your Malinois, given their high intelligence, would pick up on any body language, etc., far quicker than many breeds, and it would probably take only one or, at the most, two times for you to react in virtually ANY negative way to poop in the house for him/her to pick up on it.

Interestingly, I have never seen a Malinois in person, and we have ALL kinds of dogs around here, believe me. We have a lot of rescues--particularly greyhounds and pits--and I've seen virtually every breed imaginable (and I'm BIG on recognizing both the breed of a dog AND trying to suss out which breeds went into a cross--with a lot of success, which I enjoy). But never a Malinois--is it that they're so new to the "pet" scene, or is there a reason they don't show up at dog parks/the beach/trails?

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Monday, September 10, 2012 7:47 AM

BYTEMITE

Kwicko: I imagine that eventually researchers may find that dogs have a capacity for guilt, possibly by looking at and comparing human and canine brain activities. So many other emotions were assumed that dogs couldn't feel, and then subsequently shown that dogs DO feel, that I think the trend and the safe bet is to assume they might feel everything.

Still, I think the rest of the article is interesting, and the dog language section is fun.

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Monday, September 10, 2012 2:50 PM

Re: The thread title, "Puppies"

Allow me to present...

PUPPIES!

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Monday, September 10, 2012 3:52 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Re: The thread title, "Puppies"

Allow me to present...

PUPPIES!

OK, now. I never got that on my Rx! My doctor's fired.

Though, I could do with the kitten version just fine.

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Monday, September 10, 2012 3:56 PM

I've found dogs and cats to be a fantastic antidepressant. Seriously.

Taking my dog to work every day is a fantastic method of stress relief, too. It's pretty impossible to have too bad a day when you get to take a break and go play fetch with your pup!

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Tuesday, September 11, 2012 2:49 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:

PUPPIES!

Looks to be the extra strength dosage.

Think I could use that as well.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, September 11, 2012 5:18 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I think we ALL could use that, on a regular basis. I know I want an rx for it--only puppies grow up (too damned soon!), so I'd want a rotating stock...

I wonder how you get the "time release" version?

I had that, just once in my life. My dog got unexpectedly preggers, and I took her and the pups to my mother's house (she adored 'em), put bolsters all around and climbed in. What ecstacy! Puppy kisses, puppy squirms, puppy breath(!!!), little warm bodies all over me squiggling and squirming, exuding "love, love, love, love". Oh, how I'd love to do it regularly...screw meds!

Hey, maybe there's a business in that... providing the ability to be under a pile of puppies for a fee. Hell, if tanning salons could make money... ;o)

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Tuesday, September 11, 2012 5:31 AM

America loves a winner!

I think you're on to an excellent idea.

Puppy snuggles, puppy kisses, playful puppy nips on the nose...

Yeah, definitely worth it.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, September 12, 2012 8:07 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Playful puppy nips EVERYWHERE! Little needle teeth...I love 'em (most of the time!).

The basic fact is, puppies grow up WAY too soon, and dogs die WAY too early...sigh...

Husky puppies are the BEST (that's just personal opinion, your mileage no doubt DOES vary)!

Howdja like to be buried under THIS pile!

(yeah, it's two litters from two dogs tossed together...still, talk about a vision of heaven!)

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Thursday, September 13, 2012 2:28 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:

Husky puppies are the BEST

Hard to disagree w/ that.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, September 13, 2012 9:52 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Nah, I'm pretty sure tons of people would disagree if their own dogs aren't huskies! ALL puppies are adorable, no matter what breed.

But oh gawd, don't get me started...

These are all from Allegro Siberians ( http://www.husky-petlove.com/), which is where my Tashi came from. Their website is gigantic, covered with photos of Sibes...makes me drool just to wander there.

And of course, how can I resist:

My very own Tashi as a pup. They just DON'T stay puppies long enough.

See what you did???

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Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:03 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

...and in the interest of fairness, for Mike:

Malinois puppies.

It's so strange, Raptor, that you can be so "human" on some subjects, and so damned robotic and deliberately blind when it comes to politics. I'll never understand it.

Do you have a pet? I know you're as much a softie as I am when it comes to dogs, so if you've got any photos, please share them.

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Friday, September 14, 2012 2:57 AM

America loves a winner!

Cuteness overload...

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

It's so strange, Raptor, that you can be so "human" on some subjects, and so damned robotic and deliberately blind when it comes to politics. I'll never understand it.

Do you have a pet? I know you're as much a softie as I am when it comes to dogs, so if you've got any photos, please share them.

First, yeah,I've had both dogs and cats, as pets. A chow/shepherd mix, and a full bread Siberian Husky. The first one I grew up with, and we use to affectionately say he and I were puppies together. And we were.

But as for why I so strongly hold to my political vies, I don't really see any disconnect between being a softie in regards to animals and loving freedom. If anything, they kinda go hand in hand.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, September 14, 2012 3:06 AM

HERO

I dropped off my dog for a spa day at her daycare. She gets a day of play followed by a bath and getting her nails done.

When she gets home I'll have five tiny little foster puppies for her to mother. Each is fice-weeks old and weigh's 5-6lbs.

That will put my total at 114 rescued puppies since I started.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Friday, September 14, 2012 7:25 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Sorry, Raptor, I don't see what you write as "loving freedom". But that's another matter.

You had a Sibe?!? I'd love to hear about it--they aren't for the faint of heart, that's for sure, and that's the reason so many end up in rescue. Which of course pisses me off; people see "101 Dalmations" and want a Dalmy, get it and treat it like a "possession", then can't handle how they behave when they don't get enough exercise; they get a husky after watching "Eight Below" or "Snow Dogs" and the same thing happens. People are sometimes very stupid...in so many ways! (I'll stop ranting now.)

Good on you, "Hero", if that's true. I admire anyone who fosters or rescues, given the state of pets of all kinds, what with backyard breeders, puppy mills, etc., etc. I've adopted all kinds of animals, including dogs, but fostering (with huskies in the family) is impossible.

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Friday, September 14, 2012 1:30 PM

America loves a winner!

Yeah, Maximov, or Max. Pretty sure I told ya about him, a time or two. He was the runt of the litter, and a real mamma's dog. Smart and stubborn, but had a knack for gettin' stuck in the laundry room. Silly pup.

Max was mostly black and white, with some reddish brown, open faced, but had what looked like natural eye liner.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, September 15, 2012 3:20 AM