I want (and I honestly believe we need) a more Conservative America. by chrisisall

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I want (and I honestly believe we need) a more Conservative America.

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Monday, September 24, 2012 14:17
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VIEWED: 1613
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Friday, September 21, 2012 1:41 PM

I want to conserve our natural resources, not squander them for the sake of a few bits of oil that will help us delay the inevitable need to develop solar & wind energy.

I want to conserve the creativity & optimism that can make this country great again, not slash funding to schools & potentially waste our youngest & greatest minds.

I want to conserve our internal revenue for the good of this nation, not piss it away on needless war-for-profit that benefits only a few corporations and drives up national debt.

I want to conserve our values of individual freedom, not condone indefinite detention at a whim or attacking women's rights because they control how much sex men get.

I want to conserve our Constitution, not write off or pervert its words into the land of E Blebnista.

I want to conserve the collective intelligence of this nation, not undercut, obscure, or befuddle it with lies and spin and 'reality' TV.

I want to conserve true, honest, fact-based debate, not argue with empty chairs or heads.

I, my friends, am a True Conservative.

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Friday, September 21, 2012 1:53 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I approve ( most ) of this message.

*edit*

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, September 21, 2012 2:08 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I approve of this message.

Thank you. Though it was a bit unexpected.
Does this mean we agree on the concepts, if not the means?
My intention here was to explore the similarities in our different views, and maybe blur the hard lines that artificially separate us.

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Friday, September 21, 2012 2:55 PM

HERO

We need a more liberal America that embraces new ideas like cutting entitlements, personal responsibility, and securing our borders. We need.new ideas like English speaking mainstream media actually asking the President real questions. We need a new birth of freedom to pass onto our children, born and unborn.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Friday, September 21, 2012 3:50 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
We need a more liberal America that embraces new ideas like cutting entitlements, personal responsibility, and securing our borders. We need.new ideas like English speaking mainstream media actually asking the President real questions. We need a new birth of freedom to pass onto our children, born and unborn.

Thanks Hero, for derailing this thread into the absurd & oblique, truly your specialty.

*Non-sequitur, your facts are un-co-ordinated.*

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Friday, September 21, 2012 4:08 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
We need a more liberal America that embraces new ideas like cutting entitlements, personal responsibility, and securing our borders. We need.new ideas like English speaking mainstream media actually asking the President real questions. We need a new birth of freedom to pass onto our children, born and unborn.

Thanks Hero, for derailing this thread into the absurd & oblique, truly your specialty.

*Non-sequitur, your facts are un-co-ordinated.*

Seems "Hero" here was trying to show you how absurd your premise is.

In other words, he doesn't believe conservatives believe in any of those things you listed.

And of course, he's got a point; modern conservatives DESPISE everything you wrote down. "Conserve? I don't think that word means what you think it means!" "Conserve", to conservatives today, means fuck the planet, use up everything, because god will provide and Jesus wants you richer than fuck. Meek shall inherit the Earth? Fine - we'll make sure all they've got left is DIRT!

THAT is the conservative position today. And that's why Rappy and "Hero" call themselves conservatives. They hate anything which is aimed at conservation.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, September 21, 2012 4:24 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I want to conserve our natural resources, not squander them for the sake of a few bits of oil that will help us delay the inevitable need to develop solar & wind energy.

Solar and wind will never replace the power we derive from coal and oil. I think it's imperative that we save our lands from wanton desecration and pollution, but that doesn't have to mean abandoning our ability to make use of such natural resources.

Quote:
I want to conserve the creativity & optimism that can make this country great again, not slash funding to schools & potentially waste our youngest & greatest minds.

I don't believe anyone is for 'slashing' funding for schools. I would prefer to see the monies which ARE going to education be better spent, and teachers and the school admins held more accountable.

Quote:

I want to conserve our internal revenue for the good of this nation, not piss it away on needless war-for-profit that benefits only a few corporations and drives up national debt.

That's a mixed bag, to be sure. Dunno if there's ever been a war in which NO ONE profited. I don't buy that wars are started FOR PROFIT, but it is inevitable, that when war breaks out, only certain concerns are in a position to meet the needs as they are required.

Quote:

I want to conserve our values of individual freedom, not condone indefinite detention at a whim or attacking women's rights because they control how much sex men get.

'Indefinite detention ' ? I guess that's open to discussion. Not real sure where you're going w/ this one, but if you'd like to see an end to the war on drugs, for example, and the destruction that comes along w/ it, count me in. And who is 'attacking woman's rights' ?? Let's not get carried away as to what someone's RIGHTS are here. Wants and rights are NOT the same thing.

Quote:

I want to conserve our Constitution, not write off or pervert its words into the land of E Blebnista.

Hell yeah. ( I think )

Quote:

I want to conserve the collective intelligence of this nation, not undercut, obscure, or befuddle it with lies and spin and 'reality' TV.

Ain't that the truth ! We get Honey Boo Boo, but no Firefly ?

Quote:

I want to conserve true, honest, fact-based debate, not argue with empty chairs or heads.

I, my friends, am a True Conservative.

Yep and Yep.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, September 21, 2012 4:33 PM

CHRISISALL

Oh well, I tried.

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Friday, September 21, 2012 4:40 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Oh well, I tried.

Better to have tried than...well, not.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, September 21, 2012 4:44 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I want to conserve our natural resources, not squander them for the sake of a few bits of oil that will help us delay the inevitable need to develop solar & wind energy.

Noting, please, that solar and wind energy are not currently capable of replacing fossil fuels in fulfilling our energy needs. (ETA: Even with all the voluntary conservation possible). Moving ahead rapidly on alternative energy sources is a good thing, but we're going to need to rely on coal and oil for a while, or get mighty cold and not drive very far.

Quote:
I want to conserve the creativity & optimism that can make this country great again, not slash funding to schools & potentially waste our youngest & greatest minds.

Assuming that funding is the problem. Here's cost per pupil in constant 2009 dollars for the period 1961 to 2008.

http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=66

Per this, my schooling through high school (1955-67) cost about 1/3 as much, in 2009 dollars, as it would now. I feel I got plenty of creativity and optimism, plus enough education to give me a good income and secure retirement. I bet you feel you got a pretty good education too, and it was probably for less than now. Maybe throwing money at the problems of education isn't the only answer.

Quote:
I want to conserve our internal revenue for the good of this nation, not piss it away on needless war-for-profit that benefits only a few corporations and drives up national debt.

Sounds fine to me. ETA: While I like democracy, trying to spread it to places it won't grow now might not be the best idea. I'm beginning to think that folks have to decide to be ready for democracy before it can take root.

Quote:
I want to conserve our values of individual freedom, not condone indefinite detention at a whim or attacking women's rights because they control how much sex men get.

Yep. And lose the drones and let gay folks get married.

Quote:
I want to conserve our Constitution, not write off or pervert its words into the land of E Blebnista.

Unfortunately, the Constitution has gotten to be like the Bible. Anyone can find 'justification' for most anything they want to do. The Commerce Clause comes to mind. I'd say time for a new Constitutional Convention, except the guys who'd run it would screw it up even more.

Quote:
I want to conserve the collective intelligence of this nation, not undercut, obscure, or befuddle it with lies and spin and 'reality' TV.

But then you run up against that pesky First Amendment (see 'conserve our Constitution' above). What you have to hope (and try to educate for) is that the people will see through the spin.

Quote:
I want to conserve true, honest, fact-based debate, not argue with empty chairs or heads.

So no more RWED?

Quote:
I, my friends, am a True Conservative.

An interesting guy to talk to, anyway.

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Friday, September 21, 2012 5:19 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

So no more RWED?

At 800 hrs, DESTROY RWED, DESTROY RWED navigational system, DESTROY Geezer re-entry ability, DESTROY!!

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Saturday, September 22, 2012 2:18 AM

DREAMTROVE

I thought it was touching. I think that in the sense the Ron Paul is a true conservative, chrisisall is close. For a brief second I thought Hero was going to be touching with his liberalism, but then he didn't really introduce new ideas.

Quote:
I want to conserve our natural resources, not squander them for the sake of a few bits of oil that will help us delay the inevitable need to develop solar & wind energy.

it doesn't look like chris said "wind and solar can currently replace all our energy needs." I just generally agree with the sentiment, I think Teddy Roosevelt would have as well. I could say "add algae biodiesel and you can do it" but I think chris' statement stands: "conservation before consumption" that was the message, and that is a conservative message.

Quote:
I want to conserve the creativity & optimism that can make this country great again, not slash funding to schools & potentially waste our youngest & greatest minds.

I was less sure of this. It starts out good, but funding for public schools is not really a conservative concept, as it leads to state run thinking, but then again, chris didn't say "public schools" maybe he supports vouchers and charter schools. I think that the funding should stay if there's actual choice.

Quote:
I want to conserve our internal revenue for the good of this nation, not piss it away on needless war-for-profit that benefits only a few corporations and drives up national debt.

I thought this was a solidly conservative sentiment, and I agree with it. Sure, war isn't the only thing driving up the debt, but it's a big one. Bailouts are also a big one. And yes, it seems only a couple corporations ever benefit from the new trillionaire spending under the last two presidents, and those corporations tend to be not really free market players.

Quote:
I want to conserve our values of individual freedom, not condone indefinite detention at a whim or attacking women's rights because they control how much sex men get.

This was solidly conservative sentiment for at least the first half. Second half I'm less sure of. I agree with "I don't know who's attacking women's rights" but I find my support for where the concept has gone is limited. People should have the right to vote, etc., less sure on the right to kill. As for getting sex, I'd like more, so maybe in that regards I'm a liberal

Quote:

I want to conserve our Constitution, not write off or pervert its words into the land of E Blebnista.

This is a solidly conservative sentiment.

Quote:
I want to conserve the collective intelligence of this nation, not undercut, obscure, or befuddle it with lies and spin and 'reality' TV.

as is this

Quote:

I want to conserve true, honest, fact-based debate, not argue with empty chairs or heads.

and this

I think chris does about as well by conservative values as anyone who has run for office in the last god knows how many year. more so than mitt romney.
I'm nominating chris for our upcoming primary.

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Saturday, September 22, 2012 6:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Chris, I think you did well. Even if people don't get it, the effort is worthwhile. Personally, I think the point here is that "conservative" is bandied about so much that it's lost it's TRUE meaning, which I think you elucidated quite eloquently.

That's what I feel is being missed: That there's a huge difference between "conservative" as it's used today and what "conserve" really MEANS. That's why I call myself a "conservationist" instead, tho' that's been bandied around so badly that IT'S pretty much lost it's original meaning, too. We need a new word, I guess.

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Saturday, September 22, 2012 6:38 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

It won't be liked, but I'll offer my own version as to the difference between "conserving" and "conservative" as so many call themselves today:

"Conservatives" want to use the environment for the sake of a few bits of oil/coal/natural gas that will only help us delay the inevitable need to alternative energies.

"Conservatives" want to slash funding to schools & potentially waste our youngest & greatest minds rather than conserve creativity and education and make them better.

"Conservatives" want to squander our internal revenue on wars that benefits only a few corporations and drive up national debt rather than conserve our internal revenue.

"Conservatives" want to conserve our values of individual freedom except when it comes to things like indefinite detention, controlling women's choices and things with which they don't agree.

"Conservatives" say they want to conserve our Constitution, while writing off or perverting its words into the land of E Blebnista.

"Conservatives" want to undercut the collective intelligence of this nation by obscuring and/or befuddling it with lies and spin and 'reality' TV.

"Conservatives" don't want to conserve true, honest, fact-based debate, but would prefer to argue with empty chairs, and fabricated talking points.

That's why they're not really conservative.

Just my OPINION.

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Saturday, September 22, 2012 8:19 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I want to conserve our natural resources, not squander them for the sake of a few bits of oil that will help us delay the inevitable need to develop solar & wind energy.

We absolutely should. We should have started a decade ago. Even if we can't replace all the power generated by petroleum we can replace a lot and see the US become energy independent.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:I want to conserve the creativity & optimism that can make this country great again, not slash funding to schools & potentially waste our youngest & greatest minds.

Step one is to get rid of standardized tests. Teach children how to learn and how to think and they will.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:I want to conserve our internal revenue for the good of this nation, not piss it away on needless war-for-profit that benefits only a few corporations and drives up national debt.

We have to start trimming the defense budget, find ways to lower the cost of programs like medicare and medicaid and we have to eliminate the thinking that we need big corporations more than they need us.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:I want to conserve our values of individual freedom, not condone indefinite detention at a whim or attacking women's rights because they control how much sex men get.

We need to vote people into office that will uphold these principles. Its the only way to do it.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:I want to conserve our Constitution, not write off or pervert its words into the land of E Blebnista.

This goes along with the last item. Nether side owns this issue.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:I want to conserve the collective intelligence of this nation, not undercut, obscure, or befuddle it with lies and spin and 'reality' TV.

That would be nice. Any idea how to do it?

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:I want to conserve true, honest, fact-based debate, not argue with empty chairs or heads.

We all need to start demanding these things. If we don't they will not happen.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:I, my friends, am a True Conservative.

I would say more an idealist.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, September 22, 2012 9:31 AM

CHRISISALL

Thanks, M52.

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Monday, September 24, 2012 11:01 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I agree, too, Nick. And I would say "idealist" too, unfortunately, because I don't see any of those "wants" ever coming to fruition, certainly not in my time.

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Monday, September 24, 2012 11:23 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I agree, too, Nick. And I would say "idealist" too, unfortunately, because I don't see any of those "wants" ever coming to fruition, certainly not in my time.

When the Vulcans make first contact, all will get better...

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Monday, September 24, 2012 1:20 PM

OONJERAH

I can't see the Vulcans wasting their attention, time & profit on such a hopelessly
irrational race as we. Were I they, I'd only want us to stay out of the way, & not
move any farther into space.
But yeah ... we do need a babysitter.

When the Pleiadians dropped their crazies off on Earth (20,000 years ago?), they
supposedly intended to provide some care & guidance. Guess we couldn't be guided
back then, either.

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Monday, September 24, 2012 2:17 PM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Oh well, I tried.

Your going against type. Better to sit back and live off the effort of others. For liberals there is no try, there is only do not.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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