REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The white working class and Obama

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Thursday, September 27, 2012 18:47
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3792
PAGE 1 of 1

Monday, September 24, 2012 7:29 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


We're always hearing about how Obama struggles with this particular demographic, but see the graph in this article, it turns out that the white working class in most of the country likes Obama just fine:

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/09/most-country-white-worki
ng-class-likes-president-obama-just-fine

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 24, 2012 7:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

The massive shift of the Southern vote from Democratic to Republican is, by far, the biggest electoral change in the past few decades, and it often overwhelms national survey results. It's something you should always at least think about when you read an article about big changes in the electorate: is this really a national change, or is it mostly driven by changes in the South?
Bingo.

Kinda surprised me Obama's more popular in the Midwest, as I always got the impression they were more Republican leaning. Of course, the "West" includes Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, etc., so that probably skews the WEST's numbers... While I understand the biggest problem is the South, I think it also varies quite a bit from state to state. Nonetheless, yes, the South skews us--in more ways than just elections!


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 24, 2012 7:53 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
We're always hearing about how Obama struggles with this particular demographic, but see the graph in this article, it turns out that the white working class in most of the country likes Obama just fine:




But in three of the four geographic segments listed, they like Romney more.

Looks like Mother Jones is spinning this article for the folks who only read the headline.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 24, 2012 8:03 AM

STORYMARK


And if the whole country was white, Romney would be doing fine.

But it's not.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum


"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 24, 2012 9:43 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
We're always hearing about how Obama struggles with this particular demographic, but see the graph in this article, it turns out that the white working class in most of the country likes Obama just fine:




But in three of the four geographic segments listed, they like Romney more.

Looks like Mother Jones is spinning this article for the folks who only read the headline.



You're funny Geezer - you're saying that from looking at the first 3 graphs the white working class doesn't 'like Obama just fine'? Even though he's liked roughly as well as Romney, if you add up the %s?

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 24, 2012 9:47 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

And if the whole country was white, Romney would be doing fine.

If the whole country was white, there'd be much less voting based on race. I don't know that that would benefit Romney and the GOP.

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, September 24, 2012 10:18 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And if you look at the national polls, Romney's either up by 1 point or down by 1.


Kind of a shame we don't elect our leaders by popular vote, huh?

Because when you look at the swing states, Obama is up by 5 to 9 points in every one of them save one (New Hampshire, where he's down by 2 last I heard).





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 2:38 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
You're funny Geezer - you're saying that from looking at the first 3 graphs the white working class doesn't 'like Obama just fine'? Even though he's liked roughly as well as Romney, if you add up the %s?



No. I'm saying that in three of the four regions shown, more of the white working class likes Romney. That's because in three of the four regions shown, more people said they liked Romney than said they liked Obama.

The article also notes that nationwide, more white working class people like Romney, by 48% to 35%, so if you add up the %, Obama is 13% behind in this demographic.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 3:07 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I think you've completely missed the point of the article. Or you're just playing dumb. The title of the article, which you call 'spun' begins: 'In Most of the Country...'

What do you think the article means by that?

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 3:25 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
I think you've completely missed the point of the article. Or you're just playing dumb. The title of the article, which you call 'spun' begins: 'In Most of the Country...'

What do you think the article means by that?




I believe I get the point of the article, that there are a fair number of white working class people in the country who like Obama. I am not disputing this. I'm just noting that, per the data with the article, more white working class people in the country like Romney. In three of the four regions shown, they like Romney more, and overall they like him more by 13%.

I call this article "spun" because the writer seems to be trying to make the case that being behind in this demographic by 13% nationwide is a good thing.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 4:50 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

I believe I get the point of the article, that there are a fair number of white working class people in the country who like Obama.


No, that's not it. It's that the national statistics are skewed by the polls from the South, and if you discount them Obama is pretty much tied with Romney (who's actually white). Hence 'doing just fine' in most of the country.

This is all summed up at the beginning of the article, it surprises me that you could have missed it:

Quote:

John Sides points out an important result from a recent survey of the white working class: Democrats in general, and Obama in particular, don't really have a huge "white working class problem." What they have is a huge Southern problem.

The chart on the right tells the story...



Yet again you've rushed to dismiss something from a liberal source as 'spun' for no good reason. And tomorrow you'll be lecturing other people about being biased...

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 6:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

I think you've completely missed the point of the article.
Quote:

I call this article "spun" because the writer seems to be trying to make the case that being behind in this demographic by 13% nationwide is a good thing.

There you go. There will never be logic applied; there will always only be "the left is wrong".



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 11:06 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Off topic, I know, but am I the only person who's noticed how far off the rails Geezer has gone, especially after Romney's '47%' debacle? He's not even pretending to be rational anymore, let alone reasonable. And non-partisan went out the window way before that.

Us liberals/ progressives/ left-ish people are grown-up enough to heap all sorts of criticism on Obama, and even vote third party (green, anyone?). Despite being repeatedly characterized as thinking of him as our 'messiah' by the intellectual brilliance that is little rappy (and I'm being ironic here) I have yet to find evidence that any of us do that.

But for all the right-wing-nuts' claims to being wise, fair, factual, and non-partisan, I have yet to find any evidence that they are anything other than rabid, unthinking reflexive protoplasm barely outside of PN's crazyland zip code. There is something so skewed in their neurons that ordinary reality-testing doesn't seem to apply. It's a mystery.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 11:25 AM

STORYMARK


Absolutely.

Also worth noting that they become too "busy" to post here every time their boys screw up really good. Funny, that.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum


"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:23 PM

PENGUIN


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Off topic, I know, but am I the only person who's noticed how far off the rails Geezer has gone, especially after Romney's '47%' debacle? He's not even pretending to be rational anymore, let alone reasonable. And non-partisan went out the window way before that.

Us liberals/ progressives/ left-ish people are grown-up enough to heap all sorts of criticism on Obama, and even vote third party (green, anyone?). Despite being repeatedly characterized as thinking of him as our 'messiah' by the intellectual brilliance that is little rappy (and I'm being ironic here) I have yet to find evidence that any of us do that.

But for all the right-wing-nuts' claims to being wise, fair, factual, and non-partisan, I have yet to find any evidence that they are anything other than rabid, unthinking reflexive protoplasm barely outside of PN's crazyland zip code. There is something so skewed in their neurons that ordinary reality-testing doesn't seem to apply. It's a mystery.



Well said.





King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 2:20 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Off topic, I know, but am I the only person who's noticed how far off the rails Geezer has gone, especially after Romney's '47%' debacle? He's not even pretending to be rational anymore, let alone reasonable. And non-partisan went out the window way before that.




It seems he's coming apart faster than his beloved nutbag wing of the Teabaglican party!

Quote:


Us liberals/ progressives/ left-ish people are grown-up enough to heap all sorts of criticism on Obama, and even vote third party (green, anyone?). Despite being repeatedly characterized as thinking of him as our 'messiah' by the intellectual brilliance that is little rappy (and I'm being ironic here) I have yet to find evidence that any of us do that.




I think I've been quite open about the fact that I won't be voting for Mr. Obama. I'm actually one of those vaunted "undecideds" you hear so much about - I can't decide between Gary Johnson and Jill Stein, but neither major party will be getting my vote. I've never been one for viewing political leaders as "messiahs", sorry. Not even the Mittsiah.

Quote:


But for all the right-wing-nuts' claims to being wise, fair, factual, and non-partisan, I have yet to find any evidence that they are anything other than rabid, unthinking reflexive protoplasm barely outside of PN's crazyland zip code. There is something so skewed in their neurons that ordinary reality-testing doesn't seem to apply. It's a mystery.




Hear hear! And it seems their Obama Derangement Syndrome is only ramping up with the upcoming election and Mitt's headlong rush to disembowel himself and commit ritual seppuku on the campaign trail.

And it can't be helping them when their leaders - Rush, O'Reilly, and others - are now saying that if Mitt the Twit can lose this election against an unpopular President with a weak economy, then conservatism itself might be dead, or at least the Republican party is finished.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 2:23 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Absolutely.

Also worth noting that they become too "busy" to post here every time their boys screw up really good. Funny, that.




No kidding - not a word in defense of their candidate, but they can't bring themselves to criticize him, either, so instead they suddenly become too busy with their lives to pay any attention at all to politics.

And if they DO respond, it's along the lines of "nyuh-UH! Did not! Never happened! It's all lies!"



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 2:39 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


The segment of voters that Romney should be strongest with, Obama looks to have a fighting chance, except in the South.

That, coupled with Obama's commanding leads among women, blacks, latinos, students, and a fighting chance among the elderly ... and it's not looking great for the GOP.

There's a very good chance that the Dems will hold the Senate (about an 80% likelihood, according to Nate Silver); Vegas bookmakers agree, and say Obama's all but a sure thing.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 4:43 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

I believe I get the point of the article, that there are a fair number of white working class people in the country who like Obama.


No, that's not it. It's that the national statistics are skewed by the polls from the South, and if you discount them Obama is pretty much tied with Romney (who's actually white). Hence 'doing just fine' in most of the country.



The article refers specifically to "white working people". It states that the poll it's based on shows that Romney has a nationwide 48% to 35% lead among this demographic. So although Obama is "doing just fine" among white working people, he's doing less well than Romney is nationwide. There is no way to contradict this. Saying it's skewed due to the larger percentage of folks in the South with whom Romney is "doing just fine" ignores the fact that he's also "doing just fine" more than Obama in 3 of four regions of the country, not just the South, and nationwide is "doing just fine" with 13% more white working people.

Quote:

This is all summed up at the beginning of the article, it surprises me that you could have missed it:

Quote:

John Sides points out an important result from a recent survey of the white working class: Democrats in general, and Obama in particular, don't really have a huge "white working class problem." What they have is a huge Southern problem.

The chart on the right tells the story...



Yet again you've rushed to dismiss something from a liberal source as 'spun' for no good reason. And tomorrow you'll be lecturing other people about being biased...



Didn't miss anything. Dismissing the fact that Obama isn't "doing just fine" with white working people in the South ignores the fact that if white working voters in the South vote as they've polled, they'll throw the white working vote to Romney.

The "chart on the right" still shows that in three of four regions of the country, Romney is "doing just fine" with more white working people than Obama is. In some places it's not much better and in one it's much better. Still, overall, 48% to 35% is 13% better in the white working demographic.

You seem to think that I'm waving the flag for Romney. Nothing could be farther from the truth. However, the Mother Jones article is spun to make it seem that Obama has a lot of support among the white working class when the very statistics it is based on show that he has 13% less support among that demographic than Romney. That's all I'm saying. If you have any data that shows Obama having more support among white working people nationwide, let me know.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 4:55 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Off topic, I know, but am I the only person who's noticed how far off the rails Geezer has gone, especially after Romney's '47%' debacle? He's not even pretending to be rational anymore, let alone reasonable. And non-partisan went out the window way before that.

Us liberals/ progressives/ left-ish people are grown-up enough to heap all sorts of criticism on Obama, and even vote third party (green, anyone?). Despite being repeatedly characterized as thinking of him as our 'messiah' by the intellectual brilliance that is little rappy (and I'm being ironic here) I have yet to find evidence that any of us do that.

But for all the right-wing-nuts' claims to being wise, fair, factual, and non-partisan, I have yet to find any evidence that they are anything other than rabid, unthinking reflexive protoplasm barely outside of PN's crazyland zip code. There is something so skewed in their neurons that ordinary reality-testing doesn't seem to apply. It's a mystery.



Oh, Kiki, you haven't been paying attention, again, if you think I'd vote for either Romney or Obama.

Also note that although you mention that "Us liberals/ progressives/ left-ish people are grown-up enough to heap all sorts of criticism on Obama...", I don't see many threads originated by you "liberals/ progressives/ left-ish people" that actually do that. Sometimes when someone else mentions, say, drone strikes, a few folks will agree that, yes, that's kind'a bad, but seldom see you, for example, call out Obama on something. And certainly nothing like the criticism heaped on Romney.

I'm just trying to point out to the "rabid, unthinking reflexive protoplasm" on the Left that they fall into the same trap as the "rabid, unthinking reflexive protoplasm" on the Right.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 5:11 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

Also note that although you mention that "Us liberals/ progressives/ left-ish people are grown-up enough to heap all sorts of criticism on Obama...", I don't see many threads originated by you "liberals/ progressives/ left-ish people" that actually do that. Sometimes when someone else mentions, say, drone strikes, a few folks will agree that, yes, that's kind'a bad, but seldom see you, for example, call out Obama on something. And certainly nothing like the criticism heaped on Romney.




Funny, but when I've pointed out that you never criticize anyone on the right, your standard response has always been along the lines of "I don't need to, because that's what you all are for." (Not a direct quote, but a paraphrasing.)

So if I don't start a dozen threads a day criticizing Obama, I can rest assured that you and the rest of the right-wingnuts around here will cover it for me.






"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 5:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Geezer,

Really? REALLY?

Have you read none of the criticism we've directed at Obama? All the repeated, pointed, topical and FACTUAL criticism has dissolved in your mind like so much cotton candy?


What shall I attribute that to? Poor eyesight? Blind partisanship? Alzheimer's? Intentional misrepresentation of what you know to be true?

You tell me.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:07 PM

MAL4PREZ


After the twisty-turning geezer did defending Mittney's "airplane window" idiocy (among other recent threads), there's not a soul in the world who'd ever believe this doof is anything like a neutral party. It is a bit fascinating to watch him try to make the claim, kind of like watching Faux say they are so very "fair and balanced". Or like watching a naked emperor walk down the street as if he's got velvet clothes covering his ugly, flabby body.

Geezer, honey, everyone knows. We are not blind. You're fooling no one but yourself, which makes you nothing but a fool of your own making. Honestly, I'm a little embarrassed for you.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:01 AM

FREMDFIRMA



S'funny...

Mind you I make no bones about partisanship, but I ain't *defending* no one, especially not that gutless pissant Obama.
Rather, I have a full foaming rage on at a pack of feckless curs who have come out not only in opposition to everything humane and decent in this world, but to everything that ever made civilization, and specifically this country, worth the freakin bother.

I think I will add to my villainous purge to-do list, lopping off the thumbs of their enablers and supporters and chucking them in a reserve limited to stone age conditions - s'what they WANT, is it not ?

-F

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 26, 2012 8:47 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Have you read none of the criticism we've directed at Obama?

It doesn't count unless you start threads specifically devoted to it, apparently.

My take on the whole Geezer political allegiance question, is that he can be a 'centrist' if he wants to. One thing he's not though is impartial, and balanced. He may not identify republican, but like your typical right-winger he has a very strong anti-liberal bias, and so holds the two sides to two different standards (see his response to Kiki above), and uses equivalence to excuse the side he hates less. Maybe that's what it takes to stay a 'centrist' these days.

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:07 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

The article refers specifically to "white working people".

No, and this is important: it refers specifically to the white workings class in most of the country. In other words, 'not including the South'. Why else do you think the words 'In most of the country' are there? Those graphs of the four regions together make up the whole of the geographical USA. The article states clearly that Obama is 'doing just fine' IF you take away the numbers from the South poll. Why you are attempting to refute this by repeatedly INCLUDING the numbers from the South poll is beyond me. That's staggering illogicality.

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 26, 2012 10:27 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
No, and this is important: it refers specifically to the white workings class in most of the country. In other words, 'not including the South'. Why else do you think the words 'In most of the country' are there? Those graphs of the four regions together make up the whole of the geographical USA. The article states clearly that Obama is 'doing just fine' IF you take away the numbers from the South poll. Why you are attempting to refute this by repeatedly INCLUDING the numbers from the South poll is beyond me. That's staggering illogicality.



Is Obama only president for certain geographical regions of the country?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 26, 2012 11:12 AM

STORYMARK


Cue BDN to pose a completely nonsensical question that makes it clear he didn't bother to read the thread...


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum


"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 26, 2012 11:14 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Is Obama only president for certain geographical regions of the country?


No, hence the article saying he has 'a huge Southern problem'. But since the Southern poll is so glaringly different to the rest of the country one might legitimately ask if that's down to anything Obama has done, or whether it may simply be a reflection of certain biases and prejudices in that particular part of the country.

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 26, 2012 3:34 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Is Obama only president for certain geographical regions of the country?


No, hence the article saying he has 'a huge Southern problem'. But since the Southern poll is so glaringly different to the rest of the country one might legitimately ask if that's down to anything Obama has done, or whether it may simply be a reflection of certain biases and prejudices in that particular part of the country.



So if you discount the unfavorable data, regardless of reason, you achieve the result you want. Is that about right?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 26, 2012 3:58 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


No, if you split the data up then you see more clearly where Obama's problem lies. It's not 'discounting data', it's separating two different types of data that tell two quite different stories.

The reality is staring you in the face: the South is not typical of the whole country, and skews the national data. Did you see the graphs?

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:22 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
No, and this is important: it refers specifically to the white workings class in most of the country. In other words, 'not including the South'. Why else do you think the words 'In most of the country' are there? Those graphs of the four regions together make up the whole of the geographical USA. The article states clearly that Obama is 'doing just fine' IF you take away the numbers from the South poll. Why you are attempting to refute this by repeatedly INCLUDING the numbers from the South poll is beyond me. That's staggering illogicality.



Is Obama only president for certain geographical regions of the country?





Wait - are you suggesting that you shouldn't just write off certain groups of the population? Say, perhaps, some 47% of the people?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:26 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Was it suggested anywhere that Romney *isn't* doing "just fine" among working-class whites?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 4:12 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

The article refers specifically to "white working people".

No, and this is important: it refers specifically to the white workings class in most of the country. In other words, 'not including the South'. Why else do you think the words 'In most of the country' are there? Those graphs of the four regions together make up the whole of the geographical USA. The article states clearly that Obama is 'doing just fine' IF you take away the numbers from the South poll. Why you are attempting to refute this by repeatedly INCLUDING the numbers from the South poll is beyond me. That's staggering illogicality.



The problem with this is that the election is held in the entire country, not just the West, North-east, and Mid-west. It' sort of like saying "Candidate A is doing just fine with both female Jewish retirees and Muslims in Montana". That may be true, but it ignores that there are probably a lot more female Jewish retirees or Muslims other places in the country.

And even if you take away the South, Romney is doing better in two of the three remaining regions. While it's true he does not have the overwhelming lead he has in the South, it appears to be in the 4% to 5% range. So even in the "most of the country" that excludes the South, Obama may be "doing just fine" with the White working class, but Romney is still doing better.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 4:31 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

The problem with this is that the election is held in the entire country, not just the West, North-east, and Mid-west.

As I told BDN, it's not saying that Obama doesn't have a white working class problem, it's saying that if you look closely you can reasonably say that problem is confined to the South. It's a much more pinpoint diagnosis, and a much more useful one.

Quote:

While it's true he does not have the overwhelming lead he has in the South, it appears to be in the 4% to 5% range.

I don't know where you got this from.

Quote:

So even in the "most of the country" that excludes the South, Obama may be "doing just fine" with the White working class, but Romney is still doing better.

Perhaps, but since Romney is actually white we might expect a slight advantage. If Romney had 45% of the black high-earner vote, say, we would surely say that he was doing very well in that demographic, despite trailing. Even much less than 45% might be described as doing fine...

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 5:04 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Wait - are you suggesting that you shouldn't just write off certain groups of the population? Say, perhaps, some 47% of the people?


That is what I am trying to ascertain if KPO is suggesting. Do try to keep up.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 5:06 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Was it suggested anywhere that Romney *isn't* doing "just fine" among working-class whites?


This thread is about Obama's popularity among the white working class. Do try to keep up.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 5:30 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Was it suggested anywhere that Romney *isn't* doing "just fine" among working-class whites?


This thread is about Obama's popularity among the white working class. Do try to keep up.




That's what I thought it was about, but *somebody* keeps trying to bring up that Romney's doing just fine...

Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

But in three of the four geographic segments listed, they like Romney more.

Looks like Mother Jones is spinning this article for the folks who only read the headline.



Do try to keep up.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yes, Kiki, and well said. As I've said numerous times, I used to like and respect Geezer and have been confused as to why he's changed into a purely partisan, angry, unpleasant hack. So there's definitely been change...enough so that it's made me wonder if Geezer's been someone's sickpuppy all along, reeling us in by being nice, then turning around. Probably not, but it HAS left me puzzled, the change I've seen.

Just speaking for myself by the way, I have put up a number of threads dissing Obama or the Dems over time. Not many, no question about that, but I have, so that puts the lie to that. On the other hand, I don't recall ever seeing a thread put up by any of our righties that's at all negative about anything or anyone on the right. Just sayin'.

Also been quite happy to diss Fast & Furious, the Obama ad about the "cancer" patient, and numerous other things. As well as having said from the beginning that Obama didn't disappoint me nearly as much as others, since I feared from the start that he would be too much of a compromiser and wouldn't be able to work the system to get things done, which he has. Nor will I be voting for him, I'll be voting Green. Admittedly that's because in CA, he doesn't need my vote, but if he were some kind of "messiah", surely I'd vote for him anyway.

As to the rest of the argument, the title of the article in question is "In Most of the Country, the White Working Class Likes President Obama Just Fine" and it starts right out saying "Democrats in general, and Obama in particular, don't really have a huge "white working class problem." What they have is a huge Southern problem." The point of the article is that, while Obama trails Romney in all areas, he doesn't do so by that MUCH, except in the South. Not sure why the righties can't comprehend that simple fact...or is it that they just have to keep harping on the fact that Obama trails Romney nationwide AMONG WHITE WORKING CLASS VOTERS. Nobody has argued that, but the point of the article seems to have been totally lost among some.

And of course this is just white working class voters. If you count all the various other sections of the electorate, it's a whole different story. According to recent polls (for whatever they're worth), Obama leads Romney not just nationally, but among women, Blacks, Latinos and the young--and in almost all swing states. Just for some perspective, if we want to talk about something which DOESN'T have to do with the article in question (which some seem to want to).


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 8:06 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:

Yes, Kiki, and well said. As I've said numerous times, I used to like and respect Geezer and have been confused as to why he's changed into a purely partisan, angry, unpleasant hack. So there's definitely been change...enough so that it's made me wonder if Geezer's been someone's sickpuppy all along, reeling us in by being nice, then turning around. Probably not, but it HAS left me puzzled, the change I've seen.



Geezer has become so obsessed with Story and me, and the idea that we're somehow a "team", that he's gone over the edge and descended straight into troll country.


Quote:

Just speaking for myself by the way, I have put up a number of threads dissing Obama or the Dems over time. Not many, no question about that, but I have, so that puts the lie to that. On the other hand, I don't recall ever seeing a thread put up by any of our righties that's at all negative about anything or anyone on the right. Just sayin'.


For the record:

I have huge problems with Obama's stance on indefinitely detention, hit-list assassinations (especially of U.S. citizens without any due process), keeping Gitmo open, and military tribunals, among other issues.

Now, for the record, can someone please elucidate the key differences between Obama and Romney on these issues?

I also note for the record that I have no intention of voting for Obama. If it's a choice between the two of them, then sure, I hope Obama beats Romney. But my vote in Deep-Red Texas isn't going to help him, but it CAN help a third-party candidate and help send a clear message, so I'll be voting for Gary Johnson or Jill Stein, and I honestly don't yet know which one.

Quote:


Also been quite happy to diss Fast & Furious, the Obama ad about the "cancer" patient, and numerous other things. As well as having said from the beginning that Obama didn't disappoint me nearly as much as others, since I feared from the start that he would be too much of a compromiser and wouldn't be able to work the system to get things done, which he has. Nor will I be voting for him, I'll be voting Green. Admittedly that's because in CA, he doesn't need my vote, but if he were some kind of "messiah", surely I'd vote for him anyway.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but was the "cancer ad" really an Obama ad? Was it put out by the campaign, paid for by them, and did it include the "I'm Barack Obama, and I approve this message" tagline that's legally required?

Also, did that ad ever actually run as a paid advertisement? I was under the impression that it was leaked to the media who played it over and over and over, so it never really had to be aired as an actual commercial. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but it was definitely brought up during the controversy about it.

Quote:


As to the rest of the argument, the title of the article in question is "In Most of the Country, the White Working Class Likes President Obama Just Fine" and it starts right out saying "Democrats in general, and Obama in particular, don't really have a huge "white working class problem." What they have is a huge Southern problem." The point of the article is that, while Obama trails Romney in all areas, he doesn't do so by that MUCH, except in the South. Not sure why the righties can't comprehend that simple fact...or is it that they just have to keep harping on the fact that Obama trails Romney nationwide AMONG WHITE WORKING CLASS VOTERS. Nobody has argued that, but the point of the article seems to have been totally lost among some.

And of course this is just white working class voters. If you count all the various other sections of the electorate, it's a whole different story. According to recent polls (for whatever they're worth), Obama leads Romney not just nationally, but among women, Blacks, Latinos and the young--and in almost all swing states. Just for some perspective, if we want to talk about something which DOESN'T have to do with the article in question (which some seem to want to).



Exactly right - Obama isn't leading among working class white voters, but it wasn't suggested that he was. The article makes the point that he is holding his own among perhaps Romney's strongest demographic.





"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:29 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Was it suggested anywhere that Romney *isn't* doing "just fine" among working-class whites?


This thread is about Obama's popularity among the white working class. Do try to keep up.




That's what I thought it was about, but *somebody* keeps trying to bring up that Romney's doing just fine...

Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

But in three of the four geographic segments listed, they like Romney more.

Looks like Mother Jones is spinning this article for the folks who only read the headline.



Do try to keep up.


And you have never brought up Romney or Bush or Ryan or Palin et al in a thread about Obama? Is this the case you are presently making or is this your usual do as I say not as I do schtick?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 9:40 AM

STORYMARK


You're either deliberately not following - or you've had a massive head trauma.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum


"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:03 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Was it suggested anywhere that Romney *isn't* doing "just fine" among working-class whites?


This thread is about Obama's popularity among the white working class. Do try to keep up.




That's what I thought it was about, but *somebody* keeps trying to bring up that Romney's doing just fine...

Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:

But in three of the four geographic segments listed, they like Romney more.

Looks like Mother Jones is spinning this article for the folks who only read the headline.



Do try to keep up.


And you have never brought up Romney or Bush or Ryan or Palin et al in a thread about Obama? Is this the case you are presently making or is this your usual do as I say not as I do schtick?




So if someone else brings up Romney in the thread, I'm not allowed to respond directly to their point?

You Republicans are a testy bunch. That partially explains why you call yourselves "teabaggers"... ;)

Did I say I had a problem with Geezer bringing up Romney's standing in the polls? No; you brought that up.

Again, do try to keep up.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:26 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Meanwhile, back to the original debate...or is that possible?? Are you two (+) just having too much fun

In which case, I'll join in:


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 10:44 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So if someone else brings up Romney in the thread, I'm not allowed to respond directly to their point?

You Republicans are a testy bunch. That partially explains why you call yourselves "teabaggers"... ;)

Did I say I had a problem with Geezer bringing up Romney's standing in the polls? No; you brought that up.

Again, do try to keep up.



It is too hard to try keeping up when you continually change the course.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:05 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
So if someone else brings up Romney in the thread, I'm not allowed to respond directly to their point?

You Republicans are a testy bunch. That partially explains why you call yourselves "teabaggers"... ;)

Did I say I had a problem with Geezer bringing up Romney's standing in the polls? No; you brought that up.

Again, do try to keep up.



It is too hard to try keeping up when you continually change the course.




In other words, you've got nothing, and you aren't mentally agile enough to keep up with the conversation.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 11:18 AM

STORYMARK


BigDamnTroll is what he is. Pretty obvious at this point. As I said before,it's either deliberate, or he's been hit by a brick.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum


"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:42 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
BigDamnTroll is what he is. Pretty obvious at this point. As I said before,it's either deliberate, or he's been hit by a brick.




I'm not sure - he was never very bright to begin with...



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 1:51 PM

STORYMARK


A valid point...


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum


"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 27, 2012 6:47 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Yeah, Geezer was way off about you "two". It's just too damn easy sometimes.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
White Woman Gets Murdered, Race Baiters Most Affected
Thu, November 28, 2024 07:40 - 20 posts
Alex Jones makes himself look an even bigger Dickhead than Piers Morgan on live TV (and that takes some doing, I can tell you).
Thu, November 28, 2024 07:29 - 81 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Thu, November 28, 2024 07:11 - 7514 posts
Hollywood exposes themselves as the phony whores they are
Thu, November 28, 2024 07:02 - 46 posts
Elections; 2024
Thu, November 28, 2024 06:03 - 4846 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Thu, November 28, 2024 05:58 - 4776 posts
Trump, convicted of 34 felonies
Thu, November 28, 2024 03:56 - 44 posts
Thread of Trump Appointments / Other Changes of Scenery...
Thu, November 28, 2024 03:51 - 48 posts
Where Will The American Exodus Go?
Thu, November 28, 2024 03:25 - 1 posts
What's wrong with conspiracy theories
Wed, November 27, 2024 17:06 - 21 posts
Ellen Page is a Dude Now
Wed, November 27, 2024 17:05 - 238 posts
Bald F*ck MAGICALLY "Fixes" Del Rio Migrant Invasion... By Releasing All Of Them Into The U.S.
Wed, November 27, 2024 17:03 - 41 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL