REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Mass fatalities and religious considerations act

POSTED BY: CANTTAKESKY
UPDATED: Sunday, October 7, 2012 13:56
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Friday, October 5, 2012 10:15 AM

CANTTAKESKY


http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/why-is-the-us-government-planning-fo
r-mass-fatalities-8956
/


Quote:

October 5, 2012
Santiago, Chile

You just can’t make this stuff up.

Late last week, a bill HR 6566 was introduced on the floor of the US House of Representatives. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I read it.

The bill is entitled the “Mass Fatality Planning and Religious Considerations Act,” and its stated purpose is “[to] amend the Homeland Security Act of 2002 to require the Administrator of the Federal Emergency Management Agency to provide guidance and coordination for mass fatality planning…”

Hmmmm. Homeland Security. FEMA. Sounds like a fun party.

The bill was introduced a week ago, but it took the US Government Printing Office until this morning to actually make the text available to the public.

It turns out that my weeklong wait was for nothing. The bill itself is just a handful of paragraphs that merely reiterates the title… that the cracker jack team over at FEMA should be prepared to respond to mass fatalities in the United States, and to account for religious burial differences.

This is just one of those things that makes the stomach turn: the people who brought us the National Defense Authorization Act (authorizing the detention of US citizens on US soil) now deem it prudent to prepare for mass fatalities on US soil…

Moreover, they’re outsourcing it to one of the most failed government agencies in history.

FEMA, as you may recall, is the same organization that couldn’t get bottles of water delivered to New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina… and held up hundreds of seasoned volunteer emergency service workers from entering the city for several days of mandatory sexual harassment training.

I doubt a Soviet boot factory could have botched the job more miserably than that. I can’t wait to see these guys in charge of whatever ‘mass fatality’ event the government is preparing for.

It boggles the mind that this agency still exists… and more importantly, why with so many other problems to deal with, ‘mass fatalities’ is even a topic of discussion at the Capitol.

Whether well-intentioned or not, this strange little bill is yet another telling indication of how the political elite thinks. At best, they’re incompetent and out of touch. At worst, they’re dangerous and sociopathic.

Either way, this ought to be a reminder of what representative democracy really means in the Land of the Free today… and why it’s so important to take control of your freedom.

These people are not the solution. They’re the problem. The real solutions lie within. If you’re not free, you can get free. It just takes a little bit of effort, a reshuffling of priorities, and some rational thinking. More to follow.



Text of bill here. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr6566/text


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Friday, October 5, 2012 10:54 AM

STORYMARK


Okay, so FEMA botched the last major catastrophe.... and now we're angry because they're planning ahead should another happen?


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum


"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, October 5, 2012 1:14 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Okay, so FEMA botched the last major catastrophe.... and now we're angry because they're planning ahead should another happen?

They planned ahead for the last one too, but botched it anyway. So does it make sense for them to get an even bigger gig than that last one?

Plus... creepy. Like making a plan in event that we need to resort to eating each other. Creepy.


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Friday, October 5, 2012 1:48 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Okay, so FEMA botched the last major catastrophe.... and now we're angry because they're planning ahead should another happen?

They planned ahead for the last one too, but botched it anyway. So does it make sense for them to get an even bigger gig than that last one?

Plus... creepy. Like making a plan in event that we need to resort to eating each other. Creepy.




I don't find it creepy at all. In the light of recent environmental catastrophes such as tsunamis, earthquake et al and the capacity for mass casualties due to the existence of WMD, it would seem to me to be appropriate contigency planning.

Many agencies already make preparations for such events, I know the emergency services and hospitals would have plans. What was learnt here in the light of Black Saturday bushfires is the need for co-ordination of services through a centralised agency. Although individual agencies had their plans, they didn't co-ordinate well and that resulted in deaths.

Body disposal, as unpleasant as it is to plan for, is an essential part of planning, as the asian tsunami demonstrated, the health risks posed by large number of corpses is enormous. I'm not sure I'd be be concerned about religion in a time like that, but I guess it is the US!!!

So I wonder what you find creepy about contigency planning??

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Friday, October 5, 2012 1:51 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

I don't find it creepy at all. In the light of recent environmental catastrophes such as tsunamis, earthquake et al and the capacity for mass casualties due to the existence of WMD, it would seem to me to be appropriate contigency planning.



My thinking, exactly.


Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum


"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, October 5, 2012 2:53 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
So I wonder what you find creepy about contigency planning??

Whenever governments make plans, they like to try them out.


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Friday, October 5, 2012 3:17 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
So I wonder what you find creepy about contigency planning??

Whenever governments make plans, they like to try them out.




Of course, that is why we nuked a couple of out own cities...right?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, October 5, 2012 4:04 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
So I wonder what you find creepy about contigency planning??

Whenever governments make plans, they like to try them out.




That's a highly paranoid point of view. Do you think everyone in government is a psychopathic lunatic, or just the ones in charge?

Workplaces have safety plans, fire drills, evacuations procedures. We have contingency plans for worst case scenarios. Extrapolating your reasoning, this would mean that management in my workplace are simply itching to try them and will orchestrate events ie burn down their own facilities because people really do behave like Batman villans all of the time.

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Friday, October 5, 2012 4:39 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Workplaces have safety plans, fire drills, evacuations procedures.


Workplace accidents, fires, and evacuations are not entirely uncommon. It's about probability. You plan for somewhat probable occurrences. You don't plan for Skynet starting a global thermonuclear war, for example.

When you start planning for Skynet starting a global thermonuclear war, it says Skynet's Judgment Day may be more probable than previously thought.

It makes me wonder one of two possibilities.
1) There is new information about Skynet that we don't know about.
2) Someone may be planning a global thermonuclear war.


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Friday, October 5, 2012 4:56 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Again, mass fatalities are not uncommon in this world of ours, both due to natural and made made events.

230,000 people were killed in the 2004 tsuanami
20,000 + in Japan in 2011

Pandemics have, do and will continue to appear in the world and have caused catastrophic reductions in populations, even as recently as the 20th century, estimates for the death toll for the spanish flu vary from 20 -100 million deaths.

And there exist WMD, not always just in the hands of insane or sane governments, but most definitely with smaller terrorist groups with every possibility of them being unleashed on a population in the future.

This is not sci fi but the world we live in, and plans need to be made.

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Friday, October 5, 2012 5:05 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Again, mass fatalities are not uncommon in this world of ours,

It's never been uncommon.

The question is, why now? We've coped all our histories with mass fatalities without such plans. What's different now? Is there a change in probability that we don't know about?

That's what makes it creepy.

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Friday, October 5, 2012 5:24 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


The idea of a plan is to minimise the impact. Contigency planning is a relatively new concept, and it does save lives which should be a good thing, surely.

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 11:36 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
So I wonder what you find creepy about contigency planning??

Whenever governments make plans, they like to try them out.




Of course, that is why we nuked a couple of out own cities...right?


Everything short of it.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/10/ap-secret-cold-war-tests-st-loui
s-raise-concerns-100312
/
Quote:

ST. LOUIS — Doris Spates was a baby when her father died inexplicably in 1955. She has watched four siblings die of cancer, and she survived cervical cancer.

After learning that the Army conducted secret chemical testing in her impoverished St. Louis neighborhood at the height of the Cold War, she wonders if her own government is to blame.

In the mid-1950s, and again a decade later, the Army used motorized blowers atop a low-income housing high-rise, at schools and from the backs of station wagons to send a potentially dangerous compound into the already-hazy air in predominantly black areas of St. Louis.

Local officials were told at the time that the government was testing a smoke screen that could shield St. Louis from aerial observation in case the Russians attacked.

But in 1994, the government said the tests were part of a biological weapons program and St. Louis was chosen because it bore some resemblance to Russian cities that the U.S. might attack.


Seriously, even a minor investment of time will pull up laundry lists of this shit, and more come to light all the time, which begs two questions...
ONE: Just like with the spying, as it's become obvious that despite regulations, the law, promises, they NEVER did stop not once, not even a bit, so does anyone think even for a moment they stopped these kind of experiments either ?
TWO: As long as it's taken for this stuff to finally come out, as horrible as much of it is...
Good heavens, what are they doing RIGHT NOW that some poor bastards down the line twenty years from now when that comes out are gonna be even more horrified by ?

I mean, given the history - trusting that the Gov has ceased this behavior is like expecting some dickhead busted five times for DUI and currently slugging from a pint bottle WONT try to drive home sloshed, past a certain point there's no credibility to the denial cause their CANT be - wasn't THAT long ago the Gov was swearing up and down that we didn't have a biowarfare program at all, no-way no-how nu-uh, claiming it was all back in the cold war...
Till Philip Zack mass mailed em some of their own Ft Detrick Anthrax, ehe ?
Why on EARTH would you take the word of folks known to lie over a generally *reasonable* suspicion, I ask you ?

-Frem

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 11:44 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
That's a highly paranoid point of view. Do you think everyone in government is a psychopathic lunatic, or just the ones in charge?


Mostly the ones in charge, and I cast doubt on assumption of paranoia when you take a good hard long look at the things THIS Government *has* engaged in, all the while denying it right up to the point where they retroactively authorize it, and then admit they were doing it all along - kinda like the whole wholesale spying thing, and the Patriot Act.

Past behavior as predictor of current and future behavior isn't magical thinking, assuming that a diehard recidivistic establishment would suddenly behave itself with no incentive to do so... is.

That said, I am not against contingency planning per-se, I mean part of my own real-world job kinda revolves around it, but this whole thing here strikes me as odd because...
A - They shoulda ALREADY HAD a plan for this, and if they didn't it's the utmost of unforgiveable incompetence.
B - Why now, what has suddenly made this a priority when it wasn't any kind of one before even in real emergencies ?
C - The notion of FEMA cleaning up its act without a massive turnover of personnel involved here is laughable.

So I liken this to watching someone pour a white, powdery substance on a mirror, using a razor blade to sort it into lines and snorting it with a tube - sure, there COULD be an innocent explaination, but it sure looks like snorting coke to me.
Maybe that was occams razor there, ehe ?

-Frem
ETA: PS - I do think calling it at this point might be a bit far, but being SUSPICIOUS, that I think is entirely a reasonable assessment.

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 1:05 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I think using occam's razor, you might just assume they were developing a contigency plan.

I believe in the old truism, that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. What I see with the US is that it has had too much power for too long, and that includes military and economic power. I look forward to the day where I can watch a hollywood blockbuster without holding a sick bag for the American exceptionalist 'we will prevail because we are the greatest civilisation in human history' moment.

The problem is that you got to big for your boots, and that includes your government and your corporations. I agree they have done a lot of bad shit.

That being said, you can wear your shit covered glasses when it comes to everything. Sometimes governments (and corporations) are trying to do the right thing, maybe doing it cack handedly, but trying nevertheless to make things better. After all, not everyone in government is an insane, power hungry meglomaniac trying to take over the world. Even those at the top of the pile. Personally, I don't see Obama like that. I see him as being quite earnest, almost naive, but its just that compromise gets in front of ideals when you govern.

so that is how I see the US, too powerful, too self obsessed, too prone to hubris, but on the demented government scale, still a long way off places like China and Russia. Here's hoping it stays that way.

So there is being suspicious, I'd say everything your military does needs to be viewed in this way, and then there is paranoid, which is how I find this thread. Coz I can't see where the problem lies.

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 1:46 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Coz I can't see where the problem lies.

Didn't say it was a problem. Said it was creepy. As in suspicious and eye-brow-raising.

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 1:50 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I have a bushfire evacuation plan. Do you find that creepy?

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Sunday, October 7, 2012 1:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.




Of all the government-type things one should be concerned about - indefinite detention, drone killings, massive spying and collection of intelligence, the continued existence of the USPATRIOT Act - worrying about plans for dealing with mass casualties b/c the government tends to want to try its plans out - seems pretty crazy. B/c why worry about problems that do exist when you can worry about problems that don't?

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