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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
We're humans, shit happens.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It's good that you don't want to ban all abortions, but Romney and many Republicans say they do.

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And in the process of trying to explain their positions, they often come off as neaderthals, saying really offensive and ludicrous things. Thanks, enjoyed it... time to go to work.

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Originally posted by Storymark:
So, now being pro-choice is to be an "aborto-zealot?"

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Originally posted by Storymark:
So, now being pro-choice is to be an "aborto-zealot?"

LOL.

Jong, thanks for being a reminder that not ALL conservatives are complete friggin lock-stepping morons.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

I know my position pisses off everyone, so it must be right!

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Originally posted by Storymark:

The Taliban also pisses everyone off.

This is the "depth" of your reasoning.

You may now return to your regularly-scheduled persecution complex.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Storymark:

The Taliban also pisses everyone off.

This is the "depth" of your reasoning.

You may now return to your regularly-scheduled persecution complex.

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^ Says the coward who is too afraid to even ATTEMPT to comprehend the issue, at all.

Yes, I'm for allowing a woman to choose to have an abortion , if she so desires.

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That makes me on par w/ the Taliban, in your eyes.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
2) If I were a girl or woman and someone told me I couldn't have an abortion if I wanted one, I'd tell 'em to fuck off or I'd kill him.

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Originally posted by Hero:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
2) If I were a girl or woman and someone told me I couldn't have an abortion if I wanted one, I'd tell 'em to fuck off or I'd kill him.

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Hmmm...you make a good point.

Then again, if someone told anyone they have no right to live and that they are going to kill them...then they'd probably feel much the same way. Good things unborn babies can't fight back.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Storybook - you only backed up what I just said about you.

Disconnected insults, over the top incredulity, and still nothing of substance or even any effort put forth to discuss the topics or comments made.

Well done.


" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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The Taliban also pisses everyone off.

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I know my position pisses off everyone, so it must be right!

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
You can't promote sexuality and then punish someone for their confidential personal decision.

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Originally posted by Hero:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
You can't promote sexuality and then punish someone for their confidential personal decision.

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You can't engage in any activity and then expect to avoid the entirely foreseeable consequences just because they are...inconvenient.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

And no abortions should be federally funded, either.

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Originally posted by Hero:

You can't engage in any activity and then expect to avoid the entirely foreseeable consequences just because they are...inconvenient.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

I'm pro-choice. Except I also include choosing life. Crazy, huh? [/quotw]

So explain to me what that means? Does that mean that you support first trimester terminations, but you support women who make the choice not to terminate but to look at other options? Because that is simply pro choice. Pro choice means that you have the choice to terminate or not. If you have some other meaning to what you believe, then please explain it.

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As I've stated before, I think abortions should be limited to the first trimester, save for in rare, life threatening situations to the mother, or severe abnormalities to the unborn. And even then , it should be up to the mother to decide. I don't want some death panel bureaucrat deciding who lives and who dies. And no abortions should be federally funded, either.

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I think most people who consider themselves as pro choice want something pretty similar, maybe they might disagree re public funding.

I can tell you that I don't want - unlimited availability for abortion throughout pregnancy. There has to be a cut off period where abortion is a choice because you simply don't want to be pregnant. The arguments fall between 13 weeks to 24. I'm probably closer to 13 unless their is fetal abnormality or some other good reason, but there might be plenty of those.

A termination at 7 and a half months seems horrific to me, unless you have to save the mothers life. I can't see why that should ever happen.

I can't imagine what sort of bat shit insane system would ever force any woman to have an abortion. Of course it is up to her to decide. I know that for late term abortions here, in public hospitals, you'd need to have a panel of doctors determine whether it was ethical, and that might contradict a mother's desire to terminate, and doctors may recommend for a number of reasons, but I can't imagine there ever being a situation where abortion was forced.

Being pro choice doesn't mean you are pro abortion, it just means that there should be choices available.

It puzzles me that you alight yourself with right to lifers who would also consider you to be 'pro abortion'

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Originally posted by Hero:
You can't engage in any activity and then expect to avoid the entirely foreseeable consequences just because they are...inconvenient.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

It puzzles me that you alight yourself with right to lifers who would also consider you to be 'pro abortion'

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
There in lies the compromise part of my position. Right to lifers would reject my views, as I support a woman's right to abort, while the other side ( call them what you will ) would likely have issue w/ my 1st trimester views, as well as no public funding. Everyone gets part of what they want, but not all , which makes my compromise so unsavory to each side's extremists.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

I'm pro-choice. Except I also include choosing life. Crazy, huh?

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

And no abortions should be federally funded, either.

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So if a female soldier is raped by a male soldier, and gets pregnant as a result (even if it's a so-called "legitimate rape" and her body doesn't "shut that whole thing down"), then you're saying she either shouldn't have access to abortion services, or she should be forced to pay for it out of her own pocket?

Is that the case you're making?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Storybook - Seems you're unfamiliar w/ the definition of 'compromise', where everyone is equally unhappy with a solution. Since the Taliban compromise with NO ONE, it's clear my comment flew right over YOUR head, and you childishly, ignorantly went with the " The Taliban also pisses everyone off " angle, showing how limited your views are on such matters.

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And, in grand fashion, you just keep doubling and tripling down.

You should have quit while you weren't so far behind.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

I'm pro-choice. Except I also include choosing life. Crazy, huh?

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That's a really nice strawman you've put up. Can you show me anyone who is advocating removing a woman's right to choose life? Are there lawmakers in this country sponsoring bills to force every woman to have an abortion?

Can you show me any pro-choice people who are AGAINST allowing a woman to "choose life"?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Originally posted by Niki2:

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Republican attempts to drag women back to the Ozzie & Harriet days

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I hate to say it, but the way it feels these days, that's the case on virtually EVERYTHING; I lived through those days, and they weren't all that hot, especially for women.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

There in lies the compromise part of my position. Right to lifers would reject my views, as I support a woman's right to abort, while the other side ( call them what you will ) would likely have issue w/ my 1st trimester views, as well as no public funding. Everyone gets part of what they want, but not all , which makes my compromise so unsavory to each side's extremists.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ban abortion ? Never been my position. So why is it an either all or nothing issue ? Why can't there be some middle ground ? Keep abortions available, but limit ( or ban ) late term abortions ?

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Again, I think you should get out more and speak to the pro choice crowd. You'll find lots of discussion and lots of areas of compromise - unlike the right to lifers.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Again, I think you should get out more and speak to the pro choice crowd. You'll find lots of discussion and lots of areas of compromise - unlike the right to lifers.

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Rap and I are both "right to lifers," in a manner of speaking, who support legal abortions. So you're wrong that "right to lifers" don't compromise.

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Originally posted by Storymark:

Who brought up compromise? Flailing much?

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You're still missing the point. ere's since you're clearly retarded:

Just because something pisses everyione off - it doesn't make it "right". an you grasp that?

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My god, you must look into a mirror while typing this stuff. You're so ignorant of how badly you're missing the point, I kinda feel bad for you. But not really.

You'll just keep insisting you're the only one who "really" gets it.... like you always do, Wilbur. And we'll keep laughing at you.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I think you'll find you are therefore pro choice, rather than a right to lifer. I don't believe you can be a right to lifer and support abortion.

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Who supports illegal abortions anyway?

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Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
"Ethics, too, are nothing but reverence for life. That is what gives me the fundamental principle of morality, namely, that good consists in maintaining, promoting, and enhancing life, and that destroying, injuring, and limiting life are evil." - Albert Schweitzer.

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Originally posted by canttakesky:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
I think you'll find you are therefore pro choice, rather than a right to lifer. I don't believe you can be a right to lifer and support abortion.

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Never let it be said that I support abortion. I believe the wholesale murder of our own offspring to be one of the most disgusting and unpardonable behaviors of our species.

I am very much a right to lifer. I believe fetuses have as much a right to life as newborn babies, or 2 year olds, or 15 year olds.

I just don't want to make the murder of fetuses illegal. (Note that as an anarchist, I don't support making murder of anyone illegal.) I very much support the right of other women to make their own choices about their own bodies, even if they want to choose to murder their own children.

So yes, I am pro choice AND a right to lifer.

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Who supports illegal abortions anyway?

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When I said I support legal abortions, that was badly worded. I meant I support keeping abortions legal.

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Originally posted by DREAMTROVE:
I concur with Rap and CTS. Abortion is a medical procedure that needs to stand the way organ transplants need to stand. There might be times when one life can be saved rather than two be lost. What cannot be allowed to continue is the wholesale genocide of targeted populations by putting the fear of life into people. When you see the silent holocaust for what it is, you will stand in shock and horror at the world you live in.

I was unplanned. The original plan was there were to be three of us kids, and especially after my sister was born with neurofibromatosis, my parents decided there would be no more kids. Being both faithful liberals and supporters of planned parenthood et al, they had basically decided that family planning was the way to go, and this would be it.

Then my mother had to stay in the hospital extra time for my sister, and she was visited by planned parenthood. My parents are both from very wealthy families, they are white and lived in an upscale suburb where they were both employed as columnists for a major newspaper. They were hardly the undesireables. But the daughter born was deformed, and the good people at planned parenthood were here to fill my mother with horror stories about her future kids, and their kids, and how she must not do this, for her own good, our good, and the good of humanity. She said it was one of the creepiest experiences of her life. She switched to a catholic hospital next time she got pregnant so she wouldn't have to hear anymore about it.

Thanks for the video, Rap, that was awesome. My part of the country is like a christian tv ad. there are empty playgrounds overgrown dotted all over, and empty schools tower over the countryside. And it ain't that people have moved out, net, they have moved in. It that someone killed the children. 1.2 billion of them. It's staggering to think about. And they did it because they believed that life was a crime.

So, and this is not a godwin, but an honest corollary: When would it ever be right to compromise with the holocaust. No, I don't compromise. I just don't think a ban is the way to go. We need to wake up the innate empathic value of humanity so that we can see what we are doing to our children. We need to take care of the "unwanted." I have never heard anyone say "Because I was an unwanted baby, I should be killed" or "out of financial hardship, we should kill our daughter" these arguments make no sense. We kill because we don't value life. We see it as some insidious evil creeping into our world.

"Ethics, too, are nothing but reverence for life. That is what gives me the fundamental principle of morality, namely, that good consists in maintaining, promoting, and enhancing life, and that destroying, injuring, and limiting life are evil." - Albert Schweitzer.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
You're trying to impose your standards of morality and behavior on others.

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Originally posted by Hero:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
You're trying to impose your standards of morality and behavior on others.

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This is what democracy looks like...or haven't you heard?

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