AURapptor is now an offical fundie! by m52nickerson

America loves a winner!

That a small group of hard core Lefties think my comments, taken completely out of context, some how make me a fundie, is hi-larious.

The place actually takes me back to my 'Evolution is a FACT' days, on AOL chat.

*sigh*

Friends of FSTDT ..

'Right Wing Watch' ? Really? ( No Commie Watch sister site ? )

Bad Astronomy ? Interesting side note, as I'm a big fan of Phil Plait, and have corresponded w/ him, fairly recently too.

Nice try, Nickerson. Swing and a miss, but at least you're trying.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:58 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

What makes you assume that people who make fun of fundies must be "hard core Lefties"?

Are you insinuating that the righties couldn't possibly find any problem with fundies like you?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:01 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

That a small group of hard core Lefties think my comments, taken completely out of context, some how make me a fundie, is hi-larious.

The place actually takes me back to my 'Evolution is a FACT' days, on AOL chat.

*sigh*

Friends of FSTDT ..

'Right Wing Watch' ? Really? ( No Commie Watch sister site ? )

Bad Astronomy ? Interesting side note, as I'm a big fan of Phil Plait, and have corresponded w/ him, fairly recently too.

Nice try, Nickerson. Swing and a miss, but at least you're trying.

Out of context is the first defense on any fundie that finds themselves on the list. However it is not true, since there is a link to the original thread the quote came from.

FSTDT has also been around for a long while. It is the internet authority on what makes a fundie. Enjoy your new status.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:18 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
What makes you assume that people who make fun of fundies must be "hard core Lefties"?

Are you insinuating that the righties couldn't possibly find any problem with fundies like you?

Already explained that one, genius. All the 'friends' sites are neutral to Left wing.

No 'Left-Wing Watch', to coincide with 'Right-wing Watch'.

Nickerson - Sorry, but your 'authoritah' claim is full of shit, and completely w/ out merit. A couple of dozen like minded folks on the internet arbitrarily voting on comments taken out of context is not a valid body of judgement.

Being sure of one's view points is not a reasonable claim for one being a " fundie " .

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:19 PM

Bad Astronomy is awesome.

I am confused by the fundie thing. I thought that was a religious label?

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:23 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Bad Astronomy is awesome.

I am confused by the fundie thing. I thought that was a religious label?

It is a fundie thing, but since nickerson can't find any real way of vilifying me on merit, he's willing to alter the definition to include this atheist. Apparently, going off the reservation, and being a TRUE free thinker ( non believer in god, while also being conservative ) will NOT be tolerated.

By the tolerant Left, no less.

Quote:
Noneofyourbusiness

@Leighton Buzzard

Quite. I mean, if this person is a Firefly fan, does he/she realize that the protagonists are liberal?

10/24/2012 10:26:53 AM

Mal wasn't. He was anti intrusive govt. Or did this person not SEE Firefly ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:26 PM

All of these are "hard core Lefties"?

Quote:

Friends of FSTDT

-Information:
Bad Astronomy
Infidels.org
Rational Wiki
Religious Tolerance.org
Right Wing Watch
SkepDic
Skeptics Annotated Bible
Talk Origins

-Commentary:
Bay of Fundie
Evolved Rational
Friendly Atheist
Pharyngula
Slacktivist
The Unbelievers

-Mocking:
The Brick Testament
Normal Bob Smith
The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

I'm guessing they didn't include "Left Wing Watch" on their friends list because their isn't such a site.

Maybe you and the rest of the fundies should go start one.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:32 PM

America loves a winner!

Not being a fundie, why would I need to ?

Edit - but as for 'fundies', they DO have a problem w/ me. eg: Evolution is a FACT. Young Earth Creationists are as annoyed at me as the AGW crowd. Probably because they're both bat-shit crazy, and only believe their dogma because it validates their particular religious / political views.

Oh, and how many 'fundies' do you know who aren't for banning abortion?

Either of those views alone are enough to get me booted from the 'Fundie' club.

Ahh... good ol' TalkOrigins. Spent many a hour there, reading up on Evolution, and tearing apart YEC's silly arguments.

*sigh*

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 3:57 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Bad Astronomy is awesome.

I am confused by the fundie thing. I thought that was a religious label?

No, it is basically anyone who blindly and rabidly follows a certain ideology and it immune to basic logic.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:00 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
It is a fundie thing, but since nickerson can't find any real way of vilifying me on merit, he's willing to alter the definition to include this atheist.

Unfortunately for you it takes the vote of ten different public administrators to get quotes in. I submitted 4 of yours, only these two made it. So there is no way I could have changed any definition.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Mal wasn't. He was anti intrusive govt. Or did this person not SEE Firefly ?

Oh look, Rappy still does not know were we get the term Liberal from.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:10 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Bad Astronomy is awesome.

I am confused by the fundie thing. I thought that was a religious label?

No, it is basically anyone who blindly and rabidly follows a certain ideology and it immune to basic logic.

And by " basic logic ", that's suppose to mean any thing which happens to conform to how this particular small group of Left wingers views the world.

Got it ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Bad Astronomy is awesome.

I am confused by the fundie thing. I thought that was a religious label?

No, it is basically anyone who blindly and rabidly follows a certain ideology and it immune to basic logic.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

Hmm.

Well, I don't consider anyone here fundie, really. I think it takes something above and beyond what I see around here to qualify. I only feel a cold chill of "wtf someone just said 'x'" only now and then, whereas I think with fundies it would be a much higher frequency. Most of the time around here it's just stuff I shrug off as partisanism.

I'm pleased to see so many browncoats there. It's interesting how some people watch Firefly/Serenity and think it's liberal, and some conservative, and some libertarian, and some anarchist. (Guess which one I am?)

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Not being a fundie, why would I need to ?

Edit - but as for 'fundies', they DO have a problem w/ me. eg: Evolution is a FACT. Young Earth Creationists are as annoyed at me as the AGW crowd. Probably because they're both bat-shit crazy, and only believe their dogma because it validates their particular religious / political views.

You differ from these people... how, exactly?

Are you saying you don't believe your dogma because it validates your religious/political views?

Quote:

Oh, and how many 'fundies' do you know who aren't for banning abortion?

So you're NOT for banning or restricting abortion?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Bad Astronomy is awesome.

I am confused by the fundie thing. I thought that was a religious label?

It is a fundie thing, but since nickerson can't find any real way of vilifying me on merit, he's willing to alter the definition to include this atheist. Apparently, going off the reservation, and being a TRUE free thinker ( non believer in god, while also being conservative ) will NOT be tolerated.

By the tolerant Left, no less.

Quote:
Noneofyourbusiness

@Leighton Buzzard

Quite. I mean, if this person is a Firefly fan, does he/she realize that the protagonists are liberal?

10/24/2012 10:26:53 AM

Mal wasn't. He was anti intrusive govt. Or did this person not SEE Firefly ?

You're not against intrusive government. You're only against it intruding into YOUR life. You're fine with intruding into the lives of others. You've advocated mandated vaginal probes for pregnant women, you've advocated forced sterilization of poor women, you've advocated government kidnaping and torturing people based on nothing more than suspicion, without need for reasonable cause or any warrants, you've advocated "preemptive wars", which is just about as intrusive as any government could ever possibly be, intruding into another sovereign nation on a whim and a prayer.

Please don't ever try to bullshit us by telling us that you're "anti" intrusive government again, because you aren't.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Thursday, October 25, 2012 4:47 PM

America loves a winner!

Kwickie - attempting even the most basic of discussions w/ you over ...well, damn near anything, is a act of futility. I'll tell you what I think, why, and you'll ignore it, dismiss it, completely out of hand, and believe what ever the hell you want to believe, regardless.

And then you'll go on w/ insults over the false views YOU assign me.

Sisyphus had an easier go of it.

No thanks.

Oh, case in point !

Quote:
You've advocated mandated vaginal probes for pregnant women, you've advocated forced sterilization of poor women, you've advocated government kidnaping and torturing people based on nothing more than suspicion, without need for reasonable cause or any warrants, you've advocated "preemptive wars", which is just about as intrusive as any government could ever possibly be, intruding into another sovereign nation on a whim and a prayer.

Yeah... that was fun.

( NOT )

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, October 26, 2012 1:08 AM

FREMDFIRMA

*snicker*
If yer soooo terribly con-cernnnned about your petulant fear of "liberal" things, I am sure Conservapedia would be glad to have you.

For mine own there is a certain stripe of "fundamentalism" in what I stand by as well, it's just that no one seems too bent about it when I get foamy at the chops over human rights even when everyone else decides their principles don't go that far.

I think that's cause "allow" doesn't come with any threat, most of the time, just moral persuasion, whereas "forbid" always, ALWAYS, downright inevitably comes with a threat of force, eventually escalating to lethal.

-Frem

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Friday, October 26, 2012 1:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Kwickie - attempting even the most basic of discussions w/ you over ...well, damn near anything, is a act of futility. I'll tell you what I think, why, and you'll ignore it, dismiss it, completely out of hand, and believe what ever the hell you want to believe, regardless.

Are you suggesting that you've never behaved in such a manner?

Quote:

And then you'll go on w/ insults over the false views YOU assign me.

Again, have you ever behaved in such a way? Or are you just another of those "do as I say, not as I do" fundies?

Quote:

Quote:
You've advocated mandated vaginal probes for pregnant women, you've advocated forced sterilization of poor women, you've advocated government kidnaping and torturing people based on nothing more than suspicion, without need for reasonable cause or any warrants, you've advocated "preemptive wars", which is just about as intrusive as any government could ever possibly be, intruding into another sovereign nation on a whim and a prayer.

Yeah... that was fun.

( NOT )

I note for the record that you in no way deny taking these positions in favor of intrusive government.

It's hilarious to hear you try to call yourself any kind of "libertarian", too, since you clearly know so little about the concept.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, October 26, 2012 1:43 AM

America loves a winner!

I note for the record that Kwickie is an idiot, and a liar.

Quote:
Quote:
You've advocated mandated vaginal probes for pregnant women, you've advocated forced sterilization of poor women, you've advocated government kidnaping and torturing people based on nothing more than suspicion...

All 100% and completely false. And Kwickie knows this, he's just trying to pad his post count, and make ( once again ) a federal issue out of that which literally doesn't even exist.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, October 26, 2012 1:45 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I note for the record that Kwickie is an idiot, and a liar.

Quote:
Quote:
You've advocated mandated vaginal probes for pregnant women, you've advocated forced sterilization of poor women, you've advocated government kidnaping and torturing people based on nothing more than suspicion...

All 100% and completely false. And Kwickie knows this, he's just trying to pad his post count, and make ( once again ) a federal issue out of that which literally doesn't even exist.

So state that you do not support these things.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Friday, October 26, 2012 1:58 AM

America loves a winner!

So state you're against stomping on defenseless puppies and stealing candy from babies.

Because until you categorically deny that you're against what ever the hell someone dreams up, you're completely for them. Right?

Kwickie made a completely false claim. He flat out lied. It's the ONLY way he can carry on this insanely absurd, baseless and juvenile thread.

You morons are pathetic.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, October 26, 2012 2:05 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
So state you're against stomping on defenseless puppies and stealing candy from babies.

I'm against stomping on defenseless puppies and stealing candy from babies.

See how simple that is.

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Because until you categorically deny that you're against what ever the hell someone dreams up, you're completely for them. Right?

Kwickie made a completely false claim. He flat out lied. It's the ONLY way he can carry on this insanely absurd, baseless and juvenile thread.

You morons are pathetic.

See I remmeber you defending legislation that would do these things, so I fail to see where Kwickie made anything up or is lying.

Oh...and this thread will continue because I know you will say somemore things that get on FSTDT. I will post them here when they do. Until you find a way to fix your stupid, or simply leave, this thread will be here...waiting.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Friday, October 26, 2012 2:11 AM

America loves a winner!

I never supported those things, and it's funny for you to claim you remember such , as it never happened.

Maybe I should start a " m52nickerson is now an official child molester " thread ?

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, October 26, 2012 2:59 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Unfortunately for you it takes the vote of ten different public administrators to get quotes in. I submitted 4 of yours, only these two made it. So there is no way I could have changed any definition.

So you went to the trouble to find what you considered posts that'd get put on a joke site so you could submit them to that joke site so you could start a thread on FFF.net ragging on Rap for being listed on that joke site.

Just how pathetic are you, anyway?

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Friday, October 26, 2012 3:28 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I never supported those things, and it's funny for you to claim you remember such , as it never happened.

So you never said...

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
If she can pay for them, she can have as many as she wishes. That's freedom. Having one kid after another, damn the consequences, and not providing for them, that's not freedom, that's criminal.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=50334&p=2

Did you not defend an abortion law that would mandated vaginal ultrasounds?

Have you not defended the War in Iraq, and water boarding?

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Maybe I should start a " m52nickerson is now an official child molester " thread ?

Have fun trying to find any proof of that.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Friday, October 26, 2012 3:36 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Have fun trying to find any proof of that.

Me claiming as such is every bit as much 'proof' as your little HS clique voting on me being a fundie.

Also...
- You've advocated mandated vaginal probes for pregnant women, ( I never did )

- you've advocated forced sterilization of poor women, ( nope, not true )

- you've advocated government kidnaping and torturing people based on nothing more than suspicion... ( again, not true, not even a little )

Nickerson, see how it works ? Kwickie lies his ass off, and then you follow up on the lie as if what he said was factual.

You truly ARE pathetic.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, October 26, 2012 3:40 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
So you went to the trouble to find what you considered posts that'd get put on a joke site so you could submit them to that joke site so you could start a thread on FFF.net ragging on Rap for being listed on that joke site.

Just how pathetic are you, anyway?

Very!

Might post some of yours as well.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Friday, October 26, 2012 3:42 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[Me claiming as such is every bit as much 'proof' as your little HS clique voting on me being a fundie.

Not really. Being a Fundie is a bit subjective. Not so much when you are talking about molesting children.

Also, never went to HS with any of those people. Don't know a single one of them in real life.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Friday, October 26, 2012 4:53 AM

Awesome. Well done, Nickerson - this makes my day. Hell, Ill be smiling all weekend over this.

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, October 26, 2012 4:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Because until you categorically deny that you're against what ever the hell someone dreams up, you're completely for them. Right?

Oh, the irony.

How many times has rappy acted as if the Left was cheerleading for something just because we didn't leap up to decry it instantly?

And now he whines when the shoe is on the other foot.

Hilarious!

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, October 26, 2012 6:00 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Haven't read this entire thread yet, so apologies if duplicative, but I just caught one of the responses to the second idiotic statement posted:

Quote:
#1462091
Leighton Buzzard

Looks like we have an Alliance spy in our midst ... River, kill him with your brain.

10/24/2012 4:45:16 AM

It's to laugh.

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Friday, October 26, 2012 6:00 AM

As amusing as this is, in a "lord of the flies" kind of way, it has become necessary to point out that if you guys chase away the only conservatives remaining on the board, you'll have no one left to argue with except among yourselves. Also, that hemorrhaging posters is a good way to dissolve the community entirely.

In that respect I feel like I should try to explain both positions in this argument so that there's actually a baseline to argue from.

AURaptor, Nick's not a child molester. Also, the reason Nick and Kwicko are accusing you of "advocated government kidnaping and torturing people based on nothing more than suspicion" is because at one point you supported the PATRIOT Act, which is basically what some of us see that as. You are free to disagree that is what the PATRIOT Act is.

However. Nick, Kwicko: AURaptor has never in my hearing posted anything in support of mandatory ultrasounds, shaming rape victims, or even anything about banning abortions. What AuRaptor did post once was a rather questionable defense of Rush Limbaugh calling a young woman a whore, because she was advocating on behalf of a friend who had a condition that needed to be regulated by hormones commonly found in birth control pills, and that they were asking for insurance coverage for this.

I don't know where the forced sterilization of poor women thing might be coming from. Perhaps something from before my time here.

Although, AURaptor, sometimes some of your responses on abortion threads, while never actually saying that you would ban abortions, you talk about how you understand why religious types might want to. Not a very strong condemnation.

There. NOW I think we can have a discussion about this.

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Friday, October 26, 2012 6:22 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
All the 'friends' sites are neutral to Left wing

...but he just said "That a small group of hard core Lefties think my comments, taken completely out of context, some how make me a fundie, is hi-larious." So even "neutral" sites are hard-core Lefties, apparently...

"Being sure of one's view points is not a reasonable claim for one being a " fundie " ." No, but saying things only a right-wing fundie would agree with is, see.

Actually, there IS a "Leftwingwatch" ( https://twitter.com/leftwingwatch), although they do seem to have some difficulty with English: "We are a Media Watch Bull Dog exposing all liberal, leftwing and socialist in national, local tv and print news!" Other than that, nope, can't find one.

Would be funny, if not so predictable:

Quote:
So state that you do not support these things.

Quote:
So state you're against stomping on defenseless puppies and stealing candy from babies.....Because until you categorically deny that you're against what ever the hell someone dreams up, you're completely for them. Right?

I'll state for the record that if anyone dreams up that I am for or against something, I will never have the slightest problem categorically denying it and stating my OWN views quite clearly. Apparently, not so for the Rap, which means....what? I guess I'll go on record as daring Raptor to state clearly that he is against any of the things listed, as I have memories of him defending them, as well.

I need to start keeping track of this stuff--interestingly, just like keeping track of Romney's flerps and florps, because Rap seems to twist and turn almost as much...and for far longer!

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Friday, October 26, 2012 6:36 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
As amusing as this is, in a "lord of the flies" kind of way, it has become necessary to point out that if you guys chase away the only conservatives remaining on the board, you'll have no one left to argue with except among yourselves. Also, that hemorrhaging posters is a good way to dissolve the community entirely.

In that respect I feel like I should try to explain both positions in this argument so that there's actually a baseline to argue from.

AURaptor, Nick's not a child molester. Also, the reason Nick and Kwicko are accusing you of "advocated government kidnaping and torturing people based on nothing more than suspicion" is because at one point you supported the PATRIOT Act, which is basically what some of us see that as. You are free to disagree that is what the PATRIOT Act is.

However. Nick, Kwicko: AURaptor has never in my hearing posted anything in support of mandatory ultrasounds, shaming rape victims, or even anything about banning abortions. What AuRaptor did post once was a rather questionable defense of Rush Limbaugh calling a young woman a whore, because she was advocating on behalf of a friend who had a condition that needed to be regulated by hormones commonly found in birth control pills, and that they were asking for insurance coverage for this.

I don't know where the forced sterilization of poor women thing might be coming from. Perhaps something from before my time here.

Although, AURaptor, sometimes some of your responses on abortion threads, while never actually saying that you would ban abortions, you talk about how you understand why religious types might want to. Not a very strong condemnation.

There. NOW I think we can have a discussion about this.

I don't want to chase all the conservative posters away. I just wants ones that are capable of having a real discussion. I've been it disagreements with a fare number of people here, including more than a few with you, I don't want anyone else to leave. Well okay, maybe Wolf.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Friday, October 26, 2012 6:52 AM

Hmm. You guys have been comparing Geezer and AURaptor, and you also want Wulf gone. The only other conservative I can think of on the board that people haven't mentioned chasing away is Jongstraw, but how much longer that will last when the others are gone remains to be seen.

I think I gave you all a fair caution. Perhaps chasing them away is not your intention, but it may be the end result.

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Friday, October 26, 2012 7:19 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Rappy is incapable of intelligent discussion on certain topics:

(1) Making the rich richer (He'll accept all kinds of government intrusion for that cause)

(2) Protecting him from the scary Muslims (ditto on accepting waterboarding and tossing civil rights in the dustbin and invading irrelevant nations to make the scary monster go away).

(3) Global climate shift (it might interfere with rich folks)

On any of these topics, rappy is a fundie, just like flat-earthers are fundies about their particular delusions.

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Friday, October 26, 2012 7:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Byte, you will never make a dent in this if you only focus on the problems on one side. Personally, I have seen FAR uglier things said to liberals on this forum than to conservatives. I quite freely condemn the attacks by several specific liberals here who go after Rap, Geezer and Wulf unnecessarily at times and unnecessarily harshly most of the time. But what those three have to say about ALL "liberals", "democrats", etc., FAR outweighs what the liberals say about ALL Republicans or conservatives.

I would love to hear from some of the voices I miss who are no longer here but may lurk as to what has "run them off", whether it is the attacks by liberals on conservatives, conservatives on liberals, or the feuding itself. For me, it's the feuding itself, in other words BOTH SIDES.

What bothers me the most is over-the-top rhetoric about anyone and EVERYONE on the left, as compared more often to specific attacks on INDIVIDUALS on the right. People can dislike one another, but when they widen that out to a whole segment of the population--one of which I happen to be part--it offends all of us.

I see crazy statements both made by some on the right here and defense of crazy statements made by politicians and others on the right, as compared to arguments (often accompanied by cites) and facts from the left refuting statements made by those on the right here and in public. When actual reasoned DEBATE (with or without cites) can be held here, when facts refuting statements are acknowledged, and/or when over-the-top rhetoric is even SLIGHTLY diminished, things would improve. I don't see that happening.

I see one rational conservative here who is treated by MOST of us with respect, even when we disagree: Jong. As far as I can tell, he is the one and only intelligent, reasonable conservative left here, and how I wish I could clone him...this place would be fascinating if we could! I disagree with him more than I agree with him, but I've agreed with him even on negatives about the left at times. Hell, I've even agreed with our hard-core righties here when they've pointed out something about the left which I think is wrong. When have any of those you noted ever, EVER agreed with anyone on the left about anything?

Blaming either one side will solve nothing, because neither side is any less vituperative in their attacks on individuals. It MIGHT help if both sides limited their ugliness to the individuals here, or specific aspects of public figiures on the left, rather than painting the entire other side in the ugliest terms possible, or having such a violent hatred of Obama that they will write the things they do about him. The fact remains that it's not just "conservatives" who've been driven off, it's "liberals" AND those who might be slightly liberal or even neutral as well.

I made my case about this recently, about another forum I was once on. In that forum, it was a small group of very, very ugly ultra-righties, and they drove off not just liberals and those who were in between, they drove off the other CONSERVATIVES as well, leaving in the end only one very hard-core PNish type who only got responses occasionally from one small liberal voice. Too much of any one side can have the same result.

ETA: I just noticed you saying "you also want Wulf gone". I don't recall many people "wanting Wulf gone", or wanting ANYONE gone (well, in the past I've experienced a few righties wanting specific people gone, or to die or something); I hope you're not tarring us all with the same brush. While I wouldn't miss Wulf, I don't want ANYONE to leave, I just wish we had more righties we could actually COMMUNICATE with. And I suppose I dream of everyone making any effort to be more civil to one another. Hey I can dream.

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Friday, October 26, 2012 7:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Niki, most righties don't converse, it's not in their mental mind-set, generally speaking. Expecting a righty to listen, think, and respond is like expecting a dog to set a table. Not trying to be harsh here, but the studies are pretty conclusive: most right wingers have authoritarian mindsets which preclude asking questions, considering wide sets of facts, and using logic to come to independent answers. Everything is divided into "my side" and "your side", and fear plays heavily into the response. Reality doesn't factor in.

Jonggstraw IS an exception. I can only hope that, as lefties, we are as thoughtful as Jongsie.

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Friday, October 26, 2012 7:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Hmm. You guys have been comparing Geezer and AURaptor, and you also want Wulf gone.

I don't want Wulf gone - he's fun to mock. I do wish he'd evolve into a thinking mammal, but I realize Im asking too much.

Quote:
The only other conservative I can think of on the board that people haven't mentioned chasing away is Jongstraw,

Well, aside from your assertation that we are trying to chase them away - which is not supported by much fact - Id attribute that difference to Jong not being a blindly faithfull tool who defends everything anyone on the right does to a fault.

If holding them accountable for their bullshit is "chasing them away" - fuck it - that's on them. Because the better alternative to running is to bring a better game.

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, October 26, 2012 8:06 AM

I concede that back when kaneman and other members of that ilk were around, there were efforts to make the board as unpleasant as possible for liberals.

Right now, the right on this board doesn't have any capability to chase anyone on the left away. Not enough numbers, not as much strength. The left? Does.

All I'm asking is that you consider this. Consider what was done to you, consider that the peer pressure here, while not as vitriolic as what was done to you, could result in a similar situation for people on the right. They are people and they are browncoats.

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Friday, October 26, 2012 8:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
So state you're against stomping on defenseless puppies and stealing candy from babies.

I am 100% against stomping on defenseless puppies and stealing candy from babies, and have never advocated doing either one of those things.

It's just that simple.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, October 26, 2012 8:09 AM

Byte, I'm not trying to chase anyone away, but I *will* hold them to account for their words, and I will remind people of the things they've said and the positions they've held.

I'll be happy to source every claim I've made against Rappy once I get home for the weekend.

In the meantime, can Rappy or anyone else PROVE that I was lying by making those statements? After all, they've argued that as long as I actually do believe that he said those things, I can't possibly be lying by saying that he said those things. According to several people here, that would absolutely not fit the definition of lying.

Think about that.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, October 26, 2012 8:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Because until you categorically deny that you're against what ever the hell someone dreams up, you're completely for them. Right?

Oh, the irony.

How many times has rappy acted as if the Left was cheerleading for something just because we didn't leap up to decry it instantly?

And now he whines when the shoe is on the other foot.

Hilarious!

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

Exactly. Remember when he accused us of supporting the guy berating the Chik-fil-A waitress because we didn't quickly enough - in his view, anyway - leap to denounce the guy?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, October 26, 2012 8:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
You've advocated mandated vaginal probes for pregnant women, you've advocated forced sterilization of poor women, you've advocated government kidnaping and torturing people based on nothing more than suspicion, without need for reasonable cause or any warrants, you've advocated "preemptive wars", which is just about as intrusive as any government could ever possibly be, intruding into another sovereign nation on a whim and a prayer.

I disavow all of the above. It's that simple too.

rappy? Your turn...

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Friday, October 26, 2012 8:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Byte, I'm not trying to chase anyone away, but I *will* hold them to account for their words, and I will remind people of the things they've said and the positions they've held.

I'll be happy to source every claim I've made against Rappy once I get home for the weekend.

Fair enough.

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Friday, October 26, 2012 8:45 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
They are people and they are browncoats.

Which is a major reason I want to drive people to have intelligent discussions. I want people to stumble to this site to be impressed with the way we Browncoats act. One of the reasons why I think we don't need the likes of PN posting many of the threads he does.

It gets to a point that trying to have a debate is pointless when one person will not concede even the smallest point when shown to be incorrect. Remember Rappy is the person who recently scoffed a peer reviewed articles as proof of anything.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Friday, October 26, 2012 8:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

All I'm asking is that you consider this. Consider what was done to you, consider that the peer pressure here, while not as vitriolic as what was done to you, could result in a similar situation for people on the right. They are people and they are browncoats.

Here's as far as my consideration goes:

If those of us on the left managed to make it through the vitriol kaneman used to spew without running away, then the righties sure have enough intestinal fortitude to deal with having their own words repeated back to them.

If they can't - who gives a shit? They can join whozit in the coward's corner.

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, October 26, 2012 10:55 AM

Well, Storymark, I think this is somewhat more than getting their words repeated back at them.

But, as I said, it's true that the right wing used to be the major attackers on the board. I just think it's important to recognize that the right people on the right aren't all the same and don't necessarily act all the same, and I don't think any of the existing ones are as belligerent as ones we've had in the past.

Just as for the right they ought to recognize that the left are all individuals as well.

Our current right wingers have said some bad things in the heat of the moment, and never apologized, but so have we all.

Quote:
If they can't - who gives a shit?

Well, I kind of do. All of us know what it's like to be attacked, but it's never pleasant, no matter how thick of a skin you have. I have tried to leave before myself, perhaps because I am cowardly.

Nick said something to AURaptor about "fix your brain or leave," and then said he doesn't really want any of the conservatives to leave except maybe Wulf, then said he doesn't want anyone to leave but thinks PN's posts give a bad impression of the board.

All of those happen to be statements I find concerning. I now believe they too may have been heat of the moment, but may still have ramifications.

It concerns me, both when Wulf says to Niki he wishes she would drop dead, or when someone says they wish our right wingers would be replaced by smarter ones. While such attacks can be fun for one side or another, it makes the atmosphere on the board hostile and not conducive to civil debate.

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Friday, October 26, 2012 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Well, Storymark, I think this is somewhat more than getting their words repeated back at them.

Perhaps - but only when they refuse to provide facts, and deny those that they disagree with.

You yourself pointed out that Jong does't get that treatment - because Jong doesn't pull that bullshit.

There is a correlation between the behavior and the response. We don't treat rappy like a fundie zealot fuckwit just because - he EARNED it.

And really - Niki saying she wishes that the conservatives here were smarter isn't even remotely in the same fucking ballpark as Wulf saying he wants her to die. That's a ridiculous equivocation.

Note to anyone - Please pity the poor, poor wittle Rappyboy. He's feeling put upon lately, what with all those facts disagreeing with what he believes.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, October 26, 2012 11:21 AM