The fiscal cliff... let's go over it. by SIGNYM

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The fiscal cliff... let's go over it.

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, December 7, 2012 07:18
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VIEWED: 1617
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Friday, November 16, 2012 8:30 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

The reasons for going over the fiscal cliff are pretty compelling. The military takes a huge hit, while Medicare and Social Security are protected. Tax cuts on everyone expire. This is automated fiscal responsibility.

More importantly, the T-baggers have vowed to not ever vote for increasing tax rates, but when tax rates reset to their pre-Bush value, that problem is erased. Any vote after that would only be to REDUCE tax rates on the middle class and down. They would therefore not have technically broken their vow, but would be in a position to move past it.

There is also the idea that the effects of the "fiscal cliff" are wildly overblown. Quite frankly, the only ppl I see making a big issue of it are wealthy business-people, who seem to be intent on drumming up panic. Don't they realize that the rest of the population has ALREADY gone over the fiscal cliff? Much ado about nothing.

There was a contest on NPR about how to re-brand the fiscal cliff. One entry which I thought was wildly clever was "the fiscal bluff", because that is exactly what's going on.

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Friday, November 16, 2012 8:33 AM

STORYMARK

Yeah, Im beginning to agree with this standpoint.

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, November 16, 2012 8:49 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I suspect we'll survive quite well even if the cliff, or bluff, is realized.

After all, it's not as though all of our representatives will be struck with paralysis when it happens. They'd just be more motivated to do something useful.

The only wildcard I see is the stock market, which is prone to panic, be it cliff or bluff induced.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, November 16, 2012 9:01 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The military takes a huge hit, while Medicare and Social Security are protected.

The last I heard, domestic spending was also gonna get clobbered. Not SS and Medicare? They're exceptions? I hadn't heard that. Still, major cuts to Food Stamps, Welfare, and Education programs, though, as well as Cuts to Federal jobs: forest rangers, national parks, other federal agencies and programs.

( But then again, "Welfare" and "Food Stamps" are Republican code works for
"undeserving poor", usually ethnic, aren't they?)

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Friday, November 16, 2012 9:23 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The military takes a huge hit, while Medicare and Social Security are protected.

The last I heard, domestic spending was also gonna get clobbered. Not SS and Medicare? They're exceptions? I hadn't heard that. Still, major cuts to Food Stamps, Welfare, and Education programs, though, as well as Cuts to Federal jobs: forest rangers, national parks, other federal agencies and programs.

( But then again, "Welfare" and "Food Stamps" are Republican code works for
"undeserving poor", usually ethnic, aren't they?)

Hello,

The GOP will bargain for increases in Defense Spending by surrendering increases in domestic welfare/education/social enhancement programs.

Signy may be right. This cliff may set the stage for real negotiations to happen.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, November 16, 2012 9:25 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Not SS and Medicare, because those are separately funded. They have their own taxes... not income tax... and their own budgets. Lyndon Johnson lumped them into the budget to make his Vietnam spending look smaller, but the reality is that they don't belong under the same heading.

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Friday, November 16, 2012 10:16 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Just as a clarification... all of my sources say that Social Security and Medicare are exempt from sequestration. SOME of my sources say that Medicare is subject to it, and some say that it isn't.

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Friday, November 16, 2012 10:24 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Sig, I'm hearing the same stuff...one pundit calls it the "fiscal curb" because it would be a gradual thing, and I'm also hearing many places that it is being used to gin up fear among the population to get them to pressure politicians, etc., etc.

I believe it affects more than you mentioned, but the other thing I heard is that it can all be taken care of retroactively in a month or two when things get settled.

If all you wrote is correct and the above is as well, I'm all for it. Enough of being used as political pawns by scaring us; haven't we had enough of that already in the past few years?

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Friday, November 16, 2012 10:27 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Just as a clarification... all of my sources say that Social Security and Medicare are exempt from sequestration. SOME of my sources say that Medicare is subject to it, and some say that it isn't.

Hello,

I don't understand. These statements are mutually exclusive.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, November 16, 2012 10:31 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Ooops, sorry. MedicAID is exempt for sure (it's part of the SSN program), MediCARE might or might not be.

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Friday, November 16, 2012 10:33 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Ooops, sorry. MedicAID is exempt for sure (it's part of the SSN program), MediCARE might or might not be.

Hello,

Thanks. For a bit I thought I was being stupid. It happens more often than I like to admit.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, November 16, 2012 10:53 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

One of the little stingers involved in going over the cliff/bluff/speedbump is that the Alternative Minimum Tax could come back into effect at 2000 rates. This would hit some folks well down in the middle class (as low as $45,000 for married filing joint) who have mortgage or some medical deductions or a lot of credits for child care and the like.

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Friday, November 16, 2012 11:16 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
One of the little stingers involved in going over the cliff/bluff/speedbump is that the Alternative Minimum Tax could come back into effect at 2000 rates. This would hit some folks well down in the middle class (as low as $45,000 for married filing joint) who have mortgage or some medical deductions or a lot of credits for child care and the like.

Hello,

If that happened, it would injure me.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, November 16, 2012 11:43 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Right now the cuts to government spending, domestic and military, could very well take enough out of the economy to cause another slump. Perhaps even a return to recession.

Now that is not going to happen January 1st, so I say lets go over it and see who blinks first.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Saturday, November 17, 2012 4:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Sig, from what I've heard, the coming ACA increase in Medicade is up to the states, and some states say they won't go for that, fiscal "curb" or not. We shall see. I think it would be interesting if they did nothing; then they could vote to put the tax cuts back in for everyone but the ultra-wealthy and watch the Repubs (if they dared to) fight to get it back for them.

I see no hope of the GOP agreeing to Obama's current suggestion, of keeping the tax cuts for those under $250, then "discussing" the upper end. That would put the Republicans in a really bad position, being seen as fighting for tax cuts to the top tier, so I think they'll continue to hold the whole thing "hostage". Should be an interesting next few months...

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Saturday, November 17, 2012 1:53 PM

JONGSSTRAW

The fiscal cliff is great! It's the best way to go to get large significant cuts against the annual trillion dollar budget deficit. Less military....new recession....loss of jobs...hey, no skin off my patootie. And the best part is Congress doesn't have to do a damn thing. That's what they do best anyhow. Time to buy up shorts and go long. A leaner meaner USA is just around the corner. Good times and noodle salad!

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Saturday, November 17, 2012 2:38 PM

CHRISISALL

NOW can we have a benevolant dictator?

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Saturday, November 17, 2012 3:24 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
NOW can we have a benevolant dictator?

No, Chris. You still can't be dictator.

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Saturday, November 17, 2012 3:35 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

No, Chris. You still can't be dictator.

I swear I would be nice.

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Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:36 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

No, Chris. You still can't be dictator.
I swear I would be nice.

Hey, hold on a minute. Before we have any crazy talk about some kind of dictator ruling America can't we have a little civil war first?

The Red versus The Blue. Uniforms with those bright colors offer such awesome design possibilities that everyone would just want to grab a rifle and go fight to the death for their ideology. All military arsenals and naval fleets would be on a first come first take basis. All is fair, after all it's war, but using nukes to attack marijuana strongholds like Colorado would be considered a war crime. Cry havoc and let loose the dogs!

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Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:27 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Hey, hold on a minute. Before we have any crazy talk about some kind of dictator ruling America can't we have a little civil war first?

Well, okay, if you want.

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Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:21 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

They are playing high stakes poker and the president is holding all the cards, there are those who are choosing to bluff and the president knows it.
What the republicans are trying to do is blow smoke up our ass.....plain and simple.

I agree, we've already gone over the cliff. Now it's their turn. Big woop!

SGG

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Saturday, November 17, 2012 11:25 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Didn't we have this war already? Oh wait, that was the Revolutionary War.
Say, didn't Trump call for a revolution. Man the neo-cons are really panicking now.

The Redcoats vs. the (Browncoats) Bluecoats.

Just think Joss called it, only thing it's about 500 years too soon.

SGG

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Sunday, November 18, 2012 8:26 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Hey, hold on a minute. Before we have any crazy talk about some kind of dictator ruling America can't we have a little civil war first?
Well, okay, if you want.

Ironic.

Mind you, this game was written in 2005, kinda eerie how close we actually came to this when you think about it.
Of course the writers had to throw in the usual cop-outs on the ending and ultimate responsibility, and the badly tuned opponent AI (which pretty blatantly cheats like hell) makes it less than it could be, still a pretty fun game.

There's apparently a movie by Bruckheimer in the works, which has been in development since about 2009 or so, time will tell whether that's blowing smoke or not - I hope they do something more interesting with the ending of the plot though.

Obviously I play the Great Plains Federation, one of the more challenging factions to play cause although you're well-liked, you start off surrounded by four opponents, all of whom will inevitably attack you immediately.
Generally I start off by curb stomping Texas (sorry Mikey, better duck!) splitting it down the middle and holding one side defensively while steamrollering the other with good ole Detroit steel, in the form of heavy tanks, side order of carpet bombing.

And yes, I nuked The Alamo....

-Frem

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Sunday, November 18, 2012 9:42 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

And yes, I nuked The Alamo....

-Frem

It's the only way to be sure...

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Sunday, November 18, 2012 1:01 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

What Shiny said. Both times.

Should be an "interesting" new year...

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Friday, December 7, 2012 7:18 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Better no deal than a bad deal.

Oh, wait... the "no deal" IS a "good deal"!

Onward through the fog.

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