REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Union thugs. Willing to fight freedom, at all cost.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Tuesday, January 31, 2023 11:02
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Thursday, December 13, 2012 10:31 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:


Wow. Baghdad Bob would be envious of these ridiculous attempts at spin.



Hello,

I agree.

--Anthony



Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Thursday, December 13, 2012 10:41 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Could you clarify that remark for me, Anthony? I don't know whether you're being sarcastic or serious--as you say, "without context". ;o)

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:00 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Could you clarify that remark for me, Anthony? I don't know whether you're being sarcastic or serious--as you say, "without context". ;o)

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.





Hello,

Context is so very important.

Glimpsing highly edited footage and using it to label people as Thugs is practically the definition of propaganda. Hence, I expect a propaganda minister to be pleased with the effort.

Open minded and fair minded people, by contrast, would wonder what they were missing in these tightly edited pieces. They'd want the whole picture before jumping to conclusions.

One would imagine that Geezer and Raptor would be very anxious for the full context to be on display. For all missing segments of video to become available. For the full gamut of atrocity to be proven in every detail.

But Baghdad Bob isn't interested in the truth. Just the message. A few snippets of suggestive material is enough for Bob. And for them.

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:11 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ahhh, thank you...I kind of thought that was what you were implying, but wasn't sure.

Given your response, I agree wholeheartedly.

It never occurred to me, however, that
Quote:

One would imagine that Geezer and Raptor would be very anxious for the full context to be on display.

Past experience has taught me otherwise.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:28 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Just found this one:
Quote:

Steven Crowder went to Michigan in search of a stereotype. “I went out here to prove the left for who they truly are, certainly these union thugs,” Crowder told Fox’s Sean Hannity Tuesday night, a few hours after he was assaulted on camera outside the Michigan statehouse in Lansing. In a sense, he succeeded. He found union protesters and one of them clocked him in the face a few times.

Crowder is a conservative standup comedian and Fox News contributor. He calls himself a social/political commentator, which is a highfalutin label for the level of commentary he offers. (“Liberalism is a disease,” his YouTube account explains.) As protests intensified in Lansing after the Michigan legislature’s passage of a pair of right-to-work bills, he waded into a crowd of angry union workers, asking them basic questions about why they opposed right-to-work legislation, according to the videos posted to the Internet.

Crowder was trying to provoke the protesters — or, failing that, to make them look stupid if they couldn’t muster an eloquent response. He was trolling a bunch of angry people who had just lost a battle that could cost them a big chunk of their salary. He irritated the wrong guy and got hit in the face.

Which isn’t to say he deserved what happened, or that there’s any excuse for violence. Crowder didn’t invite the punch or return it. But he certainly got what he wanted, which was evidence for the widespread conservative caricature that union members are thugs. (“Union thugs” yields 2.76 million hits on Google.) He got footage of a small group of union workers supporting a stereotype--threatening to shoot people, and so on.

Ideologies and the protest movements they give rise to are easy to caricature, and caricatures serve a political purpose. Promoting the stereotype that union members are thuggish is the right’s way of demonizing a group they ideologically oppose. So when Crowder tells Hannity that he “never went out here to try and be assaulted,” he’s surely telling the truth. He probably never imagined his trolling would work quite so well. http://swampland.time.com/2012/12/12/a-punch-turns-political-in-michig
an-labor-protests/


That's about it in a nutshell. To call Crowder a "social/political commentator" is to call FauxNews "fair and balanced". The two fit together perfectly.

I'm beginning to recognize the tactics used here, and what their intent was, and of course it would be effective. Provoke people long enough and hard enough, and you get what you ask for. It's not right for anyone to use violence, but there are more ways to be violent than physically.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:48 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yeah. I can see how anyone might think that, because of editing, we somehow missed the part where it became fully justified to use violence and tear down a tent which had folks inside of it.


You missed that? It was kinda obvious. They were there exercising free speech to say something the Union people didn't agree with.

Come on...that's asking for it. Its like when a hot girl wears a skirt...union guys are allowed to rape her...because she's hot AND wearing a skirt. If she didn't want to be raped she'd gain 30 lbs and put on a burka. That is what liberalism is all about...raping people, hitting them, taking their things, tearing down their tents. Hello? Occupy Wall Street.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:52 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Oh yeah, like anyone really needs to STAGE violent protests from the Left in order to make them look bad ?



Ask Walker. He's the one who got caught saying it.

Oh, right, you have no interest in actual facts, just pushing the narrative. Nevermind.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 13, 2012 11:53 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

That is what liberalism is all about...raping people, hitting them, taking their things, tearing down their tents.


Hello,

What a provocative statement.

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Thursday, December 13, 2012 6:20 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


First two or three seconds - the guy who 'threw the punch' is getting up off the ground after having been knocked down by someone -

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/steven-crowder-opens-up-to-hannity-about-br
awl-with-union-protestors-if-i-had-defended-myself-they-would-have-killed-me-where-i-stood
/

Obviously he wasn't the first person to get physical.

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Friday, December 14, 2012 3:08 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Are you asking me to cast the net of my imagination to see if I can conceive of a reason someone might legitimately take down a tent?



Sure. Why not? Give me a reason why pro-union protesters would have a legitimate reason to tear down a tent set up by a right-to-work group that had a permit to put it up on state property. I'd be interested to see just how far down the rabbit hole you're planning to go.

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Friday, December 14, 2012 5:32 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Are you asking me to cast the net of my imagination to see if I can conceive of a reason someone might legitimately take down a tent?



Sure. Why not? Give me a reason why pro-union protesters would have a legitimate reason to tear down a tent set up by a right-to-work group that had a permit to put it up on state property. I'd be interested to see just how far down the rabbit hole you're planning to go.



Hello,

If the tent was being used as a base of operations for people who were attacking them, they might legitimately wish to take it down.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, December 14, 2012 5:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Free speech is now seen as 'attacking' ?

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Friday, December 14, 2012 5:42 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Free speech is now seen as 'attacking' ?

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "



Hello,

Not to my knowledge?

--Anthony


Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, December 14, 2012 6:00 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
First two or three seconds - the guy who 'threw the punch' is getting up off the ground after having been knocked down by someone -

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/steven-crowder-opens-up-to-hannity-about-br
awl-with-union-protestors-if-i-had-defended-myself-they-would-have-killed-me-where-i-stood
/

Obviously he wasn't the first person to get physical.



No, no, no! Now you're just denying (highly edited to misrepresnt facts so as to push a bullshit right-wing agenda) reality! Rappy said so!




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, December 14, 2012 6:09 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
First two or three seconds - the guy who 'threw the punch' is getting up off the ground after having been knocked down by someone -

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/steven-crowder-opens-up-to-hannity-about-br
awl-with-union-protestors-if-i-had-defended-myself-they-would-have-killed-me-where-i-stood
/

Obviously he wasn't the first person to get physical.



No, no, no! Now you're just denying (highly edited to misrepresnt facts so as to push a bullshit right-wing agenda) reality! Rappy said so!




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"



Hello,

I really think that understanding the nature of those highly edited altercations is central to understanding pretty much everything. Unfortunately, neither Raptor nor Geezer is interested in why those altercations are so highly edited. Nor even Why the assaulted cameraman failed to press charges.

These are not mysteries to be solved, but rather inconvenient details. The message is about violent union thugs. Any oddities that muddy that message need to be ignored, and are rightfully edited out of the picture.

It's the difference between looking for the truth and looking for validation of your beliefs.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Friday, December 14, 2012 6:31 AM

STORYMARK


Yep. Its all about the narrative. Facts are disposable things, easy to throw away if they don't support what has already been decided.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 14, 2012 7:40 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Oh yeah, like anyone really needs to STAGE violent protests from the Left in order to make them look bad ? Wow. Baghdad Bob would be envious of these ridiculous attempts at spin.
Yeah. Cause no one would get up in front of the UN and stage a bunch of photoshopped "WMD" sites. No one would "stage" an attack on an American destroyer in the Gulf of Tonkin, or gin up a horrible flow of drugs passing through Panama as a reason to invade, nor snipe innocent citizens in Venezuela in order to foment a crackdown. And nobody would EVER kick down their own tent and blame it on somebody else. Stuff like that would NEVER EVER happen!

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Friday, December 14, 2012 8:04 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Kiki, I watched that video several times. It appeared that the guy getting up off the ground went straight for Crowder once he was off the ground. I wonder why he went straight for Crowder, if Crowder wasn't the one who punched him? Wouldn't he normally go after whoever knocked him to the ground first?

Of course, it's a FauxNews video, so again, there's no context as to who threw the first punch...

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Friday, December 14, 2012 8:07 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
Kiki, I watched that video several times. It appeared that the guy getting up off the ground went straight for Crowder once he was off the ground. I wonder why he went straight for Crowder, if Crowder wasn't the one who punched him?



Looks like he punched Crowder after Corwder shoved him to the ground. Crowder was confronted about this on Hannity, and while Hannity (who wasn't there) denied it - Crowder would not comment on the accusation.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, December 14, 2012 8:11 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
If the tent was being used as a base of operations for people who were attacking them, they might legitimately wish to take it down.



Any evidence of this?

The real Osama Bin Laden might have been hiding in the tent preaching jihad, and that's about as likely as the couple of dozen folks in the tent, some in wheelchairs, attacking several thousand union workers.

Come on, Anthony. If you just want to ignore the violence the pro-union forces committed in Michigan, then ignore it. Quit embarassing yourself with this "Oh, I can't decide anything without context", crap when the context is right there...if you admit it.

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Friday, December 14, 2012 8:16 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
Unfortunately, neither Raptor nor Geezer is interested in why those altercations are so highly edited. Nor even Why the assaulted cameraman failed to press charges.



And I've said anything about the 'assaulted cameraman' where?

Also, there are several videos if the tearing down of the tent from start to finish, including from inside the tent. You could find them pretty easily if you wanted. Apparently, you'd rather play word games that address the problem of the violence at the Michigan State House.

I used to have some respect for you, but I guess you move to the list with Mike and Story. Ignore.


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Friday, December 14, 2012 8:25 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by ANTHONYT:
If the tent was being used as a base of operations for people who were attacking them, they might legitimately wish to take it down.



Any evidence of this?



You asked for a hypothetical, and when given one, demand evidence.

Amazing.

Tell us again you're not partisan. With the news today, we could all use a laugh.




Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, December 14, 2012 8:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I looked for those videos, they were pretty obstructed by other people... mostly four or five people back from the tent perimeter, so it was hard to figure out what was going on. There were also none from inside the tent. (Nobody inside the tent filming this? Really???) If you have good links which have clear views of exactly what's going on, please post them. Otherwise you're just kind of waving your hands in the air.

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Friday, December 14, 2012 8:31 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


This guy's a riot: "I honestly, I don't want to use the world 'literally' here...but they, uh, I literally believe, Sean, that if I had defended myself at all, even flicked a small little jab, that they would have killed me where I stood.... " Further on he says "You take a scene from 'The Dark Knight Rises', it is not as bad as this, I expected Bane to walk in with his cheap little mask--I still don't know why that movie is getting great reviews--but yes, I expected these people to actually tear me limb from limb."

This guy is really...well, what can I say. WORSE than "Dark Knight Rising"?? Is he kidding??

Mark, I watched over and over the second airing of the footage, stopping the action, watching again and again. Crowder, whatever he's saying, is shown walking around with his hands in the air like he's trying to placate people...then at 5:56, Crowder ducks his head out of camera range, and the camera "shakes" and points skyward. At 5:59 you can see the back of Crowder's head, and if you stop the action carefully, you can see his left arm is doing something...then the camera swings around to show the guy on the ground, while Crowder walks in front of the camera to the other side. The guy gets right up off the ground and goes for Crowder. I ask again, why did he go straight for Crowder without any provocation...why not go for whoever knocked him down? Unless it was Crowder who knocked him down, just out of camera view, just as the camera is shaken and pointed skyward...

Gee, I dunno...Heaven knows, we've never seen any fraudulent videos from FauxNews before--certainly none they've apologized for THEMSELVES, right?

I gotta give FauxNews credit...they're good!

And yes, I would like to see those "other videos" myself...

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Friday, December 14, 2012 8:39 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:

Oh yeah, like anyone really needs to STAGE violent protests from the Left in order to make them look bad ? Wow. Baghdad Bob would be envious of these ridiculous attempts at spin.
Yeah. Cause no one would get up in front of the UN and stage a bunch of photoshopped "WMD" sites. No one would "stage" an attack on an American destroyer in the Gulf of Tonkin, or gin up a horrible flow of drugs passing through Panama as a reason to invade, nor snipe innocent citizens in Venezuela in order to foment a crackdown. And nobody would EVER kick down their own tent and blame it on somebody else. Stuff like that would NEVER EVER happen!




Nor would any FauxNews contributor EVER start a fight, edit the video, and then claim that he was assaulted.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/12/13/fox-news-contributor-gets-punc
hed-in-face
/

Nope, couldn't EVER happen here. No way.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, December 14, 2012 8:49 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Quote:


Any evidence of this?



Hello,

I'm confused. You asked me to imagine something, and are now asking me for evidence of my imagination?

Try to concentrate. More and better evidence is what I've been asking for, and you have been lambasting me for requesting.

Quote:

And I've said anything about the 'assaulted cameraman' where?


You should be thinking and talking about that assaulted cameraman, because he is part of the highly edited footage and the person best able to provide the evidence we should both desire.

Quote:

Apparently, you'd rather play word games that address the problem of the violence at the Michigan State House.


I wonder how you construe my distrust of doctored footage as a word game. I am very interested in learning more about the violence. Are you? You seem to have decided that an incomplete picture is the only picture you need.

Quote:

I used to have some respect for you


I sympathize.

--Anthony




Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 5:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


So rappy posts an opinion based on a highly edited video, Geezer castigates anyone who dares ask for non-edited video. Ah yes, the dynamic duo at work. The Kwicko finds the part where Crowder started the fight by knocking someone down. I hope the "union thug" sues and Crowder is arrested for assault.

Are we done here?

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 6:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So rappy posts an opinion based on a highly edited video, and Geezer castigates anyone who dares ask for non-edited video. Ah yes, the dynamic duo at work.

This thread: complete dud.



No, it's just some here are so willing to ignore what they DO see, and instead wistfully ask to see what REALLY happened, smacks of those who'd blame the victim of a rape case.


And it's not an "OPINION", but merely describing what took place on the video.



" Well, look at what she was wearing. She HAD to have said something to set them off like that "


Unfrakingbelievable.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 6:14 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I see we xposted. Did you check out the link that Kwicko posted? The "union thug" was knocked to the ground first. It was suggested in the highly edited video and much more plain in the unedited one. This is just a courtesy wake-up call. After this, I refuse to discuss the topic with someone who is closed-minded to the point of delusion.

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 6:55 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I checked out the link which kwickie posted, above yours, and it didn't in the least bit show anything where the reporter threw the first punch.

I see some big fat goon, yelling at the reporter, telling him to back up, and that's exactly what he does. He backs up.

Maybe there's another link ? Or if it's that one, cite where on the video this is suppose to have taken place.

And what of the guy being pulled by the collar of the shirt, as he's going into the tent. He has his back turned, and some punk cheap shots him, by throwing him down on the ground.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Checked the video, and in that one they DID edit out the section where it shows Crowder ducking under the camera, and just starts where the guy is getting up off the ground. Sorry, but there's no way anyone's going to convince me that a guy knocked to the ground would go after Crowder rather than the guy who knocked him to the ground, if that WASN'T Crowder.

Golly gee, look what I found:

vid=E8Q6Sop7EKo&v=XK04yTgClLc

Check out RIGHT at 1:35--you can clearly see Crowder (easily identified by his hair and black coat) pulling back from the man on the ground, with his fist clearly visible in front of his face, in a striking pose! I managed to get a screen shot of it:

That's what was edited out of the FauxNews video and finally puts it to rest for me.

Also, note that at the very beginning, the guy Crowder is crowding keeps saying "Get out of my face!" several times, and "Back up!"
Quote:

People familiar with conservative media videographers’ penchant for misleading edits immediately smelled a rat when the Crowder clip surfaced on Youtube, edited to show the fight already in progress. Excerpt from http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-contributor-steven -crowder-confirms-he-started-fight-with-union-protester/


By the way, here's another one, showing a union supporter saying over and over again to the people in the tent, "Get everybody out of there. Get everybody out of there NOW!...you gotta get these people out of there now!" and at 1:50 the same guy who shouts "He's got a gun!" says "You fucking pushed him!"



And there, again, you can see this, just before the camera shows the man on the ground:



The video has been called into question by numerous sources by now, and at one point, in an interview with Canada's Sun News, he said:
Quote:

Crowder says he actually did push the protesters: “We didn’t get violent with them,” Crowder said, “but we did try to push them off the tent. That is true. We tried to push them off the tent" Excerpt from http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-contributor-steven -crowder-confirms-he-started-fight-with-union-protester/


And finally:
Quote:

Although I've been reporting my suspicions (and other people's) about the truthfulness and integrity of Fox News contributor Steven Crowder's report of being assaulted by pro-union "thugs" at a Lansing, Michigan union protest of "right-to-work" legislation, Crowder's dishonesty is no longer in doubt. His video has been shown to be selectively edited and he has admitted pushing the man who later hit him (after pretending otherwise).
On the night that Crowder first appeared for his lapdog interview with Sean Hannity, I wrote that there was something a little too James O'Keefe about Crowder that made me think he was not being honest about the "vicious attack" on him, caught and presented in an edited video, and which just happened to coincide with his virulently, Breitbart-esque anti-union, anti-left agenda. I became even more suspicious when, during the interview, Crowder admitted he had gone to the pro-union protest to make trouble. Still, he told Hannity his beating was “completely physically unprovoked.”

The next night, in another Hannity segment, a guest accused Crowder of first pushing the man who later punched him - which Crowder, despite a series of dancing, diversionary responses, did not deny. However, Crowder did accuse that guest of being a liar after he made the allegation.

Crowder could hardly have been less forthcoming or more deceptive about what happened. On the night of his second segment with Hannity, after the other guest had accused Crowder of pushing the union protester, Hannity said, "Wait a minute. Steven, you didn’t push anybody.” Crowder did not correct the record other than to say that Hannity had the "unedited tape."

Fox deliberately inserted itself into this story and made it a big deal. Its viewers deserve a big "mea culpa" from them now - and a full airing of the unedited video and all the facts that are known. More at http://www.newshounds.us/it_s_official_fox_news_contributor_ steven_crowder_selectively_edited_his_video_and_lied_about_what_happened_12132012


I'm through wondering about this; for me, it's obvious the issue was manufactured, edited and lied about. It seems obvious to me that Crowder pushed this guy and FauxNews has made the most of the portion of the video it has chosen to show.

I agree with Sig; this thread is just another repetition of Rap swallowing what the right-wing media wants him to believe, and nothing more. They've sure got him hog tied, along with probably the rest of their audience.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:05 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Look at the second video on the link, the one which Hannity showed. At 1:20, you'll see Crowder push the guy to the ground, after which he comes up swinging, as would most people when assaulted in such a way.

Or maybe you don't think victims have the right to defend themselves...



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The only victims here were Crowder and free speech.

What you're supporting is mob rule, ala PURE democracy.

Have fun w/ that.

Niki - it's crowded, there are folks pushing, stuff on the ground, ever been in a hostile crowd like that? Union goons are notorious for starting crap, and then claiming they were pushed, first. Point is, those idiots had no right to tear down the tent in the first place. And it was a big tent. If there were folks on one side telling everyone to get out, doesn't mean that everyone around the tent heard it, or knew what was going on, on all around the tent. The excuse making for this sort of lunacy by the Left is unbelievable.


*edit * Are you talking about the part of the video where Crowder says " you just assaulted me " ? Please, that's far from conclusive evidence that he shoved first.


"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Yup, Mike, I believe that's the second I caught via screen shot.

Apparently from what I'm reading, Crowder (a COMEDIAN, remember) is well known for provoking people, which it was obvious he was doing. He pushed into a guy, then when told repeatedly to back up, he does so, hands in the air, looking innocent. Apparently that wasn't enough for him--we'll never know the details as there are no other good camera angles, but as one person said:
Quote:

At about 1:13, as the tent is coming down, Crowder comes over to the cameraman and waves him off as if to say, “that’s enough filming.” The reason for this becomes clear if you watch this longer, less edited version of the video.

What they apparently don’t want you to see is union members using knives to cut the tent open to let people inside out. Rather, the message that is being sent by the conservative media and blogosphere is that the union members deliberately cut the tent to pieces in an act of malicious vandalism. As Matt Allen points out in his comments HERE, the union members actually ask, “Is everybody out?” and then proceed to make sure that they are.

At 1:49 in the longer video, one union members notes that an AFP guy has a gun and brags that he’s “killed plenty of mother fuckers with a gun” (i.e., he’s killed people who were in possession of guns.) This is being played up as if a UNION MEMBER had a gun. Not true.

There is no question in my mind that AFP and Fox employees set out to incite a huge crowd of very angry people....Crowder uses a technique of intentionally invading your personal space to make you uncomfortable and then peppers you with questions to make you angry. It is an intentional act to incite an angry response. The Capitol grounds were a tinderbox of angry folks and both AFP and Fox News tossed a lit match into it and then blamed the wood for catching fire.Excerpts from http://www.eclectablog.com/2012/12/fox-news-steven-crowder-americans-f
or-prosperity-use-breitbart-style-film-editing-to-show-union-thug-brutality.html


Given that technique is patently obvious at the beginning of the video, I think the author has it right. FauxNews tossed a lit match into a tinderbox then blamed the wood, with the help of selectively-edited footage and their media power.

Enough; we've been here how many times? With FauxNews even in some cases ADMITTING their "error" in editing videos. And if anyone believes their material is edited "erroneously", I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you...

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:39 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Again, Niki tries to blame FOX News, and gives a total pass at the unruly, thuggish mob for vandalism, violence and threats to " KILL 20 people with a gun! "

The day after the tragedy in CT, is anyone looking into that punk union guy's background ? Seriously, why isn't that guy in custody ?


And when Colbert or Stewart do 'hard hitting news reporting', it's valid as hell to the Left, because THEY'RE so smart when they do it. But if Crowder does it, oh, he's JUST a comedian,and knows how to incite a large audience.

Tit for tat, anyone ?

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


As to the "You assaulted me", according to Crowder
Quote:

"...the man who was coming at me I think tripped over the tent peg, fell towards me, and that’s when I said ‘You assaulted me.’" http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcneal/2012/12/14/what-did-steven-c
rowder-say-about-his-video-editing/


So apparently Crowder, even recognizing that someone had tripped, claimed the man had "assaulted" him. So, let's see, even SEEING someone trip and fall toward him, Crowder claims it's an "assault". Boy, is that telling.

The whole thing is a crock of shit. Period.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Sorry, not a crock, Niki. They did pull down that tent. They did assault Crowder. Can't deny ANY of that.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 5:16 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


And once again little Rappy shows us all how he's really just a three year old having a tantrum.



ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 6:54 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

The day after the tragedy in CT, is anyone looking into that punk union guy's background ? Seriously, why isn't that guy in custody ?



"The only victims here were ... free speech."

And you have no problem with that, it seems.



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 6:56 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Sorry, not a crock, Niki. They did pull down that tent. They did assault Crowder. Can't deny ANY of that.




Can deny it, easily. What you can't do is prove what you claim. As usual, you're falling for a heavily-edited video and calling it "proof". I suppose Lord of the Rings is "proof" that hobbits are real, too, right?



"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:47 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Here's the man himself describing the tent/hot dog cart incident.








and here's my new hero. No one has ever said it better! He pulls no punches in calling out the real racists in America.


A formal complaint has now been filed by AFP with the Michigan State Police. They are "investigating". I'm not holding my breath.






This one was before the election. Oh well....it's still funny.





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Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:22 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
And once again little Rappy shows us all how he's really just a three year old having a tantrum.




The only 3 yr olds having a tantrum are the union thugs, who are willing to kill to keep people from having the freedom to choose for themselves if the want to join a union or not.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

The day after the tragedy in CT, is anyone looking into that punk union guy's background ? Seriously, why isn't that guy in custody ?



"The only victims here were ... free speech."

And you have no problem with that, it seems.



It's not free speech to threaten to murder 20 people, with a gun. I do believe that's constituted as an assault.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, December 16, 2012 2:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Jongs - Great video. Some will claim this didn't happen, and that it's all Crowder's fault, he staged all this , and here's a local businessman who has no ties to the conservative group, other than just to hand out hot dogs. The union thugs called him 'n-word', as well as uncle Tom, but of course, it's ME who is having the 'temper tantrum' over what these punks did to this guy.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Sunday, December 16, 2012 5:21 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I abhor violence by anyone at any time. I also abhor what the protesters did in cheering the collapse of the tent, and anything else violent they did. This video proves nothing, however; I didn't see any video of any of that happening, two guys in masks could have been anyone, including AFP or others doing exactly what Crowder did, so without proof, it is one witness' statement versus another's, and the other had video to back it up,plus Crowder admitting he pushed someone and him being caught in a lie. Given his past actions, I find that more convincing, along with that of the other witness.

I only watched a few seconds of the second video--it's obviously an opinion rant of some sort or other, and didn't bother with the third.

We will never know conclusively what happened, it's as simple as that. Each of us has to believe what we think was true.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Tuesday, January 31, 2023 11:02 AM

JAYNEZTOWN


The Great British Walkout: Rishi Sunak braces for biggest UK strike in 12 years

https://www.politico.eu/article/great-britain-walkout-rishi-sunak-uk-u
nited-kingdom-workers-strike
/

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