A Wulfs Answer by WULFENSTAR

Technically one citizen armed with a lot of ammo DID stop it - just don't know about the good part, and not before killing a bunch of children.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 4:31 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Or that citizen could have been killed as well all while injuring someone else.

I missed the whole part about the US government being toppled by Vietnam or Afghanistan.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 4:48 PM

America loves a winner!

All it would have taken is 1 good shot, by 1 good citizen, with a gun.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:04 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
Here is the end result of liberalism.

Liberalism? I don't see that. It is in fact the end result of not having an armed security guard or police at the school. In Florida it costs about $56,000 per guard to make our schools safer. We pay it in our county property tax.

A national sales tax of .5% - 1% would be more than enough to fund Federal armed agents at every school. We could call it the Child Protection Tax.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:14 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
We could call it the Child Protection Tax.

Absolute & total agreement here.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:29 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

We could call it the Child Protection Tax.
Absolute & total agreement here.

You are definitely NOT Herbert!

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the Republic."

Benjamin Franklin

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 5:52 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
All it would have taken is 1 good shot, by 1 good citizen, with a gun.

Hello,

I guess good citizens are never too slow, too inaccurate, too afraid, too unprepared.

I enjoy my second amendment rights, but I don't presume it's a guarantee that armed citizens will always rise to the occasion and best their opponents. A gun may give you a chance, but it will never give you a guarantee.

Quote:
more than enough to fund Federal armed agents at every school.

Jong's tongue-in-cheek suggestions continue. Now he has us placing armed Federal agents in schools. I'm surprised he didn't skip the Federal level and go for U.N. Peacekeepers.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9

“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WULFENSTAR:
This loss was horrible.

This loss could...SHOULD... have been prevented.

One good citizen, armed with guts and plenty of ammo would have stopped this.

Here is the end result of liberalism.

Your argue that a few patriots couldnt fight the greatest military in the world? A few words... Vietnam, Afghanistan.

Lastly. Good luck.

You watch too many movies. Your sense of reality is twisted.

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 8:21 PM

Is this the world you want your kids growing up in? ReallY

Quote:
Children laid to rest as push for change grows

A Utah sixth-grader caught with a gun at school told administrators he brought the weapon to defend himself in case of an attack similar to last week's mass shooting at a Connecticut school, officials said Tuesday.

The family is rocked by this...This kid made a mistake, and he knows it.

The 11-year-old was being held in juvenile detention on suspicion of possessing a dangerous weapon and aggravated assault after other students at the suburban Salt Lake City elementary school told police he threatened them with the handgun.

Teachers and administrators at West Kearns Elementary School confronted the boy in class Monday after students reported the weapon, said Granite School District spokesman Ben Horsley. The boy had an unloaded gun and ammunition in his backpack, Horsley said.
Advertisement

The boy waved the gun at others during a morning recess, school officials said. Other students, however, didn't report the threat until classes were nearly finished for the day. There was no immediate explanation for the delay, authorities said.

Authorities have not released the child's name. The .22-caliber handgun had been left at the boy's home by a relative, Horsley said.

The child made statements to administrators and mentioned the shooting rampage last week in Newtown, Connecticut, that left 20 children dead, authorities said.

The boy told others his parents sent him to school with the gun for protection, which his parents adamantly deny, Horsley said.

"The family is rocked by this. They have been very forthcoming," Horsley said.

The boy was expected to be charged in juvenile court Tuesday, Horsley said.

"This kid made a mistake, and he knows it," Horsley said. "He feels bad about it, and his parents are cooperating with the investigation. He will not be coming back to this school."

No one was injured.

Two other Utah schools were dealing with rumors of gun possession by students that turned out to be false, underscoring fears spread by the Connecticut shooting.

Separately, Utah's attorney general-elect, John Swallow, said he planned to make school safety a high priority and that fortifying schools might be one solution.

"When we had the issue with the airliners, for example, we strengthened the cockpit doors so that terrorists on the plane couldn't get through to the pilot," Swallow told The Associated Press.

Granite School District officials said they have a high level of security compared to other Utah schools. The district employs its own police force with 16 armed officers on patrol, plus school resource officers who are off-duty police officers.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/world/boy-11-brings-gun-to-school-for-self-de
fence-20121219-2bmcd.html#ixzz2FTYwtGYg

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Tuesday, December 18, 2012 10:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh yippee, another thread of implausible fantasies. My answer here same as in the other thread

"Thirty children were killed in a shootout between a would-be killer and their would-be protectors. 19 of those children were killed by friendly fire"

Sigh, yep indeed, if only the world worked according to our fantasies.

GAWD, I wish that dog would stop barking!

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 12:45 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It is in fact the end result of not having an armed security guard or police at the school. In Florida it costs about $56,000 per guard to make our schools safer. We pay it in our county property tax.

WTF?!!
$56K ?! really ? you're not BSing me here are you ?
Sheeeeit, you could hire ME for $20K less.

-F

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 1:21 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh yippee, another thread of implausible fantasies. My answer here same as in the other thread

The real implausible fantasy is where Leftists simply pass laws and put up signs declaring certain areas to be " Gun free " , and then expecting criminals and crazies to abide by those rules.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 2:30 AM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

For all the talk of "oh, if only there had been ONE armed citizen to take ONE shot, this all could have been prevented..."

1) How could it have been prevented? You suggest someone should have shot this guy BEFORE he ever did anything? I'm pretty sure you'd be charged with murder.

2) For all the weaponry and all the armed citizenry in this country, it's surprisingly rare - shockingly so - for that fantasy of one armed citizen taking the single kill-shot to ever happen. We're told that shooting sprees are rare events that can't really be planned for - and then we're led down the garden path of saying that the armed hero is the answer, an even more rare event that happens maybe once every 20 or 30 sprees.

So who's embracing the implausible fantasy here?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 2:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Oh yippee, another thread of implausible fantasies. My answer here same as in the other thread

The real implausible fantasy is where Leftists simply pass laws and put up signs declaring certain areas to be " Gun free " , and then expecting criminals and crazies to abide by those rules.

Oddly, nobody on the right has voiced the same opposition to putting up similar bans on abortion. For some reason, it's supposed by the right that outlawing abortion and declaring areas "abortion free" will stop that practice, but nothing can be done to stop the proliferation of guns.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 2:42 AM

I note for the record that one teacher at that school lived up to the fantasy espoused by Wulfie and Rappy. She had a lot of guns. They were used to kill her and 27 others that day.

If only she'd had more guns, more kids could have died!

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:16 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I believe she was found never to have worked at that school after all, Mike.

But the fantasy will always persist, it's part of the mentality. Some people see guns as the only--or best--solution to virtually everything, and you'll never convince them otherwise.

Gettin' kind of tired of all these threads on the same subject; hope something (preferably good) comes along soon so we can stop beating our heads against the wall.

Try this on for size:

Quote:

A Republican congressman responded to the Newtown shootings by calling for more citizens to be armed. “I wish to God she had had an M-4 in her office,” Rep. Louie Gohmert of Texas said on Fox News on Sunday, referring to the Sandy Hook principal who was killed while lunging at shooter Adam Lanza. Have armed citizens ever successfully intervened to bring down a potential mass shooter?

Yes, but it’s rare. Often it’s not clear whether brave actions on the part of armed civilians prevented further death. In 1997, assistant principal Joel Myrick used a handgun to stop fleeing school shooter Luke Woodham.* Woodham, who had killed his mother that morning, murdered two students and wounded several others before Myrick, an Army reservist, rammed his car into Woodham’s and then forced him to the ground. At a 1998 shooting at a middle-school dance in a Pennsylvania restaurant, which left one teacher dead and three other people wounded, restaurant owner James Strand took out a shotgun and chased down the teen shooter before persuading him to give up his weapon. After 51-year-old teacher Carl Brown opened fire on a Miami welding shop in 1982, killing eight, a man nearby grabbed his gun, jumped in his car, and chased Brown as he fled on his bicycle. The pursuer fired what he said was a warning shot, striking Brown in the back, and then ran Brown into a light pole. (Dade County State’s Attorney Janet Reno concluded that the pursuer had used “justifiable force.”) Not all interventions are successful: Other armed civilians who have attempted to stop shootings have been left severely injured or have been killed.

An investigation by Mother Jones concluded that no more than 1.6 percent of mass shootings were ended by armed civilians. A 1999 study by John Lott of the University of Maryland and William M. Landes of the University of Chicago, often cited by conservatives, found that “shall issue” laws allowing concealed handguns “reduce both the number of [multiple victim] shootings as well as their severity.” However, a review of studies on the topic found the evidence to be inconsistent and inconclusive. A recent Washington Post fact-check similarly found the current evidence to be too murky for representatives like Gohmert to cite as fact.More at http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2012/12/can_
armed_citizens_stop_ mass_shootings_examples_of_armed_interventions.html

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
For all the talk of "oh, if only there had been ONE armed citizen to take ONE shot, this all could have been prevented..."

1) How could it have been prevented? You suggest someone should have shot this guy BEFORE he ever did anything? I'm pretty sure you'd be charged with murder.

Well, we know he operates in deep fantasy much of the time. He's likely picturing himself, sitting in fromt of the school, rifle in hand, being the hero...

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:40 AM

...Not picturing that the shooter would have likely shot any security stationed at the front door without warning, negating them being armed with the element of surprise.

Increased security at schools... Don't think that's the answer either.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
For all the talk of "oh, if only there had been ONE armed citizen to take ONE shot, this all could have been prevented..."

1) How could it have been prevented? You suggest someone should have shot this guy BEFORE he ever did anything? I'm pretty sure you'd be charged with murder.

Well, we know he operates in deep fantasy much of the time. He's likely picturing himself, sitting in fromt of the school, rifle in hand, being the hero...

About 1.6 % of the time, anyway.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
...Not picturing that the shooter would have likely shot any security stationed at the front door without warning, negating them being armed with the element of surprise.

Increased security at schools... Don't think that's the answer either.

Bingo.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

While I, too, say "bingo" to the first part of that, Byte, I would like to see some things implemented to provide more security to schools, as there have been numerous school shootings. I'm not sure what would be the most viable method, but I'd like someone to explore them and find one.

Mark, that's beautiful...and I'd be willing to bet, right on as well. Poor Wulf...he's so invested in his videos, movies and TV that he always imagines such things, I'm betting.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 8:51 AM

HKCAVALIER

One of the most distubing aspects of the whole super hero myth is that this guy, be he Supes or Bats or Spidey is somehow, in a city with millions of inhabitants, able to always be at the scene of the most important crimes. It would be awesome if someone (better put it on my to-do list) would write a whole graphic novel about Batman showing all the crimes he wasn't available to thwart because he just didn't hear about it or was busy or was, y'know, sleeping. But that story never gets told. Super heroes is some sickass shit at the end of the day, my friends. I think America's obsession with guns and our peculiar love of super heroes are tributaries of the same maladaptive river.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 9:07 AM

They actually do stories about that HK. Spidey generally suffers from exhaustion and malnourishment because he can't be everywhere and because his life as a superhero interferes with working and earning enough money for a place to live or feed himself. Superman has super-hearing - he can hear all the cries for help, around the world, but he can't solve all the problems.

The point people miss is not that we shouldn't have heroes, it's that the big fancy heroism is self-destructive, and that there are also little unsung acts of heroism that happen every day - that we all actually have a responsibility to be every day heroes.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 9:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Mark, that's beautiful...and I'd be willing to bet, right on as well. Poor Wulf...he's so invested in his videos, movies and TV that he always imagines such things, I'm betting.

Well... So do I. And I bet much more violently than anything Wulf has ever thought up.

People getting pushed into traintracks, school shootings, is it really so bad for one person to wish they there were in the right place at the the right time to stop it or help? How many of you non-violent types wish you coulda just TALKED to this kid and calmed him down, maybe helped him flee before they institutionalized him (the threat of which seems to have been the spark for his rampage)?

I mean yeah, I've been digging at Wulf about his methods, but I don't dig at him about his desire to make a difference.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 9:36 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Mark, that's beautiful...and I'd be willing to bet, right on as well. Poor Wulf...he's so invested in his videos, movies and TV that he always imagines such things, I'm betting.

Well... So do I. And I bet much more violently than anything Wulf has ever thought up.

People getting pushed into traintracks, school shootings, is it really so bad for one person to wish they there were in the right place at the the right time to stop it or help? How many of you non-violent types wish you coulda just TALKED to this kid and calmed him down, maybe helped him flee before they institutionalized him (the threat of which seems to have been the spark for his rampage)?

I mean yeah, I've been digging at Wulf about his methods, but I don't dig at him about his desire to make a difference.

Its all well and good to have fantasies of heroism. Id say that's natural. It's thinking one's fanatsies are a viable solution to real problems that's the problem.

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 9:43 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The real implausible fantasy is where Leftists simply pass laws and put up signs declaring certain areas to be " Gun free " , and then expecting criminals and crazies to abide by those rules.

Yes because firearm accidents never happen and could never be more common than school shootings.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:17 AM

Quote:
Its all well and good to have fantasies of heroism. Id say that's natural. It's thinking one's fanatsies are a viable solution to real problems that's the problem.

Where do solutions come from if you don't first dream them up?

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:24 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Its all well and good to have fantasies of heroism. Id say that's natural. It's thinking one's fanatsies are a viable solution to real problems that's the problem.

Wulf, and those like him, are not about coming up with viable solutions, Byte, whether they "dream them up" or otherwise. They are about puffing out their chests and proclaiming that "guns would solve" everything. You never hear Wulf talk about the nuances of ANYTHING, it is all cut and dried, black and white: Be a hero. Do it yourself. Don't work with anyone else; just get out there and SHOOT SOMEBODY!

There's a huge difference. It's called "reality".

And I've got news for you. I'm non-violent, but if I were there and could take the guy out, I would have done so. It's not about non-violence, it's about common sense.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

People getting pushed into traintracks, school shootings, is it really so bad for one person to wish they there were in the right place at the the right time to stop it or help? How many of you non-violent types wish you coulda just TALKED to this kid and calmed him down, maybe helped him flee before they institutionalized him (the threat of which seems to have been the spark for his rampage)?

I mean yeah, I've been digging at Wulf about his methods, but I don't dig at him about his desire to make a difference.

Quote:
Its all well and good to have fantasies of heroism. Id say that's natural. It's thinking one's fanatsies are a viable solution to real problems that's the problem

It is a naive fantasy, one I find that certain young males often harbour (and give voice to)
"If only I had been there, it would have turned out differently"
Picturing themselves taking down the armed shooter, being the hero.

Incidently, this did happen in Melbourne a few years ago. But no one had a gun, except the gunman who had entered a medical clinic that offered abortions after shooting dead the security guard. Several men who were sitting with their pregnant partners wrestled him to the ground and removed his gun.

No one knows how they will react to these events. Whether they will lunge at the shooter - like the brave principal and school counsellors, or fall in a heap, or run away. Armed or not armed.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

And I've got news for you. I'm non-violent, but if I were there and could take the guy out, I would have done so. It's not about non-violence, it's about common sense.

I don't doubt it. There's a reason why all of us are on this board and why Firefly appealed to us.

Quote:
Wulf, and those like him, are not about coming up with viable solutions, Byte, whether they "dream them up" or otherwise. They are about puffing out their chests and proclaiming that "guns would solve" everything. You never hear Wulf talk about the nuances of ANYTHING, it is all cut and dried, black and white: Be a hero. Do it yourself. Don't work with anyone else; just get out there and SHOOT SOMEBODY!

There's a huge difference. It's called "reality".

We make reality. Every choice, everything we do. And right now? Reality is shit.

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 10:59 AM

America loves a winner!

Suspected home invader shot, killed by homeowner
3:00 PM, Sep 22, 2012

Quote:
LAWRENCEVILLE, Ga. -- Gwinnett Police are still investigating a home invasion that left one suspect dead Saturday morning.

Police arrived at Wesley St. Claire Apartments on Sweetwater Road around 3:10am to find a man dead outside of the 700 building.

They later discovered the man, 21-year-old Bobby Smith, was in the process of committing a home invasion when he was killed by the homeowner.

Police are still searching for a second man also believed to be involved.

The homeowner, whose name is not being released, apparently knew the two men. Police found no sign of forced entry. Gwinnett Police Sgt. Rich Long said the crime was not random; it appears that apartment was targeted.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/257840/40/Suspected-home-invader-s
hot-killed-by-homeowner

The radio reports a slightly DIFFERENT story. The homeowner used a gun to defend his home. Wonder why that detail was left out. Hmmm...

Different account, by WSB ...
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/possible-home-invasion-leaves-sus
pect-dead/nSHrm/

Quote:
But on Saturday afternoon, investigators determined the people involved knew each other. Police said the resident shot in self-defense, while one man is dead and another is on the run.

Self defense - 1 Bad guys - 0

Quote:
Oglethorpe County man shot and killed in home invasion

One of a group of home invaders killed during a weekend robbery attempt in Stephens County has been identified by authorities as an Oglethorpe County resident.

Demetrice Faust, 34, was shot and killed about 9:30 p.m. Sunday when he and three accomplices busted into a home in the town of Martin, according to Stephens County Sheriff Randy Shirley.

“Four subjects, armed with handguns and long guns, forced their way into a residence,” Shirley said.
“During the incident, one of the occupants of the home was able to retrieve an assault rifle that he kept at the residence and subsequently shot one of the intruders.”

Faust was dead when deputies arrived and his accomplices had fled the scene.

http://onlineathens.com/local-news/2012-10-03/oglethorpe-county-man-sh
ot-and-killed-home-invasion

Self Defense - 2, Bad guys - 0

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:12 AM

More pointless justifications. Did you find these on the NRA website, or did the gun manufacturers email them to you directly?

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:18 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by MAGONSDAUGHTER:
More pointless justifications. Did you find these on the NRA website, or did the gun manufacturers email them to you directly?

Heard about the first one this morning, as I was driving in to work.

I don't think the wife and kids of the guy who successively defended his home thought it was all that " pointless ".

There are, of course, plenty of examples out there to give. I offer up one, it's not enough. Two, still not enough. Sorry, I have better things to do than repeatedly beat you in the head w/ the 2x4 of reality.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Suspected home invader shot, killed by homeowner
3:00 PM, Sep 22, 2012

Quote:
LAWRENCEVILLE, Ga. -- Gwinnett Police are still investigating a home invasion that left one suspect dead Saturday morning.

Police arrived at Wesley St. Claire Apartments on Sweetwater Road around 3:10am to find a man dead outside of the 700 building.

They later discovered the man, 21-year-old Bobby Smith, was in the process of committing a home invasion when he was killed by the homeowner.

Police are still searching for a second man also believed to be involved.

The homeowner, whose name is not being released, apparently knew the two men. Police found no sign of forced entry. Gwinnett Police Sgt. Rich Long said the crime was not random; it appears that apartment was targeted.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article/257840/40/Suspected-home-invader-s
hot-killed-by-homeowner

The radio reports a slightly DIFFERENT story. The homeowner used a gun to defend his home. Wonder why that detail was left out. Hmmm...

Different account, by WSB ...
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/possible-home-invasion-leaves-sus
pect-dead/nSHrm/

Quote:
But on Saturday afternoon, investigators determined the people involved knew each other. Police said the resident shot in self-defense, while one man is dead and another is on the run.

Self defense - 1 Bad guys - 0

Quote:
Oglethorpe County man shot and killed in home invasion

One of a group of home invaders killed during a weekend robbery attempt in Stephens County has been identified by authorities as an Oglethorpe County resident.

Demetrice Faust, 34, was shot and killed about 9:30 p.m. Sunday when he and three accomplices busted into a home in the town of Martin, according to Stephens County Sheriff Randy Shirley.

“Four subjects, armed with handguns and long guns, forced their way into a residence,” Shirley said.
“During the incident, one of the occupants of the home was able to retrieve an assault rifle that he kept at the residence and subsequently shot one of the intruders.”

Faust was dead when deputies arrived and his accomplices had fled the scene.

http://onlineathens.com/local-news/2012-10-03/oglethorpe-county-man-sh
ot-and-killed-home-invasion

Self Defense - 2, Bad guys - 0

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

Colorado man kills three, then himself, after being released from jail.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57560002-504083/colorado-murder
-suicide-update-suspected-gunman-was-released-from-jail-hours-before-shooting-attack-police-say/

Self Defense - 0, Bad guys - 4

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by MAGONSDAUGHTER:
More pointless justifications. Did you find these on the NRA website, or did the gun manufacturers email them to you directly?

Heard about the first one this morning, as I was driving in to work.

I don't think the wife and kids of the guy who successively defended his home thought it was all that " pointless ".

There are, of course, plenty of examples out there to give. I offer up one, it's not enough. Two, still not enough. Sorry, I have better things to do than repeatedly beat you in the head w/ the 2x4 of reality.

You offered two, and I offered one that doubled your score for the bad guys.

Until you can show me 30-odd times a day where the armed citizen has thwarted the armed bad guy, you won't equal the number of gun murders we have every day in this country.

You know this, of course; you're just trying to play dumb. Well, not so much "play"...

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 6:44 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
It would be awesome if someone (better put it on my to-do list) would write a whole graphic novel about Batman showing all the crimes he wasn't available to thwart because he just didn't hear about it or was busy or was, y'know, sleeping. But that story never gets told. Super heroes is some sickass shit at the end of the day, my friends.

Someone took it one better and went into what if that drove the Superhero over the edge.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Irredeemable

I rather tend to identify with one of the supposed "bad guys" forced by necessity into a heroic role, not cause I know what that's like or anything....

-F

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 6:50 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by MAGONSDAUGHTER:
More pointless justifications. Did you find these on the NRA website, or did the gun manufacturers email them to you directly?

You'd think the NRA would have e-mailed me this one, huh?

Off-duty Texas deputy stops theater shooting

Quote:
http://www.examiner.com/article/off-duty-texas-deputy-stops-theater-sh
ooting

On Sunday, December 16, 2012, off-duty sheriff's deputy, Lisa Castellano, shot and wounded a gunman after he opened fire in a restaurant and movie theater in San Antonio, Texas. According to a report by the San Antonio Express News, Jesus Manuel Garcia shot and injured two people at the Santikos Mayan Palace 14 Theater.

The shooting began at the China Garden restaurant, where Garica was employed, and carried over into the theater. Garcia was apparently upset after his girlfriend had broken up with him that night.

Bexar County sheriff’s deputy Lisa Castellano was working at the movie theater as a security guard. Castellano chased Garcia into the men’s restroom, shooting him several times, and confiscating his gun.

And it was a chick officer, too !

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Wednesday, December 19, 2012 7:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Heard about the first one this morning, as I was driving in to work.

This is the first time you've ever mentioned having a job. You actually found someone willing to hire you? Good for you!

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 1:54 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Heard about the first one this morning, as I was driving in to work.

This is the first time you've ever mentioned having a job. You actually found someone willing to hire you? Good for you!

Did I say work? I meant to the driving range, before my morning round at the club.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 2:26 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Self Defense - 2, Bad guys - 0

Just with the recent event that would be Self Defense - 2, Bad Guys - 27.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 5:47 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
For all the talk of "oh, if only there had been ONE armed citizen to take ONE shot, this all could have been prevented..."

1) How could it have been prevented? You suggest someone should have shot this guy BEFORE he ever did anything? I'm pretty sure you'd be charged with murder.

2) For all the weaponry and all the armed citizenry in this country, it's surprisingly rare - shockingly so - for that fantasy of one armed citizen taking the single kill-shot to ever happen. We're told that shooting sprees are rare events that can't really be planned for - and then we're led down the garden path of saying that the armed hero is the answer, an even more rare event that happens maybe once every 20 or 30 sprees.

So who's embracing the implausible fantasy here?

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspx

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 6:52 AM

America loves a winner!

Faramir's words ring all the more true...

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.”

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 7:15 AM

Yeah, all we need is more guns! That'll solve the pro...oh, wait...

Quote:
In 2009, ABC’s “20/20? demonstrated the problem with a clever experiment. They recruited a dozen or so students, gave them gun training that was more comprehensive than what most states require for concealed carry permits, and then entrusted them with a gun and told them they would have to fend off a shooter later that day. Separating them, they placed each one in a real classroom with other “students” (actually study compatriots). When a gunman burst in and started shooting, each student tried to respond by drawing his or her gun. Every single student failed, including several who had had years of practice shooting guns, and they all got shot (fortunately, it was just paintball bullets in real handguns).

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/video/defend-gun-7312540

Even trained AND forewarned - being armed made NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL.

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 8:29 AM

^That's actually one of the reasons people talk about Mal's quickdraw over on places like tvtropes. It's almost bordering on impossible amounts of skill, to walk onto a ship, casually draw a gun, and without even seeming to bother aiming, take out a guy using a human shield.

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 8:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
^That's actually one of the reasons people talk about Mal's quickdraw over on places like tvtropes. It's almost bordering on impossible amounts of skill, to walk onto a ship, casually draw a gun, and without even seeming to bother aiming, take out a guy using a human shield.

Yep. And therein lies a key point:

Some folks realize that stuff like that is fiction - meant entirely for entertainment.

And then you get the fools who think that cowboy bullshit is not only real but that THEY can do it too!

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 8:37 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
^That's actually one of the reasons people talk about Mal's quickdraw over on places like tvtropes. It's almost bordering on impossible amounts of skill, to walk onto a ship, casually draw a gun, and without even seeming to bother aiming, take out a guy using a human shield.

Well, Mal WAS just in a gun fight, so he's likely ' in the zone', as it were. And with Reevers on their heels, he assessed the situation, knew they had exactly no time for a long, drawn out negotiation, if he was going to have any chance at saving the rest of the crew...

And also, they live on a space ship.

Some things are more far fetched than others.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 8:53 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Apropros of nothing, other than a reality check.

Training alone simply won't do it, there's issues of mentality and nature, general response time and other factors like native situational awareness to consider - stuff your average college student may, or may not have, and in most cases does NOT have.
Ergo this is the opposite end from how Milgram and Standford "pre-loaded" their tests by selecting from a pool of individuals more likely to have a submissive response to authority - selecting folks without the required secondary skills and talents required to make proper and full use of that training, and then using this slanted angle to condemn the training.

That's bunk, it ain't SCIENCE, especially with no damn control group, it's just deliberately self-feeding and validating a preconceived notion, is all.

Contrary to what hollywood may show, also, being able to draw quickly AND hit a target requires not just extensive training, but in fact ludicrous levels of it - at a range of less than 20feet it's BETTER to engage physically, lock up the opponents weapon and THEN draw/shoot them.
http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Tueller/How.Close.htm

There's been a quite a few times, most of them back when I was much younger and in better condition, where that's played in my favor by allowing me to prevent someone from deploying a weapon in the first damn place - leading that 20foot rush with a thrown object to the face makes it even easier.
A weapon and ability to use it is NOT a pancea, and NEVER a guarantee.

-Frem

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 9:01 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Apropros of nothing, other than a reality check.

Training alone simply won't do it, there's issues of mentality and nature, general response time and other factors like native situational awareness to consider - stuff your average college student may, or may not have, and in most cases does NOT have.
Ergo this is the opposite end from how Milgram and Standford "pre-loaded" their tests by selecting from a pool of individuals more likely to have a submissive response to authority - selecting folks without the required secondary skills and talents required to make proper and full use of that training, and then using this slanted angle to condemn the training.

That's bunk, it ain't SCIENCE, especially with no damn control group, it's just deliberately self-feeding and validating a preconceived notion, is all.

Not to mention that the attacker in the ABC stunt WAS an extremely well trained individual with years of instruction and practice, who probably already knew who in the room had the gun. Not really likely in an actual attack.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, December 20, 2012 9:04 AM