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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
History X in the making.
Monday, December 24, 2012 8:54 AM
WULFENSTAR
http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg
Monday, December 24, 2012 9:03 AM
M52NICKERSON
DALEK!
Quote:Originally posted by WULFENSTAR: http://abcnews.go.com/US/firefighters-shot-killed-trap-webster-ny-blaze/story?id=18055594#.UNijbeTAcoO Yeah. There are evil things (I refuse to call them human) in this world. But tell me again how being disarmed will fix everything.
Monday, December 24, 2012 12:52 PM
OLDENGLANDDRY
Monday, December 24, 2012 3:11 PM
DREAMTROVE
Tuesday, December 25, 2012 7:27 AM
NIKI2
Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...
Quote:A man who served nearly 17 years in jail for killing his grandmother set a house and car on fire this morning in upstate New York and then began shooting at emergency personnel who showed up, killing two firefighters, police said. In all, William Spengler, 62, shot four firefighters, killing two and severely injuring two more after setting his "trap," police said. An off-duty police officer from Greece, N.Y., who responded to the scene early in the morning of Christmas Eve also was injured today. "It was a trap," said Webster, N.Y., Police Chief Gerald L. Pickering, "set by Mr. Spengler who laid in wait and shot first responders." Spengler, who was released from prison in 1998, was found dead at the scene following a shootout with police. He was believed to have killed himself with a bullet to the head.
Tuesday, December 25, 2012 7:41 AM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Tuesday, December 25, 2012 9:22 AM
Tuesday, December 25, 2012 1:29 PM
Tuesday, December 25, 2012 4:37 PM
KPO
Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.
Quote:SO, do I support the Fire Chief saying every truck and shit-box should have at least a shotgun? Hell yeah.
Tuesday, December 25, 2012 8:47 PM
Quote:This does not apply to fires. Or Domestics. Or ODs. Or any of the million other things that you stupid fucktards get yourselves into. Just shootings. MAYBE stabbings.
Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:05 AM
Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:30 AM
Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:45 AM
JONGSSTRAW
Wednesday, December 26, 2012 10:00 AM
Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:30 AM
Quote:With universal military service and seemingly ubiquitous firearms, Israel and Switzerland seem heroic. In these countries, many think, the teacher really could have shot the murderer. The argument runs like this: Both Israel and Switzerland have high rates of gun ownership and low rates of gun violence. Ergo, gun control is not the answer. Conservative commentator Thomas Sowell used this trusty comparison again today when decrying the "shrill ignorance of ‘gun control' advocates." "Gun ownership has been three times as high in Switzerland as in Germany, but the Swiss have had lower murder rates," he wrote, going on to name Israel as another country with "high rates of gun ownership and low murder rates." Predictably, he's not telling the whole story. Switzerland has tight gun control laws -- and so does Israel. Here are five facts that Americans should know about the role guns play in self-defense in the United States, Switzerland, and Israel. The self-defense fallacy In all three countries, self-defensive gun use is rare. Guns are six times more likely to be used against members of a household than against intruders, according to nationwide telephonic surveys. (Nonlethal weapons such as baseball bats are 12 times more likely to be used against intruders than guns.) And guns are 10 times more likely to be used by criminals than against them. Moreover, the use of firearms for self defense is almost certainly over-reported. More than 1 million Americans each year claim to have shot criminals. If this were true, the nation's emergency rooms would be filled with nothing but foiled criminals, because over 90 percent of criminals who are shot end up in the hospital. Those who see firearms as vital for self-defense also often conflate military and civilian use. Jeanne Assam managed to halt a mass-casualty shooting at a mega-church in Colorado in 2007, but it turned out she was a former police officer who had been hired for security. Likewise, terrorist attacks in Israel have been stopped by off-duty soldiers using service weapons. Indeed, of the cases I have reviewed where Israeli or Swiss civilians supposedly used guns to prevent casualties, all involved off-duty or former soldiers or police, or went wrong when a civilian shot at someone who was not a terrorist. Fewer guns than you think Despite universal military service, Israel and Switzerland have substantially fewer guns than the United States. When you include illegal guns, the United States has about one gun per person, Switzerland has half a gun per person, and Israel has 0.07 guns per person, according to the Small Arms Survey. Half of American households have a firearm, whereas only 30 percent of all Swiss households do, and most of those are army guns, according to my analysis of the International Crime Victimization Survey (ICVS). The percentage of Swiss households that report owning guns for self-protection is in the single digits. (Israeli firearm data is not available through ICVS, but the percentage of households with a gun must be in the low single digits, given the Small Arms Survey estimate of 0.07 guns per person.) A privilege, not a right Both Israel and Switzerland put the onus on would-be gun owners to explain why they need these weapons. Israel limits gun ownership to security workers, people who transport valuables or explosives, residents of the West Bank, and hunters. People who don't fall into one of those categories cannot obtain a firearm permit. Moreover, Israel rejects 40 percent of firearm permit applicants, the highest rejection rate in the Western world. Both Switzerland and Israel require yearly (or more frequent) permit renewals to insure that the reasons are still applicable. New Jersey is one of few U.S. states that requires a reason for buying a handgun. Far from being a gun paradise, Switzerland is one of only six countries in the world that requires comprehensive details of the firearm, owner, and all firearm transfers to be reported to the federal government. It also requires two levels of firearm permits: one for acquisition and one for possession. U.S. states vary in their gun-control stricture, but many don't even require a permit to purchase a gun, and 34 U.S. states have only minimal requirements for concealed carry permits. Statistical analyses show that these "shall-issue" states have higher rates of homicide. Strict and getting stricter As stringent as Israel and Switzerland are, these countries are getting stricter. It took just one mass shooting 11 years ago in Switzerland to boost public support for gun control. Despite universal male service in the army reserves, only a quarter of Swiss households keep an army gun at home. Reserve members in many francophone cantons store their weapons in unit arsenals and town weapons depots rather than in their homes. German-speaking cantons still resist storing weapons in centralized depots, but they may pay the price in greater suicides with army weapons: Epidemiologic studies find that the cantons with lower household gun ownership have lower rates of firearm suicide and homicide-suicide. Israel, too, required soldiers to leave their weapons on base during weekend leave as part of an effort to curb military suicides that began in 2006. Since the regulations were introduced, there has been a 40 percent reduction in the weekend suicide rate, while the weekday rate remained flat. Soldiers planning to commit suicide on weekend leave were apparently thwarted by their lack of firearm access, but by the time they returned to the base, the impulse had passed, reinforcing the public health literature that suggests that reducing firearm access reduces suicide rates. Leave it to the pros More than 15 percent of U.S. households report owning a gun for self-defense purposes, compared with only about 3 percent of Swiss households, according to my analysis of ICVS data. Unlike Switzerland, Israel has well-known security concerns, but it limits security to the professionals. Universal army service entrusts every 18-21 year old soldier with a gun, but only lieutenant colonels and above can own guns after their service ends. Schools employ armed commercial security guards, but teachers haven't carried guns since the 1970s. Since its founding, Israel has had a Civil Guard that employs civilian volunteers, in part, to fight terrorism. Such an effort would seem to be an opening for civilian gun ownership, but volunteers in Israel's Civil Guard are only entitled to a gun permit after 5 years of service. The country's security policies are designed to keep amateurs from carrying guns in the street -- even amateurs who have served 3 years in the army. The bottom line Gun advocates often laud the wise and mature gun culture that prevails in Israel and Switzerland, calling for the United States to follow these countries in promoting civilian firearm access for self-protection. But they're praising a fictional version of these countries. The real Israel and Switzerland have few guns and a great many restrictions on them -- and the United States would be wise to follow their example. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/12/18/a_league_of_our_own?page=0,0
Thursday, December 27, 2012 7:52 AM
Thursday, December 27, 2012 9:12 AM
Quote:Originally posted by WULFENSTAR: Well, Niki, If the Constitution were followed... and we didnt have to constantly fight people like you for our rights... ANY man, or woman, could (and would) be armed. Imagine if a couple of teachers had legally been armed? Or a few patrons at the movies. But no. gun control works... it must! Gun free zones are safe havens for people and keep criminals away! Like I said before... I was on the fence about gun-free zones. Is the cost of being caught carrying in one of these places worth it? Fuck it. Yes it is. Because the cost of obeying you gun-control freaks could be the lives of my family, or myself. And really, you arn't worth even one drop of their blood, or mine. "None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you... YOU are locked in here with ME."
Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:02 AM
Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:41 AM
Quote:REALLY?! Gun free zones work?! Ok, you are too stupid to talk to.
Friday, December 28, 2012 6:17 AM
Quote:You completely fail to grasp Nick's point
Friday, December 28, 2012 10:33 AM
Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:29 AM
KWICKO
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)
Quote:Originally posted by WULFENSTAR: Because the cost of obeying you gun-control freaks could be the lives of my family, or myself. And really, you arn't worth even one drop of their blood, or mine.
Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:32 AM
Quote:Originally posted by WULFENSTAR: Ok. How about this. You are granted by the first amendment to speak what is on your mind. But. You can't say more than 10 words in public. Certain topics are verbotten.
Quote: "Oh but words never killed anyone!" Tell it to every dictator who gave the word to commit genocide.
Saturday, December 29, 2012 9:50 AM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Saturday, December 29, 2012 10:34 AM
Saturday, December 29, 2012 11:02 AM
Saturday, December 29, 2012 3:31 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: What we really need are those personal impenetrable force fields. It's a little box that clips on to your belt.
Saturday, December 29, 2012 7:46 PM
Quote:Originally posted by Kwicko: Quote:Originally posted by Jongsstraw: What we really need are those personal impenetrable force fields. It's a little box that clips on to your belt. Muad'did
Sunday, December 30, 2012 7:44 AM
Quote: Also, Sikh temples, movie theaters, outdoor gatherings, street corners and so on. Because that's so much better than keeping guns out of the hands of nutcases.
Quote: Clearly the only way to safeguard our freedom and liberty is to be more like China and North Korea. That is pretty much the NRA and GOP stance on this issue.
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