Unconstitutional President by AURaptor

So what. He's historic, or have you forgotten?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, January 25, 2013 2:04 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
So what. He's historic, or have you forgotten?

And unprecedented.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, January 25, 2013 4:21 PM

Animal House 2

Republicans line up and assume the position.
Obama spanks their asses with a wooden paddle.
Republicans say with grimaces 'Thank you sir. May we have another?'

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, January 25, 2013 4:55 PM

DALEK!

Next up the US Supreme Court to see if the GOPs little tricks are allowed to keep the President from making recess appointments.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, January 25, 2013 5:00 PM

Let's start another war based on lies, that will save him! C'mon Obama- let's get Iran!!!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, January 25, 2013 8:34 PM

Seven days in May is the only way. General Scott is coordinating with Ecomcon, and the Superbowl bets are all in from the JCs.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, January 25, 2013 11:56 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

A practice used by both Republican and Democratic presidents for 150 years.

Why now?

SGG

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, January 26, 2013 8:13 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

What I really love is that Obama made he appointments because of a cute little tactic by the Republicans specifically intended to KEEP him from making appointments:

Quote:
When Obama filled the vacancies on Jan. 4, 2012, Congress was on an extended holiday break. But GOP lawmakers gaveled in for a few minutes every three days just to prevent Obama from making recess appointments. The White House argued that the pro forma sessions – some lasting less than a minute – were a sham.

The Justice Department hinted that the administration would ask the Supreme Court to overturn the decision, which was rendered by three conservative judges appointed by Republican presidents

The court [owledged that the ruling conflicts with what some other federal appeals courts have heldut when recess appointments are valid, which only added to the likelihood of an appeal to the high court.

I think this is a very important decision about the separation of powers," said Carl Tobias, a constitutional law professor at Virginia's University of Richmond. "The court's reading has limited the sident's ability to counter the obstruction of appointments by a minority in the Senate that has been pretty egregious in the Obama administration

Obama made the recess appointments er Senate Republicans blocked his choices an agency they contended was biased in favor of unions. Obama claims he acted properly because the Senate was away for the holidays on a 20-day recess. Constitution allows for such appointments without Senate approval when Congress is in recess

But during that time, GOP lawmakers argued, the Senate hnically had stayed in session because it was gaveled in and out every few days so-called pro forma sessions.

GOP lawmakers used the tactic cifically to prevent the president from using his recess power to install members to the labor board and the consumer boardey had also vigorously opposed the nomination of Cordray.

Sentelle's opinion was joined by Judge Thomas Griffith, appointed to the court by President George W. Bush, and Karen LeCraft Henderson, who was appointed by President George H.W. Bush.

Obama used the recess appointment to install Deputy Labor Secretary Sharon Block, union lawyer Richard Griffin and NLRB counsel Terence Flynn fill vacancies on the labor board, giving it a full contingent for the first time in more than a yearl three vacancies on the labor board had been open for months before Obama acted to fill them.

"Throughout his presidency, ublicans have employed unprecedented partisan delay tactics and filibusters to prevent confirmation of nomineeslead the NLRB, thus crippling the board's legal authority to act," Harkin said.

If Obama's recess appointment of Cordray to the newly created consumer board is eventually ruled invalid, it could lify all the regulations the consumer board has issued, many of which affect the mortgage business]More at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/25/obama-labor-board_n_2550788.h
tml

So there's a more complete picture. The Republican Congress played a cute trick (which SHOULD be unconstitutional) to deliberately keep Obama from making appointments which they had blocked, and when he appointed them anyway, three judges appointed by Republicans (in other words, Republican judges) called his actions unconstitutional. Not only do they manage to give Obama a (at least temporary) black eye, but they get to poke at any union efforts and keep the banks safe from mortgage regulation.

Politics at its best. Works for them!

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, January 26, 2013 8:23 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Next up the US Supreme Court to see if the GOPs little tricks are allowed to keep the President from making recess appointments.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

He IS allowed, but not when the Congress isn't in recess.

That's kinda the whole point here.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, January 26, 2013 8:24 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Let's start another war based on lies, that will save him! C'mon Obama- let's get Iran!!!

There was a war based on lies started before ?

When?

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, January 26, 2013 9:03 AM

America loves a winner!

Yeah.Heaven forbid that the courts or ANYONE dare to oppose his Oneness, Obama.

I see Niki has decided to junk this thread and start an entirely different thread, to go on the offensive,( I suppose ) as if that'll change any of the facts.

It won't.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, January 26, 2013 3:31 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
He IS allowed, but not when the Congress isn't in recess.

That's kinda the whole point here.

...and the GOP using tricks to keep Congress out of an official recess. Why not? They abused the hell out of the filibuster. The GOP does not want to govern, they simply want to give the President a hard time regardless of the country. As a group they are a bunch of whinny children who are very sore losers.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, January 26, 2013 6:21 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
...and the GOP using tricks to keep Congress out of an official recess. Why not?

Actually, the U.S. Court of Appeals, D.C. Circuit ruled that any recess appointments other than at the recess at the end of the year are unconstitutional. So even if the Republicans hadn't kept Congress in session over the short holday recess when Pres. Obama made an appointment, that appointment would still have been invalid.

Be interesting to see what the other Appeals Courts, and possibly the Supremes, have to say.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:52 PM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Actually, the U.S. Court of Appeals, D.C. Circuit ruled that any recess appointments other than at the recess at the end of the year are unconstitutional. So even if the Republicans hadn't kept Congress in session over the short holday recess when Pres. Obama made an appointment, that appointment would still have been invalid.

Be interesting to see what the other Appeals Courts, and possibly the Supremes, have to say.

If that is the case...WOW! How does that even make sense? Even more so with the Legislative Reorganization Act of 1970.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 7:12 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
He IS allowed, but not when the Congress isn't in recess.

That's kinda the whole point here.

...and the GOP using tricks to keep Congress out of an official recess. Why not? They abused the hell out of the filibuster. The GOP does not want to govern, they simply want to give the President a hard time regardless of the country. As a group they are a bunch of whinny children who are very sore losers.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

Traitors, is what they are. Party over country, every goddamned time. To hell with them all (and their lapdogs like rappy).

Doubly so for this partisan hack judge - the same fucker who brought us Ken Starr, and tried to get Ollie North off. He's a disgrace to the robe.

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Doubly so for this partisan hack judge - the same fucker who brought us Ken Starr, and tried to get Ollie North off. He's a disgrace to the robe.

Amen to that, there's no hell too deep for Ollie, none whatever.
I do dispute the Treason comment, as it's definition in the Constitution is very specific - not that they've not betrayed their oath and all, which should have them impeached, just that it doesn't meet the proper definition of Treason, is all.

-F

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 10:05 AM

I agree with Story.

Seems if you're not right enough, you can't get away with shit like the bush babies did.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 11:57 AM

Everything Bush did was legal.

He wanted to invade Afghanistan & Iraq.... he got Congressional approval for both.

He wanted to listen to your phone calls without warrants....Congress passed Patriot Act.

He wanted to waterboard enemy combatants at Gitmo....Justice Dept. said no problemo

He made recess appointments....he made them when Congress was actually in recess.

Plus, he wasn't a ....Hawaiian.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 1:36 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Everything Bush did was legal.

He wanted to invade Afghanistan & Iraq.... he got Congressional approval for both.

He wanted to listen to your phone calls without warrants....Congress passed Patriot Act.

He wanted to waterboard enemy combatants at Gitmo....Justice Dept. said no problemo

He made recess appointments....he made them when Congress was actually in recess.

Hard for the Obama-bots to grasp such concepts.

The MSM doesn't give them that info, so they're not capable of understanding the difference.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 2:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Everything Bush did was legal.

Everything's legal when your friends in power say it is. That's just the way it works. The whole concept of 'a president' is legal bullshit for "Hey- HE did it!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 2:04 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Everything Bush did was legal.
Everything's legal when your friends in power say it is. That's just the way it works. The whole concept of 'a president' is legal bullshit for "Hey- HE did it!"

You're still not grasping the difference.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 4:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Everything Bush did was legal.
Everything's legal when your friends in power say it is. That's just the way it works. The whole concept of 'a president' is legal bullshit for "Hey- HE did it!"

President Obama too, right? Or does your "whole concept of a president as legal bullshit" only apply to Republicans?

Now, respond to the claxon or I'll have you arrested!

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 5:55 PM

Quote:
why can't we all be friends?

Because you, and the policies you support, are a dagger at my throat, a threat to me personally, my life and existence, and all that I believe.

Worse, they're Unconstitutional, in direct violation to all this country stands for, and those baiting you stupid, gullible, ignorant fools into supporting them will be the very first to throw you under the bus the instant they should ever get the Fascist coup they've wanted since the very beginning - they have to, because being that stupid and gullible means that someone else could troll you into becoming a lever to then push THEM out of power.

Not to mention such betrayal is in the NATURE of the folks you're supporting - did you not even WATCH the show ?
Tell me, what was Jaynes "reward" in Ariel ?
What was Mr Universes "reward" in Serenity ?
Do you expect any better ?

Of course, I could care less what happens to you, but when you decide you're gonna wrap that chain around MY ankles too - why would you then be surprised if I wanna throttle you with it ?

Quote:
but isn't the idea of being a browncoat you leave me alone and I'll leave you alone?

But. You. DON'T.
You WON'T.

The policies and party you support wants to cram their fucking religion down my throat, practically cram a probe up my ass... tell me again WHICH party created DepHomeSec, TSA, and the airport grope-fest, conducted massive illegal surveillence of people who did no more than dare disagree with them, or be the wrong color, or the wrong spiritual, political, cultural belief ?

You know what Department of Homeland Security translates to in Cyrillic ?
Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti
Also known as, the KGB.
Which does the same shit - and YOU, and the people YOU support, created it.

Hell you and yours can't even leave people well enough alone to decide what to do with their own BODY, to decide on medical procedures, who they wanna be with, any of it!

Quote:
I mean really Bush wasn't a popilar president for his choices but he did what he thought would be best for america...

No he didn't, he did what he thought was best for George Bush, and to hell with the rest of us, to hell with the Constitution, to hell with the rule of law, or even basic moral decency.

Quote:
Obama made his share (four years) of bad decisions, but they are what he thinks would be best for america...

Bullshit, Obama does what he thinks is best for Obama, and to hell with the rest of us, to hell with the Constitution, to hell with the rule of law, or even basic moral decency.

Sorry, adding more shells to the shell game still don't mean the pebble is under any of em, and while less blatant about it, less offensive in the MANNER of it, there's still that he for the most part continued the policies which offend me so - giving your loyalties to these cretins is like playing cards with the sharpers marked deck, at his table, by his rules - to expect anything but the shaft is asinine.

Quote:
I feel like some of you democrats are far to defensive, and frankly noone wants to hear you ramble on about how amazing your god and savior, Obama is.

Oh cry me a goddamn river - they had to hear your sycophantic slobbering as you practically fellated George Bush doing the same shit and worse, and then watch as you turn around and denied it in your abject double-think hypocrisy, and then have little temper-tantrums when Obama did the same crap cause YOUR only problem with it is the creep holding the leash, not the fact that you're on one.

And frankly that whole lord-and-savior bullshit is a total construction of fiction, a fantasy which only desperate morons like you indulge in to deny responsibility for your own conduct, or excuse your inexcusable ignorance and malice.

Quote:
why can't we just get along

Because YOU, and the people and policies YOU support, will not allow it.

Do you really think folks are going to play nice when you threaten all that ever mattered to them as a matter of course, do you think folks would not resist these constant tramplings of their rights, their privacy, their very consciousness and belief ?
Or that they would not hate YOU for cheerleading it ?

Don't whine to ME about the natural consequences of your own actions you bloody brownshirt.

Quote:
I am sure that the founding fathers didn't want us fighting like this over one person.

You'd prolly be surprised then, since Hamilton was his own eras version of Dick Cheney, if not worse, Madison was a naive and idealistic fool played by them to allay suspicions which were entirely well founded, Jay was a greedy amoral sociopath and religious bigot (he wanted Catholics barred from public office) and instrumental in loopholing the proposed Constitution to allow the Judicial branch (i.e. HIM) to ignore or overturn laws without proper check against it, and John Adams was a corrupt, mean-spirited sumbitch who holds the awful distinction of pushing through the very first attempt at some bullshit like The Patriot Act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts

The Federalists, you see, didn't REALLY want to dispose of Feudalism, they wanted a NEW Feudalism with THEMSELVES at the head of it - wasn't the leash which bothered them so much as the fact that THEY were not the ones holding it.

This has not changed, from the Federalists all the way down to Modern Republicans, they've always first and foremost been Neo-Feudo-Fascist motherfuckers who see anyone who isn't THEM as mere peons to be ruled and exploited - and if some of those peons are stupid enough, gullible enough, ignorant enough, to support it, so much the better - FOR THEM.

So, no - we can't get along, your actions, the people and policies you support make that an absolutely ludicrous idea, and if you think the DEMOCRATS hate your guts for it...
Well, crossing irons on this with an Anarchist is gonna be an important life lesson for you, I think, would that you might learn from it.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 6:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by River_Tam:
Hey, I am very republican and very conservative, I am also probably younger than al of you, though my age will remain confidential, and can I just ask one thing, why can't we all be friends? While browncoats in Firefly are more likely than not republicans, and Obama is a crazy nut job as well as many democrats are... but isn't the idea of being a browncoat you leave me alone and I'll leave you alone? I mean really Bush wasn't a popilar president for his choices but he did what he thought would be best for america, Obama made his share (four years) of bad decisions, but they are what he thinks would be best for america, I feel like some of you democrats are far to defensive, and frankly noone wants to hear you ramble on about how amazing your god and savior, Obama is. We really don't, but why can't we just get along, I mean really people. We all live in the same country, I am sure that the founding fathers didn't want us fighting like this over one person.

Hi River Tam,
I see that Fremdfirma has responded to your nice post with a nice warm welcome of his own. If any of it bothers you in any way, it shouldn't. He perfectly encapsulated what one can expect in the RWED area. I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong, just that it is what it is. Good luck!

ps.

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Quote:
why can't we all be friends?

Because you, and the policies you support, are a dagger at my throat, a threat to me personally, my life and existence, and all that I believe.

Betcha never imagined you were a dagger at someone's throat. Best I ever got was a spork.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 6:26 PM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Hard for the Obama-bots to grasp such concepts.

The MSM doesn't give them that info, so they're not capable of understanding the difference.

Who needs the MSM? I am not impressed by the actual decision by the D.C. Court of Appeals.

The legal reasoning in this case was laughable. Chief Justice David B. Sentelle wrote the decision. Sentelle was appointed by Reagan to replace Antonin Scalia on the D.C. Court of Appeals. I'm sure the Supreme Court, except Scalia and Clarence Thomas, won't be amused when it reviews what Sentelle wrote to please Mitch McConnell & John Boehner, who are amicus curiae.

A paragraph:

Quote:
It is this difference between the word choice “recess” and “the Recess” that first draws our attention....[In 1787], as now, the word “the” was and is a definite article. [...] Unlike “a” or “an,” that definite article suggests specificity. As a matter of cold, unadorned logic, it makes no sense to adopt the Board’s proposition that when the Framers said “the Recess,” what they really meant was “a recess.” This is not an insignificant distinction. In the end it makes all the difference.

from page 17 of the court's opinion www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/D13E4C2A7B33B57A85257AFE00
556B29/%24file/12-1115-1417096.pdf

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 6:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Hi River Tam,
I see that Fremdfirma has responded to your nice post with a nice warm welcome of his own. If any of it bothers you in any way, it shouldn't. He perfectly encapsulated what one can expect in the RWED area. I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong, just that it is what it is. Good luck!

Ayep, and a very... WARM... welcome it was.

Meh heh heh - welcome to the sharkpit that is RWED, as Jongsie says, it is what it is, and if you've got the grit to stand and fight without some hand holding moderator to protect you, you might learn a lot here, not just about others, but also about yourself and what you believe, this place is a bit of a crucible, but they forge fine steel that way, don't you know.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 7:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Hi River Tam,
I see that Fremdfirma has responded to your nice post with a nice warm welcome of his own. If any of it bothers you in any way, it shouldn't. He perfectly encapsulated what one can expect in the RWED area. I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong, just that it is what it is. Good luck!

Ayep, and a very... WARM... welcome it was.

Meh heh heh - welcome to the sharkpit that is RWED, as Jongsie says, it is what it is, and if you've got the grit to stand and fight without some hand holding moderator to protect you, you might learn a lot here, not just about others, but also about yourself and what you believe, this place is a bit of a crucible, but they forge fine steel that way, don't you know.

-Frem

Yes, you're quite the humanitarian.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, January 28, 2013 9:18 PM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by River_Tam:
While browncoats in Firefly are more likely than not republicans...

Um. No.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 29, 2013 1:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

President Obama too, right?

Of course.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 29, 2013 7:42 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I'd like to say "welcome, Tam", but you make it a bit difficult. If you read your post and tried to be objective, hopefully you'd see that it's totally one sided, chiding AND derrogating the Democrats, which must include those of us here, and saying Browncoats must be Republicans. I'm not going to make such judgments about Browcoats, as we are a very diverse group. But it certainly doesn't start you off on the right foot.

As to RWED, if you'd been here any length of time, you'd have had a chance to see the truly vile things with which right wingers here have attacked left wingers. It's a two-way street, sometimes weighted more to the right, sometimes more to the left. Some of our most vicious right winters aren't here right now; I've been told this happens frequently after an election. They'll be back, no doubt, and if you're still around, you'll see it's certainly not one-sided.

Yes, it's pretty obvious you're young by what you wrote. I'm not about to engage with you, given your obvious bias, and I'm sorry Frem let you get under his skin so badly.

...wait a minute. I just re-read your post: "your god and savior"? That is STRAIGHT out of Raptor's playbook, as is your spelling of "noone", which makes me very suspicious. That thing about "leaving people alone" is a totally falacious interpretation of Mal's attitude; Mal CERTAINLY wouldn't be trying to legislate a woman's choice about her body, now would he? Nor do I believe for a second that he'd be out there starting wars (and by the way, this is no "war", this is a free-flowing discussion forum, if you hadn't noticed). I don't think I'm willing to accept you as a separate individual at this time, given that I strongly suspect you are a Raptor sockpuppet.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:36 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Okay, having checked, I see you've been here a while and have posted extensively elsewhere. So I will refrain from dismissing you as a sockpuppet and address you as if you are an actual individual. I don't generally hold grudges and make a sincere attempt to respond to people according to their posts; my opinion hasn't been "soured" on anyone except those who consistently post in the same negative or attacking manner.

Your bias is what gets you the responses you do, simple as that. If you arrive here denegrating EITHER side, people will speak up in anger and dismiss what you say as the bias it represents. "Some of my closest friends are democrats" won't win you any friends; I can only guess you are so young as to not know how that sounds and how it has been used in the past with regard to Jews, African Americans, and virtually any other segment of society by those who know nothing of what they speak.

You don't want beliefs thrust on you. Then how do you feel about it only being Republicans who keep trying to get religion taught in schools, who in some cases have denied science be taught in schools and instead insist only Creationism be taught? How do you feel about them insisting this is a Christian country and denegrating all other religions extensively? I'm buddhist, can you imagine how that makes me--or ANYONE who is not a Christian--feel?

I'd also like to ask--oh, I see you removed your previous post. We don't encourage that here, it's pretty unfair if you think about it. If you post something here, it's like speaking; you can't take back what you say, and you're responsible for what you say. I for one would appreciate it if you'd refrain from doing so in the future; it also leaves anyone coming along later both confused and unable to know what went on before. It's kind of like cheating, not being willing to stand by your statements.

So I can only try to remember what you said, which bothers me. But from what I recall, you said Obama did what he did in hopes of improving the country and avoiding war (paraphrased, of course). Let me ask you: Are we in any better shape now than we were when Bush left, which reflected the policies he put in place? Are we in MORE wars, or fewer wars, than Bush got us into? I'm confused as to why you said what you did, if you are truly aware of the state of the country, and how you could say Obama doing what he did "didn't work", given on just the war issue, we're out of Iraq and getting out of Afghanistan, and have engaged in no further wars. Respectfully, I think your view reflect a lack of information, and perhaps reflects your parents' beliefs, since you mentioned your mother saying Obama committed "murder". My parents were staunch Republicans; it was only when I was old enough to see that what they said didn't match what was real that I started thinking for myself.

It's easier when young to see things in a black-and-white way; with age come nuances which make it much harder to condemn

You wrote "I only said Obama did what he thought america needed to pacify you and prevent war". What do you mean by "you"? Did you write what you did to pacify someone here, or are you saying Obama did what he thought would pacify Democrats? If the latter, I think your knowledge is missing a lot, if the former, then you're not being honest, which is the only way to deal with people here if you want to be respected.

This is a hot forum; we always warn people about that and say if you can't handle it, you shouldn't be here. Tempers flare and just about all of us have given in to frustration and anger at some point, whether Republican, Democrat, or whatever else. You stated "I thought I would have a civil conversation with a democrat" if they were a Browncoat. Browncoats come in all shapes, sizes, races, genders and political beliefs; being Browncoats doesn't make us some kind of uniform species. It has long been my contention that I would LOVE to have a reasonable, thinking Republican here with whom I could debate civilly. If you wish to be one of those, I guarantee you will find many here who will have civil converse with you. Frem is one person; to judge "Democrats" (which he is not) by him is, I hope you can see, totally illogical.

I'm going to give you just a couple of examples of what our most cantankerous Republican here has said, then leave this thread. I hope you can give the following some thought, next time you have a desire to talk about "screaming matches":

Quote:
Raptor, 11/09/2012: "O's sole purpose in life is to destroy this country. I fucking hate the bastard.... He's destroying the USA, that should be enough to make the rest of US cry. I'm not swayed by this man-child's crocodile tears. He's not my Holy of Holies. He's only divided us more. Color me not impressed, one bit.... He doesn't love this country. How could he ? His wife was NEVER proud of it, until HE was nominated by the Dems for Prez. And then HE said he wants to FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE it.... He loves taking from those HE thinks have made too much, and give to those he chooses, you know... to spread the WEALTH around.... him. " http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53498]

Raptor on the Gulf spill: “Mr. President--you're a god damn, mother fucking liar. Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.... oh, go fuck yourself, Mr. President”

Raptor, March 12, 2008: “We don't torture.... WE DON'T DO THAT, MORON. ... Frem, you're a liar, a moron and an idiot”

I didn't start keeping the links until last year, and I haven't saved that many quotes anyway, just a few that struck me. But here's how I'VE been treated by our avowed right-wingers here:
Quote:
SixString, 6/28/2012: "Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps.... I make a completely legitimate post that even you can wholly agree with, but you ignore me because you're just a bitch..."
http://168.215.229.9/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=52327&mid=902582
_________________________________

Wulf, Actually, Niki. You, and yours, are a dying breed. Feel that? Its age creeping up on you. Hurts a little more getting up in the morning, doesn't it? Thank GOD, you and your kind are finally starting to die off. Its just a matter of time. "Getting old, but still a hippie at heart..."

And considering that you and your kind are so spoiled and selfish that you couldn't even conceive of having children (THANK GOD), your philosophy is finally fucking dying.

Its up to those of us who suffered through your generations assclownery to rule the world. And many of us, have figured out that your life-style, belief-system, idiocy were false.

You die, your sick beliefs die with you. And the world is better for it.

Hurry up already.

As for my daughter. Watch your mouth you stupid fucking bitch.
___________________________________

Wulf, 3/30/2012: "barren succubus", http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=51450&mid=8
90266.
__________________________________________

Kane: "Niki--condescending arrogant fat old bi-polar hag .... You are an asshole ... one does not need a sockpuppet to tell you to fuck off".... eat shit you big government whore .... I do hate you ... You are an arrogant douche” ... “you fucking fat twinkie eating, money stealing whore” “but what else should I expect from a fucking shit-eating libtard mind. Now go do your research you fucking idiot”...”You are an old whore... fuck off” “You filthy dirty rotten old hag. You are an old cunt of a women. Go sit on a bike with no seat. Read what I just wrote, again, once more.....now go die”...”She is talking out of her old fat ass. Who is the bigger fucking idiot...you or that fat old white-haired, Buddhist, vegetable loving, hemp wearing, chronic masturbator?”...”I tell two douche bags that they are either gay or a stupid whore)...just a girl telling liberal idiots to fuck themselves. How is that trolling? You need to reevaluate your last two posts...or eat dick...or a lot of dicks....” "My guess is it won't just be your ugly face you dislike....if you had a soul.”

PirateNews: "Yes niki, you're Taliban. You can't be anything-ovich though, you have to be -ovna or -ova Nikita Nicovna Talibani. You are a triple agent, you clearly work for al Qaeda, the Mossad, and Obama Sotero Hussein of the Mao Mao rebels. Your mission here is to uncover the true identity of firefly posters, and their secret agendas, or is it agendae. Although, at times, when tracking down the wild whozit, you feel a bit like you have been sent on a false lead by Maxwell Smart."

So what do you think now of your Republican friends? Be civil to others, and some will be civil to you, be they right or left. Come in dissing and bad-mouthing one side, the other side will rise up. Simple as that. Now I will make a sincere effort not to engage further in this aspect of the discussion.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 29, 2013 9:21 AM

Ha, that wasn't a screaming match, that was me tearing a strip offa you - helpful hint: It was *intended* to be offensive, to rub your nose in the natural consequences of your own actions, something which I think needs to happen to folk more often no matter who they are - and to see what you're made of.

Don't like it ?
Maybe ya shouldn't oughta supported the positions and persons you did, then.
If mere profanity bothers you such much I can dispense with it, but believe me, that won't make things any more civil, or me any nicer about it - since you've obviously the grit to not flee in terror I shall refrain for the time being, if you wish.

Point of fact: I am not a Democrat - I am an Anarchist.
Say it with me now, AN-ARCH-IST, yes ?
And not the happy fluffy pacifist kind, either.

Which means I don't care any more for the Democrats ramming THEIR notions down my chops any more than I do Republicans, or even certain Greens or Libertarians for that matter - but the latter lack the consistency and focus necessary to make it the scale of the problem that is with the GOP.

In regards to civility, you're not coming off as civil, you're coming off as patronizing and offensive, which will provoke response in kind, believe it.

I am all for the merits of leaving well the hell enough alone, and following the least harm principle, but I am no pacifist in word or deed, and frankly if you really, truly wish for mutual respect you might consider not aligning yourself with persons and parties which do not practice it, since if that is how you feel the GOP has certainly betrayed and not respected those principles whatever, if they ever even did.

That aside, I am a lot more reasonable than you might assume, and now that we've dispensed with the preliminaries you might clarify your position if you wanna argue it.

-Frem

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:05 AM

America loves a winner!

Because what the left believes in is nothing but Alliance grade go-se, and counters everything for what this country was founded.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:31 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Because what the left believes in is nothing but Alliance grade go-se, and counters everything for what this country was founded.

This from a man who's only understand of the left comes from Fox news.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:50 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Because what the left believes in is nothing but Alliance grade go-se, and counters everything for what this country was founded.

This from a man who's only understand of the left comes from Fox news.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

Correction: All he knows about ANYTHING come from Fox....

Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.

"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:53 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Because what the left believes in is nothing but Alliance grade go-se, and counters everything for what this country was founded.

This from a man who's only understand of the left comes from Fox news.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

Noting the simplistic, naive filter in which you view others.

See, you have it 180 degrees backwards. I don't like FOX because it's occasionally conservative.

FOX exists because there are conservatives like me out in the 'verse who grew tired of the unabashed Left wing partisanship of the MSM.

I was conservative long before FOX.

"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul with evil." - Socrates

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:48 AM

DALEK!

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Noting the simplistic, naive filter in which you view others.

See, you have it 180 degrees backwards. I don't like FOX because it's occasionally conservative.

FOX exists because there are conservatives like me out in the 'verse who grew tired of the unabashed Left wing partisanship of the MSM.

I was conservative long before FOX.

You being conservative before FOX news does not mean anything in regards with you getting your information from FOX now. If you had any type of brain you could have understood that my argument was not that you were conservative because you watch FOX, but simply that you are under-informed because you do.

FOX exists and is a big as it is not because of some left wing slant but because folks like yourself can't except any fact that does not fit your beliefs. You can't look into the mirror of self reflection.

Nothing shows this more that the GOP asking for a report to show how the Bush Tax cuts affected the economy. When that report indicated that the cuts had no impact at all they muzzled the report.

There are plenty of conservatives that will self evaluate and use fact to form their views. You are not one of them. You are a lot like a book. No matter what people say to you, what you say never changes.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 30, 2013 5:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

I was conservative long before FOX.

Really? Then what happened? I mean, how did you get from Conservative to Extreme Right Wing zealot? Do you mean FOX pushed you there? I'm not clear on this...

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 30, 2013 6:55 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Your remark about what your mother said was in another thread. If I recall correctly, it was about Benghazi, and you said something to the effect that you thought what Obama did was treasonous, your mother said it was murder. I just glanced through some of your posts on non-Firefly issues and saw that. I tend to look up people who show up here out of the blue who might be sockpuppets (there's a bit of that which goes on here), and I saw you both had been here a while and posted a lot outside RWED. Given I rarely venture forth from RWED, I wasn't previously aware of that, and your use of some of Rap's phraseology made me suspicious. Looking you up solved that suspicion.

By the way, you didn't repost your original post, you reiterated one of the things you said about Browncoats being Republicans, but there was a LOT more to it than that, and it was quite anti-Democrat and anti-Obama. If you would put back up what you took down, that would be nice, but of course it's up to you. People who come in later will probably not understand why this discussion is what it is, but so be it.

Yes, RWED IS a very contentious place. Not always, but when it comes to politics, religion, guns, climate change and a few other topics, it can get quite heated. Like I said, we warn new people of the dangers and that if they think they can't hack it, they should protect themselves by not being here. That can only be up to the individual to decide; some of us relish going toe to toe; some of us (me) enjoy debating and keep trying to do so here (frequently unsuccessfully); some of us come here to "let it all hang out" as we can't IRL; some of us come here for social interaction (me again); everyone has their reasons and I'll leave others to explain theirs if they want to.

For the most part we welcome ALL new voices, the more the merrier, but if they come in castigating people or being obviously politically prejudice, it usually gets a negative reaction. If you have a thin skin, it can be dangerous here. It's all up to the individual. I don't have much interest in discussing Firefly or writing Fanfic--for me Firefly exists as it is and this is actually one of only two fan websites I've ever been on (the other having been a now-defunct Firefly site as well), it's something I'm not normally interested in. But RWED caught my interest and I've been here ever since, I like most of the people, they're intelligent, and I appreciate it. I wish it WERE less contentious and the opportunity for fair debate were more, but again, it is what it is. Nobody can change it; for a long while (as you can see by my signature) I've tried off and on to plead for more civility, but I always get called controlling or hypocritical or something. Nobody here can hurt me, as only words can be thrown around, but if words can hurt you, this isn't the place to be. It's all up to you; I'd be sad to see you disappear, but only you know what's right for you.

Personally, I get the feeling you are quite young and we might be able to help you see more of the nuances of life; I've had numerous on-line young friends of long standing who came into a forum of mostly older people, and they've benefitted from it and we've benefitted from their points of view. But protecting yourself must come first on the internet, at all times.

Tit for tat got us where we are today. If we want to be grownups, we need to resist the ugliness. If we each did, this would be a better reflection on Firefly and a more welcome place. I will try.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:00 AM

HKCAVALIER

Um. Just to be clear: Democrats AND Republicans would be Alliance. Or Republicans would be Blue Sun. Inara might be registered, but prolly Democrat. Mal? Not on your life, either way. I'll give ya Jayne, he's a no-brainer (ha). The Tams, well, their parents would prolly be Republicans, but Simon fairly screams NPR and Rachel Maddow. River, N/A. She's prolly ineligible to vote anyway. Wash and Zoe? I don't think so. Kaylee? Maybe, I hope not. And the good Shepherd? Guy's a freakin' Buddhist, are you kidding me?

So, what we got? At BEST you've got Jayne and Kaylee as non-practicing Republicans. The rest are all Anarchists and goodie-two-shoes, so...no, most Browncoats would not be Republicans.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 30, 2013 9:14 AM