Okay, ARE we friends? by Niki2

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Okay, ARE we friends?

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, May 17, 2013 16:33
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VIEWED: 921
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Friday, May 17, 2013 6:24 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

This from Byte, and my question regarding it is: What are your opinions?

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Originally by Byte:
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Niki: Which is why "anarchistic" and "society" don't go together. Societies with no appointed leader DO NOT SURVIVE, simple as that, because not all humans will take responsibility. They never will, in the real world where they can physically touch each other. That's reality.

This society HAS survived. This board, right here. We have emotional investments, we have been touched, moved, we have cared, we have affected each other.

It's not physical. But it's still important. And it's in danger of teetering over the edge.
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THAT'S NOT A SOCIETY. A society is where everyone is in one way or another dependent on others; we're not dependent on one another for anything.
Of course we are. Most people in this world NEED friendship, and can't survive without it. You might go off line for yours and dismiss what we have here, but I don't.

What keeps us here isn't the yelling, the insults, the arguments. Without friendship, those are just shouting in the dark with no one to hear. What keeps us here, is that feeling of belonging when someone agrees with us, or when an exchange connects two of us and reminds of our basic humanity and decency.

These are not small things. Really, they're some of the more important things I can think of, second only to food, air, and water.
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Second {regarding the Jong thread-fest}, DID it actually "impede the ability of people to navigate the board and hold conversations"?
Yes, for a number of people it did.

And as for Jong, I'm not wrong until he says I am.
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{This is in reference to a discussion at http://beta.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=54929 about Byte having upset by something I wrote} and apparently sensitive enough to be severely affected by a chance remark.
You rejected my friendship. Technically, you're still rejecting my friendship, and I did consider the two of us friends. It made me sad. And I felt terrible, and blamed myself for it coming to that - and I deserved that blame, as it's not like I didn't contribute to this. I certainly didn't give you any reason to trust me, not acting out the way I was and with how insecure I was and am.

I've come to terms that you don't want to be my friend. Or even as you say that not everyone on the board will be friends with each other. But that doesn't mean we have to let the RWED become what it has.

Do you consider the people here your friends, and if so, why, and if not, why not?

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Friday, May 17, 2013 6:37 AM

BYTEMITE

Obviously I do. I talk to you all like every day except when I'm on break because I'm in a mood about something. I care about what's going on in your lives, I care about your opinions and what you think and what you're interested in. I get upset by stuff you say now and then and snark and spit fire sometimes, but if one of you was in trouble I'd help you.

Internet arguments are important, and I regret if I ever said otherwise or if it sounded like I mean otherwise. Because arguments in real life are important, because arguments in real life can sometimes change how our society works. But people are MORE important.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 7:12 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Dunno.

There are many people here I agree with. Many I disagree with, but respect their opinion. Many people here I like, at least the voice they project. Can't say I've met lotsa folks here who I'd like to meet up with, based on shared interests.

But some I'd love to meet. Like you, for instance, and your dogs. But then I love dogs, especially big, goofy ones. And I'm a Northern California kid, I know about you folks in Marin county. And funny thing, I'd like to meet 6ix. What he posted the other day suggested to me that he and I share some common background in computers and technology.

And there are some folks here, I worry about how they'll respond to something I post. Or I post something aimed right at them, because of something they've posted, hoping that they'll enjoy it.

Suppose it depends on exactly what your definition of friend is.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 7:32 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I think this is a generational divide. Younger people accustomed to interacting on the inet consider this as friendship. But for older people, unless you have hugged someone and shared a meal, you're not a friend. As for me, I talk about the people here as my "internet buddies". But I won't do yardwork for an internet buddy, and they won't watch my child for a moment, we won't cover each other's backs at work, or go out and play tennis together. So this is a kind of frienship... I have my discussion-buddies here, but my tennis-friends elsewhere.

The other question is: Is this a society? Well, is Simcity a society? Is Planet Arkadia? In my opnion, no. What draws a society together is mutual economic dependence.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 7:37 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Byte, interestingly

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I care about what's going on in your lives, I care about your opinions and what you think and what you're interested in.

That goes for me, too. As does

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There are many people here I agree with. Many I disagree with, but respect their opinion. Many people here I like, at least the voice they project.

But neither of those quotes makes anyone my "friend". Maybe the whole thing comes down to what NewOld says

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it depends on exactly what your definition of friend is.

Maybe that should have been my question.

Because to me, a friend is someone I would confide in and trust to keep that confidence; someone whose confidence I would keep, even if it was a bit difficult for me; someone I would go out of my way to help, if it actually COST me (effort, money, etc.). I'll go out of my way to help someone on the side of the road, but that doesn't mean they're my friend, and there's only so FAR out of my way I'd go for someone who's not a friend. I opened our home to Choey, who I'd only known on line for ten years; it's had it's good and bad parts, but I considered her my "friend" when I made the offer, and I still do, tho' she's strained that friendship a couple of times. A friend is someone I will got to GREAT lengths to sort things out with, if we have problems (which is what made me question that I was getting to involved, when the Frem thing happened), and someone I will forgive even if they hurt me.

An ACQUAINTANCE, on the other hand, is anyone I talk to and enjoy talking to. They can be someone I may share some interests with but whose personality doesn't particularly interest me enough to pursue it further. Or someone I don't particularly like but can be civil to in discourse and who might help me learn something. Or even someone I very much do NOT like, but am in the same group with; in which case I either keep my mouth shut at times, disagree with them, or downright mock them or argue with them.

It can be someone whose intelligence I respect but don't know very well and never get the chance to know better. It can be someone I see virtually every day (like the checker at the supermarket) and am friendly with, but we know nothing about each other. Acquaintances can't hurt me (emotionally) and I will continue to know them even if they do something which might have hurt me from a friend, but I will never trust them and we will most likely never become real friends. That can change if they make amends or if I can UNDERSTAND why they did what they did. The difference between acquaintance and friend is complex, I see as I write this...where it goes from one to the other, and obviously it can go backwards as well.

I find I'm getting excited to see how people respond to this thread; I see now that the definition of "friend" is very subjective. If many people here join this discussion, I think we might learn a lot. Or not, but it's interesting.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 7:43 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Thank you, Sig, that's interesting and helps me. Makes sense; but immediately makes me sad, when all the implications of the internet and non-face-to-face interaction hits me! Makes me wonder what's coming in the future; I don't think I need to rattle on about all the potential questions that opens up, you know what I mean!

Hugging and sharing a meal isn't it for me, I've hugged people I've just met and shared meals with many strangers, but I take your point. But I agree with your other criteria.

I think I'll start a thread about society, too...it may not interest anyone, but yeah, I find that an interesting question, too. And I agree, "What draws a society together is mutual economic dependence", except I would go so far as to take out the word "economic".

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Friday, May 17, 2013 7:50 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Thank you Niki for that lucid description of friendship. We interact with each other on so many different levels and activities. There are far too many kinds of interactions to be categorized by one word ("friend"). People hang together because of mutually enjoyable activities.... sewing, gaming, gardening, bicycling or whatever. People hang together because of mutual commitment ... colleagues, families, armed service. People brush by each other lightly every day, and their relationship to each other is simply not to piss the other person off. In the grid whose axes can be described as "frequency", "commitment", "enjoyment" there are bound to be interactions which defy description.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 8:16 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Well, yours was even better than mine, in my opinion.

"People brush by each other lightly every day, and their relationship to each other is simply not to piss the other person off" made me giggle. Jim and I have never forgotten a column by one of our favorite columnists...yes, the Jon Carroll I sometimes post...in which he made some remark about when we people pass one another on the street (or in this case, I think it was on hiking trails). We smile, and sometimes nod or murmur "hi" or "morning" or something. Whatever we murmur, he wrote, both parties recognize it translates to "I choose not to kill you today" -- in other words, "I'm harmless, you're safe, we acknowledge one another safely" or somesuch. Never forgot that...how right on is that?

I HAVE to get off the damned computer, I've been enjoying myself since I got back from the airport at 6 this morning (!), so I'm going to MAKE myself get off and not come back, and be very interested to see who has responded in these two threads and what they have to say.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 8:28 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I think this is a generational divide. Younger people accustomed to interacting on the inet consider this as friendship. But for older people, unless you have hugged someone and shared a meal, you're not a friend.

Hey, I resemble that remark. I'm freakin 62, fer Gods' sake.

There are a lot of humorous answers of course. "A friend is someone who will help you hide the body."

Somebody once wrote, " a friend is a person who, when you NEED help, will come and HELP." Sometimes, without you asking first. Or, "a friend is someone who, when you need money, will give/loan it to you." Not in the sense of a bank, charging you interest.

Maybe has something to do with sharing- money, food, experiences good or bad.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 8:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There was a famously crusty old lady ... whose name of course escapes me... who was inveigled into one of those group "Let's get together to get better acquainted" events. Well, she was introduced to someone with whom she had a well-known mutual antipathy. The idea was that if they knew each other better they would become great friends and of course work together more productively. She said "I choose not to know more about you, because right now, that's the only thing that's keeping me from hating you. Let's just keep our distance so we can be only moderately annoyed with each other" I laughed out loud when I read that!

That is one of those indescribable relationships which I'm sure happen all of the time!

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Friday, May 17, 2013 10:16 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Do you consider the people here your friends, and if so, why, and if not, why not?

Maybe we're all friends kinda like in Congress.

That makes you my Right Honorable Friend From Fantasyland and me your good friend the Disitinguished Gentleman From ImAlwaysRightsyvania.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012

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Friday, May 17, 2013 1:52 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Friends? Like on Facebook and such ?

No.

I use to think that, despite our differences, we'd always have Firefly to bind us all, and sort of make us some weird, dysfunctional family.

Those days seem to be in the past.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, May 17, 2013 3:34 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

There are several people here whom I consider friends - some I consider "internet friends", meaning we talk, joke, socialize, and get along okay on the internet, but will likely never meet, much less go visit each other or hang out together in real life. Others I consider real, actual friends - we've never met, but I assume at some point we will, or if I or they really need something, or just someone to talk to, the other is just THERE for them, no questions asked. Those people I tend to think of as friends I haven't met yet.

I have several of the latter on facebook as well - people who have been there for me even when my own family and "real life" friends weren't, even though we've never actually met in real life.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Friday, May 17, 2013 4:33 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Internet buddies would be the closest description. I don't know any of you enough to consider a friend, but then it takes a lot for me to consider anyone a friend. Not saying that's a good thing, just is what it is.

I have been surprised by the 'I thought we were friends' responses that sometimes happen here, but figure some people may actually know one another, or have met at cons in the past.

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