WELP by BYTEMITE

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

WELP

POSTED BY: BYTEMITE
UPDATED: Friday, May 17, 2013 13:41
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Friday, May 17, 2013 6:08 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Cross-posting: Just saw your response, and it only further shows what I'm saying:

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When Jong flooded the board I yelled at him to stop when no one else would because you all know that one side would come back with "ahaha you hate free speech!"

First off, no, Sig spoke up first I believe, quite clearly. Second, it never occurred to ME not to yell at him because people would do the "free-speech" thing, so on both counts you're wrong; again we would have to get feedback from others to find out if others refrained from calling out Jong for fear of being accused of censorship, but you're wrong where Sig and I are concerned, at least.

As to bias:

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I can't be everywhere or see everything he posts

That wasn't my point. It's that, pretty consistently, you use as your examples people from the left when you go on these tears; I've read them often enough to notice that you highlight the left more than the right when you "go after" people.

Second, why is it your JOB to "be everywhere" anyway? Why do you think RWED NEEDS someone to take us to task? You're certainly free to do so, but you've seen others do it and that it's had no effect, you obviously get very upset, so I would say introspection might be most useful when it comes to keeping YOURSELF safe, healthy and happy. I guess I'm most confused because you've been here long enough to see the many, many pleas for civility, numerous of them from me before I finally gave up, and you've seen the result: Nada. So who does it benefit for you to do it, and who does it harm/upset?

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I haven't wanted to be at the front of an AuRaptor flamethrower. And Wulf has more issues from his childhood than I can even put into words. Rather like with Kane, I tended to be nice to Kane because I didn't want to set them off.

Man, that IS absolute cowardice!!! In other words, you cut some of the worst offenders slack because THEY'RE FUCKED UP and you don't want them blowing up (and going after YOU?).

Let's make it simple. I've tried, again and again, to return to civility; each time, it has netted not one single concession from those who dislike me; they have continued their assault undiminished. I have, repeatedly, pleaded for the same civility you are pleading for now; in return I have been called a bully.

Meanwhile, for just a couple of examples, Rap, Wulf, Kane and Six have never, EVER given ground on their attacks on me or anyone else that I can recall, nor called for civility that I can ever recall (Rap whines pretty steadily about being "picked on", but that's different from ever moderating HIMSELF or suggesting mutual civility). But you don't go after them much because you don't want to hurt Rap's feelings, Wulf had a bad childhood, and because you don't want to "set them off"?!

You don't see a bias there? The fact that I eventually give in and snark at and mock them--STILL to a lesser degree than they do me--leaves me open to your castigation; you cite examples of people on the left who are FAR less egregious than they are when they DO retaliate; while you cut them slack because "it's futile".

Yeah, no bias there. Right.

Basic statement: Jong would have stopped his thread-fest on his own without any intervention from you; he had planned to all along. In my opinion, yes, RWED reflects the larger society, which has gotten more polarized and uglier than at any other time in my life. You can't change society, you didn't affect what happened with Jong, and there's really no need for you to call people out at all, unless it pleases you for some reason.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 6:20 AM

BYTEMITE

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First off, no, Sig spoke up first I believe, quite clearly. Second, it never occurred to ME not to yell at him because people would do the "free-speech" thing, so on both counts you're wrong; again we would have to get feedback from others to find out if others refrained from calling out Jong for fear of being accused of censorship, but you're wrong where Sig and I are concerned, at least.

Okay. I'm sorry. I made an assumption about why it seemed like no one was stopping Jongs, didn't factor in Sig's efforts, and said something dumb. I am wrong on this.

Although I still think Jongs was making a point specifically against you.

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Yeah, no bias there. Right.

It's not bias. I recognize how vicious they can be.

It is cowardice. And I can try to change that about me. I'm going to try.

But even with all of that, even though this is coming from someone who is by no means perfect, even if you all think Oh hahaha, Byte always supports the right wing over the left she is just so full of SHIT - this is all besides the point.

This place has a problem. People insult each other and they don't need to. It makes things unpleasant for everyone, and yes, sometimes people get hurt.

You think I go through horrible soul searching periods on the board where I have to come to face with my failings and everything that I've done to people for FUN? Where people laugh at me and shake their heads and talk about what a fool I am and how I lack objectivity and that I have all these ulterior motives?

I do this because I feel I have an obligation to try to help the people here because you are my friends.

And I still feel that way even if none of you return that friendship and I feel like I've been told to get lost.

This place doesn't have to be negative. It doesn't have to cause so much anger and hurt. I don't think I'm incorrect in throwing that out there.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 6:30 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Gonna have to reply to this on a line by line basis. Not that every single thing you wrote is wrong, just that it can't be boiled down to one idea and that replied to. But it all deserves/ needs a reply. Let's see if I can pull it off, on a mechanical, punctuation level, and still make sense.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
NOBC: I am sorry that you felt like I was attacking you. I wasn't, not anymore that I'm attacking Jong over what he did.

I'm just kinda frustrated that there's all this vitriol and that it doesn't help the situation.

No need to apologize. I'm not mad, certainly not at you. I didn't feel you were attacking me. See, if I was mad, I'd be screaming,"I NEVER USED THAT WORD! SHOW ME WHERE I SAID THAT!"
You seemed to be suggesting that I was new around here. Just validating my record.

Or maybe that you'd never noticed me before. SEE! NOW I AM PISSED OFF ABOUT THAT! Joking , OK?

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I Thought that real good American conservatives and independent libertarian anarchists believed in right and wrong, not appropriate.

...I'm not really sure why you lumped anarchists in with conservatives or libertarians. Libertarians and anarchists are only the same thing in Europe, and neither are conservative. In American, libertarians are conservative. Anarchists are not.

Because I meant to include you. I couldn't remember exactly where you stood in the political spectrum. I specifically didn't mean to lump you in with the partisan Republican conservatives, knee-jerk bozos like Rap, JOng 6, Geezer, etc. I thought that I remembered that you stood out as more of an Anarchist or non-Republican Libertarian.

And that's been one of those neo-con, Repub, right winger accusations. Seen it many times --"You sissy Libs believe in appropriate, not right or wrong. POLITICAL CORRECTNESS. Fair, like in the kintergarden sandbox, not TRUE!, like in the REAL world." I was joking that you were jumping on THAT bandwagon.

If I offended you, I do apologise. I would do you the compliment that your posts are usually balanced and worth reading, your ideas worth considering most times, unlike some folks around here.

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Where are you posting from, NOBC?

Assuming that you mean in the real world, not metaphorically, I live in Long Beach, California. DAMMIT, THERE YOU GO AGAIN NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO ME. I mentioned that in a post just the other day. Joking again, OK? Poking fun at myself. My ego isn't quite that big.

Gee, I thought there was more than I needed to reply to. Guess it wasn't that hard after all. I understand and appreciate your explanation of anarchism, but it doesn't need argument or validation from me. And I agree with you. I TRY to have good manners here, mostly. I try to be polite. But I've got a temper, too. I gotta be rude or snarky once in a while. I identify with a certain Hawaiian-shirt-wearing spacecraft pilot. Gotta be a weisenheimer now and then, act out as the class clown sometimes.

But I ain't mad at you. You got nothing to apologize for. Respect your opinion and POV much of the time.
Friends, OK?

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Friday, May 17, 2013 6:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Okay, I gotta quit; we're cross-posting and I've spent way too long at this as it is.

No, we're not a society. We are not interconnected at all, we are individuals who come here or don't come here at our convenience. That is not a society. It is a "group", at best. I fully reject that it's teetering over any edge, and I hereby not just predict but GUARANTEE that it'll be here a year, two years, three years from now, as long as Haken is willing to support it. If every one of us left today, others would come tomorrow, that's how forums WORK. Gawd knows I've experienced enough of them.

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And as for Jong, I'm not wrong until he says I am.

But he HAS, quite clearly, said you were wrong:

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Just for the record, this
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While concerned about the free speech issue that such a limitation could constrain, it is apparent that the current post spree is in response to certain posters feeling that another poster is rather prolific.

had nothing to do with the last three days...It was quite another thing.

As to the "friend" thing, it's healthiest if you ASK people if you want to be friends with them, in my opinion, rather than just take it for granted because you communicate with them. Talking to people doesn't make them your friends, and all we do here is talk; if we share interests, it's on a very superficial level. The superficiality of this place is what guarantees none of us are real FRIENDS; if we communicate off-board, meet one another, have a relationship of any length of time, that might be considered friendship. Not this. Do you actual, in real life, know of groups of people who talk to one another the way we do here who are FRIENDS?!?! Do you actually believe people like Mark and Mike, and Rap and Wulf, would ever be FRIENDS in the real world? That blows my mind.

That doesn't mean I dismiss it, certainly not. It's an intellectual exercise, a form of entertainment, and in some cases it can LEAD to friendship. But I think you give it far too much weight far too easily compared to the rest of us. I could certainly be wrong. I'll ask.

But as far as I go, I've made it quite clear that I don't consider anyone here a "friend", merely an acquaintance. That doesn't mean I don't care about some here, it just means that there would have to be more to it before it would advance to what I consider friendship. I've known my doctor over twenty years; I respect and admire her, we actually spend more than the allotted 15 minutes yakking together when I go for a visit, I know quite a bit about her, but we're not "friends". We only see each other when I go there, just as I only see these people when I come HERE. It takes more than that to make a friendship. I've put up a post asking for feedback from the group on this issue, maybe that will help us both better understand the expectations people have of RWED. I suspect the majority of people don't consider those they meet here "friends", but we'll see what they say.

ETA: I never "rejected" your friendship, I never considered we had one. I know the persona you put forward on this forum, that doesn't mean I know YOU at all, since anyone can be anyone on the internet. I don't even know what you LOOK like, whether you're being honest here, what we might or might not have in common as far as interests go, or if I could trust you TO be honest with me. I'd need to hear your voice, your vocal inflections, see your body language, your face, observe how you react to things in the world, to begin any kind of friendship. Can you understand that??

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Friday, May 17, 2013 6:52 AM

BYTEMITE

I'm having to balance here between not starting up a fight with you and Jongs, especially since Jongs and Sig have apparently reconciled, and trying to put forward what I think is going on.

And, maybe it's not important for me to do that. If you're okay with Jongs then what I think happened doesn't matter. All right then. I'm wrong on this too.

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Not this. Do you actual, in real life, know of groups of people who talk to one another the way we do here who are FRIENDS?!?!

My parents have been married thirty years, and my mother regularly calls my father an asshole. One's a liberal, one's a conservative. They yell at each other quite a lot. No one in my family is actually capable of having a conversation without raising our voices or getting upset. Sometimes, in the heat of the moment, one of them mentions divorce. But it never comes to anything. They're comfortable with each other and really I think they enjoy the interactions on some level.

Maybe that's what's going on here too? But it doesn't look like it to me. I've lived that scenario my whole life, and this doesn't look like that. Maybe at one point I just shrugged and told myself that's what it was, but I don't buy it anymore.

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Can you understand that??

I guess I have to try. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 6:57 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I agree with Cav; I have never noticed anyone else here try to claim that there were WMDs, and there are numerous other things I see him fanatically cling to which I have not seen agreed with by anyone. I think Rap is a special case in that regard, and I think the frequency of his posting here and the things and the way he posts makes it a bit harder for some of us to remember that he doe NOT speak for the majority of those on the right. JMHO.

I have seen rappy, ass-flapping in the breeze, with naught a single right-wing friend to cover his butt. Left hanging, so to speak. Rappy IS a "special" case, and only two things will surely change his mind: deprogramming, or a bullet to the brain. 'Cause reality and discussion sure ain't hacking it. There are two people who egg him on- Wulf, and 6IX. And that's because, in THEIR minds, he is the intellectual of the group. Really.

So, by way of appeal to those who like to take potshots at rappy because it's fun to watch him run: YOU are ruining the board. If it weren't for all of the rappy-conversations, this place would be a whole lot more interesting. Imagine just treating whatever rappy says like it's a post from PN, and letting it sink into the dark oblivion. ... There, isn't the peace and quite much nicer?

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Friday, May 17, 2013 7:00 AM

BYTEMITE

NOBC: Didn't mean to say you were new, more that I just never really had much chance to talk to you. I'm sorry for that too, and for misunderstanding you.

It's a lost cause isn't it? I'm just shooting myself in the foot.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 7:06 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Bite me.

In Firefly the Alliance merged the US flag with the flag of Communist China
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_(Firefly)

Monsters and Men: Pirate News wins shoutout from Saturday Night Live the same week as $100,000 filmfest entries and FBI deth threat
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2013/05/hollywood-award-winner-pirat
e-news.html

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Friday, May 17, 2013 7:10 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Byte, the fact that they've come to terms with their relationship, or even that they may enjoy the interaction "on some level", doesn't mean it's a healthy relationship. It's not.

I grew up in exactly the same situation, ironically (but no brothers or sisters, just the two parents) but in my case I was fully aware that my mother hated and blamed my father for most everything wrong in her life, my father hated and was browbeaten by my mother (while at the same time, he still had a distinct bit of love in there for her), and I wish to hell they HAD divorced, yeah, it got tossed around at our house too. There was no real love between them, they just lived together uncomfortably. I had to UNlearn and RElearn how to have healthy relationships on my own later in life, and before I did, I made a real hash out of it.

I'm guessing that's where some of this comes from. It's something I'll never understand. Our neighbors next door are exactly the same; they used to fight constantly and raised voices were normal; after 25 years or so (his first wife left after six months), she's not there much but still officially "lives" there. He used to hit her; when I and another tried to talk to her and help, she said she wanted to be a stay-at-home-mom long enough to raise their son. Her decision. There is NO love on her side, only contempt, and I can't believe there is any kind of HEALTHY love on his side--he only stopped beating her when she had him thrown in jail a few times and he got cancer.

Those aren't healthy relationships, and they don't teach a child how to HAVE healthy relationships. Healthy relationships are where people TRY to respect one another, do their very best to apologize when they fail, work at compromise and understanding one another, accept a LOT (friend or mate) they can't understand, as well as understanding and taking responsibility for their own actions. You take responsibility, but from my observations, you OVERLY take responsibility as yet another way of putting yourself down or for some reason solidifying your persona as some kind of horrible person; it's not the same as accepting yourself and loving yourself, while at the same time taking responsibility. I'm going to stop there, dunno if I'm achieving anything like the kind of clarity I would like, but I can tell you clearly that what you described isn't a healthy family. Yes, there can be some kind of "love" or at least connection, caring, something, at the base of it, but it ain't healthy.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 7:15 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
So, by way of appeal to those who like to take potshots at rappy because it's fun to watch him run: YOU are ruining the board. If it weren't for all of the rappy-conversations, this place would be a whole lot more interesting. Imagine just treating whatever rappy says like it's a post from PN, and letting it sink into the dark oblivion. ... There, isn't the peace and quite much nicer?

Sig, thanx for reminding me. It's hard to keep remembering it, day in and day out, when he's so consistently outlandish. I will try, yet again. I will never stop trying, because you are, of course, absolutely right on.

I've already put Six, and now Wulf, into that category; part of my problem, ironically, is that Rap is an okay guy on any subject but politics...I actually almost like him, believe it or not. So it's hard to keep him in that "non-existent" corner with the others. But I will start again, thank you.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 9:36 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
NOBC: Didn't mean to say you were new, more that I just never really had much chance to talk to you. I'm sorry for that too, and for misunderstanding you.

It's a lost cause isn't it? I'm just shooting myself in the foot.

Don't worry about it, hon. I gots a Band-aid if ya need one.

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Friday, May 17, 2013 1:41 PM

BYTEMITE

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I can tell you clearly that what you described isn't a healthy family. Yes, there can be some kind of "love" or at least connection, caring, something, at the base of it, but it ain't healthy.

When we're not arguing we get along great though. We're just hotheaded and tend to take issue with every little thing and can't leave well enough alone. That's just the way we are, it's probably genetic or something. But I help my mom in the garden and I go on hikes every weekend with my dad, and we have a special tv night where we have a no arguing rule when my brother and his wife comes over. It's really not so bad. And basically entertaining all the time. I've never felt upset watching my parents fight because nothing they say to each other sticks or lasts.

But here, everything sticks. Everyone seems a little bit hurt.

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