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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius rebuffed an appeal from Rep. Lou Barletta on behalf of a girl who needs a lung transplant but can’t get one because of a federal regulation that prevents her from qualifying for a transplant.

“Please, suspend the rules until we look at this policy,” Barletta, a Pennsylvania Republican, asked Sebelius during a House hearing Tuesday on behalf of Sarah Murnaghan, a 10-year-old girl who needs a lung transplant. She can’t qualify for an adult lung transplant until the age of 12, according to federal regulations, but Sebelius has the authority to waive that rule on her behalf. The pediatric lungs for which she currently qualifies aren’t available.

“I would suggest, sir, that, again, this is an incredibly agonizing situation where someone lives and someone dies,” Sebelius replied. “The medical evidence and the transplant doctors who are making the rule — and have had the rule in place since 2005 making a delineation between pediatric and adult lungs, because lungs are different that other organs — that it’s based on the survivability [chances].”
http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2531097?slideout=1

Unavoidable, Govt. bureaucrat says some live and some die.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius rebuffed an appeal from Rep. Lou Barletta on behalf of a girl who needs a lung transplant but can’t get one because of a federal regulation that prevents her from qualifying for a transplant.

“Please, suspend the rules until we look at this policy,” Barletta, a Pennsylvania Republican, asked Sebelius during a House hearing Tuesday on behalf of Sarah Murnaghan, a 10-year-old girl who needs a lung transplant. She can’t qualify for an adult lung transplant until the age of 12, according to federal regulations, but Sebelius has the authority to waive that rule on her behalf. The pediatric lungs for which she currently qualifies aren’t available.

“I would suggest, sir, that, again, this is an incredibly agonizing situation where someone lives and someone dies,” Sebelius replied. “The medical evidence and the transplant doctors who are making the rule — and have had the rule in place since 2005 making a delineation between pediatric and adult lungs, because lungs are different that other organs — that it’s based on the survivability [chances].”
http://washingtonexaminer.com/article/2531097?slideout=1

Unavoidable, Govt. bureaucrat says some live and some die.

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You can't even read what you post. Medical evidence and transplant doctors make the rules. there is a difference between pediatric and adult lungs.

Jerk

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Republicans’ latest attack on HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius involves not the health care law, but a child dying of cystic fibrosis.

GOP members are pressuring the secretary to make Sarah Murnaghan, a 10-year-old who has been hospitalized at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia for three months with end-stage disease, eligible to receive a transplant of adult lungs. Her family has gone very public in seeking an exemption because few pediatric lungs become available and the child is running out of time.



Sebelius, who would need to intervene in decisions made by a transplant panel, told a House panel Tuesday morning that she has spoken with Sarah’s mother and “can’t imagine anything more difficult.” But she also said it isn’t her job to pick and choose.

“I can’t imagine anything worse than one individual getting to pick who lives and who dies,” she said. Sebelius said putting Sarah next in line would disadvantage other young people who have also been waiting for transplants — three of them at the same hospital.

“Unfortunately, there are about 40 seriously ill Pennsylvanians over the age of 12 also waiting for a lung transplant,” she said.

The Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network sets policies for transplants, working with the nonprofit United Network for Organ Sharing to maintain waiting lists and implement the standards. Under their current policies, those under the age of 12 are considered separately from adults. That means an adult lung will be given to an adult candidate if one exists. Murnaghan is at the top of the list to receive a pediatric lung, but pediatric donors are much more rare.

Sebelius said HHS lawyers disagree with Republicans who insist she can take emergency action. Instead of personally intervening, she has ordered a review of the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network’s policy.

But Republicans — from Pennsylvania and other states — insist she intervene. “It simply takes your signature,” said Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.). “A study will take over a year — this young lady will be dead.”

“Why are we going to let a little 10-year-old girl die because she is 10 and not 12,” said Rep. Lou Barletta (R-Pa.). “Please suspend the rules until we look at this policy [that] we all believe is flawed. … We do so much bullcrap around this place and we have the chance to save someone’s life.”

Sen. Pat Toomey and Rep. Patrick Meehan, both Pennsylvania Republicans, wrote to Sebelius on Monday, asking her to reconsider.

“You have the ability and the authority to intervene to allow for Sarah and other children under the age of 12 to become eligible for adult organs,” they wrote.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Righties using a sick child to score political points against Obama's healthcare plan.

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Republicans’ latest attack on HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius involves not the health care law, but a child dying of cystic fibrosis.

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The U.S. Congress established the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network (OPTN) when it enacted the National Organ Transplant Act (NOTA) of 1984. The act called for a unified transplant network to be operated by a private, non-profit organization under federal contract.

Following further study and recommendations from a task force commissioned through NOTA, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) solicited proposals in 1986 for the operation of the OPTN.

The United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS) was awarded the initial OPTN contract on September 30, 1986, and has continued to administer the OPTN more than 16 years and four successive contract renewals.

Effective March 16, 2000, HHS implemented a Final Rule establishing a regulatory framework for the structure and operations of the OPTN.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Sounds like their beef should be the The Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network.

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The U.S. Congress established the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network (OPTN) when it enacted the National Organ Transplant Act (NOTA) of 1984. The act called for a unified transplant network to be operated by a private, non-profit organization under federal contract.

Following further study and recommendations from a task force commissioned through NOTA, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) solicited proposals in 1986 for the operation of the OPTN.

The United Network for Organ Sharing (UNOS) was awarded the initial OPTN contract on September 30, 1986, and has continued to administer the OPTN more than 16 years and four successive contract renewals.

Effective March 16, 2000, HHS implemented a Final Rule establishing a regulatory framework for the structure and operations of the OPTN.

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Established in 1984 under a Regean administration and NOTHING to do with Obama or his health care plans.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Well, Ive pointed out that it has nothing to do with the ACA, citing your previous post. Not sure why you're trying to make this ACA-related when it's just about overly rigid rules for who gets transplants.

Also note from your cite above that it was HHS that set up and regulates the OPTN (based on a Congressional mandate), so you'd kind'a expect that if folks want the OPTN to change their regulations, or want an exception to the current regulations on an emergency basis, they'd ask the Secretary of HHS.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
A beautiful, high-spirited little girl with just a few weeks to live can't get any sympathy or special consideration by the non-human gargoyles who have the power to save her. Nope, they say wait your turn behind the adults who have already lived life including those that chose to smoke. Nope, Kathleen Sebelius won't bend a rule for a desperate 10 year-old girl. She just sentences her to death with a smile as she scurries along to her next meeting. In Sebelius' screwed-up head, she likely believes the girl is already way ahead of the game anyhow, having not been aborted before birth.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
A beautiful, high-spirited little girl with just a few weeks to live can't get any sympathy or special consideration by the non-human gargoyles who have the power to save her. Nope, they say wait your turn behind the adults who have already lived life including those that chose to smoke. Nope, Kathleen Sebelius won't bend a rule for a desperate 10 year-old girl. She just sentences her to death with a smile as she scurries along to her next meeting. In Sebelius' screwed-up head, she likely believes the girl is already way ahead of the game anyhow, having not been aborted before birth.

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Oh spare me the pathetic hand wringing. I don't believe your grief. You are point scoring once again.

Where was your outrage when Tea party supporters chanted 'let them die' regarding uninsured patients in need of life saving treatments. Under a far right government, many would be left without treatment and would die, because of their own twisted ideology regarding user pays. Would you prefer who can pay the most for the lungs to be a better way of determining? After all free market forces are the most important consideration in the world.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

*UPDATE*

A federal judge has ordered Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to allow Sarah Murnaghan, a 10-year-old in Pennsylvania dying of cystic fibrosis, to be moved to the adult lung transplant list. Normally federal policy prevents children younger than 12 from receiving donated adult lungs, but Sebelius has been under pressure to change the policy.

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Originally posted by AURaptor

1 person shouted that out, in a town hall meeting, as I recall.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


The heartless Alliance suck ups will carry on about the 'faux' sympathy for this young girl...

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


If I smoke, do YOU pay for my cancer treatment ?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


If I smoke, do YOU pay for my cancer treatment ?

If I drive a car, and refuse to pay insurance, do YOU pay for my new car and hospital bills, if I get into an accident ?

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


If I smoke, do YOU pay for my cancer treatment ?

If I drive a car, and refuse to pay insurance, do YOU pay for my new car and hospital bills, if I get into an accident ?

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That's universal healthcare. Yep, the treatment is based on a needs basis. People are treated without judgement based on their medical needs. I know its hard for you to comprehend a system that isn't punitive and judgemental, but they do exist and do quite well.

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Originally posted by Geezer:


You know, it really does sound sort'a like a "death panel". ;<)

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Compelling others to pay for your treatment is a concept which you seem to think is just fine, where as I don't.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Compelling others to pay for your treatment is a concept which you seem to think is just fine, where as I don't.

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Yeah, thats clearly a fundamental difference between us. I believe that no one should be turned away from the health care that they require, regardless of their socio economic status. And that in a properous nation that should not be too hard an ask that people share the cost of universal health care.

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Originally posted by Kwicko:

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Originally posted by Geezer:


You know, it really does sound sort'a like a "death panel". ;<)

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Huh. Whattaya know about that? George W. Bush instituted "death panels", and not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but here at home as well.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


Universal HC will turn that prosperous nation into a 3rd world nation before too long.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


Universal HC will turn that prosperous nation into a 3rd world nation before too long.

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Yeah because that happened here back in 1975.

Oh wait, no it didn't. You are wrong.

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Wait, our resident righties want a teenager with a decent chance of being saved by a lung transplant to die so that a 10 year old can undergo a procedure that doctors think unlikely to succeed? As the article says, there are at least 10 older kids on the waiting list for adult lungs.

Why do you want these teenagers to die righties? Why have you appointed yourselves to their death panel and made the decision that they should be denied treatment? You aren't even doctors!

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Nope. Nice spin, though. This has zero to do w/ a 10 year old bumping anyone off the list so she can cut in line for a new lung. But this is the absurd view you must whip up in order to defend your beloved O-Care death panel.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


Yeah because that happened here back in 1975.

Oh wait, no it didn't. You are wrong.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

She'll likely not last a week. She'll pass, and this will all be forgotten. The heartless Alliance suck ups will carry on about the 'faux' sympathy for this young girl, and then go on defending this bureaucratic night mare they've elected.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Compelling others to pay for your treatment is a concept which you seem to think is just fine, where as I don't.

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Yeah, thats clearly a fundamental difference between us. I believe that no one should be turned away from the health care that they require, regardless of their socio economic status. And that in a properous nation that should not be too hard an ask that people share the cost of universal health care.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

She'll likely not last a week. She'll pass, and this will all be forgotten. The heartless Alliance suck ups will carry on about the 'faux' sympathy for this young girl, and then go on defending this bureaucratic night mare they've elected.

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Well she did last the week and today she got her new lungs. And because of her legal case the organ donor selection system has been changed forever to give kids in a similar situation a chance to live.

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Pa. Girl Who Took On Donor Rules Gets New Lungs

Associated Press – June 12

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — A 10-year-old girl whose efforts to qualify for an organ donation drew public debate over how organs are allocated was getting a lung transplant Wednesday, her family said.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

Yeah, thats clearly a fundamental difference between us. I believe that no one should be turned away from the health care that they require, regardless of their socio economic status. And that in a properous nation that should not be too hard an ask that people share the cost of universal health care.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Why should a doctor, a nurse, a hospital, be forced to do something for free, simply because YOU say so ?

We're not being ASKED anything. We're having it forced upon us, by the might of the imperial federal govt.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

1st I'm hearing of this. I'm sure those who claim there are such things as 'miracles' will be pleased at this news.

I wish her well.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

1st I'm hearing of this. I'm sure those who claim there are such things as 'miracles' will be pleased at this news.

I wish her well.

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Her surgery will be over at about 9:00 pm tonight. Hopefully the doctors will give a statement on her condition as soon as is appropriate. From the parents' perspective it must feel like a miracle, and it's one that they had a hand in themselves.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


some people live, some people die


In a FREE society, there'd not be such rules that prohibit this type of age discrimination.


And this one of those joys of O-Care, where it's up to Sebelius to decide who lived or died, based on HER signature. She, like the Emperors of old , gave the crowd a 'thumbs down' , and sentenced this girl to death.

Were her parents TEA party supporters ? I wonder.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
One of the biggest problems I have with this is that it's not driven by science. It may be a positive feed-back loop, but there isn't a whole lot of data on the survivability of young recipients after they get adult lungs. OTOH there is a lot more data on adult to adult transplants. By giving adult lungs to a child - or in this case ordering it for two children - you're condemning someone to death who would have had a more certain outcome. You're doing that in order to pursue a less certain outcome in someone else.

I wonder who died to make this happen. I wonder what their potential lifespan would have been if they had gotten those lungs instead.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Score one for the good guys!

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