Iraq - Far Graver Than Vietnam by Ghoulman

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Iraq - Far Graver Than Vietnam

POSTED BY: GHOULMAN
UPDATED: Thursday, November 11, 2004 06:15
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Friday, September 24, 2004 8:12 AM

Far Graver Than Vietnam
By Sidney Blumenthal
The Guardian - UK
9-16-4
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1305360,00.html

Most senior US military officers now believe the war on Iraq has turned into a disaster on an unprecedented scale

'Bring them on!" President Bush challenged the early Iraqi insurgency in July of last year. Since then, 812 American soldiers have been killed and 6,290 wounded, according to the Pentagon. Almost every day, in campaign speeches, Bush speaks with bravado about how he is "winning" in Iraq. "Our strategy is succeeding," he boasted to the National Guard convention on Tuesday. But, according to the US military's leading strategists and prominent retired generals, Bush's war is already lost. Retired general William Odom, former head of the National Security Agency, told me: "Bush hasn't found the WMD. Al-Qaida, it's worse, he's lost on that front. That he's going to achieve a democracy there? That goal is lost, too. It's lost." He adds: "Right now, the course we're on, we're achieving Bin Laden's ends."

Retired general Joseph Hoare, the former marine commandant and head of US Central Command, told me: "The idea that this is going to go the way these guys planned is ludicrous. There are no good options. We're conducting a campaign as though it were being conducted in Iowa, no sense of the realities on the ground. It's so unrealistic for anyone who knows that part of the world. The priorities are just all wrong." Jeffrey Record, professor of strategy at the Air War College, said: "I see no ray of light on the horizon at all. The worst case has become true. There's no analogy whatsoever between the situation in Iraq and the advantages we had after the second world war in Germany and Japan."

W Andrew Terrill, professor at the Army War College's strategic studies institute - and the top expert on Iraq there - said: "I don't think that you can kill the insurgency". According to Terrill, the anti-US insurgency, centred in the Sunni triangle, and holding several cities and towns - including Fallujah - is expanding and becoming more capable as a consequence of US policy.

"We have a growing, maturing insurgency group," he told me. "We see larger and more coordinated military attacks. They are getting better and they can self-regenerate. The idea there are x number of insurgents, and that when they're all dead we can get out is wrong. The insurgency has shown an ability to regenerate itself because there are people willing to fill the ranks of those who are killed. The political culture is more hostile to the US presence. The longer we stay, the more they are confirmed in that view." After the killing of four US contractors in Fallujah, the marines besieged the city for three weeks in April - the watershed event for the insurgency. "I think the president ordered the attack on Fallujah," said General Hoare. "I asked a three-star marine general who gave the order to go to Fallujah and he wouldn't tell me. I came to the conclusion that the order came directly from the White House." Then, just as suddenly, the order was rescinded, and Islamist radicals gained control, using the city as a base.

"If you are a Muslim and the community is under occupation by a non-Islamic power it becomes a religious requirement to resist that occupation," Terrill explained. "Most Iraqis consider us occupiers, not liberators." He describes the religious imagery common now in Fallujah and the Sunni triangle: "There's talk of angels and the Prophet Mohammed coming down from heaven to lead the fighting, talk of martyrs whose bodies are glowing and emanating wonderful scents." "I see no exit," said Record. "We've been down that road before. It's called Vietnamisation. The idea that we're going to have an Iraqi force trained to defeat an enemy we can't defeat stretches the imagination. They will be tainted by their very association with the foreign occupier. In fact, we had more time and money in state building in Vietnam than in Iraq."

General Odom said: "This is far graver than Vietnam. There wasn't as much at stake strategically, though in both cases we mindlessly went ahead with the war that was not constructive for US aims. But now we're in a region far more volatile, and we're in much worse shape with our allies." Terrill believes that any sustained US military offensive against the no-go areas "could become so controversial that members of the Iraqi government would feel compelled to resign". Thus, an attempted military solution would destroy the slightest remaining political legitimacy. "If we leave and there's no civil war, that's a victory."

General Hoare believes from the information he has received that "a decision has been made" to attack Fallujah "after the first Tuesday in November. That's the cynical part of it - after the election. The signs are all there." He compares any such planned attack to the late Syrian dictator Hafez al-Asad's razing of the rebel city of Hama. "You could flatten it," said Hoare. "US military forces would prevail, casualties would be high, there would be inconclusive results with respect to the bad guys, their leadership would escape, and civilians would be caught in the middle. I hate that phrase collateral damage. And they talked about dancing in the street, a beacon for democracy."

General Odom remarked that the tension between the Bush administration and the senior military officers over Iraqi was worse than any he has ever seen with any previous government, including Vietnam. "I've never seen it so bad between the office of the secretary of defence and the military. There's a significant majority believing this is a disaster. The two parties whose interests have been advanced have been the Iranians and al-Qaida. Bin Laden could argue with some cogency that our going into Iraq was the equivalent of the Germans in Stalingrad. They defeated themselves by pouring more in there. Tragic."

Sidney Blumenthal, a former senior adviser to President Clinton, is Washington bureau chief of salon.com

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Wednesday, November 3, 2004 11:27 AM

GHOULMAN

*bump*

Because someone was so pissed about comparing Vietnam to Iraq. Well, here is the proof and I didn't even have to leave this site!

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Wednesday, November 3, 2004 11:52 AM

JASONZZZ

Not as shameful as this icon of worship.

or...

boohoo

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
*bump*

Because someone was so pissed about comparing Vietnam to Iraq. Well, here is the proof and I didn't even have to leave this site!

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Wednesday, November 3, 2004 4:25 PM

HARDWARE

Wow Jasonzzz what a wonderful piece of critical thinking. You take an article that quotes the senior commanders on scene in Iraq as stating the war is a quagmire and you rebutt it with three photoshop sour grapes. What a critical genius you are.

What are you going to do for an encore? Issue a scientific explanation for the magic bullet?

I really, really hope you are of draft age.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Wednesday, November 3, 2004 4:52 PM

JASONZZZ

Did you ever wonder what why Ghoulma dragged this post back up? Did you read his 2nd post. Did you understand what he meant? If not, then you got fooled by Ghoulma. He dragged this stupid-ass post that's already been trolled around else where on the internet and completely rebuffed up because seconds ago on another thread he was shot to pieces. Now he ran to this post to make himself yet an ass again. I am simply helping him a bit in his illustration on him being an ass.

Please click on Ghoulman and read his other posts on all of his other troll threads and then comment again.

In either case, if you must know, I have served already thru the first Gulf War. I am much too old to be drafted by now. I am somewhat ambivalent about an actual draft since it might introduce subgeniuses with the ilks of Ghouma. But at the same time, I believe that every single physically able citizen of their respective state should give to their country some sort of public service. It doesn't have to be in the Armed forces. Some sort of peace corp or other rural projects work like the CCC back in the old days would work wonderfully.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Wow Jasonzzz what a wonderful piece of critical thinking. You take an article that quotes the senior commanders on scene in Iraq as stating the war is a quagmire and you rebutt it with three photoshop sour grapes. What a critical genius you are.

What are you going to do for an encore? Issue a scientific explanation for the magic bullet?

I really, really hope you are of draft age.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Haken needs a new development system. Donate.
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Wednesday, November 3, 2004 5:55 PM

HARDWARE

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

In either case, if you must know, I have served already thru the first Gulf War. I am much too old to be drafted by now.

Hmm, don't be so sure about that. My sister can be called back up at any time until she is 55. Fortunately the Army doesn't need many JAG officers to prosecute the war in Iraq.

I understand males can be called back until age 65. The mere thought of this brings up the Volkscorp at the end of Nazi German, composed of schoolboys and grandfathers.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

But at the same time, I believe that every single physically able citizen of their respective state should give to their country some sort of public service. It doesn't have to be in the Armed forces. Some sort of peace corp or other rural projects work like the CCC back in the old days would work wonderfully.

I agree with this idea in principle. There are huge costs involved to mobilize this sort of manpower. However, if the government wanted to do something like this all it would have to do is forgive a percentage of student loans in lieu of pay.

Even paying the entire entering workforce a minimum wage would be a huge expenditure of cash. Anybody know how many seniors leave high school every year? Even if their term of service in a CCC organization was one year mulitply graduating classes by $5.10 by 2080 and it's got to be a whopper of a number.

I don't see how everyone could be enrolled in this. I don't think it is practical.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Wednesday, November 3, 2004 6:20 PM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

In either case, if you must know, I have served already thru the first Gulf War. I am much too old to be drafted by now.

Hmm, don't be so sure about that. My sister can be called back up at any time until she is 55. Fortunately the Army doesn't need many JAG officers to prosecute the war in Iraq.

I understand males can be called back until age 65. The mere thought of this brings up the Volkscorp at the end of Nazi German, composed of schoolboys and grandfathers.

hmmm... couple of things going on here.

Even with a draft in effect, with the current rules, the lottery is done for men between 18 - 26. Now speculations abound that the upper end should be extended to 35, but even if they boost it up to 45. I'm still too much of a fuddyduddy for that. Besides, folks who have already served a term are not eligible for the draft.

Now, with prior service folks, there are two things going on. First with enlisted folks. Every one who enlists regardless of their length of active service, they owe a total of 8 years. So if you enlisted for 4 years of active service, you still have another 4 years of either in the real reserves or something call IRR (Individual Ready Reserves). Which means that if you served 4 years active duty, then got out but didn't join the real Reserves. You are still assigned to a IRR unit, but you don't do anything. You just go about your everyday normal live until the 4 years are up. This is what everyone is up in arms right now. Because if the real Army and the real Reserves are really short, then they can call up the folks who are in the IRR obligations. For some odd reason, people thinks that they are "drafting" these guys. No, they signed up for 8 years no matter what.

There is also something called "stop loss". It's when they hold you from leaving the service eventhough your enlistment is up. But this only happens during a major conflict. I was held in stop loss during the first Gulf War.

Now with Commissioned Officers, the story is more different. Once Commissioned, you are recognized by the Congress of the US that you will serve the country. There isn't any such thing as resigning your commission. Once you are in, you are in, and they can call you up at anytime.

I don't think only Germany had a Volkscorp. Any country that had been engaged in an all out war have had similar measures. And the US had done it during the Revolutionary War and Civil War. Other countries like, China, Japan, Phillipines, France, Taiwan, have also done it in some part of their history.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:

But at the same time, I believe that every single physically able citizen of their respective state should give to their country some sort of public service. It doesn't have to be in the Armed forces. Some sort of peace corp or other rural projects work like the CCC back in the old days would work wonderfully.

I agree with this idea in principle. There are huge costs involved to mobilize this sort of manpower. However, if the government wanted to do something like this all it would have to do is forgive a percentage of student loans in lieu of pay.

Even paying the entire entering workforce a minimum wage would be a huge expenditure of cash. Anybody know how many seniors leave high school every year? Even if their term of service in a CCC organization was one year mulitply graduating classes by $5.10 by 2080 and it's got to be a whopper of a number.

I don't see how everyone could be enrolled in this. I don't think it is practical.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Haken needs a new development system. Donate.
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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:24 PM

GHOULMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Did you ever wonder what why Ghoulma dragged this post back up? Did you read his 2nd post. Did you understand what he meant? If not, then you got fooled by Ghoulma.

Oh yes, I'm a one man foolie factory.

Quote:
He dragged this stupid-ass post that's already been trolled around else where on the internet and completely rebuffed up because seconds ago on another thread he was shot to pieces.

Then post it. Let's see.

Quote:
Now he ran to this post to make himself yet an ass again. I am simply helping him a bit in his illustration on him being an ass.

Well, maybe I've been ass like sometimes.

Quote:
Please click on Ghoulman and read his other posts on all of his other troll threads and then comment again.

Troll threads? It's a news article! This from the guy who posts giant obnoxious pictures in threads he doesn't like. At least they are funny these days, the old ones he posted were really rude.

Quote:
In either case, if you must know, I have served already thru the first Gulf War.

In the other thread you claimed you served in Vietnam too. Wow, you must be Americas oldest soldier!

Quote:
I am much too old to be drafted by now.

Your how old?

Quote:
I am somewhat ambivalent about an actual draft since it might introduce subgeniuses with the ilks of Ghouma.

How old?

I noticed you purposely mispelled my username... I wonder why? lol!

Quote:
But at the same time, I believe that every single physically able citizen of their respective state should give to their country some sort of public service. It doesn't have to be in the Armed forces. Some sort of peace corp or other rural projects work like the CCC back in the old days would work wonderfully.

George W. pushed this idea after the 200 election if I recall.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Wow Jasonzzz what a wonderful piece of critical thinking. You take an article that quotes the senior commanders on scene in Iraq as stating the war is a quagmire and you rebutt it with three photoshop sour grapes. What a critical genius you are.

What are you going to do for an encore? Issue a scientific explanation for the magic bullet?

I really, really hope you are of draft age.

He is.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:45 PM

SCORPIUSTOTA

Ghoul, I will believe something out of the friggin Guardian 10 minutes after hell freezes over. They are an openly obvious America hating British rag sheet, and have hardly any credibility at all. Give it up. I tend to lurk rather than post here, but this is getting pathetic.

By the way, the only draft proposal in congress was proposed by Democrats, and purely as a scare tactic, but if you are stupid enough to believe, who am I to argue?

Never argue with a fool, it make sit hard to tell which is which.

-Scorp

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:47 PM

GHOULMAN

The Guardian is one of Britians most respected newspapers. Bash it all ya like. I'll await the Brits to come along and tell you themselves.

And it's hard to say this article has any "America Hating" in it as it quotes American Generals and American military experts.

Don't you respect the opinions of those who actually have to go out and die for you? Support the troops... that's what this is about.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:48 PM

JASONZZZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jasonzzz:
Did you ever wonder what why Ghoulma dragged this post back up? Did you read his 2nd post. Did you understand what he meant? If not, then you got fooled by Ghoulma.

Oh yes, I'm a one man foolie factory.

Quote:
He dragged this stupid-ass post that's already been trolled around else where on the internet and completely rebuffed up because seconds ago on another thread he was shot to pieces.

Then post it. Let's see.

Quote:
Now he ran to this post to make himself yet an ass again. I am simply helping him a bit in his illustration on him being an ass.

Well, maybe I've been ass like sometimes.

Quote:
Please click on Ghoulman and read his other posts on all of his other troll threads and then comment again.

Troll threads? It's a news article! This from the guy who posts giant obnoxious pictures in threads he doesn't like. At least they are funny these days, the old ones he posted were really rude.

Quote:
In either case, if you must know, I have served already thru the first Gulf War.

In the other thread you claimed you served in Vietnam too. Wow, you must be Americas oldest soldier!

Quote:
I am much too old to be drafted by now.

Your how old?

Quote:
I am somewhat ambivalent about an actual draft since it might introduce subgeniuses with the ilks of Ghouma.

How old?

I noticed you purposely mispelled my username... I wonder why? lol!

Quote:
But at the same time, I believe that every single physically able citizen of their respective state should give to their country some sort of public service. It doesn't have to be in the Armed forces. Some sort of peace corp or other rural projects work like the CCC back in the old days would work wonderfully.

George W. pushed this idea after the 200 election if I recall.

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Wow Jasonzzz what a wonderful piece of critical thinking. You take an article that quotes the senior commanders on scene in Iraq as stating the war is a quagmire and you rebutt it with three photoshop sour grapes. What a critical genius you are.

What are you going to do for an encore? Issue a scientific explanation for the magic bullet?

I really, really hope you are of draft age.

He is.

Would you mind going ahead and burn my clothes after you are done wearing them and impersonating me - answering my questions? Thanks... Go ahead and burn the underwear twice if you could... I've already answer those questions from eons ago. I really don't know why you've brought them up again. Don't you have some other thread to go trolling at? The "News" must be slow today.

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:51 PM

GHOULMAN

^^^ lol!

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Thursday, November 4, 2004 12:55 PM

SCORPIUSTOTA

I have a hard time believing that a "respected newspaper" would in all honesty publish "How Could 59, (etc etc) Be So Dumb?". If that's what passes for "respected" journalism in the UK, I would politely suggest they reexamine their choice of papers.

-Scorp

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Tuesday, November 9, 2004 8:14 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

The anti-American rhetoric of the Guardian and Ghoulman are well documented in their respective sources. I've read them both. Entertaining they are, but informative and reliable they are not.

For sure they both will always tell you the truth, but only half of it.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 6:49 AM

GHOULMAN

^^^ read the article - it's quoting American patriots.

That's the thing about people like you who accuse people without facts or even explaination... just childish accusations - you have to show the lie instead of just going around accusing people because you don't like them, or the paper they write for.

Finn - shame on you.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 6:54 AM

GHOULMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by ScorpiusTOTA:
I have a hard time believing that a "respected newspaper" would in all honesty publish "How Could 59, (etc etc) Be So Dumb?". If that's what passes for "respected" journalism in the UK, I would politely suggest they reexamine their choice of papers.

-Scorp

That was the Daily Mirror - a tabloid. It's like getting news from the New York Post *chuckle*

The Guardian is a respected paper with many star writers contributing. This paper is often a good source of top notch journalism.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:00 AM

GHOULMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The anti-American rhetoric of the Guardian and Ghoulman ...

You may post any one of my posts to prove any "anti-American" sentiment on my part.

And I must point out what crap it is to accuse someone with such a silly, facile, childish, and fascistic term.

To say someone is "anti-American" only shows the accuser to be so fanatically opposed to any other opinion they must attack them.

Grow up.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:15 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Interesting that Jeffery Record and W. Andrew Terrill's latest paper for the Startegic Studies Institute of the Army War College is "IRAQ AND VIETNAM: DIFFERENCES, SIMILARITIES, AND INSIGHTS" in which "...The authors conclude that the two conflicts bear little comparison.(emphasis mine) They also conclude, however, that failed U.S. state-building in Vietnam and the impact of declining domestic political support for U.S. war aims in Vietnam are issues pertinent to current U.S. policy in Iraq."

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:33 AM

GHOULMAN

^^^ great post.

These guys at the Strategic Studies Institute of the Army War College are up against the heavy hitters in the article above.

Heavy hitters who, in the past, have actually written policy for previous governments. Particularly the Nixen government.

I find this War College paper to be written by the "students" while the article I posted is coming from the "Masters", people who were direct architects of the Vietnam Conflict. In other words - they are indisputable on this subject.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:41 AM

SLACKMASTERACTUAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Hardware:
Wow Jasonzzz what a wonderful piece of critical thinking. You take an article that quotes the senior commanders on scene in Iraq as stating the war is a quagmire and you rebutt it with three photoshop sour grapes. What a critical genius you are.

What are you going to do for an encore? Issue a scientific explanation for the magic bullet?

I really, really hope you are of draft age.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

Senior Commanders on the scene? Your the friggen genius, those are former title 10 M***Fukers looking to get press, probably release a book soon.

Here is a little item for you lefty, we are winning, I know because I'm in Iraq.

"Diplomacy is utterly useless when there is no force behind it; the diplomat is the servant, not the master of the soldier." THEODORE ROOSEVELT

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:46 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The anti-American rhetoric of the Guardian and Ghoulman ...

You may post any one of my posts to prove any "anti-American" sentiment on my part.

And I must point out what crap it is to accuse someone with such a silly, facile, childish, and fascistic term.

To say someone is "anti-American" only shows the accuser to be so fanatically opposed to any other opinion they must attack them.

Grow up.

If I only have to post of them to prove your anti-American sentiment, then for the sake of brevity I choose the one were in.

But the most Entertaining one was the one where you claimed Enterprise was promoting fascism because it was, according to you, supporting the fascist philosophy of the American Government. That was entertaining. It didn't leave you with an ounce of creditably but it was entertaining.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:11 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
^^^ great post.

These guys at the Strategic Studies Institute of the Army War College are up against the heavy hitters in the article above.

Heavy hitters who, in the past, have actually written policy for previous governments. Particularly the Nixen government.

I find this War College paper to be written by the "students" while the article I posted is coming from the "Masters", people who were direct architects of the Vietnam Conflict. In other words - they are indisputable on this subject.

Uh, Ghoul. The War College paper I cited was written by two of the "Heavy Hitters" in the Guardian article, Jeffrey Record and W. Andrew Terrill.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:39 AM

GHOULMAN

... yeeeaaaah, hence "good post" Geezer.

I intimated Jeffrey Record and W. Andrew Terrill were not?
EDIT: Oh, I can see where my sentence might make that seem so. My bad.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:47 AM

GHOULMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
The anti-American rhetoric of the Guardian and Ghoulman ...

You may post any one of my posts to prove any "anti-American" sentiment on my part.

And I must point out what crap it is to accuse someone with such a silly, facile, childish, and fascistic term.

To say someone is "anti-American" only shows the accuser to be so fanatically opposed to any other opinion they must attack them.

Grow up.
If I only have to post of them to prove your anti-American sentiment, then for the sake of brevity I choose the one were in.

But the most Entertaining one was the one where you claimed Enterprise was promoting fascism because it was, according to you, supporting the fascist philosophy of the American Government. That was entertaining. It didn't leave you with an ounce of creditably but it was entertaining.

Sure, fine. But that would still only be your opinion and if you bothered to read that ENT thread you would find others agreed with me.

The point is - just attacking someone because you don't like them or thier opinions is facile.

Get it?

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:58 AM

GHOULMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by SlackMasterActual:
Senior Commanders on the scene? Your the friggen genius, those are former title 10 M***Fukers looking to get press, probably release a book soon.

Here is a little item for you lefty, we are winning, I know because I'm in Iraq.

"Diplomacy is utterly useless when there is no force behind it; the diplomat is the servant, not the master of the soldier." THEODORE ROOSEVELT

Welcome to the thread. Please, try to post your opinions instead of ganging up on someone already involved in a long arguement. Thanx.

And if you're in Iraq, you are losing. You lost before you got there, see... that's how I know. Which is the point of the article posted above and I'm greatly pleased to see another US soldier reading this (there are a few others lurking here).

Also, please take care what you post. Remember - your CO is reading this.

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Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:32 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Sure, fine. But that would still only be your opinion and if you bothered to read that ENT thread you would find others agreed with me.

The point is - just attacking someone because you don't like them or thier opinions is facile.

Get it?

Stop the sob story. I have nothing personally against you, and no one's attacking you. You're welcome to your anti-American opinions. But if you're going to post bullshit don’t cry because someone tells you it stinks.

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 3:17 AM

GHOULMAN

Not about me though is it?

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 5:14 AM

SLACKMASTERACTUAL

Quote:
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Quote:
Originally posted by SlackMasterActual:
Senior Commanders on the scene? Your the friggen genius, those are former title 10 M***Fukers looking to get press, probably release a book soon.

Here is a little item for you lefty, we are winning, I know because I'm in Iraq.

"Diplomacy is utterly useless when there is no force behind it; the diplomat is the servant, not the master of the soldier." THEODORE ROOSEVELT

Welcome to the thread. Please, try to post your opinions instead of ganging up on someone already involved in a long arguement. Thanx.

Thanks for the lesson in board etiquette however unneeded and unwanted it is. I didn't gang up on anyone, rather I pointed out a major flaw in taking this article seriously.

And if you're in Iraq, you are losing. You lost before you got there, see... that's how I know. Which is the point of the article posted above and I'm greatly pleased to see another US soldier reading this (there are a few others lurking here).

That's how you know? What do you know? You haven't demonstrated any knowledge; rather just cut and pasted someone else’s biased opinions. Now read carefully because I'm going to point out the only real correlation between the Iraq and Vietnam wars. Ho Chi Min and the Iraqi insurgents have the same modus operandi, which is to degrade the American public’s tolerance for the war using soldier’s deaths as their vehicle. The more the American public expresses anti war rhetoric like you posed above the more the insurgents kill soldiers because they think that plan is working. You my friend are their ally in this endeavor, The blood of American soldiers stain your hands, weather you are bright enough to realize that or not.

Also, please take care what you post. Remember - your CO is reading this.

I'll print it out and show it to him, you know about as much about the political leanings of the officers in the USA as you do about the war in Iraq; none.

"Diplomacy is utterly useless when there is no force behind it; the diplomat is the servant, not the master of the soldier." THEODORE ROOSEVELT

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:11 AM

GHOULMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by SlackMasterActual:

lol!

Yea, I'm a terrorist. Ann Coulter? Is that you?

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Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:15 AM

GHOULMAN

W Andrew Terrill, professor at the Army War College's strategic studies institute - and the top expert on Iraq there - said: "I don't think that you can kill the insurgency". According to Terrill, the anti-US insurgency, centred in the Sunni triangle, and holding several cities and towns - including Fallujah - is expanding and becoming more capable as a consequence of US policy.

"We have a growing, maturing insurgency group," he told me. "We see larger and more coordinated military attacks. They are getting better and they can self-regenerate. The idea there are x number of insurgents, and that when they're all dead we can get out is wrong. The insurgency has shown an ability to regenerate itself because there are people willing to fill the ranks of those who are killed. The political culture is more hostile to the US presence. The longer we stay, the more they are confirmed in that view."

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