REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Christians Angry that Tonto is Pagan in 'Lone Ranger' Film

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Friday, July 12, 2013 04:37
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2639
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Sunday, July 7, 2013 7:48 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

The new "Lone Ranger" film has been a critical and box office disappointment, but the fact that the Indian character "Tonto" is not a Christian has upset some Christian conservatives.

Dr. Ted Baehr of the Christian Film and Television Coalition is also upset that the U.S. is also upset that the U.S. government is portrayed as "bad" and the army is shown killing Indians, which is historically accurate. http://newsok.com/christians-angry-that-tonto-is-pagan-in-lone-ranger-
film/article/3859397
]

Idiots. Baehr came out with both fists swinging, angry that The Lone Ranger dared to show white people killing Native Americans, that businessmen are ruthless, and that natives were, as he termed it, “pagans.”

Now, the native belief system is many things, but it is absolutely not “pagan.” In the movie, Tonto is portrayed as a member of the Comanche, by Comanche tribesman Johnny Depp. While the portrayal is not a Christian faith, nor is it pagan.

It's entitled "'Lone Ranger' Film 'Pagan,' 'Anti-Christian,' Betrayal of Hero's Character, Say Reviewers", but that's a lie, as only one "reviewer," Baehr, called it "pagan". The other one mentioned (also from a Christian source, "Focus on the Family") "hesitated to call the film "pagan." Noting the prominence of Tanto's perspective, he said, "you see a great deal more spiritism, animism, magic, and portent in everything he sees and does. Spiritism is not an unusual thing to see in movies these days – magical elements that don't exactly jive with Christianity," he argued.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/lone-ranger-film-pagan-anti-christia
n-betrayal-of-heros-character-say-reviewers-99355/#FWwkeCzDQ5WIEpWw.99


From what I've seen of the reviews, there are negatives mentioned with regard to many aspects of it. But trust the ultra-religious to try and complain about it being something it's not.

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 8:58 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


So reading the cited story on Christian Post, it's really more:

"One Christian Conservative notes that Tonto is Pagan (non-Christian) and that the film makes fun of and demeans Christians."

But that's not as entertaining, I guess.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 10:30 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


He said a helluva lot more than that. If that's all you want to focus on, you're free to. Me, I don't find any of what he said "entertaining".

It's a shame you're so stuck on auto pilot that anything I ever post brings out the worst in you. I'm not that interesting or that important, I should think you could find much more interesting threads to engage in, rather than just snark automatically. Tho' far be it from me to do anything to interfere with YOUR "entertainment".


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Sunday, July 7, 2013 11:08 AM

WHOZIT


This just adds insult to injury, the flick is a mess and too long. This and "Whitehouse Down" are over produced clunkers with silly stories. Everyone I talk with about the "Avengers" who's seen it they say how much they loved that it has a story, not just a lot of explosions and CGI. Hollywood better learn real fast that P.C. and/or a crappy script repell ticket buyers no matter how many explosions there are.

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 11:56 AM

OONJERAH



Pretty sure I'd only see tLR under duress. Reviews, trailer &

stills turned me off. Fran Striker must be turning over in his

grave. But to be fair, it is the Disney Way. Walt didn't have

a lot of originality; so he always took the classics & messed

them up.

True to the original characters? Excuse me! The Lone Ranger

was a Texas Ranger, not a freaking Lawyer! Why mess up such

a basic, central element? Out of flagrant disrespect perhaps?

Tonto unrecognisable under a plaster of make up & with a dead

bird on his head! I love you, Johnny, but this is wrong!

The Lone Ranger with a 5 day growth of beard? -- always a gross

out for me.

However ... they say that Silver is so great in it, he almost

saves the movie. Too bad they didn't let him write & direct it!



======================

A man's gotta know his limitations. ~Dirty Harry

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 7:21 PM

OONJERAH



“THE LONE RANGER” SHOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT ALONE by David Denby

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2013/07/the-misguided-lo
ne-ranger.html


"... At the core of any Western, serious or comic,

there is always a beautiful simplicity ..."


======================

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 9:35 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Feh, non-issue, but while I like Depp as an actor, fer cryin out loud couldn't they have actually found a native american for the role ?
While not QUITE as offensive, as say, casting a caucasian actor in blackface, still, the general theme of annoyance is there, you know ?

I mean, look at Chief Dan George, who played Lone Waitie in The Outlaw Josey Wales - good actor, nice guy, and frankly he stole many a scene right out from under Clint Eastwood!

-F

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Sunday, July 7, 2013 11:14 PM

OONJERAH


Off Topic -


The Outlaw Josey Wales (1976)

This is from IMDb:

"Because of Chief Dan George's age, he would have trouble

remembering his lines so during takes, Clint Eastwood would

begin to mouth his lines without realizing it and had to be

told to stop because it would ruin the take. In a featurette

on the DVD about making the film, Eastwood says he'd have

people drill Dan George on his lines, but when it came time to

shoot the scene, he'd say "Chief, just forget about the lines

- tell me the story about the man who rode over the hill."

And Dan George, who was apparently a natural storyteller would

tell the story and it would be perfect."

and

"This movie received a lot of high praise among Native American

viewers for its non-stereotypical portrayal of Native Americans

in the film."

I believe Clint was perfectly happy to have his scenes stolen by CDG.

Chief Dan George 1899 - 1981


======================

A man's gotta know his limitations. ~Dirty Harry

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Monday, July 8, 2013 1:28 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
It's a shame you're so stuck on auto pilot that anything I ever post brings out the worst in you.



Not everything.

But when you lump a large and diverse group of people together and then use a well-spun article about one person's opinion on one thing to damn all Christians...

Yep. Sort'a brings out the worst in me.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, July 8, 2013 1:48 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


The article does say 'some Christian conservatives' not 'all Christians everywhere'.

You should grow a skin.

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Monday, July 8, 2013 2:32 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Wow, I "damn all Christians"? Is it personal with you or something? Is that what this is about?

Let me make myself clear, just once. I have nothing against ANYONE's FAITH. Faith is a magnificent thing. Organized religion can abuse that faith. I happen to think there is a segment of people in America who call themselves "Christian", and no doubt think they are, who seem to use their religion to define just about everything and everyone, and somehow believe everyone else should, as well. That they have utilized their power to judge and harm others makes them, to me, a very REAL threat in this country and that's why I speak out when I see things they do and say which I believe are egregious. Not all Christians, no more than a very loud, vocal contingent of them, but they have POWER and they have power over our government, and they're quite aggressive in using it. That's why I don't highlight what other religions are doing; in my country, other religions don't have anything like the power and don't use that power to anything like the degree these so-called "Christians" do. I don't actually consider them true Christians, for whom I have the highest regard, because the person they name themselves after, Christ, taught PRECISELY THE OPPOSITE of what they speak/practice in their lives. I feel the same about Muslims who are extremists and that buddhist faction currently causing violence overseas. But these "Christians" are a problem in MY country, and get laws passed that affect ME, so I point them out. If you can't see that, you're not as smart as I've always thought you are. Period.


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Monday, July 8, 2013 12:58 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Bust of a movie.

Is it true the story of why the LR wears a mask was completely distorted to fit some PC crap about white mans guilt? Lame if so.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, July 8, 2013 3:36 PM

OONJERAH


The Lone Ranger: Justice from Outside the Law by Robert Siegel
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18073741


Yes, I did listen to tLR on the radio when I was a kid.

^This is a good article about the Lone Ranger's origins &
early days. It gives a lot of details that I had forgotten
and some I never knew.

It discusses the mask, & more importantly, the Lone Ranger's
Creed. We admired & looked up to him, a true hero, albeit too
good to be true. The Mask is Secrecy, not PC.

It's wrong to mess with him, to update him.


Aside from that, what about Jay Silverheels, the actor?

Jay has a quite substantial filmography both before and
after the Lone Ranger TV series, 1949-1957. (IMDb)

My Favorite Westerns, Archive: Jay Silverheels
http://myfavoritewesterns.com/category/jay-silverheels/

Scrolling halfway down this page, I found Kirby Slatter's
handsome painting, I Am Crow. It's the visual inspiration
for Depp's Tonto.


=========================== === = >

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 2:52 PM

OONJERAH



Shot in the Hand, Like by an Old-time Hero!

Man brandishing gun shot by El Dorado County sheriff's deputy
http://www.news10.net/news/article/249634/2/Man-brandishing-gun-shot-b
y-El-Dorado-County-sheriffs-deputy


A man brandishing a gun was shot in the hand Wednesday by an El Dorado County sheriff's deputy, the sheriff's office said.

Joshua Whitecotton, 21, was taken to the University of California, Davis Medical Center and is expected to survive. He will be charged with assault with a deadly weapon, the sheriff's office said.

Whitecotton was using the gun to threaten people who wouldn't give him a ride at around midnight Wednesday near the El Dorado County Library on Silva Valley Parkway, the sheriff's office said. When law enforcement officers arrived, Whitecotton brandished the gun at a deputy. The deputy shot Whitecotton in the hand.


(Whitecotton's motive justified? Far as I can see, all the libraries in El Dorado county, even the Main one, are kind of Off the beaten path. And we have little public transportation, none at midnight. At least he got his ride instead of getting dead.)



======================
A man's gotta know his targets.

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 4:53 PM

JONGSSTRAW


I grew up watching The Lone Ranger tv series and it was one of my favorite western shows of that period. Sometimes when something from the past was so perfect it just shouldn't be messed with. I do understand that the non-pc and violent nature of shows from the 50's and 60's doesn't sit too well in today's world. That's one of the reasons they need to be left alone.

Today you can watch original episodes of Rawhide and The Rifleman every Saturday morning on AMC. I watch them with great fondness because I haven't seen them in almost 50 years. Many of the episodes feature established actors who were just starting out then, and to see them so young is very enjoyable. The shows are all mostly morality plays....good versus evil. They're honest, raw, and violent, much like Firefly was. I hope the ratings are good enough for AMC to keep airing them, and I hope they add other shows to the lineup.

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 5:29 PM

WISHIMAY


Me and my young'un like The Rifleman, wah-huh.
(amble away again with my spurs jingle-jangleing)

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:05 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Everything Jong said, and yes, I never miss Rawhide reruns. Have sung the theme song in my head ever since I watched it when younger, know all the words to that, Maverick and others.

Now the question I've asked before, and when I did I recall there was at least one other person who remembered: "Sky King", anyone remember? I spent my Saturday mornings with all those guys, even back to Autrey and Rogers...never was much of a Rifleman fan (too mentally heavy), but I remember every single one, plus some few others remember, like the Cisco Kid...

I say leave 'em alone; but Hollywood is a dearth of new ideas, and hell, if they'll bring back Hansel and Gretel, and Jack and the Beanstalk, nothing's sacred, obviously!


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Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:56 PM

OONJERAH



Sky King, Bobby Benson of the B-bar-B, Sgt Preston of the Yukon.
Who was the Cisco Kid?
*smooooch!*
"Ooooohhh, Cisco!"
"Uhooooohhh, Senorita!"
===================

And back to tLR: "Who was that Masked Man?"
"I dunno, but look! He dropped something!"
"What is it?"
" --- it's ... it's a silver bullet!"

Distant, "Hiyo, Silver, awaaaaay!"


Do I remember? a little bit. :)



======================
A man's gotta know his limitations. ~Dirty Harry

Rawhide.
No, I'm not gonna tell about the time Clint Eastwood walked right past me!!!
*swoons again!*

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Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:29 PM

OONJERAH



40's Radio continued:

Jack Benny, Amos & Andy, Fibber McGee & Molly, Ozzie & Harriet,
Evening with George Burns, Judy Canova Show, Batman, Ellery Queen,
Father Knows Best, Gunsmoke, Gangbusters, Hopalong Cassidy, Red
Skelton, The Whistler. & much more!


======================
All I suggest is a man hears what he wants to hear or changes the Radio Station.

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Friday, July 12, 2013 1:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Wishimay:
Me and my young'un like The Rifleman, wah-huh.
(amble away again with my spurs jingle-jangleing)



Think Hollywood will ever bring THAT story to the big screen ?

If only they could take that concept, and some how update it somehow. Maybe include, oh I don't know, space ships ? And have it set in the distant future ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, July 12, 2013 3:47 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Ahhh, Oonj, ya got me beat! I'm a child of the '50s, even I don't remember some of those, and the others, from TV, not radio. Black and white, when there were three whole stations, and they all had test pattern on overnight until 6am when the farm report came on--watched a lot of farm reports as a kid and never knew what a word of it meant, just itching for them to get ON with it and get to the "good stuff".

How could I forget Hopalong???

You young'uns don't know how good you got it, heh, heh, heh...




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Friday, July 12, 2013 4:37 AM

DEVERSE

Hey, Ive been in a firefight before! Well, I was in a fire. Actually, I was fired from a fry-cook opportunity.


While the demise of the local TV station was brought about by cable, some locals still exist and are still running - but likely not for much longer.
Anyway, I eagerly await Saturday mornings because I get to watch TV like;

Have Gun-Will Travel (Paladin) (Richard Boone)
Wanted Dead or Alive (Steve McQuuen)
Rawhide (Clint Eastwood)
The Adventures of Rin Tin Tin
Maverick (James Garner)
Wild Wild West (Robert Conrad)
The Rifleman (Chuck Conners)

and then one of those great westerns like a RKO western with someone like Randolf Scott, Ronald Regan, John Wayne, Tim Holt, Audie Murphy...

How come there isn't more TV like that any more?


Oh let the sun beat down upon my face;
With stars to fill my dream;
I am a traveler of both time and space;
To be where I have been

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