REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The McDonalds War

POSTED BY: MAGONSDAUGHTER
UPDATED: Thursday, August 1, 2013 04:03
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Friday, July 19, 2013 2:37 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I know there was a thread on this, but I don't know how to search on this forum, so I'm posting updated developments.

Quote:

I'm often asked why my community is fighting McDonald's. It's quite simple.

Living in Australia's Dandenong ranges is an honour and a privilege. I should know, because last week I notched my 54th year here. I was born here and spent my childhood collecting lizards and frogs in the near by national park. I was married in the shadow of Mount Dandenong, bought my first home on one side of a hill and my second on the other side – in a small town called Tecoma.

On sunny days, I like to remind myself how good I have it, watching Kookaburras in my garden surrounded by nothing but trees, and listening to the whistle of the iconic Puffing Billy locomotive. It’s not a suburb; it’s very much a way of life.

So I was very much surprised when I first found out McDonald's wanted to build a 24/7 take away drive through store only 400 meters from my home. It was obvious that such plans in no way fitted the character of Tecoma. It was too close to the school and kindergarten, too close to the national park, and in a precinct that closes at 8:30pm each night. It made little sense.
tecoma residents Tecoma residents during a protest. Photograph: John Weeks

My community confirmed my feelings: 1,170 people wrote objections to the council, and the council listened. They voted it down 9 to 0. The people had spoken, and democracy was in working condition. That should have been the end of it, sadly it wasn’t.

McDonald's felt they knew better than the locals, and challenged it at the Victorian civil and administrative tribunal. They chose to launch the appeal a few days before Christmas, perhaps hoping to take advantage of the fact that many were off on holidays and wouldn’t respond. Regardless, 400 managed to pull together submissions from what was now a passionate community. In mid 2012, the tribunal heard our submissions, but they also heard from a large multi-national that had deep pockets and could engage experts and highly paid planning lawyers.

McDonald's won, and a community’s heart was broken.

At that point, something wonderful happened. A lot of people would have shrugged their shoulders, resigning themselves to the outcome. Tecoma did not. We came together and stood up. Everyone agreed that our democratic process had been breaking down.

A community garden was swiftly planted. The garden became a rallying point for what has become the most talented, tenacious and organised community most will ever see. I watched people offer their talents in a plan to move the battle away from the traditional courts, and in the court of public opinion: we would make McDonald's understand that they are not wanted and not welcome.
tecoma residents 'Burger off'. Photograph: John Weeks

McDonald's quickly tried to counter the sympathy we were generating by claiming that “whilst only a vocal minority are against the project, the vast community are supportive”. We were gob-smacked: at best, it was clumsy PR, and not at all reflective of our experience. So census takers volunteered to knock on every door in the town. Our results showed that nine out of 10 people did not want them in our town.

People offered us money, further support, and asked about marching and protesting. It was something we had not considered, but immediately planned. We hoped to get 400 to 500 out in the streets, instead 3,000 turned out. It was a major tipping point. CNN picked up our plight and our story was tweeted to millions of Twitter users.

Tecoma, the little town that roared, became an international cause.

Since then I have seen my community very much punching above its weight. When McDonald's tried to demolish an iconic building on the site some 17 days ago, we hoped to hold them off for a day. We are still holding. Our blockade consists of soldiers, doctors, teachers, builders, salesmen, nurses, the young, the old, the serious and the funny. In other words, a community.

Today the radio news led with the fact that McDonald's would try and stop our blockade through the supreme court. A guy in a business suit came to the blockade and asked, “who’s in charge?” He then opened his wallet and handed over $250. “I just heard on the radio, that’s for legal fees, I’ll bring more money and friends. Someone has to stand up to these bastards”.

Yes, Tecoma is special – its people are testament to that.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/18/tecoma-mcdonalds-b
attle

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Friday, July 19, 2013 4:55 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Well it SHOULD be the decision of the people that live there, and that McDonalds doesn't seem to wish to accept this is certainly a black mark against them - beats me why they'd even push the matter at this juncture cause of the bad PR and simple economic facts of building a restaurant which would be all but instantly blackballed and boycotted, and would have trouble even finding staff, this is just throwing good money after bad.

-F

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Friday, July 19, 2013 6:56 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


They have a history of being libelous to the extreme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLibel_case

Basically there are enough idiots out there ready to eat this junk, so they basically don't care much about their image.

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Saturday, July 20, 2013 1:12 AM

FREMDFIRMA



There's that, but I think they're underestimating the ability to small towns and communities to make things difficult for them in this case.
Mind you, when WE told them no, they just went "Okay, we'll go somewhere else", no fuss, no muss...
(not that there's not a plethora of em just up and down the road, mind)
I dunno, maybe they're more familiar with the way Michiganders can hold a grudge, bloody hell, nuclear power still gets a stiff reception around here cause of Fermi and that was back in 1966.

-F

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Monday, July 22, 2013 11:34 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


macca's is suing for costs

The eight Tecoma residents being sued by McDonald's for causing delays in the construction of a new store in the quiet Dandenong Ranges township say the action is designed to spread fear and doubt in the community.

On Sunday the group came together after a court injunction was served on them last week.

The notice prevented them from trespassing and stopping trucks getting in and out of the site for at least two weeks as part of their protest against the development.

The fast food giant is suing the eight protesters for occupying the roof of the building set to be demolished to make way for the store and for interfering with McDonald's ''use and enjoyment'' of the land.
Advertisement

It is seeking damages for delays in construction, loss of sales, and employment of security guards.

The ''Tecoma eight'' are part of a community campaign known as ''Burger Off!'' that is seeking to stop the construction of the 24-hour McDonald's.

The store was originally rejected by the local council, but was later approved by the Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal after McDonald's challenged.

They spoke to Fairfax Media on Sunday in the nearby Dandenong Ranges National Park. One member, Ava Freeland, said the injunction was causing confusion and fear over what action could still be taken by others in the community.

''A lot of people are uncertain about what they can and can't do and I think that was McDonald's purpose,'' she said.

Ms Freeland said the group decided to take ''peaceful direct action'', such as occupying the roof of the building because they had tried everything else through the legal system and ''we really thought it was our last resort''.

Another member, Karl Williams, said: ''We feel the system has let us down and out of desperation we want to highlight not just how wrong this development is but how the whole system is stacked against communities.''

Another, Jude Alexander, said she and her counterparts were being made an example of so the threat would resonate ''in the minds of anybody who is thinking about civil disobedience''.

The group, claiming to have the backing of the local community, said that a survey found that nine in 10 residents opposed the new McDonald's, that 3000 had attended past rallies, and other community members had continued protesting at the site.

But McDonald's claims the protesters hold a minority view.

Seven of the eight are also facing criminal charges related to occupying the existing building's roof and stopping trucks as part of the protests.

One of their bail conditions is that the seven are unable to come within 100 metres of the site, restricting their access to the nearby Tecoma shops.

Construction at the site was halted on July 3 with the Construction, Forestry, Mining and Energy Union members downing tools, citing safety concerns.

A McDonald's spokeswoman said the company respected the right to protest lawfully but in this case it needed to seek relief from the court to safely build the restaurant in accordance with planning approval.

''This means removing those trespassing on the roof and those obstructing movement to and from the site,'' she said.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mcdonalds-uses-fear-tactic-say-tecom
a-eight-20130722-2qerx.html#ixzz2ZoPMI57R


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Monday, July 22, 2013 11:39 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Difference between this story and those wanting to build a mosque at the site of the WTC towers ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, July 22, 2013 1:21 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"... because they had tried everything else through the legal system ..."

There's no appeal of provincial decisions? Drat.

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Monday, July 22, 2013 1:27 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


BIG BUSINESS, BIG GOVERNMENT, little people


Jun 6, 2013

Turkish Leader Says Razing of Istanbul Park Will Proceed.


Jul 3, 2013

A Turkish court has blocked a government decision to redevelop Istanbul's Gezi Park, which had sparked protests that drew 2.5 million people


Jul 13, 2013

Turkish police have cleared Istiklal Avenue, firing water cannon and tear gas at
hundreds of protesters as they gathered to march to Gezi Park.


Jul 22, 2013

Istanbul's administrative court gave a green light to demolish city's Gezi Park, which was at the center of heated nationwide protests



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Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:05 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Magons, it's a lovely story, but I fear in the end Tecoma will lose. I don't know any community that has won that fight; does anyone else? They have the money and the power, which usually equals 'the law', behind them and they can keep it up virtually forever. I sincerely hope I'm proven wrong.


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Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:12 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


I'm off to the protest on Sunday, so I might post some actual pics.

I can imagine some of the crusty old hills dwelling locals will never let this rest, even if they build the place.

This sucks big time. The place is a lovely location, views across the ranges. A bottle neck of a road already, as there is only one main route up the hills 'the mad mile' we call it. Got stuck there during the fires, bumper to bumper waiting to get out.


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Tuesday, July 23, 2013 6:23 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


So was it proposed to be sited on the 1500 block of Burwood Hwy, along with the other local take-away food stores?

Looking at the Google map of Tecoma (search 'Tecoma primary school, Tecoma, Australia'), it appears that if it's located across from the primary school (as noted several times), it'll be in the same block as Tecoma Charcoal Chicken/Big Al's Pizza (1563), Tecoma Fish & Chips & Pizza(1541), and Chicken A.go.go Tecoma (1527) (appears to be an Australian chain - not a local mom & pop).

http://www.localbusinessguide.com.au/victoria/tecoma/food-and-dining/t
ake-away-food
/

So it looks less like opposition to fast food (or fast food chains) and related mess, and more like opposition to the name McDonalds.

BTW, Tecoma looks like a nice suburb of Melbourne, but hardly in the center of undisturbed wilderness. Try the Google street view to see what looks like a typical suburban commercial shopping street.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:25 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Magon's

I have an idea. Yeah, the place will probably go up - and some damage will be done. BUT - it doesn’t have to stay that way. You COULD encourage locals to apply for work, but boycott the food. That would get them coming and going.

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Tuesday, July 23, 2013 3:33 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


So Geezer -

You don't think the people of Tecoma should have their opinion and their right to their community the way they want it, b/c you disagree with WHY you THINK they have their views.

You really like self-determination THAT much hunh? That was sarcasm, btw.

google street view

http://www.streetviews.co/?e=-37.916667,145.35:0:Tecoma,%20Australia

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Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:52 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So Geezer -

You don't think the people of Tecoma should have their opinion and their right to their community the way they want it, b/c you disagree with WHY you THINK they have their views.



Depends. If they didn't want an Indian restaurant because they didn't want to attract 'Blacks', I'd have a problem.

If they don't want McDonalds, they should at least be honest about why. I object to the "Oh, they'll destroy the pristine beauty of our community" bullshit.

Quote:

google street view

http://www.streetviews.co/?e=-37.916667,145.35:0:Tecoma,%20Australia



Not what I saw. Go to Google Earth, search 'Tecoma primary school, Tecoma, Australia" and do the street view there. Directly across from the primary school is a block of stores with a mini-mart, gift stores, a fish & chips shop, a florist, an antiques/furniture shop, beauty salons, a tattoo parlour, a travel agent, a realtor, chicken and pizza shop, etc.

Not exactly a historic district.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Tuesday, July 23, 2013 7:04 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Old fart

"If they don't want McDonalds, they should at least be honest about why. I object to the "Oh, they'll destroy the pristine beauty of our community" bullshit."

How do you know what they consider pristine and beautiful? Your arrogance of presuming to know what's in their minds is astounding. Especially when they are telling you what IS truly in their minds.

You know, you can't but help reveal your utter disdain for people, especially when you get to veer in favor of business at the same time. You CLAIM to want people running their own lives. You CLAIM to want small government. You CLAIM to want a society where one doesn't get to force something on another that doesn't want it - or a lot of others. They don't want it. That should be enough for you to support them wholeheartedly, no quibble or question. That is, if you do believe what you CLAIM to believe. B/c you sure don't act it.


Oh yeah, btw - are you also claiming that what I posted ISN'T Tecoma?

And now, I'm done with you.



ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!


To little rappy from Chris,IsAll: "you are merely a fucking asshole. Quote THAT, you sad little fascist biological reality"

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Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:31 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
So was it proposed to be sited on the 1500 block of Burwood Hwy, along with the other local take-away food stores?

Looking at the Google map of Tecoma (search 'Tecoma primary school, Tecoma, Australia'), it appears that if it's located across from the primary school (as noted several times), it'll be in the same block as Tecoma Charcoal Chicken/Big Al's Pizza (1563), Tecoma Fish & Chips & Pizza(1541), and Chicken A.go.go Tecoma (1527) (appears to be an Australian chain - not a local mom & pop).

http://www.localbusinessguide.com.au/victoria/tecoma/food-and-dining/t
ake-away-food
/
So it looks less like opposition to fast food (or fast food chains) and related mess, and more like opposition to the name McDonalds.

BTW, Tecoma looks like a nice suburb of Melbourne, but hardly in the center of undisturbed wilderness. Try the Google street view to see what looks like a typical suburban commercial shopping street.



Yes, it is opposition to both McDonalds the multinational, but also the impact of having a 24 hour drive through in that location. The difference in numbers of cars and people (and resulting detritus) who would use McDonalds 24 hours around the clock and the Charcoal Chicken takeaway or Pizza place cannot be compared. Most of these shops are very small business, owner and one or two staff at most and open fairly restricted hours. Certainly none are 24 hours.

yes, people object to big name fast food multinationals as opposed to locally owned stores.

Tecoma is by no means a wilderness, but it is the gateway to an area known as the Dandenongs which contains mountain ash national parks and a city/rural fringe population. The Dandenongs or "the Hills" as it is known locally, has a particular community feel. It's an interesting demographic, very mixed politically and economically, but what a lot of people want from this area is not to live in your standard suburbs, but somewhere with a bit more community and less chain stores/parking lots. A bit more rustic,villagy if you like. In either direction, about 15 - 20 minutes drive you get all the fast food/supermarkets/chain stores your hearts can desire if that floats your boat (including McDonalds)


It is a nice area to live in, but one of the most dangerous for severe fires, given the mountain ash forests.

Edited to answer other posts. People have been honest about the reasons why they don't want the McDonalds in numerous submissions. They include problems with traffic, the 24 hours opening, litter, the visual impact and lots more.

You're the one that used the term 'pristine wilderness'. Garry said

" It was obvious that such plans in no way fitted the character of Tecoma. It was too close to the school and kindergarten, too close to the national park, and in a precinct that closes at 8:30pm each night. "

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Tuesday, July 23, 2013 8:48 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


some photos of the area, including Tecoma









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Wednesday, July 24, 2013 5:24 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Oh yeah, btw - are you also claiming that what I posted ISN'T Tecoma?



Well, since the picture on your link shows an approximate address of 63 Kaola Street, Belgrave, Victoria, I kind'a have my doubts. Per the map on the link you provided, it's about a kilometer South of Tecoma Primary School and the Burwood Hwy.

Also not too sure what a residential street that's not near where the proposed McDonalds would be built has to do with anything.

BTW, here's the street directly across from the school.
http://www.streetviews.co/?point=-37.91644,145.34998:0:Tecoma, Australia:sv:0

ETA: Oops. Try this one. Not sure why the previous link defaulted to Koala St. again.

http://www.streetviews.co/?point=-37.906856,145.345117:100.81575952267
167:Tecoma:bigsv:0



"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, July 24, 2013 7:19 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Yes, it is opposition to both McDonalds the multinational, but also the impact of having a 24 hour drive through in that location. The difference in numbers of cars and people (and resulting detritus) who would use McDonalds 24 hours around the clock and the Charcoal Chicken takeaway or Pizza place cannot be compared. Most of these shops are very small business, owner and one or two staff at most and open fairly restricted hours. Certainly none are 24 hours.

yes, people object to big name fast food multinationals as opposed to locally owned stores.

Tecoma is by no means a wilderness, but it is the gateway to an area known as the Dandenongs which contains mountain ash national parks and a city/rural fringe population. The Dandenongs or "the Hills" as it is known locally, has a particular community feel. It's an interesting demographic, very mixed politically and economically, but what a lot of people want from this area is not to live in your standard suburbs, but somewhere with a bit more community and less chain stores/parking lots. A bit more rustic,villagy if you like. In either direction, about 15 - 20 minutes drive you get all the fast food/supermarkets/chain stores your hearts can desire if that floats your boat (including McDonalds)


It is a nice area to live in, but one of the most dangerous for severe fires, given the mountain ash forests.

Edited to answer other posts. People have been honest about the reasons why they don't want the McDonalds in numerous submissions. They include problems with traffic, the 24 hours opening, litter, the visual impact and lots more.

You're the one that used the term 'pristine wilderness'. Garry said

" It was obvious that such plans in no way fitted the character of Tecoma. It was too close to the school and kindergarten, too close to the national park, and in a precinct that closes at 8:30pm each night. "



Thanks for being honest about it.

The first article you cited went on about how a McDonalds on the main street of Tecoma would be too close to schools and the local national park, when it wouldn't have been any closer that the many businesses, including fast food take-away, already there. Not sure what effect 24 hour service would have on the school, unless the kids go to school all night. Claims about rubbish from a drive-thru have more to do with the patrons than the store itself.

So it's all about the good folks there opposing multinationals; unless they're the multinationals making the Toyotas, Mitsubishis, Nissans, Mazdas, and various GM and Ford products folks are driving down Burwood.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Wednesday, July 24, 2013 11:34 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer

Thanks for being honest about it.

The first article you cited went on about how a McDonalds on the main street of Tecoma would be too close to schools and the local national park, when it wouldn't have been any closer that the many businesses, including fast food take-away, already there. Not sure what effect 24 hour service would have on the school, unless the kids go to school all night. Claims about rubbish from a drive-thru have more to do with the patrons than the store itself.

So it's all about the good folks there opposing multinationals; unless they're the multinationals making the Toyotas, Mitsubishis, Nissans, Mazdas, and various GM and Ford products folks are driving down Burwood.




I'm pretty sure locals would oppose car factories in Tecoma as well.

I think I tried to give you a pretty good description of the Dandenongs, which included Belgrave BTW, so the photo ikiki posted is pretty much spot on for Tecoma as well. I also think Garry's article describes what he perceives the objections to be. A lot of people really dislike McDonalds. It's visually ugly, it produces rubbish food, it underpays its workers, it underpays farmers for produce and its gotten a rotten reputation as a company for being litigious.

That being said, locals objected to a large supermarket chain from building on this sight a few years ago, and won. So its not just McDonalds. So its not all about opposing multinationals (although that's part of it), but wanting a good fit for the area. You don't seem to be able to grasp that people can have multiple reasons, and different reasons.

A few checks on Google Images does not make you an expert in the area, on what it is like, on the people who live here, their values and beliefs, on what the experience is of living here. But you are of course entitled to your opinion. Just keep in mind that it does not impact you on any level, whereas it does me.

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Wednesday, July 24, 2013 6:27 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


AND NOT A WORD ABOUT WHY HE TREATS PEOPLE ATTEMPTING TO RUN THEIR OWN LIVES AND COMMUNITY WITH SUCH DISDAIN. YEP, THE OLD FART IS A REAL FREEDOM LOVER. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Oh yeah, btw - are you also claiming that what I posted ISN'T Tecoma?



Well, since the picture on your link shows an approximate address of 63 Kaola Street, Belgrave, Victoria, I kind'a have my doubts. Per the map on the link you provided, it's about a kilometer South of Tecoma Primary School and the Burwood Hwy.

Also not too sure what a residential street that's not near where the proposed McDonalds would be built has to do with anything.

BTW, here's the street directly across from the school.
http://www.streetviews.co/?point=-37.91644,145.34998:0:Tecoma, Australia:sv:0

ETA: Oops. Try this one. Not sure why the previous link defaulted to Koala St. again.

http://www.streetviews.co/?point=-37.906856,145.345117:100.81575952267
167:Tecoma:bigsv:0



"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."



ENJOY YOUR NEXT FOUR YEARS!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - HERE'S LAUGHING AT YOU KID!


To little rappy from Chris,IsAll: "you are merely a fucking asshole. Quote THAT, you sad little fascist biological reality"

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Thursday, July 25, 2013 3:22 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
A lot of people really dislike McDonalds. It's visually ugly, it produces rubbish food, it underpays its workers, it underpays farmers for produce and its gotten a rotten reputation as a company for being litigious.



Not having seen the particular design for Tecoma, I can't comment on that, but I've seen McDonalds that have been designed to fit in well with local buildings. The food is what it is, and is no worse for you than the fried chicken or pizza already on-site, if you don't eat wisely.

My view tends to be that McDonalds has been designated as the whipping-boy for multinationls, so that folks can feel good about protesting against it; while driving to protests in their Toyotas, calling their friends at rallies on their Nokia phones, and watching themselves on the news on their Sony TVs.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, July 25, 2013 4:59 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Geezer: So what?

This is small government, direct-action, local democracy at work. Isn't this what you claim to espouse? Seeing as YOU'RE not in control of this little community (altho it appears you would love to be) they're going to decide on things you don't particularly like. So suck it up, man, or realize that what you REALLY want is small gubmint direct action local democracy that only decides things the way YOU think they should be decided.

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Thursday, July 25, 2013 9:48 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



I'm NOT posting this to give anyone any ideas, o.k. ? Just remember that.

Horse in McDonald's: Horse Refused Drive-Thru, Then Poops on Floor of Restaurant




http://www.christianpost.com/news/horse-in-mcdonalds-horse-refused-dri
ve-thru-then-poops-on-floor-of-restaurant-photo-video-100684/#c6Zkg9T0XG1ZeeDG.99



Bon Appetit !

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, July 25, 2013 12:39 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Geezer: So what?

This is small government, direct-action, local democracy at work. Isn't this what you claim to espouse? Seeing as YOU'RE not in control of this little community (altho it appears you would love to be) they're going to decide on things you don't particularly like. So suck it up, man, or realize that what you REALLY want is small gubmint direct action local democracy that only decides things the way YOU think they should be decided.



right remember that the local council voted against it and McDonalds took it further and appealed that decision.

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Thursday, July 25, 2013 3:54 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Geezer: So what?

This is small government, direct-action, local democracy at work. Isn't this what you claim to espouse? Seeing as YOU'RE not in control of this little community (altho it appears you would love to be) they're going to decide on things you don't particularly like. So suck it up, man, or realize that what you REALLY want is small gubmint direct action local democracy that only decides things the way YOU think they should be decided.



This is local choice too.

Quote:



KLEINFONTEIN, South Africa — At the entrance to this rural settlement is a well-kept shrine to the primary architect of apartheid. Nearby rests an old wheelbarrow, a symbol of the white Afrikaners who once ruled the country. Inside the coffee shop, at the bank, everywhere, there are only white faces.

A white security guard, wearing gray camouflage, checks cars at a gate on the main road. Race is a key factor for entry. No blacks are allowed to buy or rent houses here.

Two decades after the end of apartheid, a system of brutally enforced segregation, this hamlet exemplifies the deep racial divides that still preoccupy South Africa. The existence of Kleinfontein and places like it has set off a debate about the type of country that South Africa should be today.

As Nelson Mandela, the country’s first black president, battles a serious lung infection, many South Africans are examining whether their nation has lived up to his vision of equality, engaging in conversations about race, politics and the economy. That has drawn new attention to all-white communities and the festering legacy of apartheid.

To blacks, Kleinfontein is a remnant of a painful past, a gated community of whites determined to perpetuate racist, apartheid-era practices. The several hundred whites who live here say they need to safeguard their Dutch-based Afrikaner culture and language and seek refuge from affirmative action policies and high crime rates that they blame on blacks. They insist that they are not racist, noting that they don’t welcome Jews, Catholics or any English speakers, either.

Under apartheid, the white Afrikaner-led government forced blacks to live in homelands to separate the races. Today, the residents of Kleinfontein say the creation of Afrikaner homelands is the best way for South Africa to progress under the black-led government of the ruling African National Congress party.

“I am here because outside there’s no place anymore for us. We don’t feel welcome,” said Dries Oncke, 57, a resident. “That’s why we start places like this and build them up. We know as Afrikaners we can be safe here. We have a place where we can be ourselves.”

There are three criteria for living in Kleinfontein: Residents must speak the Afrikaans language, be Protestants and be descendants of the Voortrekkers, the Dutch settlers who left the British Cape Colony in the early 1800s and migrated to the interior of what is now South Africa. They came to be known as Afrikaners.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/whites-only-enclave-resurrects-old
-pains/2013/07/23/9b975aa0-effd-11e2-8c36-0e868255a989_story.html


Or consider what'd happen if the local population in a city in the U.S. decided to erect a creche on the courthouse grounds at Christmas. Or if they decided they didn't want a mosque in their town.

You support those local choices?

As noted above, if the folks in Tecoma really don't want a McDonalds there because they think that one more fast-food place on a retail street is just too much, that's fine. However, if they're just having a feel-good anti-multinational moment at the expense of a local trying to start a franchise (and most of McDucks in Australia are franchisee-owned) I have a problem with that. Given the lack of objective info I've been able to find on the issue, I end up basing my opinion on similar stuff I've seen here, which leads ne to believe that it's more 'feel-good' than actual issues.



"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Thursday, July 25, 2013 7:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, thanks for pointing out the flaws of Libertarianism! Good thing I don't support it.

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Thursday, July 25, 2013 8:25 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

WORK is still on hold at McDonald?s controversial construction site in Tecoma, despite workers showing up to reportedly prepare the site for demolition works earlier this week.

'No Macca's in Tecoma’ spokesman Garry Muratore said workers had been on the roof of the building set to make way for the new restaurant, removing sheets and protesters' signs.

The temporary 2.4m-high hoarding fence, built to keep protesters out of the site, was finished on Tuesday, Mr Muratore said.

McDonald’s spokeswoman Skye Oxenham said the company was "working behind the scenes to progress with works on the site".

She could not say when construction would resume on the new restaurant. It has been more than three weeks since the fast food giant indefinitely delayed construction work after CFMEU union representatives removed workers due to safety concerns.

WorkSafe has visited the site a number of times this week to ensure construction work was being carried out safely.

Spokeswoman Rosanna Bonaccurso said inspectors were "satisfied with current work practices" and would continue to monitor the site.

The "No Macca's in Tecoma" fight continues to gather steam online, with signatures on the group’s change.org petition topping 20,000. Close to 8000 people have signed since Tuesday alone.

Mr Muratore said Supreme Court writs levelled at eight anti-McDonald’s protesters last week had sparked the petition’s rapid growth.

"People can’t believe a corporation would do this to try and silence a community," he said.

Mr Muratore said he was "gobsmacked” by McDonald’s Australia chief executive Catriona Noble’s admission on ABC radio this week that she was not familiar with details of the Supreme Court injunction, specifically that the writ stopped protesters from using social media as 'a call to arms'. "We’re not really trying to fight them,” Ms Noble said.

"All we want is to be able to access our site and build our restaurant.

"I don’t have any problem with them having freedom of speech."


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Friday, July 26, 2013 1:39 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, thanks for pointing out the flaws of Libertarianism! Good thing I don't support it.




Best just let the nanny state/mob rule tell you what's good for you,huh?

Sheep

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, July 26, 2013 3:59 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, thanks for pointing out the flaws of Libertarianism! Good thing I don't support it.



As you once again demonstrate that you not only have no concept of what libertarianism is, but that you'll go out of your way to avoid knowing.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, July 26, 2013 5:29 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:

Best just let the nanny state/mob rule tell you what's good for you,huh?
Rappy- have you even READ the previous posts???
OF COURSE NOT.

This is about a local group of citizens being overturned by both a multinational AND "the nanny state". I'm only responding to point out what an intellectually useless piece of dreck you are. But thanks for playing MISSING THE POINT! You missed by so much you're not even in the same studio, so you win the idiot prize! Here ya go! (hands off prize)

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Friday, July 26, 2013 5:40 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


GEEZER
Quote:

As you once again demonstrate that you not only have no concept of what libertarianism is, but that you'll go out of your way to avoid knowing.
Well, what IS libertarianism? As I recall, that question has been brought up in several threads that I followed, including the one about libertarianism in real life (it never existed).

Did you take the opportunity to explain your views then?

Er.... no.

So what I'm left with is

1) Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead (which I read a long time ago) which are nothing more than schoolgirlish lovesick paeans to a sociopathic criminal, justified by a Nietzscheian superman complex,

2) A comic book whose name I mercifully forget in which people flit around like armed sparrows in a supersized economy over which they have no real control, filled page to page with "if only people would",

3) The Ron/ Rand Paul version, tinged with more than just a soupçon of racism and misogyny,

4) The rappy version, which is "money and power rule". (More like fascism, but I'm sure he thinks he's some sort of independent, or some sort of libertarian).

So, how about YOU explain it? Make it make sense. Since Libertarianism seems to be a very large tent covering a multititude of philospophies, tell us what it is to you, the basis that makes it work (or WOULD make it work), and why we should use it as our model for future action. And for me especially- tell me, what's in it for me, and my disabled child?

Stop whining that we didn't educate ourselves in YOUR viewpoint. Suck it up. 'Splain it to us, Lucy.

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Friday, July 26, 2013 6:09 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


On to more important stuff...

There is more at stake than McDonald's. What about if the regional, state or national government decides YOU need fracking in YOUR backyard?


Fracking controls 'removed in dash for unconventional energy resources


Quote:

Local communities are set to lose control over key environmental decisions affecting whether fracking can go ahead within their midst, it is claimed. Campaigners opposing the industrial-scale exploitation of shale gas reserves in the British countryside said the Government has removed key democratic controls in its dash to bring unconventional energy resources on stream.

Under planning guidelines published last week, councils will no longer be able to investigate issues such as seismic activity, flaring and venting as well as the potential impact on ground water supplies before granting planning permission for new wells. Instead the Department of Energy and Climate Change, the Environment Agency and the Health and Safety Executive will take responsibility for regulation.

It is claimed the new guidelines - which will not be consulted on - will remove local authorities' right to make decisions independent of central Government energy policy.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/fracking-controls-remove
d-in-dash-for-unconventional-energy-resources-8726869.html

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Friday, July 26, 2013 6:52 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


bump for geezer

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Friday, July 26, 2013 2:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


bumpity bump

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Friday, July 26, 2013 2:04 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Oh I think Geezer has been quite clear. Libertariansim does not extend to making local decisions about having multinationals in your neighborhood, because that's just like racism, right? People who don't like multinationals are racist.

I'm sure it makes sense.

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Friday, July 26, 2013 2:10 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Well, I keep waiting for that explanation that I feel might be out there which somehow just never gets posted.

But, yes, your explanation makes perfect sense!

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Thursday, August 1, 2013 12:56 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

What does democracy mean in Victoria? We vote every four years, and if we don't approve of what elected governments are doing on our behalf we can protest - write letters, call talkback radio, sign petitions, demonstrate, blog, Twitter and mobilise our Facebook friends. We talk back to power with impunity, not without risk of surveillance, but generally free from fear of incarceration.

Freedom of speech is no small thing, but is anyone with power actually listening? If you are speaking on behalf of a community that sees its quality of life threatened by fast food outlets, freeways, power stations or coal mines, you probably shouldn't hold your breath waiting for someone in power to respond. You think it's a bad idea to invest in roads when overwhelming evidence points to the need for public transport, never mind destroying precious parkland in order to move gridlocked traffic from the end of the Eastern Freeway into a tunnel? It's not up for debate, least of all by the people immediately affected by it! Government determination to build the east-west tunnel without regard to expert opinion, community opposition, fiscal responsibility or common sense sends a clear message. They have the power and they intend to use it.

Government refusal to engage with the community leaves people opposed to what they consider inappropriate development doubly aggrieved. They are angry about the blight on their landscape, but at a deeper level they are angry about what they see as the circumvention of democratic process involved in its approval. It matters little that the letter of the law has been followed if people feel that the spirit of democracy has been defiled.

The current standoff between protesters and developers at Tecoma is a prime example. Yes, the VCAT decision to allow McDonald's to proceed with their plan for a 24/7 franchise in the Dandenong Ranges was legal, but it lacked legitimacy in the eyes of the community. A consistent theme in published interviews with protesters relates to their sense of democratic outrage. Their elected local government refused McDonald's application for a permit; 90 per cent of surveyed residents did not want McDonald's in their town. Unsurprisingly, people feel cheated when an unelected tribunal rules in favour of a global corporation over the wishes of local government and the community it represents. It might be legal, but it doesn't feel ''democratic''. Nor does McDonald's resort to legal action feel ''just''.
Advertisement

While McDonald's is legally entitled to initiate court action against the ''Tecoma 8'', the asymmetry of money and power leaves people feeling that the law is being used for corporate bullying. The possibility of risking the family home to pay legal expenses deters even the most determined community activist. It is certainly ''legal'', but it is not experienced as ''just'', and when people lose faith in the legitimacy of social institutions, social cohesion is damaged. Naive as it may seem, ordinary people like to think that citizens in a democratic society are equal before the law; McDonald's versus the Tecoma 8 does not feel like ''equality''.

Faith in democracy has also been challenged in the inner north, where the Planning Minister overruled local objections to Singapore Power-AusNet's proposed expansion of the Brunswick Terminal Station's capacity from 22 to 66 kilovolts. Company plans had been twice rejected by the Moreland council on health, safety and environmental grounds, first in 2010, then in 2011. In February 2012 the Planning Minister intervened, rezoning the terminal station site in King Street, East Brunswick, as ''Special Use'' rather than ''Residential 1''. Nothing substantial had changed. The site was still in the middle of a residential area at the edge of the Merri Creek parkland, but this deft stroke of the ministerial pen removed the community's right to further appeal, except through the courts. As in Tecoma, this would be a contest between a global corporation and citizens whose homes were on the line if they lost the case.

While the Planning Minister's decision was ''legal'', those destined to live with its consequences saw it as hijacking democratic process. They responded in the usual ways - wrote letters, held meetings, organised rallies, handed out leaflets, maintained a weekly vigil near the site and presented the Premier with a petition signed by more than 3000 people calling for an independent review panel. A delegation visited minister Guy's electoral office in the hope that, as their representative in the Legislative Council, he might be persuaded to listen to their concerns. They spread their message on social media with a Facebook site, YouTube videos and Twitter. This vigorous exercise of the right to ''free speech'' has been met with resounding silence from Spring Street, with neither Premier nor minister responding to requests from community groups and three councils for a meeting, much less an independent inquiry.

Reflecting on these community campaigns, what might we conclude about the current state of democracy in Victoria? Immediately apparent are the limits to grassroots participation in decision-making about matters of planning and infrastructure. Once elected, state governments are free to impose their vision for the future, over-ruling decisions of local councils and ignoring feedback from constituents. If government power to make these decisions was backed by the authority that comes from being seen as competent and impartial, this would not be a problem. There are always winners and losers in planning disputes, and sometimes local concerns have to be disregarded in the interests of society as a whole. What is at issue here is whether these contested planning decisions are in the interests of society as a whole. If not, whose interests are served? How you answer these questions will shape your views on whether Victoria is better described as a democracy or a corporatocracy.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/corporatocracy-killing-grassroots-dem
ocracy-20130731-2qze5.html#ixzz2aiI2TTbM



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Thursday, August 1, 2013 4:03 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Quote:

Once elected, state governments are free to impose their vision for the future, over-ruling decisions of local councils and ignoring feedback from constituents.


Oh. I thought you were talking about the U.S. In fact, the entire article...isn't news "up" here, it's how things have been for a very long time. Just check out our state abortion laws... ;o)


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