Agree, or disagree ? by AURaptor

America loves a winner!

( the part about how there's a lot of talk and name calling, with little impact, seemed to me most very familiar. )

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Saturday, August 10, 2013 2:34 PM

DEVERSE

Hey, Ive been in a firefight before! Well, I was in a fire. Actually, I was fired from a fry-cook opportunity.

I'm sort of skeptical about it all.

Oh let the sun beat down upon my face;
With stars to fill my dream;
I am a traveler of both time and space;
To be where I have been

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Saturday, August 10, 2013 4:10 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I'm not willing to put 30 minutes into listening to a talk by someone when I don't know who he is or what he's talking about. I listened to the first couple of minutes and it sounded good, but I'm not willing to spend the time listening to the whole thing without more information. "The Goal of Skepticism" doesn't tell me much.

I did get as far as "How many of you no longer believe in those things, became a skeptic, because somebody got in your face, screaming, and called you an idiot, brain damaged and a retard?"

Given that's pretty much what you do to me 99% of the time about whatever I put up here, I find it ironic that you put this up.

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Saturday, August 10, 2013 6:46 PM

I have an OBLIGATION to be a dick to everyone at all times. It is my talent and my duty, and I'm honoured to serve you all in this way as best befitting my particular niche and nuances.

I also have a compulsion to only respond to thread titles instead of the actual content of threads and the topic of discussion. Like adding juggling sparklers to a unicycle routine, you know.

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Sunday, August 11, 2013 2:54 PM

America loves a winner!

Niki - Phil is a noted astronomer, author and skeptic. He is the founder of Bad Astronomy, which aims to debunk any false views about space, the Moon landing hoax nonsense, as well as help clarify on matters where Hollywood gets things wrong concerning space, space travel, and the like. ( No sound in space, for example, would be one fine example, where he'd give Joss thumbs up. )

Phil is a great voice for many things which are of interest to me. Like the pitfalls of what happens when pseudo and junk science go unchecked. And while he's likely more towards your scale of things political, I still value his opinion and passion greatly.

And in particular w/ this video. Much of what he says applies to virtually everyone here. I think it's a worth while view, myself.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 11, 2013 5:12 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

"And in particular w/ this video. Much of what he says applies to virtually everyone here. I think it's a worth while view, myself."

You're just not willing to put it into action.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

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Sunday, August 11, 2013 6:25 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

He obviously has a lot of energy to invest in changing the world. I have no such energy or goal. I just like to point and laugh.

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Sunday, August 11, 2013 11:42 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
"And in particular w/ this video. Much of what he says applies to virtually everyone here. I think it's a worth while view, myself."

You're just not willing to put it into action.

More willing than some, it seems.

At least I can admit my faults.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, August 11, 2013 11:52 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"At least I can admit my faults."

It'd be easier for me to think you can if you could show you did. But you didn't.

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Quote:
As evidence of "rape mentality"...
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The term applies.

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Monday, August 12, 2013 5:18 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I agree, Kiki. "Much of what he says applies to virtually everyone here" doesn't "admit" anything, it just claims "virtually everyone here" engages in getting in others' faces, "screaming", calling them idiots, brain dead and retarded. VERY few people here even come close to that, and the closest is Rap himself, who has called me pretty much all those things in one way or another. I have posted repeatedly the reasons I believe Rap is so obsessively determined to deny some aspects of science, and have merely taken to mocking him because he makes ridiculous statements and flatly refuses to deal with the issue in an intelligent manner.

Do we need examples? Not willing to put time into it, but here's just one:

Quote:
Of course you reject it, because it goes against your religious views. And it's useful idiots like YOU, Niki... As long as there are plenty of gullible , guilt laden dupes to fall in line..."

From my side: "I hereby reject your "source" and their "expert""

And of course we can always look go Jong to make the worst possible personal attacks, in discussions of global warming as well as anything else: Jong to Kiki on the subject: "We already know you're a little bitchy psycho."

So I would argue that "virtually everyone here" is bullshit, and the person singularly most culpable of doing what the speaker described on a regular basis is Rap himself. Again, the irony is unmistakable.

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Monday, August 12, 2013 5:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
He obviously has a lot of energy to invest in changing the world. I have no such energy or goal. I just like to point and laugh.

More and more I'm beginning to appreciate the benefits of this. But it's also like a skin-deep fake uncaring which is apparently a thing that happens. And when something gets under the skin, there is an excess of caring that erupts through the puncture wound sometimes with blood. It's a problem, I'm working on it.

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Monday, August 12, 2013 5:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

And of course we can always look go Jong to make the worst possible personal attacks, in discussions of global warming as well as anything else: Jong to Kiki on the subject: "We already know you're a little bitchy psycho."

Wait, Jong said that? How did I not see this?

Goddammit, I am trying my heart out here to win the prize and yet people keep just giving it away for no reason!

All I ever wanted was someone to acknowledge my little bitchy psycho-ness. Why is that so much to ask? You could all at least give the term to the person it most applies to!

Quote:
So I would argue that "virtually everyone here" is bullshit

Eh, fine I'll take it. But someday I'm going to win it all, not these consolation prizes that get tossed my way.

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Monday, August 12, 2013 5:53 AM

America loves a winner!

I've already admitted I use the sledgehammer approach too often, and for the very reason Phil says he's done or felt like doing the same. Some want me to cite every example and do a mea culpa, but sorry. Not gonna happen. I CAN say ill try to do better, from here on out.

Can you do the same?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, August 12, 2013 5:59 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I've BEEN doing the same for a long time now, your brain just reads right past it. I mock you, but I don't attack you like I used to, and one way I try to avoid it is to speak OF you, not TO you. For me, it reminds me to avoid the trigger and be less nasty.

Would be lovely if you could try to be less nasty; I'm not about to hold my breath, especially as you worded it that you "CAN" say you'll try to be less nasty, you didn't actually SAY you'd try. I've learned over time to read what you write very carefully.

Given what I quoted was from two days ago, I see no effort thus far...

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Monday, August 12, 2013 9:05 AM

America loves a winner!

Curious how you see in me things you can't see in yourself. But then, you're far from the worst offender , I must admit.

Also curious, ( if you've still not watched the entire video yet ) , is how you claim you don't have time to watch it in full, but have no problem posting pages and pages of cut / paste material , routinely, and expect everyone ELSE to read your purple font, in its entirety, before daring to comment on YOUR thread.

But that's just me.

Also, can't help but note how so many have decided to direct their negative comments towards me, instead of discussing the video posted. Ironic, a bit ? In that some here are guilty of doing exactly what's being discussed in the video, and apparently aren't even aware.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, August 12, 2013 9:23 AM

>_>

*raises hand*

I never watch videos. Partially because I'm concerned about spyware and government monitoring that's ubiquitous on youtube and I have script blocking programs that make it a pain to load videos, but also partially because I'd rather read what you all have to say instead of watch it be paraphrased by someone else.

Thus, hours spent posting page long responses to people, yet avoid a minute long youtube snippit.

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Monday, August 12, 2013 9:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Niki - Phil is a noted astronomer, author and skeptic. He is the founder of Bad Astronomy

Oh hey! I like that guy!

...Uwaaah, I'm going to have to watch the video now, aren't I?

(I'm also LAZY)

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Monday, August 12, 2013 9:32 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
I'd rather read what you all have to say instead of watch it be paraphrased by someone else.

In cases such as Dr Plait, who does this sort of thing for a living, I think it's best HE do the talking for me.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, August 12, 2013 9:39 AM

I... guess? I mean I do like the guy, but I've never really held that we should value one person's words more than others just because they're an expert or it's their job.

In fact that seems like even more reason to question.

This is why I don't understand various forms of celebrity worship as well.

However, I do like the guy, and since I like him, he might have a point that I agree with. So I should watch the video. ...Or maybe find a transcript, even though that might take me longer than just watching the thing.

I have quirks, it's not something I can help.

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Monday, August 12, 2013 9:50 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
Also curious, ( if you've still not watched the entire video yet ) , is how you claim you don't have time to watch it in full, but have no problem posting pages and pages of cut / paste material , routinely, and expect everyone ELSE to read your purple font, in its entirety, before daring to comment on YOUR thread.

A. I hope you'll agree I have the right to do with my time what I wish? I might be interested if there was some information telling me what it was about, rather than just "Agree or disagree" and a video. I don't think I said I didn't "have time" to watch it in its entirety; I can't remember the last time I watched a video more than 15 minutes in length, it's just not to my taste. I did watch a couple of minutes of it, and responded, which thus far nobody but Byte and I have bothered to do (I'm not sure if she's watched any of it, which would leave ONLY me).

B. I never EXPECT anyone to read anything; as I've said a dozen times, I put up things I find of interest which I think might be worthy of discussion. People are free to do whatever they want, read, respond or ignore...or in your case, snark.

C. I fail to see the relationship between my being willing to spend half an hour watching a video you think I should watch and my right to post material which is of interest to me. Is there some kind of tit for tat in the rules here?

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Monday, August 12, 2013 9:55 AM

America loves a winner!

He's speaking about a great deal of things which I see here every day.

Strongly held beliefs, belittling of those who hold opposing views, and how it's pointless to bludgeon those from the other side w/ insults and ridicule.

I know many are saying that I'm describing myself, and myself alone. While I can correctly state the opposite, and point right back at them.

And this gets us...where, exactly ?

Now, truth be told here, I don't see eye to eye w/ Dr Phil on everything. In fact, I have corresponded with him, just a little over a year ago, in which he opted to NOT appear on a talk radio show, because he basically thought the guy was a "right wing , hate " radio host ,and had no interest in dealing with his type. I let it be known that I thought he missed a great opportunity to open up to an audience which would greatly benefit from what he had to say. He thanked me but obviously didn't loose any sleep over the matter. Not that he should have.

Again. Cool guy. Like me, is very passionate in what he believes and doesn't suffer fools very well. Unless he really tries his best to do so.

@ Niki - Phil is speaking to a gathering at T.A.M ( The Amazing Meeting ),which is a gathering primarily of skeptics. The Amazing Randi ( James Randi ) , is a leading force behind the convention, I believe. He's a noted skeptic, and debunker of fraud fortune tellers, con-artists posing as Mediums, and the like.

I think you'd find him interesting, if you don't know of him already.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, August 12, 2013 10:11 AM

Quote:
And this gets us...where, exactly ?

huh.

Yes, it sounds like I would agree with this video. I have been concerned for a long time about the cycle going around this board and the effect that it might have on people around here.

We're all just people. So I treat you all like people. And occasionally/often mess around sometimes/ a lot.

No one is trying to destroy civilization with their views or policies they support, no one is trying to threaten anyone else just because of what they think or say. Everyone's legitimately trying to improve conditions around this system, just everyone disagrees on the how and what's important and how to deal with it.

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Monday, August 12, 2013 5:21 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
He obviously has a lot of energy to invest in changing the world. I have no such energy or goal. I just like to point and laugh.

More and more I'm beginning to appreciate the benefits of this. But it's also like a skin-deep fake uncaring which is apparently a thing that happens. And when something gets under the skin, there is an excess of caring that erupts through the puncture wound sometimes with blood. It's a problem, I'm working on it.

FWIW the energy went first. I'm a person who feels compelled to walk my talk. When I can no longer walk the walk, I feel I have no business talking the talk. So, I point and laugh. It's a strategic move on my part to reflect changing circumstances.

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Monday, August 12, 2013 6:06 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"If you lose your faith you'll replace it with SOME OTHER NON-EVIDENCE BASED REASONING"

"... and you know what methods of logic to use AND WHERE TO GET GOOD DATA"

"... it gets frustrating when the same arguments come up over and over again ... LONG DEBUNKED TROPES that are clearly wrong and yet they get thrown at us over and over again ..."

And here you are, little rappy, claiming to be a skeptic. But every discussion where you are vested in a position - the economy was ON FIRE!, Hussein had WMDs! global warming doesn’t exist! and if it does it's not human caused! - to name a few - has you seriously short of any data, full of pseudo-science, and spouting long-debunked tropes. After all your time on this board, and all the charts, facts, links, photos, scientific papers, and analysis of them - when have you admitted to a fact you didn't like based on the weight of the data? The answer is never.

The only thing left to do with you, since it's obvious you have your own religious beliefs - called the holiness of capitalism, the evil of liberals --- and Muslims --- and blacks, especially black democratic presidents ... is for me to point and laugh. Not b/c I want to change your mind - nope, that ship sailed a ling time ago - but b/c you are beyond any kind of rational discussion.

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Quote:
As evidence of "rape mentality"...
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The term applies.

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Tuesday, August 13, 2013 1:40 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:

And here you are, little rappy, claiming to be a skeptic. But every discussion where you are vested in a position - the economy was ON FIRE!, Hussein had WMDs! global warming doesn’t exist! and if it does it's not human caused! - to name a few - has you seriously short of any data, full of pseudo-science, and spouting long-debunked tropes. After all your time on this board, and all the charts, facts, links, photos, scientific papers, and analysis of them - when have you admitted to a fact you didn't like based on the weight of the data? The answer is never.

The economy WAS doing much better, for a while ( remember under 5.0 % unemployment ? ) Saddam WAS in violation of UN resolutions, AGW does NOT exist. There's plenty of valid evidence which debunks your debunk claims.

Quote:

The only thing left to do with you, since it's obvious you have your own religious beliefs - called the holiness of capitalism, the evil of liberals --- and Muslims --- and blacks, especially black democratic presidents ... is for me to point and laugh. Not b/c I want to change your mind - nope, that ship sailed a ling time ago - but b/c you are beyond any kind of rational discussion.

Militant Muslim radicals ARE evil, and how you deny that is beyond comprehension. Dunno what your fascination w/ skin color is , but once again you seem hell bent on bearing false witness against me w/regards to 'blacks'. I dislike this President for his policies, and what he's doing to the country. How much light his skin reflects isn't remotely an issue for me.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:04 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Gawd, Kiki, you're just encouraging him... why??

p.s. "you have your own religious beliefs - called the holiness of capitalism, the evil of liberals --- and Muslims --- and blacks, especially black democratic presidents" -- you forgot "The Gay"... ;o)

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Tuesday, August 13, 2013 7:38 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I mean, just look...Kiki writes "you have your own religious beliefs...the evil of liberals --- and Muslims..." and Rap "translates" this into: "Militant Muslim radicals ARE evil, and how you deny that is beyond comprehension."

Get a clue, guys; HE hasn't got one!

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Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:01 AM

Quote:
Militant Muslim radicals ARE evil, and how you deny that is beyond comprehension.

Militant anything is a problematic and often immoral/evil ideology. Individuals who are militant can be surprisingly decent, though, with families and loved ones and kids and maybe even defying their own stereotypes and intolerances and atrocities.

I call them the "what the eff are you doing" and the "stop helping me" crowd.

In any case, I have all the black and whites and greys of morality, I just stole them all. I'm standing here on this hill waving them like a banner.

You are in a pastoral field. North of you is smoke. South of you is a town. West of you is a road. East of you is a forest.

A flidget hovers next to you. A fluttery animal friend for your adventure! Maybe it can answer some of your questions, such as "where am I," or "how did I get here," or "what the F*** did I drink last night".

"What's your name?"

Well, that works too.

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Tuesday, August 13, 2013 10:23 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

I mean, just look...Kiki writes "you have your own religious beliefs...the evil of liberals --- and Muslims..." and Rap "translates" this into: "Militant Muslim radicals ARE evil, and how you deny that is beyond comprehension."

Get a clue, guys; HE hasn't got one!

It's not a translation, Niki, it's a CORRECTION. Because I don't see the 'evils' of Muslims, any more than I do of Christians, Jews or Hindus. I'm deliberately countering a very deliberate lie. Too much for your to comprehend ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 13, 2013 8:48 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So you disagree with all the data? Got it.

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Quote:
As evidence of "rape mentality"...
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The term applies.

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Tuesday, August 13, 2013 11:16 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Can you do the same?

I already AM doing the same. So are most people here. You just refuse to see it.

BTW- rappy, if there is one thing you should correct in your thinking, it's called cherry-picking. You find a several thousand evil Muslims, and suddenly all Muslims are evil.

You find one tree in Siberia which has a different ring-growth pattern than the infamous climate hockey stick, and it suddenly becomes THE "fact" to which you attach your mental wagon, and not just a local variation.

In fact, when the singular/ rare countervailing fact is unavailable, you'll STILL stick with your fantasies, such as the fantasy that "lowering taxes increases government revenues". (HINT: there is not a single point of evidence in all of the Federal revenue charts and tax tables which could possibly support that claim. And yet... you do.)

It's OK to be a skeptic. I try to be one myself. And there's a lot of gafla (a wonderful word meaning [deliberate] distraction from the important). But in order to discover truth you have to find the IMPORTANT facts, not just the ones that support your views. I challenge you to find several truths which counter your current view of things. If you can actually change your mind, it proves you actually have one.

ETA: BWAHAHAHAHAHA!! I've been scrolling back and happened upon this gem:

Quote:
The economy WAS doing much better, for a while

Yeah, and right after you crowed how GREAT it was doing.... even as I pointed out it was headed for disaster...well, it struck disaster, And under Bush, even!

An experience like that would certainly make ME seriously re-examine my data and my processes. Maybe that would be a good move on your part.

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Wednesday, August 14, 2013 12:01 AM

America loves a winner!

Oh yeah, I see you and others doing the exact same, every time you insult me or others over certain view points. Right.

Quote:
(HINT: there is not a single point of evidence in all of the Federal revenue charts and tax tables which could possibly support that claim. And yet... you do.)

I do, because it's a fact.

( frelling black background - blue line = federal receipts, red line = Top marginal tax bracket. Time period 1960 - 2011 )

JFK, Reagan, and Goerge W. Bush understood, reducing taxes has a stimulative effect on economic activity which leads to an increase in government reciepts. You can’t argue with history!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2012/10/15/do-tax-cuts-increase
-government-revenue/

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 14, 2013 4:04 AM

>_>

Actually to me that looks like government spending always increases long term no matter what the taxes are.

Which is reality, because our government is basically clueless and likes being in debt for some reason.

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Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:51 AM

America loves a winner!

Despite taking in more & more, our Govt is outspending its revenue at cartoonish levels.

The govt has no $ which it does not take from its citizens.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 14, 2013 8:02 AM

But...

I don't... Economy?

I don't understand how a chart showing that government spending always increases regardless of taxes demonstrates that the economy improves when taxes lower.

I mean it could but this isn't the right dataset to determine that.

People talk about tax percentages and growth and interest rates and debt and the economy, but here I am thinking that it mostly gets broken when people/businesses/governments cheat like bandits. :?

I better just go. Talking about economics to me sounds like people talking about the best incantations for lighting stuff on fire. They might be wizards but I'm not sure anyone really understands how it works.

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Wednesday, August 14, 2013 5:16 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

And yet, my chart is vatly different from yours.. Did your guy cook the books?

http://taxprof.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341c4eab53ef01348992e7dd970c-500wi

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Quote:
As evidence of "rape mentality"...
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The term applies.

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Thursday, August 15, 2013 4:17 AM

The two charts might actually both be correct.

Your chart has federal revenue as a percent relative to something, where AURaptor's reports the monetary value of the federal revenue.

Also, his starts in the 1960s, where yours starts in the 1940s. His therefore doesn't include the big jump between 1940 and 1950. And because of the scale and units on his, the line isn't flattened out as much - but if the scales and units were adjusted to be similar, the charts might also LOOK similar.

However, having both lines plotted in terms of the same units does help for comparisons.

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Thursday, August 15, 2013 8:34 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh, rappy's chart prolly doesn't adjust for inflation or some such silly thing. I remember adjusting Federal revenues for inflation and he huffed and puffed "Why did you have to do that"?

Also, there's a difference between lower taxes OVERALL and top marginal tax rates. Under Reagan, the top marginal tax rates went down but lower-income people paid MORE in taxes because deductions that meant a LOT to poorer people- credit card and non-mortgage interest for example- were eliminated.

Rappy really doesn't care about the truth, so it's pointless to bring facts to the table. Every now and again I try, and then I realize all over again how hopeless it is, so I quit.

Rappy, if you're ever interested in becoming a sceptic... and I mean REALLY becoming a sceptic and not just a placard-waving partisan... let me know. Otherwise... pppfffffttt!!!

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Friday, August 16, 2013 1:46 AM

America loves a winner!

Sig - I'm already a skeptic. What I'm NOT is a sour puss cynic. I know the difference. Do you ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, August 16, 2013 8:03 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

If you're a skeptic, as you claim, why do you swallow the right-wing media hook, line, and sinker, without even examining it first? Why do you not even examine your own beliefs? Because skeptics shouldn't HAVE any beliefs, correct? Isn't that the nature of being a skeptic? It's not good skewering what you perceive are OTHER people's beliefs if it's only to bolster your own.

When I look at the news, I not only ask myself "Why are they telling me this NOW?"... because clearly MOST media simply passes along whatever TPTB tell them to- oh, and BTW that includes the RW media which is just as hostage....I also ask myself: What have I NOT heard about lately?

Well... in the non-news today
Libya now supports the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt
Greece is in flames
Honduras military govt being propped up by USA
Bahrain tyranny supported by USA dollars may be on the verge of revolt
The state of the petrodollar is shaky*
The state of the Euro is shaky

Out of the literally hundreds of billions of events that happen in any single day, a few are really important and indicative, and the vast majority are just ghafla. You really think the kidnapped teen in CA deserves the front-page? It's like KIKI said, the news is managed like a bit of theater:

Commercials for the most bloody story of the news show during the day, followed by ....

A weather teaser.
And now, something gruesome from local news, or national news if nothing gruesome happened locally
And now, something international, said with a serious face.
And now, something national, said with a serious face
And now, something funny.
And now, the weather
And now, a heartwarming story about a dog and his boy, or a brave amputee, or a sick child, or whatever it is they could cull from their affiliates across the country

DONE! Roped and hogtied in 15 minutes!

Being an obdurate ass doesn't make anyone a truth-seeker, it just makes them an obdurate ass. Because the FIRST thing you have to do is question YOUR beliefs (I think I said that before). That means not only NOT defending your beliefs to the last inch of your sanity, it also means keeping an open mind when looking at data.

-------------------
So, I'll tell you some data, and you tell me what you think:

The United States has close relationships with religiously fundamentalist monarchies across the Middle East. These nations are ruled by monarchs who impose Sharia law: United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia , Bahrain, Qatar (dual legal system), and Kuwait.

Quote:
The Hanbali school, known for following the most orthodox form of Islam, is embraced in Saudi Arabia and by the Taliban.

http://www.cfr.org/religion/islam-governing-under-sharia/p8034
Not too surprising, Saudi Arabia has used some of it's unimagineable oil wealth to export its religion for the past 40 years (if not more) by building maddrasses in other countries. I recall from my teen years (and that was a long time ago) the fuss that was being made about the many Saudi maddrasses being built in the Horn of Africa, and how the West was simply ceding territory. But that seems not to have been on the minds of TPTB, because they were busy arming the Taliban in Afghanistan. So, at this point, most of the ME is composed of Sunni followers.

Thinking about the nations that we have destabilized or invaded, with the exception of Afghanistan they were all secular: Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt. Now, they are hotbeds of al Qaida.

And, just as a curiosity, with all of those al Qaida cells running around, why have they never attacked Israel?.

Curious, isn't it? So, what do you make of all this?

------------------------

*I had an aterisk on the state of the petrodollar. But first, some petrodollar history-

Quote:
President Richard M. Nixon and his Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, knew that their destruction of the international gold standard under the Bretton Woods arrangement would cause a decline in the artificial global demand of the U.S. dollar. Maintaining this "artificial dollar demand" was vital if the United States were to continue expanding its "welfare and warfare"spending. In a series of meetings, the United States — represented by then U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger — and the Saudi royal family made an agreement. According to the agreement, the United States would offer military protection for Saudi Arabia’s oil fields. The U.S. also agreed to provide the Saudis with weapons, and protection from Israel.

The agreement included:

1) The Saudis must agree to price all of their oil sales in U.S. dollars only. (In other words, the Saudis were to refuse all other currencies, except the U.S. dollar, as payment for their oil exports.)

2) The Saudis would be open to investing their surplus oil proceeds in U.S. debt securities.

By 1975, all of the oil-producing nations of OPEC had agreed to price their oil in dollars and to hold their surplus oil proceeds in U.S. government debt securities in exchange for the generous offers by the U.S.

The USA dollar today is the world's reserve currency, used in financial transactions all over the globe as a benchmark and asset, not because the USA is such a productive nation but because the ability to buy oil was limited to dollars. So if you needed oil, you needed dollars. THAT made the dollar a necessity everywhere. But it was a necessity created by agreement-a cartel, if you will (I think it was called OPEC). Everything went swimmingly as long as the actual dollar value was sound. But once the economy of the USA started to soften, the oil producers started looking for a way out. Of course, once the petrodollar was broken, all of those reserves in other nations become worht less and less, so you COULD have a kind of panic run, as people try to be the first out of the dollar. Wow, what would Saudi Arabia DO? They have most of their money tied up in US Treasuries.

Iraq was the first to write a deal in non-dollars. It was set to be inked as soon as Hans Blix certified that Iraq was in compliance with the WMD mandate. But the sooner the UN inspection team came to a finding, the more hysteric the Bush admin's warning became: Al Qaida! Smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud! East, west, south and north somewhat of Baghdad!

So the UN Inpectors were forced out of Iraq by our bombs, a few months short of
their goal.

However, altho the USA invasion of Iraq scotched the Iraq-France oil for a currency-basket-and-gold deal and the USA destablization of Libya blunted the Libyan demand of gold-for-oil, the dumping of the dollar is a force which cannot be stopped (militarily, anyway). Iran is selling oil to India for rupees, and to China for Yuan. Russia is selling oil to China for yuan, and selling gas to Europe for Euros. Brazil is accepting Chinese yuan for its massive agricultural output.

At zero percent interest, there is no barrier to keep borrowing from the future since there is no cost. Investment firms have created all kinds of ways to borrow money on assets that don't even exist (such as future bonds), inflating their money supply. But all of this financial go-juice is going to come to a crashing halt if the dollar gets its Wiley E Coyote moment of running off a cliff and then looking down. TO BE CLEAR, THIS ISN'T ABOUT GOVERNMENT OVERSPENDING. It's about hedge funds and the loans that are being made on bets that are being made on future assets.

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Friday, August 16, 2013 8:47 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Thank you, Sig. Sadly, I'm pretty sure you're wasting your time, but I appreciate it anyway. Very adroit analysis.

(But I wish you'd learn to type "skeptic"...Rap's no doubt gonna come back on you on that one...) ;o)

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Friday, August 16, 2013 9:00 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I think I got the typos.

"Very adroit analysis."

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Friday, August 16, 2013 11:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Sig - I'm already a skeptic. What I'm NOT is a sour puss cynic. I know the difference. Do you ?

B-uhhhh, wait. I'm the cynic around here. Sig is actually kind of an optimist, except about global warming, then we switch roles because I still think technology can save us. But I still tend to be WAY more doom and gloom and cynical than anyone else.

Quote:
Being an obdurate ass doesn't make anyone a truth-seeker, it just makes them an obdurate ass. Because the FIRST thing you have to do is question YOUR beliefs (I think I said that before). That means not only NOT defending your beliefs to the last inch of your sanity, it also means keeping an open mind when looking at data.

I don't know what I'm doing... :(

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Friday, August 16, 2013 6:25 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Evidence based reasoning...............isn't that against your religion....
;-)

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

( the part about how there's a lot of talk and name calling, with little impact, seemed to me most very familiar. )

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Friday, August 16, 2013 11:35 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"I'm already a skeptic."

Sorry - plugging your ears and saying "I can't HEAR you" when people present facts doesn't make you a skeptic. It makes you one of those looney-bin cranks the real skeptics are trying to educate.

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Quote:
As evidence of "rape mentality"...
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The term applies.

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Saturday, August 17, 2013 1:14 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"I'm already a skeptic."

Sorry - plugging your ears and saying "I can't HEAR you" when people present facts doesn't make you a skeptic. It makes you one of those looney-bin cranks the real skeptics are trying to educate.

Actually, I do accept facts, just not the tripe you swallow hook-line and sinker, while you blindly follow along w/ what ever the the hell you're sold.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, August 17, 2013 5:28 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"I do accept facts"

You mean opinions, which you can’t seem to distinguish from facts, or find relevant cites for, or discuss rationally in the face of real facts.

They are so consistently laughable we even have a name for them - RapFacts™.

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
And just remember, according to Rappy, the term befitting a women who wants the insurance she pays for to cover medications affecting her reproductive organs is

whore

Quote:
As evidence of "rape mentality"...
Wednesday, July 31, 2013 4:23 PM
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The term applies.

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Saturday, August 17, 2013 5:59 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Thinking about the nations that we have destabilized or invaded, with the exception of Afghanistan they were all secular: Iraq, Syria, Libya, Egypt. Now, they are hotbeds of al Qaida.

And, just as a curiosity, with all of those al Qaida cells running around, why have they never attacked Israel?.

Curious, isn't it? So, what do you make of all this?

Here we have a set of facts.. observations, at least... that although the Administrations of both Bush and Obama claim they want stable, secular democracies in the ME, every nation that we've "intervened" in (except Afghanistan) went from being stable and relatively secular to being a smoking ruin, rife with sectarian division and crawling with al Qaida. (Since Afghanistan was already there, it doesn't count.) And, somehow, with all of the al Qaida cells running around, they manage to attack and hold all of the areas with oil: eastern Libya and northeastern Syria. And, none of them have attacked Israel

So, what's up with that? Mind-blowing ineptitude? Sheer bad luck? The unstoppable force of history? A proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Qatar for the hearts and minds (or at least the territory) of the ME?

I looked into this further. US allies, OPEC partners Qatar and Saudi Arabia, are deeply involved in sending guns and money to the most extreme jihadists (ie al Qaida) in Libya, Syria, and Egypt.

Qatar sends 18 arms shipments to anti-Qadafi rebels in Libya (WSJ)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204002304576627000922764
650.html

It is rumored the the CIA was overseeing the shipment of Qatari arms from Benghazi, Libya to Syria, which is why information about the attack was so squelched.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/cia-gun-running-qatar-libya-syria/5345464

Both Qatar and Saudi Arabia are flying arms into Syria

Quote:
Qatar is the leading arms supplier to insurgents Syria, with 85 plane loads of weapons flown - apparently under CIA auspices and with Turkish oversight - from Doha to Ankara and from there, trucked into Syria and distributed among rebel factions.Saudi Arabia is a distant second with only 37 planeloads and Zagreb, Croatia a close third with 36
military cargo flights as of March 2013.

http://www.tehrantimes.com/component/content/article/52-guests/109911-
persian-gulf-power-play-saudi-arabia-and-the-muslim-brotherhood

And both Qatar and Saudi Arabia are quite openly sending lots of money to Egypt
Qatar's Aid to Egypt Raises Fears on Motives (WSJ)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324031404578480771040838
046.html
Saudi Arabia and UAE prop up Egypt regime with offer of $8bn (Financial Times)
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/7e066bdc-e8a2-11e2-8e9e-00144feabdc0.ht
ml#axzz2cF2s6P60

Who is backing these crazed Islamists with arms and money? Is it possible that we're fighting.... our friends and allies, the Saudis and Qataris? Taking that logic a step farther, are we "fighting" them with one hand--- Homeland Security, massive intrusion in everyone's privacy--- but secretly accommodating their activities with the other?

What does this deal get us, besides a reason to grow our internal security operations and military? Is is still about controlling oil? Or is it that Saudi Arabia and Qatar are now playing the petrodollar card in reverse: threatening to bring the house down around us all, if we don't allow them their territorial ambitions?

Everything I have posted about arms and money shipments is a fact. Al Qaidi is not just a bunch of solitary religious nutcases with wet dreams about spreading the glory of Islam... they are armed with weapons and supplied with money from somewhere.

So, what do YOU make of this- if anything?

Sometimes, in order to discover the truth, you have to let go of a narrative which has captured your mind. The world is awash with data. If you filter out everything except that with which you're already familiar, you'll miss the big picture.

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Saturday, August 17, 2013 6:09 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Yer on a roll, Sig; excellent political analysis, tho' I don't like what it says about US, much less this administration (tho' probably "or all those that preceded it", and yes, that includes Clinton, but maybe? not Carter).

Although I would counter "why not Israel" by saying possibly because Israel is one of, if not THE, most "secured" nation on earth, and might well have squelched things we'll never know about. They wouldn't want foiled plots getting attention, so I have a feeling we'd never even HEAR about anything they foiled, and they're a damn sight better at foiling things than our leaks-like-a-sieve government!. Just a thought...

But as to facts, my observation is that whatever Rap is fed by the right, he believes; how many times have we seen him do an about-face when the right has changed their tune (like "Romney's absolutely gonna win" to "Romney threw the election"). Anything that contradicts that, or that his right-wing sources don't like, can ONLY be "tripe" from the "rabid left-wing media", etc. There is never any "skepticism" involved in any way, shape or form, from what I have seen.

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Saturday, August 17, 2013 6:24 AM