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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Nationalistic xenophobia aside, various systems already do coexist. Out of necessity.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Didn't the Pope hear Bono ? He said that Capitalism has raised more people around the world OUT of poverty than any other economic system.

It's better than charity.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Nationalistic xenophobia aside, various systems already do coexist. Out of necessity.

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Examples?

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:property,

I'm not sure if the Pope has a direct line to Bono. I think its supposed to be god.

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As those people passed through the trade, representing something close to half a billion dollars in property, they spread wealth wherever they went. Much of the capital that funded the traders' speculations had been borrowed from banks and had to be repaid with interest, and all of it had to be moved through commission-taking factorage houses and bills of exchange back and forth between the eastern seaboard and the emerging Southwest.

And the slaves in whose bodies that money congealed as it moved south had to be transported, housed, clothed, fed, and cared for during the one to three months it took to sell them. Some of them were insured in transit, some few others covered by life insurance. Their sales had to be notarized and their sellers taxed. Those hundreds of thousands of people were revenue to the cities and states where they were sold, and profits in the pockets of landlords, provisioners, physicians, and insurance agents long before they were sold. The most recent estimate of the size of this ancillary economy is 13.5 percent of the price per person-tens of millions of dollars over the course of the antebellum period.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:


Co-op groups and various unions exist in a number of capitalist economies. You really need specifics?

Not to mention China has a mix - though I grant they started off with state communism - and there are many mixed economies in European nations.

There is not one choice or one option for anyone. Nor should there be. If monopolies in business are bad, then logically a lack of competing options for economies is also bad.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Are you saying TRADE is what's evil here and what the pope is arguing against?

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No. Try this instead as an explanation of the Pope's motive:

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
People should be able to choose their economic preferences, and there should be multiple choices with overlap. Because if there's only one system, that forces people to play by those rules.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Well yeah.

So I'm not really sure what you're arguing now. You asked me for examples of different economic systems and organization schemes existing, then say all my examples are actually capitalist. They exist in a global capitalist system, but it doesn't change that they are distict concepts from capitalism coexisting with it. All I'm saying is multiple economic systems with redundancies, sans xenophobia, is a good idea, and we can build on the basis of what we already have.

But in any case, you answered your own question. Different economic systems have to exist for them to be able to trade with each other. And I don't see one global currency just yet, however overrated the American dollar might be.

Are you saying TRADE is what's evil here and what the pope is arguing against? I'll give you that the US has a terrible history of supporting oppressive brutal dictatorships. There are also times we impose economic sanctions on some of them. I'm under no illusion those decisions about WHICH dictator to stop supporting are probably made for economic reasons more than anything moral, but surely that has to count for something.

And I also happen to think it's a far better approach than war and country building.

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