So what's shut down for you? by Geezer

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
but strangely still has enough staff to give parking tickets to folks who park in them.

The spice must flow.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 5, 2013 10:57 PM

America loves a winner!

BYTE - I already addressed all that early on, and made CLEAR distinction between museums and the the likes of Yellostone and open monuments like the WW 2 Memorial. Just stop it.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, October 5, 2013 11:06 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Barricades were meant to be circumvented.

Huh?

Umm.... then why waste time, $ and effort putting them there in the first place ?

Oh, I know. Great photo op for our dear leader.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 8:38 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

And now a new "interpretation" of the law allows the Defense Department to bring back all its employees, and the House just voted unanimously to pay furloughed Federal workers.

Since they're gonna pay them, why not put them back to work?

It's all just political theater, from both sides.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 9:17 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

"The spice must flow" --hee, hee, hee, got it.

"It's all just political theater, from both sides" --of course it is, now it's happened! To expect otherwise would be to expect the Dems to be naive idiots, because it's been "political theater" since the Repubs STARTED it!

"the House just voted unanimously to pay furloughed Federal workers" --oh, thank goodness. I can't imagine suddenly being told "go home, we're not going to pay you for a while, dunno how long"...those poor families!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 9:38 AM

America loves a winner!

C'mon Niki, you know the Left LOVES the theatre more than those on the Right.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 10:52 AM

America loves a winner!

*UPDATED* THE LIST: UNNECESSARILY SHUT DOWN BY OBAMA TO INFLICT PUBLIC PAIN

While our president still enjoys his essential employees and locations: the White House chefs, Camp David, and a military golf course, there doesn't seem to be any question that in mercenary pursuit of a political win, this White House is determined to unreasonably punish as many everyday people as possible. And this includes children sick with cancer. That might sound like hyperbole, but it is not.

1. Treatments for Children Suffering From Cancer - The GOP have agreed to a compromise by funding part of the government, including the National Institutes of Health, which offers children with cancer last-chance experimental treatment. Obama has threatened to veto this funding.

2. The World War II Memorial - The WWII memorial on the DC Mall is a 24/7 open-air memorial that is not regularly staffed. Although the White House must have known that WWII veterans in their eighties and nineties had already booked flights to visit this memorial, the White House still found the resources to spitefully barricade the attraction.
The Republican National Committee has offered to cover any costs required to keep the memorial open. The White House refused. Moreover, like the NIH, the GOP will pass a compromise bill that would fund America's national parks. Obama has threatened to veto that bill.

3. Furloughed Military Chaplains Not Allowed to Work for Free - Furloughed military chaplains willing to celebrate Mass and baptisms for free have been told they will be punished for doing so.

4. Business Stops In Florida Keys - Although the GOP have agreed to compromise in the ongoing budget stalemate and fund the parks, Obama has threatened to veto that funding. As a result, small businesses, hunters, and commercial fisherman can't practice their trade. While the feds have deemed the personnel necessary to keep this area open "non-essential," the "enforcement officers" to ensure no business is done are "essential."

5. Obama Blacks Out Sports, Entertainment Programming to Overseas Troops - The American Forces Network (AFN) that provides American sports and entertainment programming to our troops stationed abroad, has been shut down. For some reason, though, AFN News will still broadcast news, just not any of the popular and fun stuff.

Camp David is essential, but popular programming for heroes overseas is non-essential.

6. Obama Closes D-Day Memorial - The GOP have offered to compromise and fund the National Parks. Obama has said he will veto this compromise legislation. As a result, along with 24 other military cemeteries, the D-Day memorial in Normandy has been barricaded.
7. Obama Tries to Close Privately-Funded Mt. Vernon - Although George Washington's Mt. Vernon estate is privately funded, the feds blocked visitors from entering the parking area because the Park Service maintains the lot. Apparently, the New Media publicity resulted in the feds backing down.

8. Obama Closes Over 100 Privately-Managed Parks That Cost No Money to Run - The U.S. Treasury actually makes money from the rent paid by a private company that "employs about 400-500 camp workers and managers across about a dozen states." No federal money is used to operate these parks. No federal employees are used to staff these parks. Taxpayers make a profit from these parks. Still, Obama had them closed and as a result 400-500 employees and a private business are taking it in the neck.

9. Obama Closes Self-Sustaining Colonial Farm It Hasn’t Supported Since 1980 - "For the first time in 40 years, the National Park Service (NPS) has finally succeeded in closing the Farm down to the public. In previous budget dramas, the Farm has always been exempted since the NPS provides no staff or resources to operate the Farm.”

10. Obama Tries to Close State-Run Parks in Wisconsin - "The park service ordered state officials to close the northern unit of the Kettle Moraine, Devil's Lake, and Interstate state parks and the state-owned portion of the Horicon Marsh, but state authorities rebuffed the request because the lion's share of the funding came from state, not federal coffers."

11. Obama Closes Vietnam Memorial - The GOP have passed compromise legislation that would fund national memorials and parks, and open them to the public. Obama threatened a veto. Apparently, the "essential" government employees are those erecting barricades, not those who could keep the memorial open.

12. Obama Closes Privately-Owned Hotel, Police Block Parking Lot - "The operator of a 51-room inn located on U.S. government-owned land in North Carolina abandoned his defiant stance on Thursday to keep the property open despite being ordered to close as part of the federal government shutdown."
October is this inn's prime season. The GOP have offered compromise funding opening the parks. Obama said he will veto that compromise.

State troopers blocked customers from entering the inn's parking lot.

13. Park Service Ranger: 'We've Been Told to Make Life As Difficult For People As We Can' - “It’s a cheap way to deal with the situation,” an angry Park Service ranger in Washington says of the harassment. “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

14. Obama Forces Residents Out of Private Homes - "The government shutdown is being felt close to home for some locals. They say they're being forced out of private homes on Lake Mead because they sit on federal land."

The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama has threatened a veto.

15. Acadia Park In Maine Shut Down - '"We’ve been training for two years at CrossFit for this hike — no kidding,” Hart said. She added that the shutdown should be as inconvenient for the Washington politicians who caused it as it is for average citizens.'
The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama said he will veto.

16. Historic Restaurant Open During Last Shutdown Forced to Close - "An iconic Philadelphia restaurant has been forced to close its doors and turn away booked parties because of the government shutdown. …
"Restaurant public relations director Molly Yun said they were notified there was a possibility a closure might happen, but they were allowed to remain open during the last government shutdown 17 years ago."
The restaurant is part of the federal park system, which the GOP have agreed to fund. Obama said he will veto the funding.

17. Obama Shuts Down a Road Tha Goes Through CO Park: "The Forest Service announcement, in turn, led the Pitkin County commissioners to order that Maroon Creek Road be shut down at the height of the colorful leaf-changing season. Ahead of what is to be one of the busiest weekends of the fall, the road is to be closed to vehicles at T-Lazy-7 Ranch, pending a resolution to the government shutdown."
The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama said he will veto that compromise funding.

18. Residents Plan Protest of Cape Hatteras Closing - "Businesses and residents on the Outer Banks have planned a peaceful protest of the closure of Hatteras Island's beaches due to the government shut down.
"The U.S. House Wednesday passed a measure to reopen national parks and monuments. It will now go to the U.S. Senate."
In the unlikely event the Democrat Senate passes the bill, Obama has threatened a veto of any compromise legislation opening the parks.

19. Obama Blocks People From LOOKING at Mt. Rushmore - "Blocking access to trails and programs at South Dakota’s most popular attraction was one thing, but state officials didn’t expect Congress’ budget stalemate to shut down a view of Mount Rushmore.
"The National Park Service placed cones along highway viewing areas outside Mount Rushmore this week, barring visitors from pulling over and taking pictures of the famed monument.
The cones first went up Oct. 1, said Dusty Johnson, Gov. Dennis Daugaard’s chief of staff. The state asked that they be taken down, and federal officials did so with some of them. The state was told the cones were a safety precaution to help channel cars into viewing areas rather than to bar their entrance."

20. Crucial USDA Websites Taken Down - "The U.S. Department of Agriculture has turned off its entire website in response to the government shutdown, leaving farmers, reporters and others with no way to access any of the agency's information online. …
"USDA's total website shutdown goes far beyond the response of other federal agencies, and seems to be part of an effort to make people feel the effects of the shutdown. Thursday morning calls to USDA's press office seeking an explanation were not answered."
This website is down and yet the ObamaCare and White House websites are up.

21. St. Louis Gateway Arch Closed - The GOP have agreed to compromise legislation funding the parks. Obama has threatened a veto.

22. Park Shutdown Bounces Rowers from Potomac - "The ripple effect of a government shutdown has pushed rowers from the Potomac River.
"Multiple high schools rent space at the Thompson Boat Center in Georgetown. But like other places controlled by the National Park Service, it closed Tuesday morning."
The GOP have agreed to compromise funding opening the parks. Obama has threatened a veto.

23. Thompson Boat Center Closed In DC - The GOP have agreed to fund the parks. Obama said he will veto.

24. Obama Closes Military Commissary - "Military members, veterans and families who shop at local tax-free store are shocked to discover the store's doors locked; no progress to end stalemate in Washington."
While the government has deemed the White House chefs "essential," working class military personnel have lost their tax-free store privileges.
Military personnel and their families tell me that they have never lost these privileges in previous shutdowns.

25. Arizona Offers to Fund Grand Canyon, Obama Says 'Drop Dead' - "Obama has ordered the Grand Canyon to stay closed, even after the state of Arizona and local businesses have offered to cover the costs necessary to keep it open. In other words, the shutdown isn’t about the money — it’s about hurting the American people just because he can."

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/list-obama-closures
-for-shutdown

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 12:46 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:

It's all just political theater, from both sides.

Agreed. It's disgusting.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 1:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/list-obama-closures
-for-shutdown

LOL, an ultra right wing hate fest site? Really? Probably 10% of what's listed is even partially true.

If the big-hearted, warm & fuzzy Repubs are so pro-people, let them turn the government back on. This "We'll shut everything down! Oh, but we'll WORK to keep the good stuff open for the kids..." bullshit is all games to make Obama look bad. And that's the only real goal of the shutdown- to get a Republican President next time. And the Repubs will sacrifice at any altar necessary to achieve that goal. If the American public is as stupid as they calculate it is, this plan will work. If not, the Repubs better find work in the private sector pretty fast.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 1:18 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/10/05/list-obama-closures
-for-shutdown

LOL, an ultra right wing hate fest site? Really? Probably 10% of what's listed is even partially true.

Probably ?

Name one. Go for it, model boy.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 1:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Name one. Go for it, model boy.

Name one what? Hate fest site? Can you use the language a little more precisely?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 1:41 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Probably 10% of what's listed is even partially true.

What do YOU think from what was posted from Breitbart is NOT true.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 1:46 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Actually, NONE of it is true. How in hell Rap expects us to even READ something from BREITBART is amusing, given all the things he calls "left-wing biased" (like virtually everything BUT Breitbart, FauxNews, etc.). But I'll take the bait:

#1: "The GOP have agreed"--in other words, the Democrats already proposed it, and the GOP "agreed".

#2: We've done the WW II Memorial to death already.

#3: The truth:

Quote:
The House of Representatives was nearly unanimous in a Saturday vote that mandated military installations around the country continue to provide religious services during the government shutdown.

The measure, which needed a two-thirds majority of support in the House, passed by a vote of 400-1. The measure was not a spending measure and only expressed that Congress did not want the Department of Defense to suspend religious programs during the shutdown.

Despite the fact that certain service members were working during the shutdown, the Defense Department decided to furlough civilian and contract workers because the department lacked an appropriations bill. This move included some religious leaders. http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/10/05/house-passes-measure-a
imed-at-bringing-military-chaplains-back-to-work/

So what is the bullshit Breitbart is selling?

#4: Is part of the GOP game called "piecemeal funding", about which:

Quote:
The President and the Senate have been clear that they won’t accept this kind of game-playing, and if these bills were to come to the president’s desk he would veto them, White House spokeswoman Amy Brundage said in a statement, responding to the plans under consideration by House Republicans.

"These piecemeal efforts are not serious, and they are no way to run a government," she said. "If House Republicans are legitimately concerned about the impacts of a shutdown -- which extend across government from our small businesses to women, children and seniors -- they should do their job and pass a clean CR to reopen the government." http://www.politico.com/politico44/2013/10/white-house-obama-would-vet
o-piecemeal-funding-bills-174032.html

In other words, they're trying to fund things one at a time, FOR VISIBILITY, and Obama AND THE SENATE are not willing to play that game. Pure gamesmanship. If they really gave a shit about "small businesses, hunters, and commercial fisherman", not to mention the millions of others who are being affected, obviously they'd pass a budget.

Looking down the list, that covers just about all of Breitbart's ridiculous article, why bother going on? "Obama closes...", "Obama shuts down...", it's laughable...it even REPEATS specific phrases more than once, just to get people who believe the bullshit even more riled up.

I'm not going to take the time to look up who is actually in charge of shutting down what, tho' I thank Byte for knowing one of the answers. The simple fact is that the PARK SERVICE shuts down the parks, other AGENCIES shut down what's their responsibility, and federal employees HAD to be furloughed, that's the LAW, Obama didn't "shut down" a single thing. They'll keep screaming it's all about him, of course they will, EVERYTHING they hate is always Obama's personal, individual "fault", but that doesn't make it so.

The fact that he and the Senate mind you aren't willing to play the game...pass little individual bills to open this or that which pisses somebody off...is good p.r. on their part and plays in the media, but completely ignores the reality of the situation.

They're doing a great job of the p.r., tho', which is what it's all been about FROM THE BEGINNING! Get real; Rap needs to find SOME kind of ACTUAL source, not idiocy like Infowars or Breitbart, to put forth facts if he wants to be taken seriously. Which of course he doesn't; he just wants to slather it out there in the hope that there are people as blindly partisan and gullible as himself who will eat it up.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 1:48 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

What these Tea Party assholes are doing, on our tab, is sitting there in Congress deciding "Hey, let's write a bill to fund this...or that", things that have high visibility, sound good, or THEY like, and let the rest of the country go to hell. Yeah, really fiscally responsible. You betcha!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 1:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
What do YOU think from what was posted from Breitbart is NOT true.

Obama does not sit around deciding who to say "Drop dead" to, it's not his job to negotiate hundreds of deals to keep individual areas open, it's his job to try and get Republicans to stop playing schoolyard bully with people's LIVES. While individual parts of details are correct, the author's many conclusions are inaccurate at best.

You can't throw a gas grenade into a building and then whine that no one's helping you bring some gas masks in for the women & children- that's beyond stupid. The Repubs started this for this very reason and no other. And they're counting, absolutely COUNTING on the stupidity of the American people in this end game.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 1:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

In other words, they're trying to fund things one at a time, FOR VISIBILITY, and Obama AND THE SENATE are not willing to play that game.

Precisely. You can articulate the situation so much better than I, Niki.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:01 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
What do YOU think from what was posted from Breitbart is NOT true.
Obama does not sit around deciding who to say "Drop dead" to, it's not his job to negotiate hundreds of deals to keep individual areas open, it's his job to try and get Republicans to stop playing schoolyard bully with people's LIVES. While individual parts of details are correct, the author's many conclusions are inaccurate at best.

You can't throw a gas grenade into a building and then whine that no one's helping you bring some gas masks in for the women & children- that's beyond stupid. The Repubs started this for this very reason and no other. And they're counting, absolutely COUNTING on the stupidity of the American people in this end game.

Your OPINION only.

You've addressed nothing specifically listed by the Breitbart piece, have you ? Just prattled off YOUR opinion on what their opinion is, but the facts aren't in dispute. The closings are as reported.

The 10% you claim is probably true is more like 90%.

And he doesn't HAVE to go down a list of hundreds of parks and scheme how to deal with each one. He just waves his hand and says ' close 'em all ', and then his order goes out. Takes 2 seconds, if that long.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:05 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

In other words, they're trying to fund things one at a time, FOR VISIBILITY, and Obama AND THE SENATE are not willing to play that game.
Precisely. You can articulate the situation so much better than I, Niki.

Wrong. They're trying to fund things individually for the good of the nation, for the PEOPLE. It's Obama and the Left who have stated that they want to cause as much pain as possible.

Just like Harry Reid said, when asked if he'd help kids dying of cancer...

" Why would we want to do that ? "

ABC, NBC Ignore Harry Reid’s “Why Would We Want To Do That?” Cancer and Kids Comment

http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/04/abc-nbc-ignore-harry-reids-why-woul
d-we-want-to-do-that-cancer-and-kids-comment/

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The closings are as reported.

25 closing that are true, 25 reasons that are false. I'll give you a 50%.
Happy?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[Wrong. They're trying to fund things individually for the good of the nation, for the PEOPLE.

Once again 'cause you seemed to have missed it, you can't throw a gas grenade into a building and then whine that no one's helping you bring some gas masks in for the women & children- that's beyond stupid.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:12 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The closings are as reported.

25 closing that are true, 25 reasons that are false. I'll give you a 50%.
Happy?

No. Not happy.

But happier.

Still not sure how you only credit BR for being 1/2 right. Closures ultimately come form the WH. That's not a matter for debate. Parks Service is under OMB,which is under the Executive branch. Obama is at the top of the Executive Branch.

De-staffing open air monuments ? Fine go ahead. Putting up barricades ? That's entirely an overt decision made to inflict pain and put on a visible display, for the public. THAT comes from Barry's direction.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:16 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[Wrong. They're trying to fund things individually for the good of the nation, for the PEOPLE.
Once again 'cause you seemed to have missed it, you can't throw a gas grenade into a building and then whine that no one's helping you bring some gas masks in for the women & children- that's beyond stupid.

Actually, you can. If you want to adhere to that false, lame analogy. Better to offer some help than to let them die.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:26 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Regarding the open-air monuments: Is it the President's responsibility to open or "close" said monuments? Isn't that the province of Congress? or am I mistaken?

By the way, did the House now also takeover, as part of the Shutdown, Fingerpointing? I just want to know, for future reference.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
It's a free standing, open air monument. It's not a " business". We're not talking about a museum, or even a park, which has a turnstile or doors to lock up at night. It's open, 24/7.

Open air monuments charge admission fees and are therefore a business, and open air businesses are still subject to the same risks and limitations as all other businesses.

Unless instead of closing the monument, you would have preferred it to remain open and get graffiti within 24 hours because no one is on the payroll to patrol it. I hear the punks on the national mall like green.

You have to make sure other people don't wreck the joint. If you can't pay anyone to make sure of that, you close the business to protect the stuff.

They're just lucky they got volunteers who stepped up to protect the monument so it could stay open.

Frankly, I don't care one way or another. All these marble pats on the back in the capital at the expense of tax payers kinda stick in my craw. But I figured maybe YOU did seeing as you're raising a fuss about it.

Previous shutdowns for example like 1995 were technically only partial shutdowns, as some of the departments had received funding prior to very similar disagreements about funding of medicare and education between Republican congress wanting to slow spending and a Democratic president with social welfare programs. There was almost NO funding approved this year before October 1st, therefore the shutdown was more extensive.

Lastly, the determination of which employees are "nonessential" is done by the Office of Management and Budget, which is run by Sylvia Mathews Burwell, who is on Obama's cabinet, but I really doubt that Obama looked twice at whatever she recommended before signing it. List of designated nonessential employees from every county and regional diversion of government offices in every state, sounds like thrilling reading material.

You can't paint Obama as being inept but then also have him be some kind of manipulative mastermind giggling over park closures for political spin.

I agree Obama's inept, I disagree that he closed the parks for political points. Since when has he ever been that savvy?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

De-staffing open air monuments ? Fine go ahead. Putting up barricades ? That's entirely an overt decision made to inflict pain and put on a visible display, for the public. THAT comes from Barry's direction.

In the brief Columbus Day shutdown of 1990, George H.W. Bush shut down Washington's monuments and museums, too.
http://theweek.com/article/index/250498/is-it-really-necessary-to-shut
-down-all-the-monuments-in-washington

Turns out it's got precedent. Plus the usual legal bs- some one falls & no government people there to assist & it's sue city.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Better to offer some help than to let them die.

The point sir is that the grenade should not have been thrown in the first place.;)

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:40 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Hey Niki,

It seems to me that the House (actually those that brought this foolishness about) are caving in bit by bit as the political realities and consequences of the Shutdown emerge.

People must realize that the truth eventually will come out. Every time someone says that the president is responsible, the House puts forth a CR to fund that particular aspect of the government that's been affected. That tells you right there where the true responsibility lies. If the president were truly responsible, wouldn't he continue the Lockout?

The House Republicans are looking sillier and sillier with each passing day.
Boehner says he's outraged at the administration claiming "winning" in this stalemate (and rightfully so, that was a stupid comment to make), but so to is Rand Paul suggesting to McConnell that they are "winning." It is one-upmanship at it's ugliest.

Meanwhile real people suffer. Well, I say watch out in the fall elections, gerrymandering or no, people are fed up.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Byte has an excellent grasp of the situation, I'm impressed! And she's right, on virtually every point. Rap can deny it, but yes, the government would be legally liable, and the Park Rangers ARE there voluntarily, doing their jobs without pay, and the fact that there's graffiti when people are on duty has nothing to do with how much MORE there would be if nobody were around. Throwing a hissy fit and saying things aren't true doesn't make it so; what Byte elucidated is exactly how it is.

America and our economy HAS been hurt by the sequestration, and by this current mess, and a LOT of individual people are suffering--especially if they don't get back pay after this is all over (which thought horrifies me).

We don't hear about it because bad news is bad for the market and the media/government don't want us paying a lot of attention, but it's there, it's been there and it's bad:

"GOLDMAN SACHS: The Economic Damage From The Sequester Is Becoming More Clear, And It Could Get Worse", http://www.businessinsider.com/sequester-finally-hurting-2013-9#ixzz2g
tZyBO3j

"Sequestration Will Prevent Creation Of Up To 1.6 Million Jobs In Next Year, CBO Concludes", http://www.chicagodefender.com/index.php/business/21605-seuestration-1
-6-million-jobs-next-year-cbo

"Yes, the Sequester Is Affecting the Job Market", http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/yes-the-sequester-is-affe
cting-the-job-market/?_r=0

"New FBI Director James B. Comey stunned by impact of sequestration on agents in the field", http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-09-27/world/42459536_1_comey-b
udget-cuts-fbi-agents-association

Just because it's not "in your face" every day doesn't mean it's not happening; it is and this is making it worse. Which, unfortunately, is just jim dandy with the right, because they don't WANT the country to recover (at least until they're in power), it makes Obama/Dems look good; anyone who hasn't figured that out hasn't been paying attention. Remember how very, very long it took me to finally accept that the Republicans were quite happy to do thing which would make the country WORSE in hopes it would put them in power. Even I had to finally acknowledge the truth. But as long as there's Obama to blame, our righties will do as they're told and blame him.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:44 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

This is getting stupid. OBAMA DIDN'T SHUT DOWN ANYTHING. CONGRESS DIDN'T PASS A BUDGET, that's what LEGALLY caused the shutdown. Here's a list of what's shut down and who's responsible for it, Obama didn't say "shut it down", the LAW did. That is the result of refusing to pass a budget, pure and simple; the law goes into effect. How any times do we have to say it?

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/politics/government-shutdown-im
pact/

Just a sample, running down the list:

"The independent agency's 30 employees are prohibited from working during a shutdown"

"Within one hour of learning about a shutdown, the director of the Office of Administration sends an e-mail advisory to all the staff"

"processing of requests for new licenses, label approval and manufacture of nonbeverage products ceases"

"All sites worldwide are closed to the public"

"No federal employees can investigate industrial chemical spills/accidents that happen during the shutdown. Current investigations are frozen"

"All employees will continue to work until funds are exhausted"

"During a shutdown, all FCC activities other than those immediately necessary for the protection of life or property must cease."

"All Commission activities must completely shut down by 12:00 p.m. ET Tuesday"

"All employees shall be furloughed except those performing work to address a threat to human life or property; those involved in the orderly shutdown of agency operations; and those otherwise allowed by operation of law. "

"(IRS) All the following cease in a shutdown: All audit functions; examination of returns and processing of nonelectronic tax returns that do not include remittances; nonautomated collections; legal counsel; taxpayer services such as responding to taxpayer questions (call sites); information systems functions (except as necessary to prevent loss of data in process); all planning, research, and training and development activities."

and on and on. Obama has NOTHING to do with it, it's the LAW. That Rap refuses to acknowledge that doesn't make it not so, he's just going to go right on blathering idiocy as long as people keep trying to get through to him.

To FORCE all this TO SHUT DOWN BY LAW (and the list is loooong!) because they DEMAND that Obamacare be "delayed" (which is bullshit and we know it), despite the fact that the ACA IS the law, not passing a budget won't kill it, and it has been adjudicated so by the Supreme Court, then get together and play childish games about passing little individual bills to open this or that thing back up individually AND lie blatantly by saying "OBAMA shut down...", is insane, period.

Enough already.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:45 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:

Regarding the open-air monuments: Is it the President's responsibility to open or "close" said monuments? Isn't that the province of Congress? or am I mistaken?

It's the President's call. Congress has no say in the matter.

This has been discussed, and explained, several times already.

Quote:

By the way, did the House now also takeover, as part of the Shutdown, Fingerpointing? I just want to know, for future reference.

SGG

Fingerpointing was never the property of either side exclusively. Best you'll get from anyone is that it's 50/50. I happen to think the Left engages in far more than 50%, but at this point, what difference does it make ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:47 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Better to offer some help than to let them die.
The point sir is that the grenade should not have been thrown in the first place.;)

Again, false analogy from the start, so there's no real point of engaging in this further.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:58 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Absolutely, if Rap's only excuse for posting is to continue lying and denying the truth, time for him to quit (long past, actually...). And oh, how I wish he would, because I'll keep putting forth the FACTS about this as long as he keeps spewing lies. Here are the plain, simple facts:

Congress has one key duty in the Constitution -- pass spending bills that fund the government. If it doesn't, most functions of government -- from funding agencies to paying out small business loans and processing passport requests -- grind to a halt. The government does not have the legal authority to spend money. Under a federal law known as the Anti-Deficiency Act, it can be a felony to spend taxpayer money without an appropriation from Congress (which is why they keep trying to pass little tiny bills to fund one thing at a time).

All that has been explained again and again, WITH facts, figures, sites and sources. Obama does not shut down the government: The LAW does. Period.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 2:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Again, false analogy from the start, so there's

No, really, you can stop now.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 3:04 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

Absolutely, if Rap's only excuse for posting is to continue lying and denying the truth, time for him to quit (long past, actually...).

Where am I lying ? Chris couldn't make the case. Can YOU ?

Quote:
And oh, how I wish he would, because I'll keep putting forth the FACTS about this as long as he keeps spewing lies. Here are the plain, simple facts:

Congress has one key duty in the Constitution -- pass spending bills that fund the government. If it doesn't, most functions of government -- from funding agencies to paying out small business loans and processing passport requests -- grind to a halt. The government does not have the legal authority to spend money. Under a federal law known as the Anti-Deficiency Act, it can be a felony to spend taxpayer money without an appropriation from Congress (which is why they keep trying to pass little tiny bills to fund one thing at a time).

All that has been explained again and again, WITH facts, figures, sites and sources. Obama does not shut down the government: The LAW does. Period.

Ahh. I see you've tried to shift the discussion to who has shut down the parks to Congress's responsibility. Clever girl.

Congress HAS passed bills to fund the govt. The Senate and Obama refuse to sign them into law.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 3:38 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

"Congress"--actually a small group of Republicans in Congress--has passed budget after budget, each one DEFUNDING or killing the ACA. Since it is the law of the land, DEMANDING its defunding be part of a budget is wrong. This same group has consistently REFUSED to vote for any budget that DOES NOT defund the ACA. Neither the Senate nor Obama can accept a budget which defunds the ACA, which is how that small group of "representatives" (I use the term advisedly) could ensure that any budget they vote "yes" on would never pass. Simple as that.

Why doesn't he quit while he's behind? The entire article from Breitbart that he put up is a blatant lie; Obama has not shut down ANYTHING, I've detailed that with facts and links repeatedly...it's THE LAW which shut down the government, period. Obama neither wrote the law nor enforces it. And it is the SENATE which also refuses to play the game of "let's fund one thing at a time". So just writing "Obama shut down..." is a LIE, pure and simple.

One can only present facts so many times, then there's little left to do but

http://www.ips-dc.org/files/6454/shutdown-enemy-cartoon.JPG

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 3:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Congress HAS passed bills to fund the govt. The Senate and Obama refuse to sign them into law.

Clever boy. You bypass the main problem & focus on what makes Obama look bad. Good puppet.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:18 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

"Where am I lying?:

"Obama Blacks Out Sports" - Lie. When the government shuts down, personnel at AFN’s broadcast center faced MANDATORY reductions, BY LAW. They jiggled things and: "AFN went mostly dark after the shutdown, according to a Friday report from the Associated Press, but Sunday's slate of NFL games also comes with good news.

Via AFN's Facebook page: "Sportsfans, we are going to be able to run two NFL games today!!! Broncos vs Cowboys will start at 10pm CET 06OCT/5am JKT 07OCT. The Texans vs 49ers will start at 2am CET 07OCT/ 9am JKT 07OCT. Both games will air on AFN|news." http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24038470/despite-shutdown
-american-forces-network-to-air-two-nfl-games

Nothing to do with "Obama".

"Obama Shuts Down a Road Tha (sic) Goes Through CO Park": "The Forest Service announcement, in turn, led the Pitkin County commissioners to order that Maroon Creek Road be shut down" -- the lie is RIGHT THERE IN THE TEXT: The FOREST SERVICE announced the shutdown, so the COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ordered that the road be closed.

"Obama Blocks People From LOOKING at Mt. Rushmore" --Again, the lie is right there in the text: "The National Park Service placed cones along highway viewing areas". The NATIONAL PARK SERVICE, not Obama.

So why should I go through it item by item, when they're all such a blatant, bald-faced lies?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:30 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Congress HAS passed bills to fund the govt. The Senate...

RAPPY: Ah, I see where your fundamental lack of facts comes into play. You DO realize, rappy, that the Senate is part of Congress???

House + Senate = Congress.

So, "Congress" has NOT passed bills to fund the government. The Senate, which is ALSO part of the legislature and which represents the individual states in a different way, disagrees with the House. I know you think that the Senate is illegitimate... in fact, I know you think that ANYONE who disagrees with you is illegitimate... I know you want to do away with representation whenever the people disagree with you but, really... Jeezus, please don't argue about the defintion of "congress", OK? Otherwise this going to be another one of those threads where you wind up getting your ass handed to over such things as the definition of "supersede".

Wow, screw your head back onto your shoulders, willya?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:38 PM

America loves a winner!

The House has passed spending bills then. The SENATE refuses to do the same.
The SENATE refuses to even meet w/ the House to negotiate.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:46 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

WW2 vets need to get their asses to the Mexican border pronto

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:46 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh, so "the Congress" has NOT passed...?

So, "Obama" DIDN'T shut down the government?

So, YOU WERE WRONG?

Well, that's a monumental step in the right direction!

So, will you please then NOT refer to that same mistake over and over again, like you do with WMD?

Yanno what? The Senate is only doing what they were elected to do. Don't like it? Go argue with the Constitution. And when you find yourself on the very wrong end of an argument, maybe the best response is to STFU.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 4:49 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Obama Admin Closes Part Of Ocean Due To Govt Shutdown to “inflict the maximum public pain”
http://benswann.com/obama-admin-closes-part-of-ocean-due-to-govt-shutd
own/

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 5:32 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:

This is who you pay your IRS income taxes to since the British royal family are owners of the private foreign "Federal" Reserve Bank that counterfeits all so-called "US dollars" out of thin air then loans them at $1-billion/day interest to the US Govt.

Quote:
ZOG.
Zionist Occupied Government.
-Marrion-Webster Dictionary

In Firefly the Alliance merged the US flag with the flag of Communist China

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 5:57 PM

America loves a winner!

I said 'congress' when I shoud have stated ' the house '.

That's all.

The remainder of my position is still correct.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 6:54 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So, whose fault is the shutdown NOW? It lies with "Congress", right? Obama doesn't even come into it, because it is CONGRESS' responsibility to come up with budget.

Yanno, Like I said in the other thread: Why don't the repubs OWN this? Isn't this what they want... to shut things down?

SAY IT LOUD AND SAY IT PROUD: I SHUT DOWN GUBMINT!

Stop being such wusses!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 7:08 PM

America loves a winner!

The GOP just want to cut spending and save the country from O-care.

Obama is perfectly fine w/ destroying the country, no matter what.

Slowly, by implementing O-care, or quickly by keeping the govt shut down.

He's a born and raised radical. It's who he is.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 7:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The GOP just want to cut spending and save the country from O-care.

Oh, okay, and they get to do this legally or illegally, by any means necessary, right? Like how Reagan funded the Contras... how phantom WMD was used to start a war that overextended us... how torture can be reassigned names so we can say it's NOT torture...right?
We are a nation of law.
Bullfuckingshit.

Law of the jungle, baby.LOL.
If you can get away with it, it must be right.

I'll leave it to anyone silly enough to keep trying to get ANYTHING through Rap's thick skill to take it from here. -Niki 2013

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, October 6, 2013 8:04 PM