REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The glitch is back

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Saturday, October 26, 2013 22:31
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Saturday, October 26, 2013 9:46 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
...and, again, why not work to improve the ACA rather than just try to go back to the bad status quo?



Because fixing it will cost a lot more, and lead to a lot more problems with coverage, than having had it done right in the first place.

You'd think that the folks who knew (and have admitted they knew) there would be problems - whether in the co-ops, the healthcare.gov site, the employer mandate, or other portions of the ACA not yet enacted - would have raised some red flags, rather than letting all these problems go live.

You've cited the problems with Medicare part D, which the folks working on the ACA should have known. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it" seems an appropriate quote.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, October 26, 2013 12:17 PM

STORYMARK


I doubt any rational person would deny it should have been made better the first time, but that's usually true of anything.

And doing it right the first time is pretty much impossible when one party is dedicated to doing anything they can to make sure it doesn't happen at all.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Saturday, October 26, 2013 2:01 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


"doing it right the first time is pretty much impossible when one party is dedicated to doing anything they can to make sure it doesn't happen at all."

If governments "learned from history", we wouldn't have had Iraq, or even Vietnam, or Halliburton, abu ghraib, or a million other things. We wouldn't still be having millions wasted on bakshish in Afghanistan, or hey, how about rape in the military?

This thread is an example of why people consider Geezer a right winger. "Because fixing it will cost a lot more, and lead to a lot more problems with coverage, than having had it done right in the first place." This seems to be saying, yet again as from every right winger: "Rather than fix it, KILL IT!", and we're still waiting to hear any VIABLE alternative from the right which would ACTUALLY address the exhorbitant cost of healthcare in this country, or the millions of people who couldn't get insurance, got kicked off, exceeded their annual limits, etc., etc. before the ACA.


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Saturday, October 26, 2013 2:36 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Niki2:
This thread is an example of why people consider Geezer a right winger. "Because fixing it will cost a lot more, and lead to a lot more problems with coverage, than having had it done right in the first place."



When have you heard me say "Kill the ACA"?

I've said it was poorly planned and executed, difficult to implement, a cash cow for insurance companies and the medical industry - but never that it should be killed.

However, it might have better focused on limited goals, like insurance for the uninsured and coverage for pre-existing conditions, rather than trying to be all things to all people.

Just because I don't fervently defend what is pretty obviously a flawed product of political wheeling and dealing and undue influence by the insurance and medical lobbies doesn't mean I don't think that health care should be addressed. I just think a much better job could have been done.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, October 26, 2013 2:45 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


I would accept that, except that you seem to be contradicting yourself. My question was pretty clear:

"why not work to improve the ACA rather than just try to go back to the bad status quo?"

As was your response:

"Because fixing it will cost a lot more, and lead to a lot more problems with coverage, than having had it done right in the first place."

Does that sentence not explain why you would rather see it killed and go back to the bad status quo than fix it?


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Saturday, October 26, 2013 2:49 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
And doing it right the first time is pretty much impossible when one party is dedicated to doing anything they can to make sure it doesn't happen at all.



The Democrats?

From the Washington Post article about failing insurance co-ops.

Quote:

And even as the Obama administration was setting up the program, White House officials, who had no pride of authorship and feared it would be risky, repeatedly suggested that funding for the co-ops be reduced, according to more than half a dozen people familiar with budget negotiations and the legislative debate. The funding was cut to a small fraction of what experts told Congress would be needed for the ventures to be viable.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/health-co-ops-created-to-foster
-competition-and-lower-insurance-costs-are-facing-danger/2013/10/22/e1c961fe-3809-11e3-ae46-e4248e75c8ea_story.html



"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Saturday, October 26, 2013 2:51 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
It's part of the ACA that doesn't work. It's going to cost folks money that've paid to co-ops for coverage they won't get. It's going to require them to search for new coverage, and probably more expensive coverage since the co-ops were non-profit. Not to mention the problems they'll have if they have substantial medical expenses during the time between when the co-op they thought had them covered fails and they find new coverage.

Yes, eventually, they will probably be covered again, but if the folks who had designed this portion of the ACA had done a proper job, they wouldn't be scrambling to get new coverage.



Some of the co-ops have closed, many are struggling however even the even the article states that the co-ops were going to rely on exchanges to get people enrolled. You know the exchanges that just opened.

Yes, the co-ops would be doing better if the money they were to get to start up had not be converted to loans, but once the exchanges are fully up and running the co-ops that survive could do very well and new ones could open up.


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:I have G's post above about costs for a hip replacement in Europe vs. in the U.S.

I could also note that the U.S. has the highest cost of healthcare as a percentage of GDP and per capita in the world. Go to Nationmaster.com and look under the "health" category at costs, and pretty much every one has the U.S. paying more for healthcare than anyone else in the world.



...and none of that addresses what I wrote.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, October 26, 2013 2:55 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:

Most likely that so called specialist does not know what they are talking about.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2013/10/healthcare_go
v_problems_what_5_million_lines_of_code_really_means.html?wpisrc=burger_bar





The only messy reporting is coming from the Left, and those friendly towards this administration, it seems.

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2013/10/24/cmon-the-obamacare-web
site-doesnt-have-500-million-lines-of-code
/

****

WASHINGTON (CNN) - Amid the government shutdown, the online health insurance exchanges are open for business.

The White House said there would be glitches with the Affordable Care Act roll-out, but some experts question the severity.

Luke Chung operates a database company in northern Virginia. He's an expert on heavily-trafficked websites, but even he is frustrated navigating 'healthcare.gov.'

Since the Obamacare rollout last week, Chung's been trying only to get quotes on prices, not even to enroll.

Error messages, slow connections, getting booted out of the system, and other problems have exasperated hundreds of thousands of uninsured who've tried to log-on.

Now we're hearing the Obama Administration was warned well before the rollout that the online exchange had big problems.

One Democratic ally of the administration, Congressman Robert Andrews, says he spoke to the White House, months before the unveiling.

"I discussed with White House people things they already knew, which is that an undertaking of this size is going to be very complex," said Andrews.

Andrews believes the White House was on top of the situation. Robert Laszewski, a health-care consultant, disagrees.

Robert says many of his clients, major insurers, had contentious meetings with the administration ahead of the rollout. "Insurance executives have been warning the administration bluntly that this whole system is not ready for primetime. It wasn't going to be ready on October 1st to appropriately enroll people."

http://www.wwlp.com/news/national/were-warnings-for-the-obamacare-site
-ignored



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall



Nothing in that post supports anyone having to re-write code. Which is what you had claimed. Yes, the website roll out has bee fucked up, but it will be fixed. Hell they have already fixed the biggest problem causes which was making people create an account to compare plans.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, October 26, 2013 3:46 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


"Well, it's the non-profit co-ops that are failing."

ARE they failing? Show me some cites, or that gets filed under 'opinion'.

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Saturday, October 26, 2013 10:31 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by 1kiki:
"Well, it's the non-profit co-ops that are failing."

ARE they failing? Show me some cites, or that gets filed under 'opinion'.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/health-co-ops-created-to-foster
-competition-and-lower-insurance-costs-are-facing-danger/2013/10/22/e1c961fe-3809-11e3-ae46-e4248e75c8ea_story.html


For the third of fourth time.

You are such an idiot.


"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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