Any plumbers in here or close reletives of plumers? by 6IXSTRINGJACK

Good to hear. :)

So... no plumbing knowledge then Rap? :(

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Saturday, November 9, 2013 1:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Rap has plumbing knowledge?

No plumbing knowledge specifically, but I DO work with instruments that use pumps, and ... yep, they can get airlock. You have to "prime" them if they run dry before you try to use them again. It's almost like a compressor on an A/C unit with vapor lock. You can burn one up in a hurry if it's trying to run like that all of the time.

AFA lint... I don't know anything about those pumps, but I DO know about lint... that shit plasters itself onto the interior of anything that it runs thru... wash machine parts, main sewer lines, and especially SEPTIC TANKS. (The only things worse for septic tanks are fat/grease/oil and "flushable" wipes.)

You might want to buy a lint trap for your machine drain hose. You can buy one http://www.amazon.com/Washing-Machine-Traps-Aluminum-Clamps/dp/B003XEF
7DK or if you have any lady friends who use pantyhose, just ask them for any they no longer use and use a ziptie to attach. That wornout pantyhose is not only cheaper than, it's more effective (smaller mesh).. just make sure to change it out otherwise your machine will be struggling to pump out water and you'll have ANOTHER problem.

Hope this helps, 6IX!

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Saturday, November 9, 2013 1:14 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

BTW- since you seem to be getting all kinds of experience, have you ever thought to hire out as a handyman? Seems like you could charge $15-$20/ hour based on the complexity of the work, and put some extra cash in your pocket.

Not sure of the licensing requirements, but here in CA (and we are VERY strict about licenses!) as long as the job is less than $500 it doesn't require a license.

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Saturday, November 9, 2013 2:06 PM

Thanks Sig :)

I never heard of "air lock" before the instructions today pointed them out, but I'm guessing based on other forum responders that it's not Airlock. Seems once they alleviate the air pressure problem the unit worked again for them. Mine was dead in the water even when it had nothing but a 3 ft PVC pipe connected to nothing. Airlock may have aided or caused the problem over 8-9 months, but if it didn't kill it something else did.

The problem wasn't trying to run without water. It never tried to spit out more water than was in the well. I wouldn't have understood the problem until I made the "relief hole" in the PVC down in the well. As the thing runs now, a "FIRE HOSE" force water comes out of that 1/8" hole. When the unit stops, it fizzles out and you hear a "hissssssss" when it's done. That hiss is the air that was trapped between the unit and the check valve in the PVC pipes over the last 8-9 months after every push and the unit had to fight against that.

At least, this is my hope and I can totally blame the failure on me. Otherwise, I don't very well know how I could sleep at night again without having at least two backup pumps to the main pump.

As for helping other people in the neighborhood, you're right. I bet I could make twice what I'm making now doing occassional and weekly house maintanence.

I wouldn't want to make it a regular job to dive down in cold water to fix catastrophic problems, but I bet if I did that job for somebody else they'd have a handyman for life. :)

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Saturday, November 9, 2013 11:52 PM

Actually apartment complex maintainence ain't too bad, not sure what the exact specs are but if you don't mind working for low income complexes I am sure you could tie onto the tail of a more experienced supervisor.
Only problem is having to deal with people, but even so they kind of expect you to be grouchy, so there's that.

Just make sure to answer the emergency pager when yer on-call though, cause elsewise you might wind up with someone like me rolling your arse out of bed and being reallllly unhappy with you.
When maintainence won't answer pages over a blown pipe, the residents call me, cause they KNOW I will answer the phone, and last time that happened I kinda wound up chasing the drunken SOB off the property and patching the matter temporarily by cutting the water off upstream of the blowout.

-F

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 9:14 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

So did the newer pump not run at all, or run and not pump?

Does it have a float switch? If so, does the float float enough to operate the switch? (That's why I had to replace my 30 year old Zoeller. The pump worked but the switch didn't.)

When it's working, how often does your pump come on?

When you say you drain your laundry into the pump, do you mean into the well?

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 11:34 AM

Sig got most of it exactly right. Couple of points: some pumps are "self-priming". Means what it says, you don't have to prime it, put water in before you start it. Also, MOST sump pumps I have seen, the pump body itself is submerged, which means that it will fill with water just sitting still before the sump gets full. The discharge pipe is empty, but the business end isn't, so it's in a condition to do its job.

Second, lint is nasty stuff- it is small in diameter, but long and stringy, it can get through filters and plug things up, freeze them in position, stall the motor and burn it out.

I believe in a filter or screen or both on the suction side of any pump, but then that becomes a frequent maintenance item, weekly or monthly-- inspect it, clean it out, replace the filter element if clogged. A lot of labor, but it saves the cost of a replacement pump.

Not 'xackly a plumber, but 30 + years experience as a maintenance mechanic, seen my share of jammed pumps, burnt out motors, unseated pump valves that let it run without moving any water.

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 12:09 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Hey Jack

Out of curiosity, did you do a necropsy on it? Or was it covered by a warranty so you returned it?

Anyway - I had almost as shitty a weekend as you a while back - lost my wallet, car broke and computer died all in 2 days. So, I feel for you.

I third the advice you got - good thing you now have the hole drilled AND also, a pantyhose leg DOES make an excellent lint trap. Word of advice - it stretches waaay out when water flows thru it. It will reach downstream up to 5x its original length. So make sure it doesn't block anything.

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Sunday, November 10, 2013 7:11 PM

Another idea, 6--

if you're handy, you might be able to just replace the motor, rebuild the thing, keep it always on the shelf as a fast backup

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Monday, November 11, 2013 8:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
So did the newer pump not run at all, or run and not pump?

Hey Geezer,

The "new" pump I'm going to assume you meant the Zoeller I installed in February. Until Saturday morning it ran without a hitch and kept my crawl/basement nice and dry.

Quote:
Does it have a float switch? If so, does the float float enough to operate the switch? (That's why I had to replace my 30 year old Zoeller. The pump worked but the switch didn't.)

The switch was a vertical float switch (which I liked a LOT better than the tethered float switch the Coleman I bought Saturday has, but they didn't have the vertical switch model in stock and I had a very small window of time to fix the problem before I was taking on water in the living area).

As far as I can tell, the switch was working fine Saturday. When I pulled the unit out of the well and lifted the switch you'd hear the "click" and then there was a rather loud "electric whine" as if it was trying to work, but something else was wrong. As soon as you dropped it, you'd hear the click again and there was no noise.

Quote:
When it's working, how often does your pump come on?

When it was working, it's hard to say how often it came on because that really depended on how moist or dry the earth around the home was. During August, the well was completely dry unless I just did a load of laundry. At the bottom of the well there is a 4"-6" diameter pipe going into it. Without digging around the outside of my house, I believe this to be the drainage for an encapsulated drainage system around my home (which I believe is also known as a "French Drain"). During May when we got a ton of rain, that pump was going off up to a couple of times every hour even if it hadn't rained in days simply because the ground water seeped into the well from that pipe and then the pump shot it out into the storm sewers.

We've had quite a bit of rain around here the last few weeks, and I'm sure the morning dew on my roof and the ground doesn't help. I KNOW that the fact that I still haven't put gutters on the house is a major factor to how much water ends up in the well from outside.

Quote:
When you say you drain your laundry into the pump, do you mean into the well?

Yes, I mean that I drain it directly into the well. I do so without any form of filtering out the lint.

When I first got the washer, I put a small metal mesh sock at the end of the washer-hose that went up into a drain in the wall that went to PVC pipe that made its way to the well. The problem with that was the elbow that is right under the spot where the filter went in. After only 2 or 3 washes, that would get so clogged up that I'd end up with most of the water on my floor when it tried to drain.

I bought a very large "sock" to put at the end of the PVC right by the well to catch the lint. It is meant to be used as some sort of filter for sprinkler systems, and it is about 2-3' long. I figured I wouldn't have to change that for a year or two. The lint doesn't sink to the bottom of the sock though... it just built up around the sides of it. Eventually it was so clogged after only about 2 months that I had water all over my basement floor again because the sock had expanded like a balloon and was only draining water out of 20 pin-sized holes and reminded me of Bugs Bunny drinking a glass of water after Elmer Fudd shot him with the shotgun.

I was hoping that having a great pump would take care of the lint issue, but maybe I was wrong.

Thanks for your questions. Hope you have some ideas :)

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Monday, November 11, 2013 8:35 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Sig got most of it exactly right. Couple of points: some pumps are "self-priming". Means what it says, you don't have to prime it, put water in before you start it. Also, MOST sump pumps I have seen, the pump body itself is submerged, which means that it will fill with water just sitting still before the sump gets full. The discharge pipe is empty, but the business end isn't, so it's in a condition to do its job.

Hey NewOldBrownCoat,

I don't have to prime either the pump I just bought or the one that I bought in February that I just replaced. Both pumps were installed with nearly a foot of water to two feet of water ABOVE the well and made short work of the problem once installed and turned on. Not that I'd ever want to be in a position of trying it, but I'm pretty certain if I needed to install either one using scuba gear next time, because I had 3 feet of water in the living area, It would have gotten the water out in under two hours.

They are both submersible pumps, and unless the well was empty because it hadn't rained for weeks and the ground outside the house was dry, there is usually water covering most of the unit. This one allows water to be nearly at the top of the well before pumping any out. I'm not very happy about that, but it's because it's a "tethered float" instead of the more expensive "vertical float" that my old pump had. With the vertical float, the well was never more than 3/5 full before pumping out.

Quote:
Second, lint is nasty stuff- it is small in diameter, but long and stringy, it can get through filters and plug things up, freeze them in position, stall the motor and burn it out.

Yeah. When that shit drys (like it would in August when there is zero rain water coming in), it's like plaster. I bet even when it gets wet again it's just stuck where it is and does a fair job of collecting even more crap.

Quote:
I believe in a filter or screen or both on the suction side of any pump, but then that becomes a frequent maintenance item, weekly or monthly-- inspect it, clean it out, replace the filter element if clogged. A lot of labor, but it saves the cost of a replacement pump.

This may be a necessary evil as long as I live here. The "sock" type filters, as I mentioned in my post to Geezer are not effective at all with my setup. Even after bleaching the visqueen I hate going down there for any reason, but at least I'm not crawling over residual mold spores like I had to before cleaning it out. I might have to devise some sort of filter in the well that is easy to remove and put back after cleaning it every month or so.

Quote:
Not 'xackly a plumber, but 30 + years experience as a maintenance mechanic, seen my share of jammed pumps, burnt out motors, unseated pump valves that let it run without moving any water.

Maybe talking to you is better than talking to a plumber :) If you have the time, I'd appreciate you looking at my previous post answering Geezer's questions and see if you have anything to add when you know a bit more about the situation.

Definitely appreciate the input :)

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Monday, November 11, 2013 8:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hey Jack

Out of curiosity, did you do a necropsy on it? Or was it covered by a warranty so you returned it?

Anyway - I had almost as shitty a weekend as you a while back - lost my wallet, car broke and computer died all in 2 days. So, I feel for you.

I third the advice you got - good thing you now have the hole drilled AND also, a pantyhose leg DOES make an excellent lint trap. Word of advice - it stretches waaay out when water flows thru it. It will reach downstream up to 5x its original length. So make sure it doesn't block anything.

Hey 1kiki,

If by necropsy, you mean I just shit-canned it, no. It's sitting at the entrance to the crawl at the moment. I'm pretty sure that the issue is fixable without too much effort, and I really would like to get into small engine repair, so there's no sense in throwing away what could be a great emergency use back-up if I got her running again.

I haven't looked into it yet, but I would have to imagine that after only 8-9 months it's still under warranty. The problem is I bought it from a 3rd party seller on Amazon (saving me nearly 60% of what I would have paid for the same unit at Sears). I'm not expecting that the seller will be helpful at all. I may be able to work with Zoeller, but since I never "registered" the product I might hit a dead end there too. Amazon.com customer service is stellar and have worked with me in the past on other things, so that's always a possibility.

I won't throw it away, but I might be stuck trying to fix it myself, which for several reasons isn't exactly a bad thing. As pissed as I was when it happened, now that the dust has settled I'm not really bothered too much. I'm figuring I saved about 800 bucks in labor the first time around by doing it myself, on top of the 60% off the pump itself. Replacing a sump-pump as a maintenance issue in good weather and dry conditions wouldn't cost too much in labor, but I know that I wouldn't have ever waded around in nearly 2 feet of freezing cold water, naked, to replace that pump for anything less than $500 :)

I'm sorry to hear about your shitty weekend :(

Not that it makes it any better, but my good computer took a crap about a month and a half ago myself. I'm typing to you on a "Frankenstein Monster" I put together with 3 old computers. Only 1GB of memory compared to my old 4GB machine. This thing runs SOOOOOO SLOW. It also doesn't like to start up. I've never seen anything like it before. USUALLY, if you let it sit for about an hour it starts up without a problem, but if there is a problem when it is booting up you have to wait another hour before even attempting it. It keeps running when Windows is finally successfully loaded, but when you start experiencing memory issues (like you always do after leaving a PC on for days or weeks), you can't just re-boot. You have to wait at least an hour before turning it back on. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR.......

It's amazing how cheap you can build an awesome new computer for now. I figure for around $400 bucks I can build a PC with 16GB memory (upgradable to 32GB), a decent ASUS motherboard that can do USB 3.0, a decent AMD CPU that would run circles around my old chip, and I might even be able to squeeze in a 200GB solid state hard drive as my C: drive.

Bummer I had to spend $180 on a new pump right now. I'll just have to wait until sometime in Janurary now to do it instead of next month. (Unless the Black Friday/Christmas deals are just too good to pass up on, right?).

I'll have to try that pantyhose thing. Maybe it would work a lot better than the sprinkler sock I paid 8 bucks for? Also, I'm sure they're a lot cheaper than 8 bucks a piece, so even if I did have to replace it every month it would just be a matter of unscrewing the clamp, throwing the old one away and installing a new one. The one I was using was so expensive that I would turn it inside-out and literally spend 30 minutes scraping lint off of it before I put it back on. Gross.....

Let's hope that the rest of 2013 doesn't throw us any more curve-balls :)

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Monday, November 11, 2013 8:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Another idea, 6--

if you're handy, you might be able to just replace the motor, rebuild the thing, keep it always on the shelf as a fast backup

Haha! Yep. That's the plan.

If I can't get it replaced, which I'm seriously doubting because I bought it at a steep discount by a 3rd party Amazon retailer and never registered it, the plan is to open that puppy up and learn a thing or two about how a sump-pump actually works.

I wouldn't trust a unit I refurbed as a primary unit, but if I keep a 3-foot lenghth of PVC, the proper connectors, and a supply of PVC primer and glue handy, I could re-install that thing in about 15 minutes the next time it happens.

I'm actually getting quite good at this. ;)

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Monday, November 11, 2013 9:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Actually apartment complex maintainence ain't too bad, not sure what the exact specs are but if you don't mind working for low income complexes I am sure you could tie onto the tail of a more experienced supervisor.
Only problem is having to deal with people, but even so they kind of expect you to be grouchy, so there's that.

Just make sure to answer the emergency pager when yer on-call though, cause elsewise you might wind up with someone like me rolling your arse out of bed and being reallllly unhappy with you.
When maintainence won't answer pages over a blown pipe, the residents call me, cause they KNOW I will answer the phone, and last time that happened I kinda wound up chasing the drunken SOB off the property and patching the matter temporarily by cutting the water off upstream of the blowout.

-F

Hey Frem,

I appreciate the suggestion, but I think I would be more suited for non-emergency work, given my proclivities to drink and/or get high when I'm not scheduled to work. (yeah... started smoking weed again a while back).

Maybe if I were only on call say 3 days a week, it wouldn't be a problem, but I'd hate to be a let-down to somebody on the job because of what I chose to do when I wasn't scheduled. I've never had a single complaint from a boss in my life, and given my multitude of bad behaviors, I pride myself on that. If I were to get fired for something like that, I would be super embarrassed.

Believe it or not, I'm actually really great with people when I need to be in the "real world". I might not be the type to hang out with people much outside of work these days, but I enjoy nearly everyone's company at work and I'd like to think they felt the same about me. The "moms" and "grand-moms", especially. I'm 34 years old and I have about 4 "work moms" at my job now. They're always bringing me food to eat on break :) If they ever need any help with anything they know they just need to ask. I overheard one of the day-shift girls tell somebody what a "gentleman" I was tonight. Now that the big "retail season" is well under way, we have quite a few of the day-shifters working along side of us at night. Never worked with her before, or even talked too much other than "hi and bye" before tonight. I wasn't even thinking about being a "gentleman" when I did what I did... I just naturally do things like haul back peoples trash to bail or compact it when I have an empty jack from taking something out and working it (as not to waste a loooooong trip). I guess that type of behavior is just so lacking at this low-a-level job these days that when I do it it is considered "gentlemanly behavior" ;)

Hey... I'll take it where I can get it, right?

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Monday, November 11, 2013 9:53 AM

I just wanted to say thanks to EVERYONE who has responded to this thread.

I know that it may not be a NORMAL thread here in the RWED, but I don't think I've ever been accused of being "normal" :)

This was part of my RW, so I made it part of our RWED.

I'm sure this question would be better suited for people in the DIY discussion forum I'm a part of, but I don't know any of them. They're helpful, for sure, but even though we've never met each other in person I feel that I know most of you at least somewhat and I even care about some of you which is pretty weird, again, considering we've never even met face to face.

The issue was "fixed" at least two hours before I started this thread. I have questions about how to keep this from happening again for sure, but part of it was just being able to vent and find some solidarity with a group of friends, if I may be so bold...

Home problems happen to all of us. All of us could use a vent for our frustrations from time to time... some more than others ;). When I bring this here, I can drink my beer, have a few smokes, and talk about some semi-heroic things I did and not sound like a total bummer if I were talking about my pump going out to one of my friends or my bro or my mom/dad obsessively and bringing them down about it when they've all got their own problems to deal with it.

No matter what spot you are on the political spectrum, I believe that every single one of us, the RWED regulars, actually take some time out of our days to find something to argue about. I believe it's in our nature. How could it not be the truth? If that were not true about me, why would I be here? I cancelled my Facebook several times and haven't re-opened it since 1 year and 3 days ago. I was heavily involved in a major unpaid video-game project years ago and my bad behavior on my "off-time" from my "real" job made it so I was more of a hassle to keep around. I still have friends there, but people who I grew to care about there want nothing to do with me now. I used to think they just didn't want to listen to me after I stopped being the single major contributor, but now I think they were just tired of doing what I told them to do and me taking them for granted. The fact that I wasn't regularly contributing anymore made it easy for them to just tell me to STFU.

RWED is really something special to me. And to those who are still here and/or bounce away and come back over the years, I think you could say the same thing. We aren't censored. I have never had a single post removed here, no matter how vulgar it was. Hell, I'm no Kaneman (inside joke for some of us), but I've said some pretty vile things from time to time. None of my posts/threads were EVER diverted to "Troll Country (or County?)". On rare occasion, that means A LOT, considering my regrettable use of the "C" word on at least 3 occasions.

At the end of the day, I hope we can all be friends, even if it is in our admittedly kinda-sick ways.

Even my homegirl Niki, if she's reading this. Sorry that at least one of those 3 "C" words I used were a jab at you. I'm a drunk. I'm sick. Outside of a Catholic Priest in confessional, I would expect you to be the one person so bleeding-hearted as to lay down your arms and forgive me that transgression. :) ;)

I'll admit that I only have the capacity to think/and/or/care about for a max of like 50 people. I'm old-school like that.

You're not the one I'm singing Willie Nelson tunes to, but just saying that at the end of the day I don't go to bed angry at anyone. The world is just as F'd as it ever was. We've got enough external forces with faces of people we've never met and will never meet to keep us awake in bed.

I'll be honest with you. I've thought of you as the face of "ill-tempered middle-aged, man-hating women" from time to time when we've interacted. I'm sure that you've thought of me as some equal fallacy of two people who would probably be really friendly in real life if they happened to work together at a job.

I never talk politics or religion in the REAL WORLD..... EVER.

Trust me Niki. You'd be one of my work moms :)

Thanks again for everyone who has posted their ideas back. I hope I was as detailed as you needed the questions answered and just attentive with your posts and thoughts. I think I got the idea about listening to other people's thoughts and opinions and remembering them in later conversations in "real" life (Thanks Dale Carnagie!), but I know I really need to work on that in my quasi-anon online life.

I really want to open up my Facebook page again, DAMMIT!!!

If I can't be friends or at least friendly with everyone here in the RWED, I shouldn't have a Facebook page.

That should be a Fucking Internet Rule. (FIR)

The first official FIR...

2013 wasn't the best year of my life, but it was far from the worst. If the quality of my years start regularly dipping below my middle-school years of being a 74lb. bespectacled and braces-wearing genius who had his soul sucked out of him by idiot kids who are either dead or in jail or living great lives with great families and feeling really shitty about what huge d-bags or bitches they were when they were idiot kids.... Well.... Shame on me for allowing that to happen to myself.

Happy Monday, November 11th, 2013 everyone.

2012 didn't kill us. Y2K wasn't the rise against the machines.

I'm sure that 2014 will give us just as much shit to argue about as we had last year. Looking forward to it. :)

Oh..... don't let this derail the true meaning of the thread. I really want to know more about this shit so it doesn't happen again.

EDITED TO ADD: Mentioned lyrics to this song in the post and had it stuck in my mind since....

Not a big Willie Nelson fan, but this song is just awesome. He's an awesome person from what I know about him too, just couldn't tell you a single other song he ever did. Maybe I should ask for recommendations here? :)

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Monday, November 11, 2013 9:59 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
As far as I can tell, the switch was working fine Saturday. When I pulled the unit out of the well and lifted the switch you'd hear the "click" and then there was a rather loud "electric whine" as if it was trying to work, but something else was wrong. As soon as you dropped it, you'd hear the click again and there was no noise.

Sounds like something jamming up the impeller. If your pump is like mine, you should be able to pull off the bottom by taking off a few screws and see the impeller pretty clearly. Since the guard at the bottom should keep out solids large enough to cause a problem, I'm betting that you got stuff from the washer tying it up. Do you ever wash old frayed towels that you use for cleanup? Those can lose long strings that can really get wrapped around stuff.

Is there anyway that you can drain your washer into the normal sewer outlet rather than the sump? Seems like there should be a drain pipe in the basement you could tie into.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, November 11, 2013 10:30 AM

Hey again Geezer :)

http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/pumps-well-tanks/pumps/1-2-hp-aut
omatic-submersible-cast-iron-sump-pump/p-1777369-c-8673.htm

Without checking UPCs or SKUs, I believe this is my exact unit now. It's still die-cast awesomeness on the outside with zero plastic parts (to the naked eye).

The girls at Menards I talked to said that this pump shouldn't have a problem with laundry, although they might not have understood that I'm not using a filter. I bought it in an emergency, yes, but I don't even trust online research after the failure. This pump was supposed to handle any shit (literally) that was thrown at it and it only lasted 8 months before a catastrophic failure. If things go like they're supposed to, this half-pint Coleman should live at least 13 times longer than the Zoeller did. :)

Quote:
Sounds like something jamming up the impeller. If your pump is like mine, you should be able to pull off the bottom by taking off a few screws and see the impeller pretty clearly. Since the guard at the bottom should keep out solids large enough to cause a problem, I'm betting that you got stuff from the washer tying it up. Do you ever wash old frayed towels that you use for cleanup? Those can lose long strings that can really get wrapped around stuff.

Impeller - [definition] 2. - a rotor for transmitting motion, as in a centrifugal pump, blower, turbine, or fluid coupling.

I looked it up and read it, but I still don't know what that is. Can you explain an "impeller" as if I were a 2 year old?

To answer your question, I rarely wash anything old and frayed. Being a single guy with no pets, my lint is likely at the bottom rung of "worry" on a scale from 1 to OH SHIT.

I will have to open that up to look at it though. It will be kind of cool opening it up and actually seeing what my own "impeller" was and to know what it did the whole 8-9 months it was working right.

Quote:
Is there anyway that you can drain your washer into the normal sewer outlet rather than the sump? Seems like there should be a drain pipe in the basement you could tie into.

You would probably know more about that than I would.

ON the raised/tiled slab the washer and dryer sits on, there are two pipes going into the ground that are "sealed". On the right, is a PVC pipe that is about 3-4" higher than the surface. It is capped off with a PVC cap and it's glued tightly on. On the left is a metal pipe with a HEX bolt male top that screws into it. I happen to have a WICKED Pipe Wrench that I bought alongside a lot of 300+ tools for about $125 bucks on ebay (A total steal!!!!). This son of a bitch must give like a MILLION pounds of torque. Goddamned thing has to weigh 15-20 lbs. Neither me or my friend could move it. He's a lot scrawnier than me, but he believes somebody welded it on. He also said that he wouldn't ever recommend removing either unless I paid licensed and bonded plumbers to do it.

If I could somehow get my Washer to exert the force necessary to propel water upward into the storm drainage, I would do it. I can't figure out a way to do it with my limited knowledge on the subject. That's why I put it in the well. That Zoller was the 16 horses I had running under my house making sure everything was copacetic.

Now I check my crawlspace at least once an hour for problems and I even check it 2-3 times when I wake up at night. I hate not being able to rely on something so F'King critical to my home's well-being. :(

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Monday, November 11, 2013 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

As far as I can tell, the switch was working fine Saturday. When I pulled the unit out of the well and lifted the switch you'd hear the "click" and then there was a rather loud "electric whine" as if it was trying to work, but something else was wrong. As soon as you dropped it, you'd hear the click again and there was no noise.

Herd to diagnose a problem by READING words about the noise it's making. Sounds like the float switch is working. From my point of listening, a "whine" noise means that at least the motor is running, turning. A "buzz", to me would normally mean that the motor ISN'T turning, meaning either a mechanical jam or a failure of the starting circuit. Many 110 v AC motors use a capacitor-start system to kick the pump over and until it comes up to the speed where the magnetic field inside stabilizes. Not sure whether sump pumps use that method, been a while since I used one.

If the motor is turning, that suggests a mechanical breakage-- commonly either the motor shaft or the shaft hole in the impeller, or the bolt that holds the two together.

An impeller is the spinny disk shaped part inside the pump housing, usually a flat round plate with not very tall ribs or vanes on it, either straight or curved- something like a fan blade, only with a plate on one or both sides. GOOGLE Images oughtta have pictures.

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Monday, November 11, 2013 11:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

I wouldn't trust a unit I refurbed as a primary unit, but if I keep a 3-foot lenghth of PVC, the proper connectors, and a supply of PVC primer and glue handy, I could re-install that thing in about 15 minutes the next time it happens.

'Sa funny thing-- I just started a new job after a long dry spell, in spite of over 30 years experience. They were telling me about their policy regarding repaired/rebuilt parts, especially from outside vendors. They immediately throw the repaired one back into service, instead of using the new one, even if it means shutting down a running machine that's working fine. The idea is to test the repair, find out RIGHT AWAY whether the fix is good or not, rather than having it set on a shelf until they NEED it, and then discovering that it's No Good.

IN all my years, I've never seen anybody do it that way, never thought of that, in spite of being bit by the bad spare bug more than once. Every day ya learn something new...

Other than that, I agree. Keep a spare available if you can afford it, along with the stuff it needs to make a quick install. Next time yer swimmin' in it, you'll be glad.

E-T-A: Lotta pictures on Google. Not gonna post a link, but under images, search "Sump pump impeller" or just "impeller". The second will get you lots of pictures of turbines, etc. that won't help, but the first should get you at least one picture that exactly matches the type you've got.

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Monday, November 11, 2013 2:36 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Hey again Geezer :)

Impeller - [definition] 2. - a rotor for transmitting motion, as in a centrifugal pump, blower, turbine, or fluid coupling.

I looked it up and read it, but I still don't know what that is. Can you explain an "impeller" as if I were a 2 year old?

To answer your question, I rarely wash anything old and frayed. Being a single guy with no pets, my lint is likely at the bottom rung of "worry" on a scale from 1 to OH SHIT.

I will have to open that up to look at it though. It will be kind of cool opening it up and actually seeing what my own "impeller" was and to know what it did the whole 8-9 months it was working right.

Here's an exploded view of a Zoeller pump. The impeller is part #13. It spins, sucking water up through a hole in the bottom of the pump, and forcing it out into the impeller housing (part #10 is the top half of the impeller housing and the matching piece below the impeller is the bottom)and then around it and up the pipe to outside. You should be able to remove the screws on the bottom half of the impeller housing and remove it to see the impeller clearly. (My lawyers say I must tell you to make sure the pump is unplugged before working on it.) Don't open anything else, as you may compromise the seals and get water into the electrics.

After you get the bottom housing off, try spinning the impeller with your fingers. If it moves freely, it's probably an electric problem and beyond simple repair. If you feel resistance, see if there's anything stuck in the blades, wedged between the impeller and the top housing, or wrapped around the motor shaft between the impeller and the upper impeller housing.

Quote:
ON the raised/tiled slab the washer and dryer sits on, there are two pipes going into the ground that are "sealed". On the right, is a PVC pipe that is about 3-4" higher than the surface. It is capped off with a PVC cap and it's glued tightly on.

If the PVC is around 2" in diameter, it sounds like a drain, probably sealed off to keep sewer gas out since it's not used and the J trap (it's probably under the floor and was installed first and the slab poured around it) that seals gas out when full of water can dry out and let gas in. I do agree with your friend that you should probably get a plumber to check it out before doing anything.

Let us know how the dissection of the failed pump goes.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, November 11, 2013 3:05 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
On the left is a metal pipe with a HEX bolt male top that screws into it.

Just thinking.

Is that metal pipe black?

If so it may be a natural gas line.

Let's not mess with that.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Monday, November 11, 2013 3:39 PM

Well, I'd recommend your hire, if for no other reason that you'd appreciate the "consequences" both official and... unofficial*... of fucking it up.
$12/hr ain't half bad, but the commute would suck, given this podunk little spit of dirt in MI is pretty far away.

-Frem

Select to view spoiler:

And, yes, that means getting the absolute shit beaten out of you by an enraged security goon with a LOT of pent up aggression to work off, not that there was any real doubt in the first place.

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Monday, November 11, 2013 3:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
[Just thinking.

Is that metal pipe black?

If so it may be a natural gas line.

Let's not mess with that.

SECONDED.

-F

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Saturday, February 22, 2014 10:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
On the left is a metal pipe with a HEX bolt male top that screws into it.

Just thinking.

Is that metal pipe black?

If so it may be a natural gas line.

Let's not mess with that.

I wouldn't go as far as to say "black" but it might have been there since 1959, so who's to say if it wasn't back then. It seems really quite "thick" for a natural gas line to a residential home, but trust that I won't try taking it off again :)

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Saturday, February 22, 2014 10:52 AM

Dug up this thread because I think I can make some good news out of bad news...

I know it was humid as hell last summer, and it wasn't any cooler than the two dry summers we had before that, but living here for nearly three months was so agonizing that even in this cold and snowy ass winter I haven't complained much after fixing my snowblower..... It was HUMID as shit in my house though, all the time, even on the nights when it would be fairly cool and fairly humid.

The extreme melting happening over the last few days gave me quite a scare yesterday. I woke up and i noticed some of the times were wet in the basement from the kitchen. I walked down and turned on the light and immediately got my socks wet. I freaked... I thought either my sump pump failed again, or the storm sewers were backing up with all the "melt". I freaked double-time when I looked to the back of the crawlspace and saw the water was at the top of the well. There was also some water built up in puddles over the plastic here and there, but unlike when a pump fails there was no evidence of standing water under the plastic and the ground was hard.

WTF? I thought..... I was even more baffled when I heard the pump go off and start getting rid of more water.

This unit I bought this time wasn't a mechanical float. It was a tethered float. Even though the unit is smaller, it waits until the water is MUCH higher because it's on a "tethered float" which is essentially a heavy duty black electrical cord attached to a floating mechanism with some sort of tumbling mechanism in it that makes it kick off when the water pushes the float high enough.

Not only is this tether so long that it lets water get to the very top of the well before it works, but there's a large cracked portion in the concrete well that is just allowing X amount of gallons of water to trickle out into my crawlspace dirt before something big like doing the laundry kicks so much water into it that it will start up.

I tried fixing it yesterday but with the "melt" happening I'm afraid to do what I need to do with it. The well is always at least half full, so if I unscrew the clamp on the tether to adjust it I'm not confident that it will go without mistakes being made and I could lose either or both in the freezing water in the well. I managed to shorten the tether about 1/2" and haven't seen any water coming up from under the plastic, but I know it needs to go about 1" shorter at least.

I honestly can't recall my sump pump going off at all last summer unless there were major thunderstorms (of which we had plenty). Now that I've shortened the tether, that unit has been going off around every 10 minutes while our 3 feet of snow has melted to just about a foot.

I'm going to buy a new well made of some modern composite and put that in to replace the broken concrete one. While I'm at it, I'm going to buy a second one, make a second well and install a back-up sump, and I'm going to re-install all of the PVC piping and put in all new catch valves.

A pricey proposition, for sure, but since I'll be doing all the labor it won't be all that bad.

That's one of my two major goals this year. Get a battery backed up secondary pump that will work when the first pump fails or the electricity goes out, and get gutters on my house to divert most of this rainwater away from the foundation of my house.

Yeah, it sucks not having money to do anything at the end of any given week, but at least this year I will hopefully have most of my "water" problems in my past instead of just being able to say that I didn't go into debt. That will be my "surplus" spending this year. I personally know people who make nearly as much for their yearly bonus as I will gross for the entire year.

If I can get a furnace installed in the Energy Assistance program this year, then the only big ticket items I have left are a central air unit and a generac to make sure that the primary pump is working even when the electric goes out.

Another two or three years of doing without there, but after that any money I put into this house will give nearly instantaneous good time feelings when it is beautifying it.

Glad to be learning these lessons while I'm still young enough to fight the fights you wouldn't have to fight if you were always prepared.

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Saturday, February 22, 2014 11:17 AM