About Bush and SNAP... by Niki2

America loves a winner!

Bush was a BIG GOVT '*Republian' as well. But, we already knew that.

*Edited.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, November 15, 2013 11:18 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Bush was a BIG GOVT conservative as well. But, we already knew that.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

And you supported him every goddamned step of the way.

Only once he was out of office did you unwavering support diminish.

But we already knew that...

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, November 15, 2013 1:13 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

I guess nobody on the right wants to discuss what the actual figures are regarding SNAP over the last three Presidents...I wonder why not? They're screaming bloody murder about "Obama's SNAP", at a time when Americans desperately need it, but don't want to discuss why Bush enlarged it as much as he did in good times?

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Friday, November 15, 2013 3:11 PM

I wonder how many of those, in the increased numbers, for the 3 presidents were returning soldiers from the Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan wars.

I'm just saying, since some 900,000 veterans are in need of health insurance. How about those jobs numbers? My nephew, who proudly served, is currently out of work. He also suffers from PTSD.

Now, it irks me to no end that all people want to talk about is Obamacare and how it's failed, that includes the mainstream media. Yet they don't want to talk about this issue - the purposed cuts to SNAP and how this will affect all recipients, but most especially veterans who served their country. Then too, the 47 million Americans that don't have health coverage.

Personal responsibility: This is one of the Tea Party mantras. Then why are they promoting the "Catastrophic" insurance market, which gouges it's participants and puts a strain upon hospitals and the hard-working taxpayers. You may ask why. Well, the underinsured and uninsured alike, put a strain on the system because those policies don't cover certain things like hospital stays and maybe certain medical procedures.

Somebody has to pay for that. Mostly it places an economic strain on the hospitals. The insurance companies walk laughing to the bank and we, the taxpayers have to pick up the slack. How is that responsible? There must be stats on the strain these underinsured people place on the system that would shed light upon this touchy subject. I'm not sure why the president doesn't hire someone to look into this aspect of the health insurance programs. Then include it in his remarks in defending the ACA.

Ok, let's see the right explain that one away. But I'm becoming increasingly frustrated with the mainstream media. They should be "flagged" for piling on, unsportsmanlike conduct. All the emphasis is being placed on the "horror" stories from the 'catastrophic" insurance holders losing their policies, but what about:

1- The insurance companies gleefully dropping these folks
2- These participants kicking and screaming bloody murder and wanting to continue the status quo by rolling the health dice
3- The millions of people without any health coverage
4- What about the positive stories of people who have successfully signed on to Obamacare (like in California, Kentucky and yes, Mass).

The mainstream media is doing a lousy job in comprehensive coverage of this all important topic, namely national health coverage. Hell, Canada has it (just ask Sarah Palin), and are they any better, as a nation, than us. Hell, France and England have it. Need I say more.

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
I guess nobody on the right wants to discuss what the actual figures are regarding SNAP over the last three Presidents...I wonder why not? They're screaming bloody murder about "Obama's SNAP", at a time when Americans desperately need it, but don't want to discuss why Bush enlarged it as much as he did in good times?

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Friday, November 15, 2013 3:18 PM

Suddenly, Bush is not conservative enough...........hmmmmmmmmm

Curious-er and curious-er!!!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Bush was a BIG GOVT conservative as well. But, we already knew that.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, November 15, 2013 3:19 PM

Great work Niki, I applaud you.

SGG

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Friday, November 15, 2013 4:51 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Bush was a BIG GOVT *Republican as well. But, we already knew that.

And you supported him every goddamned step of the way.

Only once he was out of office did you unwavering support diminish.

But we already knew that...

I edited your quote of MY comment, to clarify.

And absolutely, I DID support W over Gore and Kerry, and would do so, gladly, every time.

@ Niki - Yes. I misspoke. Got it wrong, if you will. Bush was no ' conservative '. Compassionate or otherwise. When I read the above comment, I realized the error I had made, and then you cleverly, accurately jumped on it. Duly noted, and corrected.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, November 15, 2013 5:01 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!

Rappy the king of fallacies. This one is called No True Scotsman.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, November 15, 2013 5:07 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Rappy the king of fallacies. This one is called No True Scotsman.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Friday, November 15, 2013 5:25 PM

WHOZIT

Still trashing Bush? Really? Why don't we revist the Tea Pot Dome Scandal? Barry is a disaster and you dopey libs want to revist PAST Republican Presidents.

How many young men died in Vietnam because of 2 DEMOCRAT Presidents....shut up.

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Friday, November 15, 2013 9:49 PM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Shiny, that was great. You covered the salient points of the problem far more concisely than I could, and in your own words, quite eloquently. It will, of course, get absolutely no attention from our hard-core righties, but that doesn't make it one whit less the very core of the issue.

They are never, NEVER going to answer the question as to why Bush enlarged the SNAP rolls so massively in what were according to them "boom times", nor give one iota of credit to what America has been fighting its way out of ever SINCE Bush and how much that and two wars account for the increase under Obama. Reality doesn't fit their narrative, as we well know.

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Friday, November 15, 2013 10:30 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
The SNAP budget in 2001, when Bush took office, was $17,789.39. In 2009, when Obama took office, it was $53,621.49. In 2012, it was $78,435.92. So it went up $35,832.10, or essentially doubled, under Bush. It has gone up $24,814.43 under Obama, during the worst economic times in America since the Depression. Gee, I'm sure that had nothing to do with it.

So in the eight years Bush was president it went up an average of about $4.5 billion a year. for the four years you show (2009-2012) for Obama it went up an average of about $6.25 billion.

Not sure I'm seeing your point.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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Friday, November 15, 2013 10:35 PM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by whozit

Still trashing Bush? Really? Why don't we revist the Tea Pot Dome Scandal? Barry is a disaster and you dopey libs want to revist PAST Republican Presidents.

They always go back to the bash Bush well because the enormity of the Obama calamity is just too much for them to face. But with 38 months of the lamest lame duck to go, it still has great potential to reach all sorts of levels of never-before-seen chaos and hilarity.

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Friday, November 15, 2013 10:46 PM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Rappy the king of fallacies.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

And revising history.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:24 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

More telling than average figures:

2001 17,789.39
2002 20,637.02 +2.8 < Bush's 'on fire!' economy with steady yearly increases in poverty.
2003 23,816.28 +3.2
2004 27,099.03 +3.3
2005 31,072.11 +4.0
2006 32,903.06 +1.8
2007 33,174.48 +2.7
2008 37,642.04 +4.5
2009 53,621.49 +16.0 < Bush's magic exploding economy with exploding levels of poverty.
2010 68,313.15 +14.7
2011 75,711.83 +7.4

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 4:29 AM

Now that's a sure sign that the sky is gonna fall..............
Rap admitting to a mistake........call Guiness!!!

Whooops, call Ripley!!!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Bush was a BIG GOVT *Republican as well. But, we already knew that.

And you supported him every goddamned step of the way.

Only once he was out of office did you unwavering support diminish.

But we already knew that...

I edited your quote of MY comment, to clarify.

And absolutely, I DID support W over Gore and Kerry, and would do so, gladly, every time.

@ Niki - Yes. I misspoke. Got it wrong, if you will. Bush was no ' conservative '. Compassionate or otherwise. When I read the above comment, I realized the error I had made, and then you cleverly, accurately jumped on it. Duly noted, and corrected.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 5:04 AM

The Tea Party started this,

Bringing up, wrongly I might add, the Boston Tea Party. But let's not quibble. These troubling times with our current president didn't happen in a vacuum. Something lead up to the economic crisis in 2008, and who was in charge prior to. Ok, forget that for now (see, was that hard!?)

Despite the problems, both real and imagined, facing the president the economy has turned around. Of course, with no help from the Obstructionist Congress (who will go down in history, yes the stupid scumbags in T-Party Congress will, unwittingly - that's an understatement - further along the president's place in history) who have blindly and stupidly hacked away at every turn any effort to advance the cause to a better America.

But, because it was Obama who lead the way, strikes fear in the wicked and evil trolls, a putrid minority within the ranks of true Americans (the cowards within the more moderate conservatives; whom I also blame for this mess), have allowed our country to flounder due to prejudice, discrimination and pure hatred. A black man; born, raised and educated in this land, cannot be smarter than a bunch of old white men playing at running this country. This is what, I believe, Colin Powell foresaw when he begrudgingly turned down what could have easily been his for the taking.
Even he, an honorable and loyal warrior/republican, was smart enough to see the truth.

I applaud the president for having the balls to tackle such an enormous undertaking. He had to know this was coming yet, he attempted to grab the bull by the horns and meet the challenge - this, while others would have shyyt their pants at the prospect. Don't Tread On Me ain't nothing compared to the vitriol bombarded upon the president on a daily basis. Yes, I said it. It's been 5 years since we looked down into the jaws of the abyss and here we are, limping to the finish line, all under our own power, with slings and arrows hurled by so-called patriots.........and we still stand.

I know it's not that simple, but sometimes you just have to kick the door down and say loud and clear, "Come get me motherfuckers!"

The president has chosen to do that in his own way.

Bravo!!!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by whozit

Still trashing Bush? Really? Why don't we revist the Tea Pot Dome Scandal? Barry is a disaster and you dopey libs want to revist PAST Republican Presidents.

They always go back to the bash Bush well because the enormity of the Obama calamity is just too much for them to face. But with 38 months of the lamest lame duck to go, it still has great potential to reach all sorts of levels of never-before-seen chaos and hilarity.

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 5:42 AM

Thanks Niki,

I was watching Tamryn Hall interview a Democratic Senator re: the ACA and she was rude and cutting him off, when he had the "gall" to try and introduce positive anecdotal evidence that the ACA was not a total disaster.

That ticked me off. Here is a news agency, supposedly liberal and fair, totally ignoring a part of the story that would balance the overwhelming negative aspect of the mainstream coverage. Yes, the president fucked up. Yes, he has "fumbled" the ball at a critical moment. I blame him as well.
I'd say that the Obstructionists have scored off that most inopportune fumble. But it's still the 3rd Quarter, this game is far from over.

But, hearing them tell it, the media (I've seen a change in tone recently) paints a picture that has been leaning more towards the right in recent days. MSNBC is guilty of piling on and presenting the facts from one side and one side only. What happened to those 4% of Americans that have lost their health insurance is no coincidence. Independent reporters have exposed those people for the frauds they are. And lost in all of this is how the insurance companies willfully, and with cold calculation, have dropped their clients in the open market, only to once again profit from the well-meaning law.

Did the president lie? No. In his overzealous attempt to sell the ACA to the people, he stupidly and embarrassingly spoke before checking thoroughly the scope of his campaign rhetoric. I too am mad at him for being so arrogant, that he didn't stop for a moment to consult and consider. In other words, he didn't look before he leaped. Now he has to backpedal, and all the momentum that he and the democrats had gained during the Shut Down is all but gone. We all know that the ACA will help millions more Americans than it will harm, but now, it seems, the mainstream media has crossed the aisle and joined the Red Army.

Boy, are they ever gonna eat crow when this little squall of a storm blows over. No thanks to MSNBC or any other media outlet. Reality bites!!!

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Shiny, that was great. You covered the salient points of the problem far more concisely than I could, and in your own words, quite eloquently. It will, of course, get absolutely no attention from our hard-core righties, but that doesn't make it one whit less the very core of the issue.

They are never, NEVER going to answer the question as to why Bush enlarged the SNAP rolls so massively in what were according to them "boom times", nor give one iota of credit to what America has been fighting its way out of ever SINCE Bush and how much that and two wars account for the increase under Obama. Reality doesn't fit their narrative, as we well know.

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 9:27 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Quote:
So in the eight years Bush was president it went up an average of about $4.5 billion a year. for the four years you show (2009-2012) for Obama it went up an average of about $6.25 billion.

Not sure I'm seeing your point.

Of course Geezer sees my point; as usual, he's dogging my posts an immediately snarking, choosing what look to him like good facts and ignored the question. SNAP went DOWN during Clinton, when times were pretty good, as it should. It went UP during Bush, when times were supposedly fantastic, then STARTED going up hugely when the economy began to crash, under Bush, and have continued to go up as we've struggled with THE WORST ECONOMIC TIMES SINCE THE DEPRESSION, which is what programs like SNAP are all about and what they're intended to do.

The question is not how much they went up, but WHY did they go up under Bush, when we were experiencing boom times so there shouldn't logically be any need for more people to need more help. I realize you will insist on focusing like a laser on the fact that they've gone up under Obama, but that doesn't answer the question. Going up $6.25 billion a year when the nation is bleeding doesn't look that bad when you compare it to going up $4.5 billion a year for eight years of economic boom, but you about die rather than talk about that, obviously. What America has gone through has been an enormous boon for you guys insofar as it's enabled to you to point the finger at Obama for everything wrong and completely ignore what got us here.

The facts I offered also show that SNAP jumped $16 BILLION in one year, 2009, at the height of the economic crash, before any of Obama's efforts had time to take hold, $15 billion the next year, $7 billion the next, and less than $3 billion the next; exactly as should happen as the economy slowly drags itself out of the ditch. So again, WHY did it go up at all under Bush (when it went down under Clinton), and why so dramatically at the very end, if it's not because of the economic crash? It's a pretty simple question; why are you unwilling to respond to it?

Tell your idiot friend Jongs that we look at facts OVER TIME, because that's what intelligent people do, and America didn't get stuck in this hole by magic.

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 9:42 AM

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...

Shiny, I disagree. I think it was pure politics and he and they knew precisely what they were doing. Getting the ACA passed was an insane undertaking, he's not naïve and his advisors aren't dumb, they knew they had to do everything possible to give it any chance of happening. I have little doubt they made a political calculation: "We're gonna take a lot of shit for this, but we'll weather that and once it's in place, we can improve it". It's not a good beginning, they knew they had to give away the store to get it past the insurance interests and they did, they had to know the insurance companies would play every game in the book to make hay, but that's what they were up against.

While I also hate how fickle the media is (well, except for the hard-core, right-wing media, which is NEVER fickle, and ALWAYS right wing), I'd far rather have them come down hard when it's appropriate than try to pretend it's not as bad as it is. This will all pass--tho' I'll never completely forgive them for the fuck-up of the roll-out (a CANADIAN computer company, for gawd's sake??? We INVENTED computers, right here in California!)--and the only thing that's important is that once the American people understand that ACA and experience it, we can start to improve it and it will be there for the millions who need it. It's worth it. JMHO.

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 10:06 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Rappy the king of fallacies.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

And revising history.

How are either remotely true ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 11:03 AM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
And absolutely, I DID support W over Gore and Kerry, and would do so, gladly, every time.

I saw a story that made me think some people here are being paid by the Republican Party. Who could naturally be this way? It has to be about money. Every ten clicks on a real world article at firefly fans dot net earns them a cent. http://ourfuture.org/20131114/astroturf-fix-the-debt-caught-ghostwriti
ng-for-college-students

Quote:
Our friend Jon Romano, press secretary for the inside-the-beltway PR campaign “Fix the Debt” and its pet youth group, The Can Kicks Back, have been caught writing op-eds for college students and placing the identical op-eds in papers across the country.

This is the latest slip-up in Fix the Debt’s efforts to portray itself as representing America’s youth. Previously, they were caught paying dancers to participate in a pro-austerity flash mob and paying Change.org to gather online petition signers for them.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:41 PM