REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Deniers Of Man-Made Climate Change Shut Down Again

POSTED BY: NIKI2
UPDATED: Saturday, December 21, 2013 09:35
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VIEWED: 2246
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Thursday, December 19, 2013 9:45 AM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Nathan Allen, moderator of a science forum on Reddit*, banned climate change deniers from posting and commenting on his forum. The move sparked outrage about censorship and silencing the opposition. The problem is, according to Allen, these people were rude and uninformed. He wanted to keep people there focused on talking about real science. Submissions have to relate to recent articles in peer-reviewed journals, not opinions or biased blogs.

Reddit is not the first place to shut down climate deniers.

The Los Angeles Times** stopped publishing letters to the editor based on climate change denial. Paul Thornton, L.A. Times’ letters editor, said that they don’t publish letters based on fiction.

A study put together about a year ago ( http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article) showed that 97% of the scientific community agrees on man-made climate change. DeSmogBlog posted its own study that showed only 23 peer-reviewed papers out of nearly 14,000 denied man-made climate change.

Normal discussions (on Reddit) about topics under true scientific debate often contain links to peer-reviewed articles to support each person’s point of view. The discussions are always respectful, and nobody intentionally misleads anybody, even among those with opposing views. The climate deniers were posting under multiple accounts, so they appeared to be a much larger group than they actually were.

Popular Science*** shut down all comments on their website several months ago. Their decision was based on a study that concluded uncivil and irrational comments online actually change how people interpret news. Popular Science doesn’t want to be a party to that. They’d rather their readers interpret their articles for themselves, without their perception colored by idiot commenters.

From the Reddit moderator:
Quote:

*Given that our users are mainly academics (and all are nerds), the discussion generally resembles any scientific debate. That is, there are always numerous links to peer-reviewed science to support positions, people don’t deliberately mislead or misrepresent content, and there is a basic level of respect shared regardless of position. When a user strays from such decorum, they are kindly warned and, if necessary, the comment is removed.

Some issues, however, are particularly contentious. While evolution and vaccines do have their detractors, no topic consistently evokes such rude, uninformed, and outspoken opinions as climate change.

Instead of the reasoned and civil conversations that arise in most threads, when it came to climate change the comment sections became a battleground. Rather than making thoughtful arguments based on peer-reviewed science to refute man-made climate change, contrarians immediately resorted to aggressive behaviors. On one side, deniers accused any of the hard-working scientists whose research supported and furthered our understanding of man-made climate change of being bought by “Big Green.” On the other side, deniers were frequently insulted and accused of being paid to comment on reddit by “Big Oil.”

After some time interacting with the regular denier posters, it became clear that they could not or would not improve their demeanor. These problematic users were not the common “internet trolls” looking to have a little fun upsetting people. Such users are practically the norm on reddit. These people were true believers, blind to the fact that their arguments were hopelessly flawed, the result of cherry-picked data and conspiratorial thinking. They had no idea that the smart-sounding talking points from their preferred climate blog were, even to a casual climate science observer, plainly wrong. They were completely enamored by the emotionally charged and rhetoric-based arguments of pundits on talk radio and Fox News.

As a scientist myself, it became clear to me that the contrarians were not capable of providing the science to support their “skepticism” on climate change. The evidence simply does not exist to justify continued denial that climate change is caused by humans and will be bad. There is always legitimate debate around the cutting edge of research, something we see regularly. But with climate change, science that has been established, constantly tested, and reaffirmed for decades was routinely called into question.

Over and over, solid peer-reviewed science was insulted as corrupt, while blog posts from fossil-fuel-funded groups were cited as objective fact. Worst of all, they didn’t even get the irony of quoting oil-funded blogs that called university scientists biased.

The end result was a disservice to science and to rational exploration, not to mention the scholarly audience we are proud to have cultivated. When 97 percent of climate scientists agree that man is changing the climate, we would hope the comments would at least acknowledge if not reflect such widespread consensus. Since that was not the case, we needed more than just an ad hoc approach to correct the situation.

The answer was found in the form of proactive moderation. About a year ago, we moderators became increasingly stringent with deniers. When a potentially controversial submission was posted, a warning would be issued stating the rules for comments (most importantly that your comment isn’t a conspiracy theory) and advising that further violations of the rules could result in the commenter being banned from the forum.

As expected, several users reacted strongly to this. As a site, reddit is passionately dedicated to free speech, so we expected considerable blowback. But the widespread outrage we feared never materialized, and the atmosphere greatly improved.

We discovered that the disruptive faction that bombarded climate change posts was actually substantially smaller than it had seemed. Just a small handful of people ran all of the most offensive accounts. What looked like a substantial group of objective skeptics to the outside observer was actually just a few bitter and biased posters with more opinions then evidence.

Negating the ability of this misguided group to post to the forum quickly resulted in a change in the culture within the comments. Where once there were personal insults and bitter accusations, there is now discussion of the relevant aspects of the research. Instead of (almost comically) paranoid and delusional conspiracy theories, we have knowledgeable users explaining complicated concepts to non-scientists who are simply interested in understanding the research. While we won’t claim /r/science is perfect, users seem happy with the changes made.

Like our commenters, professional climate change deniers have an outsized influence in the media and the public. And like our commenters, their rejection of climate science is not based on an accurate understanding of the science but on political preferences and personality. As moderators responsible for what millions of people see, we felt that to allow a handful of commenters to so purposefully mislead our audience was simply immoral. http://grist.org/climate-energy/reddits-science-forum-banned-climate-d
eniers-why-dont-all-newspapers-do-the-same/
]


L.A. Times:
Quote:

**The L.A. "Times" has not gone as far as cutting off comments (something the deniers clearly noticed, based on the more than 100 comments posted to Tuesday's op-ed). But when it comes to what the paper's editors will print, letters from climate change deniers are no longer under consideration.

"Simply put, I do my best to keep errors of fact off the letters page; when one does run, a correction is published," said Thornton. "Saying 'there's no sign humans have caused climate change' is not stating an opinion, it's asserting a factual inaccuracy." http://www.cbsnews.com/news/la-times-cuts-off-climate-change-deniers/]


Popular Science:
Quote:

***It wasn't a decision we made lightly. As the news arm of a 141-year-old science and technology magazine, we are as committed to fostering lively, intellectual debate as we are to spreading the word of science far and wide. The problem is when trolls and spambots overwhelm the former, diminishing our ability to do the latter.

That is not to suggest that we are the only website in the world that attracts vexing commenters. Far from it. Nor is it to suggest that all, or even close to all, of our commenters are shrill, boorish specimens of the lower internet phyla. But even a fractious minority wields enough power to skew a reader's perception of a story, recent research suggests.

A politically motivated, decades-long war on expertise has eroded the popular consensus on a wide variety of scientifically validated topics. Everything, from evolution to the origins of climate change, is mistakenly up for grabs again. Scientific certainty is just another thing for two people to "debate" on television. And because comments sections tend to be a grotesque reflection of the media culture surrounding them, the cynical work of undermining bedrock scientific doctrine is now being done beneath our own stories, within a website devoted to championing science. http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-09/why-were-shutting-our-co
mments?dom=PSC&loc=recent&lnk=1&con=why-were-shutting-off-our-comments-
]


Researchers at George Mason University ( http://lsc.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Anderson_JCMC_prepub.pd
f
) found that "when it comes to online commenting, throwing bombs gets more attention than being nice, and makes readers double down on their preexisting beliefs." The magazine mentioned climate change articles as the main platform for these comment bombs.


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Thursday, December 19, 2013 11:04 AM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE


"Shrill, boorish specimens of the lower internet Phyla"

That's just excellent, intellectual condescension in action.

As a lurker of this and a few other contentious forums, I cant possibly imagine who they might be referring to

/sarcasm overload

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 11:15 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


AGW = Young Earth Creationism .

But carry on with your cult. It's cute.

*ETA-

Quote:


Are Rappy, Jongs, and BDN all the same person?



No. There actually are more intelligent, independent, conservative thinking Firefly fans than just I. Who knew ?

The Earth stopped warming well over a decade ago. The coldest recorded temp on the planet was registered this past summer in Antarctica, surpassing the previous record from 2010.

The planet is not warming.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 11:29 AM

STORYMARK


On a similar note, Huffington Post just ditched anonymous commenting - now you have to verify your identity through Facebook.

The number of hateful, mis-informed right-wingers spewing BS plummeted almost instantly.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 11:50 AM

BYTEMITE


...Really? Because, I might not be on facebook, but I know people who are, and I was under the impression that crazy political rants were common place there despite the lack of anonymity.

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 12:08 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
...Really? Because, I might not be on facebook, but I know people who are, and I was under the impression that crazy political rants were common place there despite the lack of anonymity.



Oh, they're certainly still there. Its just that their numbers have dropped considerably.

Sure, there are people more than happy to spew their bile, and put their name on it. But there are whole lot more who did it from behind the curtain.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 1:53 PM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE


Also, as noted from the Reddit info, these people create numerous aliases to post under to make it appear there are more of them than reality would indicate.

Thus, lose the anonymous posting, lose a numerous amount of haters, as one hate post per hater is far less than the internet norm.

Are Rappy, Jongs, and BDN all the same person?

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 2:09 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by BlueHandedMenace:
Are Rappy, Jongs, and BDN all the same person?


Of course, but you already knew that Niki.

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 2:23 PM

BLUEHANDEDMENACE


Not the first time Ive been called Niki's sockpuppet on here, probly wont be the last, if I post again.

U will believe whatever you like obviously, but even tho its patently false, frankly I consider it a compliment, given her intelligence level and social awareness.


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Thursday, December 19, 2013 2:39 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Just wanted to see if you liked being dismissed as a sockpuppet.
Believe it or not, it is quite possible to have more than one conservative as part of a group.
Believe it or not, it is quite possible to have more than one progressive posting as multiple personalities as well.
In fact, it has happened in this very forum.

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 2:42 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BlueHandedMenace:
Also, as noted from the Reddit info, these people create numerous aliases to post under to make it appear there are more of them than reality would indicate.

Thus, lose the anonymous posting, lose a numerous amount of haters, as one hate post per hater is far less than the internet norm.

Are Rappy, Jongs, and BDN all the same person?



There was that thread a while back where folks were posting their real picture. While not everyone participated, of course, I don't think a single one of our resident wingnuts mustered the courage to show their face.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 2:45 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BlueHandedMenace:
Not the first time Ive been called Niki's sockpuppet on here, probly wont be the last, if I post again.



I always find that amusing.

Some got caught sock-puppeting, and were ID'd for using the same phrasing, sentence structure, and other tell-take signs.

Now, the wingnuts think they're being smart by calling any on the left that happen to share views "sock puppets," despite glaring differences in writing style, wording, etc.

And they don't get that its just another thing to laugh at them over.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 2:48 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
There was that thread a while back where folks were posting their real picture. While not everyone participated, of course, I don't think a single one of our resident wingnuts mustered the courage to show their face.


Eureka! that must mean we are all the same person!
Or we all lack courage.
Or we were all afraid of the camera stealing our soul.
Or we were all too self conscience of our appearances after your lovely visage went up.
Or...

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 2:58 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BIGDAMNNOBODY:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
There was that thread a while back where folks were posting their real picture. While not everyone participated, of course, I don't think a single one of our resident wingnuts mustered the courage to show their face.


Eureka! that must mean we are all the same person!
Or we all lack courage.
Or we were all afraid of the camera stealing our soul.
Or we were all too self conscience of our appearances after your lovely visage went up.
Or...



Not what I said, but then, it's you. Why should I expect you to actually read?

Once again, I applaud you for living up to your name, while wondering what exactly you get out of being so deliberately stupid...




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 3:19 PM

BYTEMITE


Why would anyone post pictures of themselves on the internet?

Facial recognition programs make this an utterly TERRIBLE idea.

Not to mention why do you want to know what they people you're talking to over the internet look like? Chances are the answer will not please you.

Sometimes I see parents post pictures of their children and I think, "No, what're you doin? Internet Predators are a real thing. Stahp!"

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 3:28 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Why would anyone post pictures of themselves on the internet?

Facial recognition programs make this an utterly TERRIBLE idea.



I've never really hid my identity very hard. I don't mind people knowing who I am in most cases.

Quote:

Not to mention why do you want to know what they people you're talking to over the internet look like? Chances are the answer will not please you.


I'm a visually oriented person, and like to put names to faces. I have many online friends who I know by sight, some Ive met in person, most not.

Quote:

Sometimes I see parents post pictures of their children and I think, "No, what're you doin? Internet Predators are a real thing. Stahp!"


With kids, I totally agree. Not an issue in my case, though.




"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 5:10 PM

JONGSSTRAW


I am Spartacus!

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Thursday, December 19, 2013 8:53 PM

NIKI2

Gettin' old, but still a hippie at heart...


Wow, Thank you Blue; given yours is a voice I respect, that is high praise indeed!

I've never had any problem posting my picture, videos of me and my dogs, or personal information on line, and in the nearly twenty years I've been on the internet, on forums, in e-mail and elsewhere, it's never once come back to bite me in the ass. Certainly there is personal information I've never shared, but for the most part, I've got nothing to hide, and given my absolute abhorrence of sickpuppies and my opinion that anyone who needs them is beneath contempt and a coward, the idea that I would stoop to using one always amuses me.

"I have many online friends who I know by sight, some Ive met in person, most not" goes for me as well, in fact, I've had numerous people I've met on line visit me (one from as far as Denmark, twice), and two have lived with us, one for over four years and the other still here. They've all been enriching experiences.


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Thursday, December 19, 2013 10:17 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I am Spartacus!

LOL!!HAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH!!!

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Friday, December 20, 2013 10:15 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I am Spartacus!

LOL!!HAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAH!!!


Oh Antonius, you silly singer of songs you.

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Saturday, December 21, 2013 9:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Are rappy, jongs and BDN the same person?

Not sure, their "fist" is different. But I have my serious questions about rappy and "zit", "Zit" only appears after rappy gets his ass handed to him, and then only in "stupid-rappy" mode. I think while it's impossible to consistently behave smarter than you are, its easy to occasionally behave stupider than you are, and ZIT sure occupies that "stupid" end of the spectrum!

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