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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
6IX- Rappy wants us to think that he's just like the rest of us, but the reality is, he got his money the old-fashioned way: he inherited it. Rappy is full of bull. We all know that, so pay him no mind.

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their beliefs, understand the nub from which everything else springs. Like a lot of things, it prolly has to do with a personal experience. Our most enduring lessons are the ones most deeply felt.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's only been repeated several times.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
It's only been repeated several times.

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ALSO RAPPY

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Well, since you suggested that we should be like the old west (as you saw it), where people lived and died by their own efforts and luck... not much money, no insured banks, little law, no roads. and no industry ... I thought you were making a broad-brush "get rid of government" proposal. If not, in what areas do you think a government SHOULD interfere? And why?

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You have the chance to explain what YOU think is a "decent society". The floor is yours! But yanno, if you refuse this opportunity to discuss your viewpoint, you will be cementing your reputation as a lightweight coward. So, grab the bull! Carpe diem!

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Well, since you suggested that we should be like the old west
- Siggy

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Nope. I never said nor implied any such thing.

Swing, miss. And quite frankly, if you can't get THAT right, then why should I even bother ?

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Swing, miss. And quite frankly, if you can't get THAT right, then why should I even bother ? ... Well, you started with a * false premise, as to what I meant and what I said. ...I feel no need to " play along ".... Feel free to admend [sic] your question, or not.

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You can't open the book of my life and jump in the middle.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Thanks for your reply. It was informative.

I do sometimes wonder, what will it take for people to say 'enough!' Or will we be like the Easter Islanders - clinging to our ways even as we fall off the edge of survival.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Most people here already despise the "you" that they've seen so far. How can it possibly get worse?

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You didn't build that! - Implies that all the effort you put forth wasn't of YOUR doing, but in reality, was a product of " The Collective ". With that sort of outlook on life, the West would have never been explored or tamed. The frontier may have never exceeded past the Mississippi valley. America would not be America were it not for far sighted, free thinking INDIVIDUALS. -rappy


[So] As far as YOU'RE concerned, the government should get out of money-printing business. Get out of the business of protecting copyrights and patents. Stop negotiating international trade deals. Stop insuring banks or maintaining roads or educating the workers of tomorrow or investing in blue-sky research. Should have never "subdued" the Natives, or toppled reformist governments elsewhere. In other words, allow EVERYONE the ability of make it on their own, without government interference. Correct?-signy



Waiting for an answer from rappy, proposer of "individual hard work" and government non-interference. -signy


As far as YOU'RE concerned, the government should get out of money-printing business. Get out of the business of protecting copyrights and patents. Stop negotiating international trade deals. Stop insuring banks or maintaining roads or educating the workers of tomorrow or investing in blue-sky research. Should have never "subdued" the Natives, or toppled reformist governments elsewhere. In other words, allow EVERYONE the ability of make it on their own, without government interference. Correct?- signy

Nope. But keep telling other people what THEY believe, because that's all you frelling want to hear anyways.-rappy

Well, since you suggested that we should be like the old west (as you saw it), where people lived and died by their own efforts and luck... not much money, no insured banks, little law, no roads. and no industry ... I thought you were making a broad-brush "get rid of government" proposal. If not, in what areas do you think a government SHOULD interfere? And why? (Gets in car to run errands and some popcorn, will be back later.) -signy

Nope. I never said nor implied any such thing. Swing, miss. And quite frankly, if you can't get THAT right, then why should I even bother ?- rappy


You have the chance to explain what YOU think is a "decent society". The floor is yours! But yanno, if you refuse this opportunity to discuss your viewpoint, you will be cementing your reputation as a lightweight coward. So, grab the bull! Carpe diem! -signy


Hmmm... and yet, you're still evading my question. I'll make deal with you: If you engage in honest and on-point discussion of my question, I'll engage in honest and on-point discussion about your chart. Of course, I get to decide whether you're being honest and on-point enough. -signy


seems a bit vague. Tidy it up a bit, please ? -rappy

Here, I'll quote myself, quoting myself.

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Well, since you suggested that we should be like the old west (as you saw it), where people lived and died by their own efforts and luck... not much money, no insured banks, little law, no roads. and no industry ... I thought you were making a broad-brush "get rid of government" proposal. If not, in what areas do you think a government SHOULD interfere? And why?


You have the chance to explain what YOU think is a "decent society". The floor is yours! But yanno, if you refuse this opportunity to discuss your viewpoint, you will be cementing your reputation as a lightweight coward. So, grab the bull! Carpe diem!

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I have actually copy-pasted this question three (or more) times by now, and asked the same question with alternate wording a few more times. signy

Well, you started with a false premise, as to what I meant and what I said. I replied, stating clearly that i had said no such thing as you claim I had, and just left it at that. As you continue to work your " question " from an imaginary position , which doesn't belong to me, though you seem to think it does, I feel no need to " play along ". -rappy

Because I already amended my question. I asked you to correct and expand on that point. Since you say that I don't understand you, I'm waiting for you to tell me where and how I'm wrong. The floor is, literally, yours. My ears are open. All I want to do is question you specifically on certain points you might bring up, to make sure that I DO understand what you're saying... and possibly grasp your essential assumptions. You're not "refusing to play along", you're simply refusing to explain your views. Yanno, bailing from a discussion. Maybe because you know you WILL be understood. What else am I to think?=signy


So, you're politely asking for the world according to ... moi ?You can't open the book of my life and jump in the middle. -rappy

Nope, I can't. Nobody can. But YOU can provide an intro and an explanation. In fact, the ONLY person who can do that is you. And unless you do, everyone else will misunderstand you. I can't promise that people will like you or agree with you more, but yanno what? Most people here already despise the "you" that they've seen so far. How can it possibly get worse?-signy

Then that's a THEM problem, and does not concern me.-rappy

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First, drawing false conclusions from things I said is a real tough way to progress through a discussion.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

Bollocks. That is EXACTLY the province of governments. "Free trade" only comes into play when governments decide to create and sign "free trade" agreements; otherwise tariffs, import duties, and tax policies come into play. Please don't believe that ministers and presidents are helplessly wringing their hands about processes that are out of the control of governments... they are actively fostering these processes at your expense, because that's where their money is.

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I do believe there are global forces at play which are outside of government control.

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Unlike a lot of you on these boards, I don't see government as this big all powerful force that has complete control over their lives. I see them more as a bunch of chickens struggling to build their own henhouse.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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Unlike a lot of you on these boards, I don't see government as this big all powerful force that has complete control over their lives. I see them more as a bunch of chickens struggling to build their own henhouse.

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...Sort of. Yes, they're all idiots, but the analogy would hold truer if some were more fox-like and cannibalistic than the others, and instead of a henhouse, it's a machine that makes chicken pot pies.

We can call the more fox-like ones "corporate lobbyists" "military contractors" "intelligence agencies" and "politicians." And they're basically out to better themselves at the cost of the normal non-predatory chickens they're feeding into that machine.

But the predators aren't safe from each other, either, so they try to dismantle whatever the other chickens are working on while building up their own pieces.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:

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Unlike a lot of you on these boards, I don't see government as this big all powerful force that has complete control over their lives. I see them more as a bunch of chickens struggling to build their own henhouse.

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...Sort of. Yes, they're all idiots, but the analogy would hold truer if some were more fox-like and cannibalistic than the others, and instead of a henhouse, it's a machine that makes chicken pot pies.

We can call the more fox-like ones "corporate lobbyists" "military contractors" "intelligence agencies" and "politicians." And they're basically out to better themselves at the cost of the normal non-predatory chickens they're feeding into that machine.

But the predators aren't safe from each other, either, so they try to dismantle whatever the other chickens are working on while building up their own pieces.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
The government has fostered every single aspect of these "forces" since their inception: the creation and backing of currencies (sometimes by military force), the laws which govern corporations and profit, the development and backing of national and international banks and bank policies, the militarily-enforced inclusion of many nations into the capitalist hegemony, and the inking of free-trade agreements. Governments have been necessary, instrumental, or complicit is all aspects of the clusterfuck under which we now live. None of this would have been possible without them.

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What Will It Take for Us to Get Back to Being a Decent Society?

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At least three people have been killed in the Cambodian capital, Phnom Penh, after security forces opened fire on garment workers rallying for higher wages, according to eyewitnesses.

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The government of Bangladesh has deployed paramilitary forces to the industrial zone of Gazipur in its latest bid to quell the massive protests and strikes that have swept the second largest garment industry in the world over the last week.
Bangladesh's government, known for its cozy relationship with the country's notoriously low-paying and dangerous garment industry backed by numerous U.S.-based corporations, has held a series of meetings with factory owners and vowed to take more harsh measures to shut down the uprisings.

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RIYADH, Saudi Arabia—The government pushed ahead with a nationwide crackdown on undocumented foreign laborers in an effort to overhaul the labor market, sparking deadly clashes between Saudis and foreign workers here on Sunday.

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Istanbul, Turkey (CNN) -- After battling for nearly two days with tear gas, water cannons and pepper spray, Turkish police retreated from Istanbul's central Taksim Square on Saturday afternoon, allowing tens of thousands of demonstrators to pour into the space.

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Fifty miles southeast of the capital, private security guards working for Vancouver-based mining firm Tahoe Resources shot and wounded several local residents on Saturday in San Rafael Las Flores, on the road in front of Tahoe’s El Escobal silver mine. The mining company’s head of security was arrested while attempting to flee the country. A police officer and a campesino were killed during conflicts earlier this week. Through it all, demonstrations against the mining project have continued amid conflicting reports and government misinformation.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You might want to consider, among other things, how often government comes down violently on the side of the wealthy...

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that over time business and government have formed a symbiotic relationship.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Talk is cheap. And frankly, talking about how each of us plans to change things is a good way to give the enemy intelligence on how to stop us. Forgive me for declining your kindly worded encouragement.

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Honestly Byte... Haken IS Big Brother.

Everything we have posted here over the years has been thoroughly considered by the Republic every step of the way for the last 12 years at least.

If you believe in Haken, I have some real estate on the North Pole you might be interested in. Comes with a sleigh and some shiny reindeer. One of them even has a bright red nose.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
BOYCOTT BOTTLED WATER.

ANY KIND.

Water-bottlers are stealing clean water from populations who need it more. Yeah, I know... small steps. Baby steps. Start with that. Nestle will be pissed. It should be.

THINK OF MORE.

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Jack:

Please start making sense.

Love and hugs,

Everyone.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Now I'm going to get a little snarky, and not about the right wing (who everyone knows are just a bunch of tools) but about liberals. Because it seems that liberals are capable of asking the question What Will It Take for Us to Get Back to Being a Decent Society?. But when presented with specific examples of HOW our indecent society is being forced on us at gunpoint, appear to have no answers at all.

That's the difference between liberals and leftists.

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