REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

View of Iraq from grunt level

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Thursday, October 7, 2004 02:34
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VIEWED: 1435
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Tuesday, October 5, 2004 9:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


We always hear from the soldiers who support the war, believe in their mission, and say uplifting things about nation-building. But apparently not all is happy in happy-land. Here are some quotes:

Quote:

I went to Iraq with thoughts of killing people who I thought were horrible. I was like, "Fuck Iraq, fuck these people, I hope we kill thousands." I believed my president. He was taking care of business and wasn't going to let al Qaeda push us around.... Seeing dead bodies for the first time. People blown in half. Little kids with no legs. It was overwhelming, the sights, sounds, fear. I was over there from Jan'03 to Aug'03. I hated every minute.... So I get to do a second tour in Iraq and be away from those I love again because some guy has the audacity to put others' lives on the line for his personal war. I thought we were the good guys.

------------------------
In the few short months my unit has been in Iraq, we have already lost one man and have had many injured (including me) in combat operations. And for what? At the very least, the government could have made sure that each of our vehicles had the proper armament to protect us soldiers.

In the early morning hours of May 10..we were attacked with small-arms fire, a rocket-propelled grenade, and two well-placed roadside bombs. These roadside bombs nearly destroyed one of our Hummers and riddled my friends with shrapnel, almost killing them. They would not have had a scratch if they had the "Up Armour" kits on them. So where was [George] W [Bush] on that one?

It's just so ridiculous, which leads me to my next point. A Blackwater contractor makes $15,000 [£8,400] a month for doing the same job as my pals and me. I make about $4,000 [£2,240] a month over here. What's up with that?

Beyond that, the government is calling up more and more troops from the reserves. For what? Man, there is a huge fucking scam going on here! There are civilian contractors crawling all over this country. Blackwater, Kellogg Brown & Root, Halliburton, on and on. These contractors are doing everything you can think of from security to catering lunch!

We are spending money out the ass for this shit, and very few of the projects are going to the Iraqi people. Someone's back is getting scratched here, and it ain't the Iraqis'!

My life is left to chance at this point. I just hope I come home alive.
-----------------

People's perceptions of this war have done a complete 180 since we got here. We had someone die in a mortar attack the first week, and ever since then, things have changed completely. Soldiers are calling their families urging them to support John Kerry. If this is happening elsewhere, it looks as if the overseas military vote that Bush is used to won't be there this time around.

--------------------------------

As we can all obviously see, Iraq was not and is not an imminent threat to the United States or the rest of the world. My time in Iraq has taught me a little about the Iraqi people and the state of this war-torn, poverty-stricken country.

The illiteracy rate in this country is phenomenal. There were some farmers who didn't even know there was an Operation Iraqi Freedom. This was when I realised that this war was initiated by the few who would profit from it and not for its people. We, as the coalition forces, did not liberate these people; we drove them even deeper into poverty. I don't foresee any economic relief coming soon to these people by the way Bush has already diverted its oil revenues to make sure there will be enough oil for our SUVs.

We are here trying to keep peace when all we have been trained for is to destroy. How are 200,000 soldiers supposed to take control of this country? Why didn't we have an effective plan to rebuild Iraq's infrastructure? Why aren't the American people more aware of these atrocities?


---------------------------

MORE AT http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1319718,00.html



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Tuesday, October 5, 2004 10:18 AM

GHOULMAN


Can't wait for the whisper campaign to jump on you for this SigyM.

Thanx from me though . Say, isn't Michael Moore running letters like this on his website?

http://www.michaelmoore.com/

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Tuesday, October 5, 2004 2:57 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


" There are civilian contractors crawling all over this country. Blackwater, Kellogg Brown & Root, Halliburton, on and on. These contractors are doing everything you can think of from security to catering lunch! "

Contractors yes, civilians... Up for debate





" If I going to get killed for a word....
Then my word is Poon-Tang "

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Wednesday, October 6, 2004 3:25 AM

IAMJACKSUSERNAME

Well, I'm all right. - Mal


Does the oath of enlistment, which includes: "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice." < http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/faq/oaths.htm> and "Disloyal Statements" under Article 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which includes "attacking the war aims of the United States" < http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-12.htm> not prevent the volunteers to say things like this, especially if what they say is true?
--
I am Jack's username
Soldier letters < http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/dudewheresmycountry/soldierlet
ters/index.php
>

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Wednesday, October 6, 2004 5:49 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Seeing as the war aims were nebulous at best...

"It's about WMD. No wait, it's about terrorists. No... it's about removing a bad man from office who had evil thoughts. No wait... MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!"

Hmmm... in fact, since the mission WAS accomplished according to GWB I guess we don't have war aims anymore so I suppose that particular clause doesn't apply?


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Thursday, October 7, 2004 1:49 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
" There are civilian contractors crawling all over this country. Blackwater, Kellogg Brown & Root, Halliburton, on and on. These contractors are doing everything you can think of from security to catering lunch! "

Contractors yes, civilians... Up for debate




The US military has been using contractors for non-combat support at least back to the Vietnam war. The food service at MACV's Dozema Compound in Hue was contracted out to a civilian company when I was there in '72, as was the microwave relay network our teletypes used. I would guess that the military in your country (wherever that is) also has plenty of civilian contractors.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, October 7, 2004 2:34 AM

RABIT


Quote:

Originally posted by IamJacksUsername:
Does the oath of enlistment, which includes: "I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice." < http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/faq/oaths.htm> and "Disloyal Statements" under Article 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which includes "attacking the war aims of the United States" < http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl134-12.htm> not prevent the volunteers to say things like this, especially if what they say is true?

To my knowledge, the majority of these statements are fairly innocent. Stating facts and observations - so long as they do not communicate classified information - are not an issue. However, when someone makes comments that question the goals of our war, then they are treading on delicate ground.

Keep in mind, however, that none of these soldiers (that I saw, anway!) are promoting desertion, contradicting orders, or anything like that. They understand their situation and are willing to complete their obligation. They don't like it and don't agree with it, but they are doing it. Now, should they make comments like this? As long as they don't contradict the regs, they should be okay. However, as the Explanation of Article 134 of the UCMJ states, "Certain disloyal statements by military personnel... may, under the circumstances, be punishable under this article. Examples include... attacking the war aims of the United States..." A soldier can never publically make statements that attack the goals of a war. They can make observations as to the situation and state facts, but that is it.

I think that most of these soldiers are fine in what they've said. Telling family members that they think they should support Kerry is fine, as long as they don't accompany that with statements that they think that we're in there for, as one of the soldiers put it, "his personal war". (Yes, I think that one crossed the line.)

Now, personally, I think that Bush has done more damage to this country than any previous president, ever, but as former military I understand what you are saying, IamJacksUsername, and you are right that some of these guys are crossing that line. Most of them are okay, in my opinion, but there is definitely room for interpretation...

Rabit

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