Let's Not Wage War on Smokers..... by 6IXSTRINGJACK

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Let's Not Wage War on Smokers.....

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
UPDATED: Thursday, February 20, 2014 02:29
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Monday, February 17, 2014 3:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
onal concept of health on the arbitrary whims of a known lunatic

So, I wanted to go through this one at a time, starting with prohibition:

Many things were discussed like age-appropriate bans on addictive things, bans on manufacturers adding sugar (and excess salt while we're at it) to babyfood, and even taxes on items to change consumption patterns. No one has discussed universal prohibition (or if they have, it went by me).

When it comes to banning certain things in food, such prohibitions already exist and have made our food safer. No one adds lead or arsenic to food (anymore). Similarly, there are requirements for certain ingredients to be added to food, like iodine to salt, that have made our food supply more healthful.

But forbidding manufacturers from adding sugar and salt to babyfood isn't a prohibition on either. Parents are free to get out ye olde salt shaker and sugar bowl if they feel the need.

When it comes to looking at age-related prohibitions, alcohol and cigarettes are examples of existing ones. What current figures leave unanswered is 'would those numbers increase if there was no prohibition on young people purchasing these things?'

Right, I think we're on the same page.

This is not about prohibition, its about finding a way of making businesses accountable so they dont slowly kill us all.

Businesses have added crap to our foods for a long time, and its only legislation that prevents them from doing so.

Cocaine in your coca cola anyone? Life really would taste better.

Education I agree with, that's basically where counter advertising comes in. Packaging, ads. You use the tools of the marketing man. But that's one of Six's whinging. The education makes him feel vewy bad. Reminds him that he is killing himself slowly, and he doesn't like to be reminded.

Tobacco companies spend billions selling us bullshit. That smoking was cool and sexy. And healthy. All that sports advertising.

I sometimes marvel at the sheer naivity of some.... totally oblvious of the profound impact of marketing on our behaviour in our lives.

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Monday, February 17, 2014 3:50 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
This thread is also clearly rapidly approaching a point where no anarchist would WANT to participate, so have a nice day.

Amen.

That said, what yer missing in there, KIKI, is the difference between a SOCIAL prohibition and a LEGAL one.

The former is because of the individual choices of people, not mandatory, not really enforced, so much as change in behavior or values.
The latter is a smack-down from on-high which has never not once resulted in anything but an unmitigated fucking disaster.

Example: a lot less people smoke now, they don't care for it, don't want the deleterious health effects, and yanno I am okay with that, so long as they leave me the hell alone as long as I respect their own boundries.
Hell, who was it that mentioned offhand that it was perhaps not appropriate for drugstores to carry tobacco ?
Oh yeah, that was ME... point ?

On the other hand, Marijuana, and I need not really go into details there.

Difference between askin and a tellin, really it is, yes ?

Now if you back the asking up with real evidence, WITHOUT throwing on bullshit exaggerations and laughable claims which poison the well even if you did have a solid case to start with, it tends to stick in a generational sense, society moves along, sure - but you don't like it, it ain't moving FAST enough, and you want YOUR way, right fucking now and be damned to the free will of anyone else and lets spit on the whole notion of people being equal while yer at it.... well then society digs in it's heels in typically human obstinate fashion and fights you right back, not cause of the issue itself, be it whatever it is, but because YOU thought YOUR fucking will was somehow more important than theirs.

And I totally, fully, abso-fuckin-lutely APPROVE of that, wholeheartedly so.
So don't bullshit me, you wanna bend the bough, you do it with logic and reason, not force - or by that doing you wind up every bit as bad or worse as everything you ever claimed to stand against.

As for them charts, you make the assumption that people will be honest when you ask them about illegal activity - an assumption I don't share cause it's fucking laughable... and one that pisses me the hell off as it blocks ME from anything even remotely resembling mental health care cause even discussing half the shit that's winding me up would sent the little rodent squealing to some supposed force of law and order and spilling his fucking guts and be damned to privacy, which is something ELSE which has screwballed mental healthcare for the masses, that they cannot TRUST the personnel to KEEP THEIR FUCKING MOUTH SHUT.
Solve that problem, and you get a lot of ground towards sanity right there.

-Frem

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Monday, February 17, 2014 3:50 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Funny photo I found under 'Things go better with coke.'

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Monday, February 17, 2014 4:04 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So Frem

When it comes to abortion, you have to remember I was an adult when Roe v Wade was decided. I and my agegroup went through the before and after. So, yes, that graph is very representative of before and after. You may not like what it says, but it's accurate.

As for prohibition, it was definitely deeply unpopular, which led to its repeal. But while I didn't go through it, my mother, aunts and uncles, and grandparents did. There IS such a thing as knowledge passed along from generation to generation, amazingly enough. So yes, the graph is overall representative of the effects of prohibition.

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Monday, February 17, 2014 4:53 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Funny photo I found under 'Things go better with coke.'

I tried Coke once. I kept getting ice cube stuck up my nose.

This song wins any argument...

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Monday, February 17, 2014 5:14 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Tupac for life.

He was only a sub-clown in Digital Underground when I was 12 and loveed the critically bashed Dan Akroyd movie that year.

Not bad for a guy who was dead when this album came out.

Goddamn right he is dead. If I ever knew better you wouldn't hear it from me.

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Monday, February 17, 2014 5:31 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

My last "thug life" song.

l'il homies.

I know. It's amazing that I never saw the inside of a County Prison for at least a day or two....

If J or Luda did this I would have hated it. Nothing that Tupac did, even in his afterlife, was less than epic.

I still hang with some guys I knew from grade school, but any friends i made in my early 20's are pretty much non extant in my life.

He was dead when you all loved this song that "borrowed" from Bruce Hornsby and the Range......

It was fucking epic though. Totally worth it. :)

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Monday, February 17, 2014 6:04 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I'd be remiss if I didn't at least introduce Picture Me Rollin' to the Ladies of the RWED.

;)

Tupac would have taken my self-rolling habit and made an empire out of the practice.

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Monday, February 17, 2014 10:59 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Never got the appeal for Tupac, and probably never will.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Tuesday, February 18, 2014 4:18 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Frem, you're going to have to abbreviate your post into main points before I respond. I just can't get through your long ramblings.

One thing. Please find where anyone has mentioned prohibition. You are jumping off half cocked once again.

Feh, ya weren't happy with my little Edgar Friendly soundbite and wanted an explaination, and then when ya got that you weren't happy.

What the hell do you want from me ?
It's not something that goddamn SIMPLE, curse it all, and trying to pretend it is, that's why we wind up with disastrous knee-jerk policies which only make things worse.

And of course y'all don't SAY prohibition, not out loud, oh no, no more than the GOP would publicly admit their flat out racism - ain't what you SAY, it's what you DO, what you advocate for.
I could say, for example... we should reduce the food intake/allocation of certain people by 99% and then play all "But I never said to kill them!" and throw phony moral outrage when called on it, too.

Feh, anyways, I smell rodent all over this thread, and being once again ignored/strawmanned into futility, you can discuss it with yourselves...
With one exception, and if they chime in with a cogent response, perhaps.

-Frem

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Tuesday, February 18, 2014 3:24 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

You do tend to make assumptions as well, and then go on very long soap box rant.

I think that you see any talk of regulation and you assume that deep down its something that some of us are sneakily working towards. 'It's my cunning plan to eventually have smoking banned.' I don't think you read people's posts very clearly either. At least I'm honest when I say I find your long ones a challenge to get through.

You know, I'll be happy when smoking is all but non existent because people DONT WANT TO DO IT ANYMORE. Not because its banned.

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Tuesday, February 18, 2014 5:54 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
You know, I'll be happy when smoking is all but non existent because people DONT WANT TO DO IT ANYMORE. Not because its banned.

Now that I can work with, cause it's the same exact way I feel about packing firearms, with the additional caveat that in some professions it may be necessary, such as a park ranger, cause the Bear doesn't give a shit how reasonable you are.

Some of my "rant" there was about how we get THERE from HERE, specifically empirical examples of it actually happening in regards to food products, via demand creating supply.
Hell, I also pointed out where regulation would actually be useful.

But no, easier to just dismiss out of hand or strawman it due to intellectual apathy, rendering discussion futile.

Which is again, WHY I often just fling a snark laden soundbite instead.

-F

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Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:21 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Never got the appeal for Tupac, and probably never will.

That's fair.

All I have to say to that is if that you couldn't ever bring yourself to listen to extremely intelligent words that a black youth picked up and distributed to a beat to other black youth in Tupac, you will never appreciate rap in any form.

Shit I'm wit'cha. I ain't mad at 'cha. Got nothin' but love for ya. Do ya thing boy. ;)

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Wednesday, February 19, 2014 12:54 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
You know, I'll be happy when smoking is all but non existent because people DONT WANT TO DO IT ANYMORE. Not because its banned.

Please MD. Do not speak for me.

I understand, Spock, that it goes beyond your Vulcan reasoning, but I do enjoy the Paper I Cram full of tobacco to get the self-employed discount, I do, I do oh Sam I am.

I like to smoke them in a Park. I like to smoke them in the Dark.

I like to smoke them on a Train. I like to smoke them on a Plane.

I like to smoke them in a House. I like to smoke them with a Mouse.

Talk to me when you've ironed out whatever personal debt crisis you or your family is going through. As high and mighty as the all-knowing non-smokers are, I'd be willing to bet the rest of what's in my IRA that nobody else in here can run a budget surplus for an entire year on a household income of only 11.4k gross.

As blackened as my lungs are, you haven't even begun to grasp the financial catastrophe that will eventually fall around us when our debt is no longer good with the (NOT AMERICAN) Federal Reserve.

And we at AmeriCorp thank you for your continued Debt and your undying Patriotism. ;)

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Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:15 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

A reply to you too MD :)

Tell Rappy about it.

Real poetic Rap is just as musical as Bob Dylan and the Beach Boys.

I love all three of them :)

I know I've posted about meaningless uses of a GREAT classic or 80's song, but this one was totally worth it. It was used perfectly. I was in Kindergarten when the Mr. Mr. song was popular and I was 20, years after Tupac was dead, and it's one of the 2WO great songs that came out after he died.

Seriously Rappy, you should listen to some of his music.

Think of it as reading a book you're sure you wouldn't like, but you were almost embarrassed at how much you liked it after the fact.

I like much more of Tupac's "B-Sides" than nearly every CD I owned in HS before I got a double-speed burner for 500 bucks and made my own CDs :)

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Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:18 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Any Haters towards Tupac would do well to remember that he died 3 y3ars younger than I was when i started posting here a decade ago.

The more you hate him, the more power you give a black kid that died decades before he played "Fat 2Pac" in Vegas......

:)

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Wednesday, February 19, 2014 4:54 PM

BYTEMITE

Quote:
I'd be willing to bet the rest of what's in my IRA that nobody else in here can run a budget surplus for an entire year on a household income of only 11.4k gross.

Me.

Dreamtrove, though he's not here anymore.

CTS.

Frem.

You're not the only person around who's debt free. Keep your IRA though, you need it.

Smoke and drink all you want, I'm not stopping you. I think I know as well as anyone how desperate a person can get for some kind of escape from the quiet despair and dread that permeates most of our lives.

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Thursday, February 20, 2014 2:28 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:

Please MD. Do not speak for me.

I understand, Spock, that it goes beyond your Vulcan reasoning, but I do enjoy the Paper I Cram full of tobacco to get the self-employed discount, I do, I do oh Sam I am.

I like to smoke them in a Park. I like to smoke them in the Dark.

I like to smoke them on a Train. I like to smoke them on a Plane.

I like to smoke them in a House. I like to smoke them with a Mouse.

Talk to me when you've ironed out whatever personal debt crisis you or your family is going through. As high and mighty as the all-knowing non-smokers are, I'd be willing to bet the rest of what's in my IRA that nobody else in here can run a budget surplus for an entire year on a household income of only 11.4k gross.

As blackened as my lungs are, you haven't even begun to grasp the financial catastrophe that will eventually fall around us when our debt is no longer good with the (NOT AMERICAN) Federal Reserve.

And we at AmeriCorp thank you for your continued Debt and your undying Patriotism. ;)

I'm not speaking for you, I'm speaking for me?

I have no issue with people who choose to smoke, and I understand both its addictive qualities and the use of it for a crutch when things are tough. I dont want to inhale anyone else's second hand smoke, having blackened my own lungs in the past.

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Thursday, February 20, 2014 2:29 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Now that I can work with, cause it's the same exact way I feel about packing firearms, with the additional caveat that in some professions it may be necessary, such as a park ranger, cause the Bear doesn't give a shit how reasonable you are.

Some of my "rant" there was about how we get THERE from HERE, specifically empirical examples of it actually happening in regards to food products, via demand creating supply.
Hell, I also pointed out where regulation would actually be useful.

But no, easier to just dismiss out of hand or strawman it due to intellectual apathy, rendering discussion futile.

Which is again, WHY I often just fling a snark laden soundbite instead.

-F

Too bad. We might have had an interesting conversation, and had lots of common ground if you had chosen a different tack (tact?)

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