The beginning of a 10-year drought? by SIGNYM

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The beginning of a 10-year drought?

POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Sunday, May 25, 2014 02:15
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Saturday, May 24, 2014 7:25 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"In Signym's case, I'm curious why Signym goes from one Large event to another and tries to explain them very diligently and with some great deal of effort. It's as if she HAS to explain them. Why?"

Signy and I work in the same (very small) scientific field. Professionally, she's the one whose ideas last for 20 years (or more). It's her nature to think about real things, real forces, real consequences, and how to make it so that what you're doing today is meaningful and effective over the long haul. Changing the world is hard. Figuring out what is the right thing to do is harder. To do that you have to put in some considerable effort to understand what is going on in specific and meaningful terms, far beyond the gloss of 'oh that's bad/ good'. Gossiping over someone's frame of mind is very pleasant and easy - and vanishingly meaningful.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 7:27 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
I use to program in very, very basic code, html, and that was kind of a revelation for me. I've always felt that we each have our own set of human code - apart from our dna - mental source code.

Ayep, and I have always compared certain mental/political mindsets to little more than a set of GOSUB routines, cause they more or less are.
I am sure it's not been lost on you how many times I have pointed out that when you hand over your own free will to an agenda, respond to such "programming" that anyone who understands it can exploit it, nor how many times you've watched me jam up their mental works with just a few carefully chosen words or phrases (which is trolling sure, cause I do mean to 'wind them up' when I do that) and they never, ever learn from it, cause they've made the active choice to attrib +r and go all ROM on it.

Which means that even attempting to educate em is futile, thus why I dismiss them, usually with the flourish of winding them up that way to show the point.

I know a *lot* about 'mental programming', more than I ever wanted to, by virtue of having to untangle the screwed up psyches of people damaged so badly by this society, often early enough in their lives that such damage has rooted within their personality itself, and that is not an easy thing to mitigate, not by a longshot.

I've seen at least a little progress on the shit we do to youth that does that kinda damage, I've never quite let that whole "Kids-for-Cash" scandal go cause it's NOT an isolated incident, it's often policy, and one colluded with by local educational and social service institutions, deep roots there, you understand - which is why a recent Rolling Stone article caught my interest... finally addressing one facet of the problem.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-are-kids-being-tried-in-
kangaroo-courts-20140516
Finally: The acknowledgement of the policy of depriving them of counsel being ROUTINE, and not an anomoly..
Mind you, the article still softballs it, fails to point out how threats of arrest and retaliation are used to discourage counsel from representing them, and doesn't address the whole civil/human rights problem which'd solve "all of the above" in a short stroke, but it's SOMETHING.

See, we need the sanity to listen, to learn, to change, and if we never instill it, or wreck it out of people, if there's no empathy there to reach, then all of this is just fucking futile - we need bottom up solutions, not top down ones.

-Frem

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 7:39 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

So, back to the topic - Signy, Magons - FWIW a couple of years ago I spent DAYS searching the internet for California's water budget. You'd think this would be a well-tracked topic - how much rain falls, how much snow falls, how much goes into rivers, lakes, groundwater, evaporation - how much gets used and what does it get used for. I found a single document that covered that topic, but it may already be out of date. Of the precipitation that falls, 50% is 'allowed' to be 'wasted' (their words, I thought them very peculiar, as if maintaining the environment was a 'waste' of water resources). Of ALL the water used for human purposes in California - the 50% of precipitation that gets used, plus imported water, plus ground water - 80% goes to agriculture. 20% is 'everything else'.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

http://www.sanfranciscobay.sierraclub.org/yodeler/html/2010/05/article
5.htm
from 2000
43 MAF - amount of water withdrawn from imports, surface water, groundwater, and reused and recycled water for all human activities:

34 MAF - went to irrigated agriculture. Agricultural use varies considerably from year to year. Generally more is needed in low rainfall years when less total water is available;

9 MAF - went to "urban water use" - the water consumed by all residential, institutional, commercial, and industrial activities - all human uses other than agriculture. Total urban use has remained fairly steady.

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 7:59 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Preachin' to the choir, Sig?

Most of the people who read & post on this board are aware & responsible.
I, personally, am not denying the problems and am not driving "us" over
a cliff. Indeed, I'm the one who says, "Yeah, we're in trouble. Let's talk
solutions."

Ahh, but sig is UBER-aware. She sees all, knows all, has minions to back her declarations. Her opinions are undeniable inarguable FACT.

And yet she was incapable of breaking her co-dependence with Rap even after more than 5 years of hard evidence that he's a troll...

Take sig with a whole bushel of salt.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 8:00 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"In Signym's case, I'm curious why Signym goes from one Large event to another and tries to explain them very diligently and with some great deal of effort. It's as if she HAS to explain them. Why?"

Signy and I work in the same (very small) scientific field. Professionally, she's the one whose ideas last for 20 years (or more).

Minion.

Do you have ideas/opinions of your own?

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 8:02 PM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
I love this giant logic gap:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:

G, this is a topic that I find irrelevant, so much so that I will probably not post more than two or three posts on the point, and only just as far as I think I need to to make my point clear, whether your grok it or not.

And:

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But when presented with uncomfortable observations, most people not only fail to think about and discuss them, they actively retreat.

"I will probably post no more than 2 or 3 posts on the point..." and "when presented with uncomfortable observations, most people not only fail to think about and discuss them, they actively retreat..."

That's so you.

Ayup.

But the ever-right sig and her minion will never own up to it. Funny how similar she is to Rappy in the regard, hmm?

My goodness, could I be any more pointed with these posts over the past few days?

Gig is up, River.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 8:10 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Do you have ideas/opinions of your own?"

Yes, I've made a number of ON TOPIC posts stating my own observations and ideas.

Perhaps you might read them.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 8:25 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
My goodness, could I be any more pointed with these posts over the past few days? Gig is up, River.

MAL4
WHO????
Oh dear. I know you think you've discovered some deep secret but... Please, whoever you think I am, unthink it because it's not true. It's just me, and it's been just me for as long as I've been on the board. The fact that you've convinced yourself of something untrue doesn't speak well of your emotional involvement. If I brought this on, I apologize. If I did something or am doing something that precipitated this, tell me what it was so I can stop. I know of no way to convince you that I'm just me, but if there is a way (aside from revealing my personal ID) that would satisfy you, let me know.

G/MAL4

Quote:
"I will probably post no more than 2 or 3 posts on the point..." and "when presented with uncomfortable observations, most people not only fail to think about and discuss them, they actively retreat..." -signy

That's so you.- G/MAL4

Well, first of all, I have no idea of the point of your criticism. That's "so me" in what way? That I take your advice and refuse to post endlessly, trying to convince you of something that you refuse to be convinced of? (Because I seem to recall some significant number of critical posts on that flaw, no??) So be clear, and tell me what's "wrong" with my posts THIS TIME, ok?

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 9:41 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

AGENTR/OONJ/FREM

Wow, never had I had to explain myself to so many people at one time!

First of all, who ever said I was talking about "force"? You're absolutely right- I could never "force" anyone into this program because I don't have the power. But that power DOES exist. People are forced into situations all the time where their lives are cut short, their health and security compromised. That's what it means to be powerless, right? So, there is power, but not for this. Whatever is done will have to be done without power, and maybe even against TPTB.

We can always manipulate. Electricity and television, seriously. Not only do people have something ELSE to do in the evening, but a steady diet of soap operas of wealthy beautiful women with small families can model a new way of behaving. And think of the advertising! Very powerful.

Education is a great way to start too. It can always be billed as making an economy more attractive to corporations. It cuts across fewer cultural and habitual lines, and makes people more aware of their options (we hope. Unless it's just used to make people "fit for use" for industry).

Or we can pick up the pieces, one by one. It's a very slow process but it's well below the radar.

Or, people can just look around and change their minds about why their situation is the way it is. It's kind of a long shot, though.

I'm not preaching to the choir. I guess what I'm trying to do is figure out, hopefully with your help, as to whether or not there is a SYSTEMIC solution, because the problem (as I see it) is system-driven.

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 10:07 PM

CHRISISALL

Signy, count me as a fan.
Yo GO, girl!

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 10:18 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

But I've clearly pissed off a lot of people. Apologies to everyone I offended.

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Saturday, May 24, 2014 11:17 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I'm not preaching to the choir. I guess what I'm trying to do is figure out, hopefully with your help, as to whether or not there is a SYSTEMIC solution, because the problem (as I see it) is system-driven.

Sure there is, human rights for ALL humans - it really is just that simple.
Theoretically it is, mind you.

It's gettin it into practice which is the problem because all of our current power structures use inequality as their "fuel", so to speak.
Solution to that, topple the power structure, and not by cappin the would-be-tyrants cause them fuckers are a dime a dozen and easily replaced...

Nope, the real way to kick the power out from under would-be-tyrants is by depriving them of the minions they need to carry out their orders, cause without those yon tyrant is no more dangerous than a mugger, less so maybe cause they dun like getting their own hands dirty.
Way to do it - well in the case of those who serve from desperate necessity, ignorance, or psychological issues, is offer them a better deal, ain't too hard once it dawns on them that minions are kind of expendable and the loyalty expected up to down is never rewarded by reciprocity, if anything they exact opposite cause they'll be first under the bus if/when things go south.

And in the case of them who serve cause they want to, who knowingly and gleefully serve a destructive agenda of their own free will because it allows and encourages them to act on their own sick, sadistic desires...
Now THERE is where you hand out the chop, folks.

So, not very complicated at all, once you break it down, no.

-Frem

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Sunday, May 25, 2014 1:22 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, back to the topic - Signy, Magons - FWIW a couple of years ago I spent DAYS searching the internet for California's water budget. You'd think this would be a well-tracked topic - how much rain falls, how much snow falls, how much goes into rivers, lakes, groundwater, evaporation - how much gets used and what does it get used for. I found a single document that covered that topic, but it may already be out of date. Of the precipitation that falls, 50% is 'allowed' to be 'wasted' (their words, I thought them very peculiar, as if maintaining the environment was a 'waste' of water resources). Of ALL the water used for human purposes in California - the 50% of precipitation that gets used, plus imported water, plus ground water - 80% goes to agriculture. 20% is 'everything else'.

I'd have thought it would have been similar but surprised by the lack of stats available. I would have thought it was important to collect that data.

Thank god for the Australian Bureau of Statistics and its reliable data collection.

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Sunday, May 25, 2014 2:06 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

"Nope, the real way to kick the power out from under would-be-tyrants is by depriving them of the minions they need to carry out their orders ..."

I see it differently.

If people truly understood that there are BILLIONS of people like them living in various levels of misery caused by, at most, a few thousand - those few thousand would be swept before the tide as if they never existed, minions or not.

But that doesn't happen. And I think it's because to think so and act so would take those billions out of their existence from within their human realm. And their human realm is their place in their society as they know it. It takes a lot to move people out of their social schemas as they know them.

Now the fact that people are taught that - it's your caste, your role, your inability to rise in the meritocracy of capitalism - that's another story.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

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Sunday, May 25, 2014 2:15 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Magon's - the lack here of basic study of critical processes - never fails to boggle my mind.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

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