?y neighbor has put me in an ethical dilemma - what would you do? by 1kiki

It's a good thing I live next to people who are hard of hearing, boy we'd be in trouble...

Sometimes hubby throws fits, and seems to get off on having the neighbors possibly hear. Hasn't done it since he's been on the new meds, but no one has even noticed here. I think I'd be straight forward with the girl, maybe when you see her out by herself, go up and introduce yourself and then say that the reason you are introducing yourself is because you've heard a couple fights from their place, and ask if everything is ok with them. Depending on her reaction, if she gives you the sad face, you could offer help.

If she tells you to MYOB, well, at least you'll have peace of mind you tried.

People aren't perfect. They yell. Don't necessarily mean it's world war three. I do wish we'd been able to afford a therapist YEARS ago, and I think we'd both been happier...but... It is what it is *shrug.

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 5:58 PM

Wow, reading that story I am once again relieved to live in a place where domestic violence, common as it is, does not involve guns.

Ikiki, I'd do a bit of research. Is there a family violence agency in your area? Perhaps they can give you some advice or have some resources for you to pass on to the woman if necessary. Do the police have specialised family violence workers? Police do not always have to respond in the guns blazing/kick in the door way. Find out how the police respond to call outs in your area.

I'd also follow Wish's advice and be friendly to the woman and say hi. But to the man also. Classic perp behaviour is to isolate the woman from anyone perceived as being hostile towards them.

If you do hear disturbing noises or particularly gunshots, call the police. If confronted by either of them, innocently express concern that there had been a break in and ask about both of their wellbeing.

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 6:12 PM

Technically neighbors means more than just the people immediately next to the house in question. They could think it was anyone in the neighborhood.

It's a risk, but calling 9-11 is probably the right thing to do. If there was a gun shot at any point in time, that means the situation is escalating.

I have a crazy uncle and aunt who are always getting into physical fights with each other, and one time my aunt came to us with a story about something he did to her and even though we couldn't confirm it, we had no choice, it would actually have been against the law for us to not report it. And while I'm an insane chaotic anarchist jerk with a non-traditional sense of morality, I'm not going to jail for someone who does that to ANY woman, particularly someone who shares any of my blood.

It caused a big mess because he knew we were the ones who did it, that all had to be in the police report, and yeah, we were worried about our lives for a while. Especially because my aunt asked us to store some guns for her to keep them away from her husband. There was even a while that I got the weird sense he was staking out our house because I saw him around a lot.

You're a lot closer to the people in question my aunt and uncle live about 50 minutes away. But at the same time, we're still living.

You have to do what's right. And if you don't feel safe, then that's what officers of the law and barring that friends and family are SUPPOSED to help with.

(Side note: my aunt got back together with my uncle anyway... And they came and took back the guns. *face palm* but the guns were never ours so we couldn't keep them)

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 6:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
It's a risk, but calling 9-11 is probably the right thing to do. If there was a gun shot at any point in time, that means the situation is escalating.

Have you heard of this thing called the "NEWS"??
Calling the cops just makes things worse. Things always escalate and someone ends up dead.

I don't ever call cops unless I'm damn sure or I see blood...
Also, calling the cops and it's nothing means you prolly have ticked neighbors, and that's a 'nother whole ball of fun.

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 6:27 PM

The news is sensationalist Wish, you know that. There are millions of reports of domestic disturbances a year. Only a very small percentage ever end with a shoot out or someone's kid getting tazed.

Mine didn't end with a shootout either. And we're talking a situation with the gun-happiest and craziest nutcases you've ever met, and this is ME talking. My family is even MORE insane.

At some point, if someone is being physically abusive, and it's getting worse, something has to be done to stop the cycle or I guarantee you the person getting abused will be the one who ends up dead. And frankly, if worse does come to worse with an intervention, I value the life of the abused more than I do the one doing the abuse. If they try to get into a shoot-out with the police because someone objects to them beating the shit out of a woman then screw them.

And if you feel you can not physically intervene, then calling the police is the only thing you CAN do. Much as I hate the police. Much as I would agree with you that you shouldn't trust the police and they can make things worse. Unless kiki knows a Frem in her area she can call a favour in, there aren't too many other options.

http://www.safehorizon.org/index/what-we-do-2/domestic-violence--abuse
-53/domestic-violence-statistics--facts-195.html

Quote:
Most domestic violence incidents are never reported.

Help change the facts. Speak up, speak out, and make a difference for victims of domestic violence.

This isn't really a moral dilemma so much as a moral obligation.

If kiki's scared enough that she's asking a bunch of strangers about it on the internet, and if she says she's heard a gunshot, then shit be serious enough to act.

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 6:41 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

My instinct is to act. My caution weighs possible consequences. If it was just me, I wouldn't hesitate, potential consequences be damned. But what happens to me, happens to others. That's what gives pause.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 7:03 PM

Quote:

My instinct is to act. My caution weighs possible consequences. If it was just me, I wouldn't hesitate, potential consequences be damned. But what happens to me, happens to others. That's what gives pause.

And I get that. It was more than just my family and the two of them in the situation I was in. It was their kids too.

Your every instinct is screaming at you to act. If that's the case, then that means you think that there is a very real danger here.

There are people out there who are equipped to deal with danger.

Look, I'm just an idiot on the internet. I can't possibly know the situation, I can't know what you're feeling, or what's really going on based on hearing it described second hand.

Talking to them both in a non-confrontational way meant to keep them calm and relaxed to find out more information is a good idea. But if you hear gun shots again... Don't hesitate.

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 7:10 PM

IMO, I've been lucky & never lived next to a wife beater.

Pretty certain, the cops have shown up on their doorstep many times before
if their home is in earshot of neighbors. They Should Expect Cops.

Sadists need masochists & vice versa. In a sense, the Beatee is as responsible
as the Beater. She has to help herself.

If she finally leaves him ... he will probably track her. That's the rotten part.
Far as I know, our enlightened society doesn't address the problem of how
she truly can escape the dirty rotten bastard.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 7:31 PM

Quote:

Sadists need masochists & vice versa. In a sense, the Beatee is as responsible
as the Beater. She has to help herself.

On one hand, like I said, my aunt went back to that guy.

On the other hand, like I also said, I'm pretty sure that's how people end up dead.

She has to want it... But she also can't break away without help.

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:

IMO, I've been lucky & never lived next to a wife beater.

Pretty certain, the cops have shown up on their doorstep many times before
if their home is in earshot of neighbors. They Should Expect Cops.

Sadists need masochists & vice versa. In a sense, the Beatee is as responsible
as the Beater. She has to help herself.

If she finally leaves him ... he will probably track her. That's the rotten part.
Far as I know, our enlightened society doesn't address the problem of how
she truly can escape the dirty rotten bastard.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

You 've got some contradictory views happening here.

The 'she is responsible, she possibly enjoys it' view is an attitude that keeps women locked in cycles of family violence, because if they fear that's what people will say if they disclose.

You then go on to highlight one of the factors that keep women unwilling in such relationships 'if I leave, he'll track me down, things will get worse.' Part of the abuse is often threats. 'You'll never see the kids again.' 'I'll punish you' Often they do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Farquharson http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/it-was-five-years-ago-when-
darcey-freeman-4-was-thrown-from-the-west-gate-bridge/story-fni0ffnk-1226809665256 For a woman, or man, decisions to stay or leave abusive relationships are tough either way and they need non-judgemental support whatever they choose.

Whatever you may believe, many women do leave abusive relationships and go on to have good lives away from their abuser. It is possible to get stronger.

Police intervention is not always terrible and over the years response to family violence has become more sophisticated. I know that there are specialist family violence response units here and they can use a very gentle approach when dealing with such matters.

At the very least, ikiki, a neighbour who discharges firearms is a direct threat to your family, so I'd say act. But get some information on how to do it first.

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
The news is sensationalist Wish, you know that. There are millions of reports of domestic disturbances a year. Only a very small percentage ever end with a shoot out or someone's kid getting tazed.

I don't know how you can sensationalize calling for help and then ending up dead, which happens a lot by my count...The fact is there IS a percentage, and it shouldn't be happening, says something

As for the "shot" how do you even know it WAS a shot? I blow up all sorts of fireworks on occasion, m-80's and the like... Maybe he broke something and it was loud... Lots of things sound like guns...

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 8:41 PM

Quote Magonsdauhter: "You 've got some contradictory views happening here.

The 'she is responsible, she possibly enjoys it' view is an attitude that keeps women locked in cycles of family violence, because if they fear that's what people will say if they disclose."

OK. Maybe I deserve that misinterpretation. If I replace Masochist
with Victim, will that help?

I don't suggest she enjoys it; I know she doesn't. So how did she
end up with a Beater?

What I suggest is: The warning signs were there early in their re-
lationship and she "chose" to marry him anyway. And this no doubt
happened before she'd grown emotionally enough to even see her
choices.

Let's say she becomes aware of 2 things: 1. She doesn't deserve
this; & 2. He's not gonna change.

BUT -- while she blames him instead of herself, she's locked in. When
We Blame, we give Our Power away to the one we are blaming! It's
self-crippling.

One day maybe she looks in the mirror & says, "I am here. I am the
only one who will get me out of here." Evenso, she will need helpers
that she can trust. It's a nasty, delicate situation.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 11:21 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

I'm thinking the SOUND of a gunshot, whether that's what it was or not, would be suffice for a 9-1-1 call.

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Sunday, June 1, 2014 11:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Quote Magonsdauhter: "You 've got some contradictory views happening here.

The 'she is responsible, she possibly enjoys it' view is an attitude that keeps women locked in cycles of family violence, because if they fear that's what people will say if they disclose."

OK. Maybe I deserve that misinterpretation. If I replace Masochist
with Victim, will that help?

I don't suggest she enjoys it; I know she doesn't. So how did she
end up with a Beater?

What I suggest is: The warning signs were there early in their re-
lationship and she "chose" to marry him anyway. And this no doubt
happened before she'd grown emotionally enough to even see her
choices.

Let's say she becomes aware of 2 things: 1. She doesn't deserve
this; & 2. He's not gonna change.

BUT -- while she blames him instead of herself, she's locked in. When
We Blame, we give Our Power away to the one we are blaming! It's
self-crippling.

One day maybe she looks in the mirror & says, "I am here. I am the
only one who will get me out of here." Evenso, she will need helpers
that she can trust. It's a nasty, delicate situation.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

Oonj, you don't choose partners because they are violent. And people who use violence in relationships are not the sum of that behaviour. They can also be clever, creative, personable....

There's a lot of stuff out there on the cycle of violence, I suggest you have a look at it. This is a simple version of it.
http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/cycle_of_abuse.html

The question is not why does she stay, but why does he commit acts of violence. Always. When you ask the other way around, you are part of the problem.

I'd say its more self crippling to blame yourself for someone else's bad behaviour and that sometimes blame is warranted. Do you blame the dead for being murdered, for the victim of rape, theft, bashing for being a victim of crime? Why should it be any different just because when someone is in a relationship?

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Monday, June 2, 2014 4:02 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

When it comes to guns, my neighborhood is peculiar. This is a very old neighborhood, very settled, well established and pretty high-income. But there are a lot of places that are too steep to build, and open rural areas close by. Across the street is a steep wild ridge with a coyote pack living on it. Not even a quarter mile from my place is a horse stable. Consequently there are a lot of critters running around. There's not just mice, rats, moles, voles and squirrels. Not just opossums, skunks and raccoons. There's feral cats and bobcats, dogs running loose and coyotes, and every few years a bear. So sometimes, you'll hear a gunshot at night. People just get tired of the critters rummaging through their yard, again. A lot of what I recount including the gunshot I feel has a degree of ambiguity about it.

Aside from that, I have to say I'm humbled by all the posts of people offering their advice, experience and opinions to a random person on the internet. THANK YOU.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

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Monday, June 2, 2014 4:35 PM

Quote Magonsdaughter: "I'd say its more self crippling to blame yourself for someone else's bad behaviour and that sometimes blame is warranted."

That's Not What I Said.

I agree with the article you linked. It doesn't address my point at all.
This link from that page does address it: Why Domestic Abuse Victims Stay
http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/why_domestic_abuse_victims_stay.html

I've stated my point clearly. Let me try again.
Not all violent families are alike; here's one example:

The guy, the gal, both grew up in very uncomfortable families, no
love, no acceptance, no validity. No honesty, no fairness. No safety
for their feelings or their bodies. Just some real heavy-duty con-
frontations that make a deep lasting impression because they are
so painful. Emotional crippling. Bad conditioning. Not their fault.

The guy & the gal meet, date.
It started off like any other dysfunctional relationship. They both
have very low self-esteem, and this is the only kind of relationship
they know. At the gut level, social discomfort, tension, is their
comfort zone. At 1st their fights are verbal; but before long, he's
slapping her around. They break up briefly several times. The mutual
attraction is real & strong. Knowing how important they are to one
another, they both feel loved for the first time. They need each other.

They decide to solve their problems by getting married.

Before long, the beatings get worse. I don't know what the Beater
thinks & feels about it. But I think a lot, not all, of the Beatees will
finally want to get out. Can't take it anymore. She may realize that
he needs a periodic outlet, and his outlet is violence. She thinks of
the times when he beat the dog for no reason; it wasn't the dog's
fault. She realizes that his violence is not her fault; she changes
inside to a person who doesn't feel she deserves it. She didn't make
him mad: he's mad all the time. She's just a convenient punching bag.

She wants to stop getting beat up. She hates it, fears it. She knows
he will never stop. If she tries to leave, he will use force to prevent
it. He treats her like a possession that has no rights. She has to
find a way out. Because if she stays, nothing changes.

The Reason she has to be responsible for leaving the violence is:
If she doesn't, who will?

That is perhaps the best line I learned in therapy. I talked about
changes I wanted to make, and then said, "But I can't!"
Therapist: "If you can't, who will?"
I got it.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Monday, June 2, 2014 4:56 PM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
The Reason she has to be responsible for leaving the violence is:
If she doesn't, who will?

That is perhaps the best line I learned in therapy. I talked about
changes I wanted to make, and then said, "But I can't!"
Therapist: "If you can't, who will?"
I got it.

I used to think that way, but it has to be recognized how much more dangerous leaving can be if your partner is already violent in the relationship.

Stalking and murder can ensue. And it does. A lot. A frightening whole lot.

If you're already emotionally damaged, you may well find that overwhelming.

Obviously, no one can end that abusive relationship FOR the victim, but we may well want to consider that there might not be enough protection in place once they leave, that the problem doesn't end with breaking up but might in fact flare up to an inferno.

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Monday, June 2, 2014 5:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
The Reason she has to be responsible for leaving the violence is:
If she doesn't, who will?

That is perhaps the best line I learned in therapy. I talked about
changes I wanted to make, and then said, "But I can't!"
Therapist: "If you can't, who will?"
I got it.

I used to think that way, but it has to be recognized how much more dangerous leaving can be if your partner is already violent in the relationship.

Stalking and murder can ensue. And it does. A lot. A frightening whole lot.

If you're already emotionally damaged, you may well find that overwhelming.

Obviously, no one can end that abusive relationship FOR the victim, but we may well want to consider that there might not be enough protection in place once they leave, that the problem doesn't end with breaking up but might in fact flare up to an inferno.

It's more than that. It's just hard to disentangle yourself from relationships. I suspect that bad relationships take more untangling sometimes.

Quote:
The Reason she has to be responsible for leaving the violence is:
If she doesn't, who will?

True. But why all the judgement? It may take time for her to find the strength. Or maybe she just cant. Maybe she's been pummelled into submission. Laying that responsibility at her feet is simply paramount to blame.

Doctor to car crash victim - it's your responsibility to get better. Only you can do it.
Car crash victim - I'm in a coma, doc.
Doctor - when are you gonna stop with the excuses...

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Monday, June 2, 2014 5:09 PM

Quote AgentRouka: "Stalking and murder can ensue."

You're absolutely right AR. I know that.
Any help she can get from social services, courts, cops, will not be
enough nor timely.
She's pretty much responsible to create her own "witness protection"
type disappearance.

I, too, have read some stories about him stalking, her moving, him
finding her again.
A true to life horror story.

... oooOO}{OOooo ...

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Monday, June 2, 2014 5:17 PM

AGENTROUKA

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

It's more than that. It's just hard to disentangle yourself from relationships. I suspect that bad relationships take more untangling sometimes.

There is that, yes. But I wanted to point out that the barriers to leaving aren't always psychological only.

Because even if you have overcome that mess, the remaining barriers can be very solid indeed.

Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
A true to life horror story.

Well put.

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 3:53 AM

FREMDFIRMA

*sigh*
You can't save em all.
Nor can you in most cases save people from themselves.

But my reccommendation, and this comes after mulling it over a good while...
Contrive to walk past her, or be in her vicinity, and during such make deliberate, sustained eye contact - not aggressively, but sufficient to suggest that "you know", and then let HER reaction/response decide yours.

I figure you'll have a better idea where to go with it after that, and not one word even needs be exchanged.

-F

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 5:58 AM

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/out-of-tragedy-comes-change-20140603
-39gni.html

This is such a sad but inspirational story. I had to share. Admire this woman unbelievably.

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Thursday, June 5, 2014 3:12 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Don't automatically assume the guy is the "bad guy" because he's the one making the noise, or even if she's the one making all the screaming noises.... My question to you is either "have you watched too many Lifetime Movies?", or "don't you think you should watch more Lifetime Movies before you make a decision?"

You have absolutely no idea what is going on in that house Niki, truth be told. I understand that it's one's natural inclination to assume the man to be at fault given our media upbringing, but young women today growing up can be just as stone cold crazy. No offense intended.

My advice is to just ignore it and hope for the best, but I really don't care about other people's problems that aren't in my "realm". For instance, I don't even really know you but I'd care at least ten times as much for your well being as all but two families on my block.

For all you know, it's part of their "kink" and whatever they do to get each other off involves a lot of yelling and maybe even choking and gunplay on the extreme side.

I say, as long as they never bring it outside of the house then it's none of our business, and I would expect you to respect me in that same way since I would of you if we were neighbors.

Turn on a fan or put your TV 3 notches higher.....

Chances are, they're just having WAY better sex than you ever imagined. :)

Occam's Razor....

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Ockham%27s%20razor

Ball's in your court, Scully ;)

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Thursday, June 5, 2014 4:18 PM

ikiki, not niki

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Thursday, June 5, 2014 5:28 PM

Quote:
I understand that it's one's natural inclination to assume the man to be at fault given our media upbringing, but young women today growing up can be just as stone cold crazy. No offense intended.

My aunt in question was a running back in highschool, when girls didn't usually play sports.

She put my uncle in the hospital a few times and vice versa. I know full well that bitches be crazy, I'm one of the crazier ones. But there's some things a person can do that crosses a line. My uncle did that.

Quote:

Chances are, they're just having WAY better sex than you ever imagined. :)

Chances are they're not. You're overestimating the prevalence of a certain kind of fetish due to personal experience.

I can assure you, domestic abuse is a lot more common than BDSM. In fact the BDSM community is riddled with bad doms who don't actually use safe techniques and are outright abusive - word gets around.

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Thursday, June 5, 2014 7:23 PM

You have to ask yourself how people lived next door to monsters like that Castro and never cottoned on. Everyone minded their own business then, and hence the suffering that ensued.

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Thursday, June 5, 2014 11:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
You have to ask yourself how people lived next door to monsters like that Castro and never cottoned on. Everyone minded their own business then, and hence the suffering that ensued.

Yeah, but then you have to ask is it OK to go minding everyone else's business because of a few crackers?

If I've given you no indication I'm a nutter and I'm not affecting you and yours, you best mind yer own...is my philosophy....

I don't think I'd want anyone to go poking around their neighbors basements because I went missing, without due cause. They had due cause for Castro and the police ignored the complaints, btw...

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Thursday, June 5, 2014 11:52 PM

I'd say screaming and gunshots would be a reasonable excuse to stick yer nose in.

I know this might blow your mind, but in some places neighbours know one another and look out of each other. It's not compulsory/nor necessarily optimal to live a bubble of privacy.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 12:00 AM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Magons

When I bought the house it was as a newcomer. The people in the neighborhood were in their 50s-70s and had been living there for decades - all of their adult lives. But time took is toll, as did greed. Eventually many passed away, and the houses were bought, not as homes but as rentals. My neighbor family to the west and my household are two of the relatively few homeowners left. Most of the others are renters who come and go quite frequently.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 3:10 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

I tend to agree both with Frem and Rap (now there's a sentence you may never ever read again in your lifetime). What I mean is: Frem says to sidle up to the woman and make eye contact to let her know you know, and go from her reaction.

Rap says: Gunshot = 911 call

You could always tell the 911 operator that you don't want this to come back to bite ya in the ass. You could ask that the cops say to the "noisemakers" that they were on patrol and heard the commotion. This way you protect yourself.

Believe me, I've been there as well. The neighbors in my building, an apartment complex, were once very loud and violent. I thought one day, as I heard the "furniture being moved" coupled with yelling and screaming, that he would pitch her out the window. I actually thought, "well, one of the other neighbors will call. I'm not getting involved." The commotion calmed down and no one ever called the cops. That was scary because they lived directly above me.

As an aside, one day I heard the woman call out to her "husband" from their window "Love ya' honey" as he was leaving, I guess, for work one day. I found that particularly strange. But I vowed not to let that happen again.
They have since moved out. But a person can become a "victim" as well because that fear factor chimes in and freezes an otherwise compassionate human being from doing the right thing. You are paralyzed with fear, hence asking your internet neighbors for advice.

You have to ask yourself if you want to live like that. It's not easy.

SGG

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Friday, June 6, 2014 7:43 AM

Yeah, but, the time to act would have been when you thought you heard a shot- not weeks later. You call the cops and say "I thought I heard a shot a while back" they're gonna be all "so what?" Don't waste our time, ma'am...
Your neighbors are gonna deny like hell, and then get pissed at you for troublemaking, and that's REALLY fun. When I was a kid my idiot brother pissed off a neighbor kid and he dug traps and drew pictures of my dad with holes in his head and tacked 'em to our fence regularly. That's really is a whole 'nother level of "Gee, it's gotten uncomfortable living here"

And Magons, from what I hear people in Australia are neighborly folk mostly, and that's nice. I got a couple neighbors that are pretty civil, but I keep my distance because you just don't know anymore who's gonna go apeshite and waste their whole house AND you because they ran out of milk that day or something. It's only in the news EVERY DAY here...I think in general too, Americans just like boundaries more, and knowing where they stand.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 12:17 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

WISH,
I "get" being afraid of your neighbor if you live in a gang-infested neighborhood- hell, I very strongly advised a friend that she had to get out of her neighborhood because her mother and husband were being extorted, and she and her daughters were being followed. SHE was prepared to fight, but her youngest (autistic) daughter was very vulnerable and the rest of her family weren't up to living under constant threat of violence. (They moved, fortunately.) But in your case, being afraid of EVERYBODY is... well, I think it's a state of mind more than a reality. An uncalled-for fortress mentality can be indicative of a lot of things, none of them good.

1KIKI
I've been thinking about this on and off. The time for action has already passed. I agree with Frem, if you can somehow at least make eye contact with the lady before another event that would be helpful.

I think what you're thinking about is what to do IN FUTURE, given your bad hearing. Your interpretation of what you're hearing is probably being scrambled somewhat by fear of necessitated action and consequences if it's an abuse situation. Having REALLY bad hearing myself (oh, and crappy eyesight as well. Getting old = no picnic!) I know how easy it is to misinterpret/ misunderstand events. Sometimes wild laughter sounds like crying. Yowling cats sound like babies. Not being there myself (and even if I were, not sure that would help) is there ANY OTHER explanation that fits the noises you've been hearing? If not, then you owe it to your neighbor lady to try to make contact.

My impression is, if you "think" you heard a gunshot, it probably wasn't. Guns are pretty loud, whenever I heard a nearby gunshot I KNEW it was a gunshot, especially from close by.

But I'm not an expert, so those of you who have more experience with guns - are there any domestic sounds that might equal the sound of a gunshot?

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Friday, June 6, 2014 12:55 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
You have to ask yourself how people lived next door to monsters like that Castro and never cottoned on. Everyone minded their own business then, and hence the suffering that ensued.

Yeah, but then you have to ask is it OK to go minding everyone else's business because of a few crackers?

If I've given you no indication I'm a nutter and I'm not affecting you and yours, you best mind yer own...is my philosophy....

I don't think I'd want anyone to go poking around their neighbors basements because I went missing, without due cause. They had due cause for Castro and the police ignored the complaints, btw...

Thank you Wish :)

And by "Gunplay" MD, I don't at all mean gunshots. I don't even mean loaded guns at all.

"Rape Fantasies" are undoubtedly weird. In the heat of the moment when you're feeling so good you just want to do anything to keep that feeling going, especially these days, things can get downright weird.

It was only afeter hooking up with some seriously "strange" and beautiful women that I started to realize that I was pretty damn "vanilla".

Women are crazy, yo!

:)

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, June 6, 2014 12:56 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
ikiki, not niki

my bad ikiki

Do Right, Be Right. :)

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Friday, June 6, 2014 2:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But in your case, being afraid of EVERYBODY is... well, I think it's a state of mind more than a reality. An uncalled-for fortress mentality can be indicative of a lot of things, none of them good.

How many would it take for you before it IS called for?? Because if you aren't paying attention, if you aren't racking up the numbers- it's ALREADY gotten serious. And I've already said I've been stabbed in the back by DOZENS of people. Over NOTHING. If I matter soo little to the people who know me, imagine how little I matter to the people who DON'T know me...

Pretending that the majority of folk are shining happy people holding hands is...willful delusion. Everyone has their own agenda, and they may be nice to you to your face, but I but as sure as the sun shines- you turn your back they are NOT so nice. We descended from war-like bumps on logs, we are STILL there, despite manicured lawns and layers of paint.

When we figured out hubby had Asperger's, I got into the whole micro-expression thing and reading body language so I could help him. If you wanna keep believing people are what they are at face value, DON'T go there. House was right, everyone lies. Everyone manipulates.

Maybe in a couple hundred...uh... thousand years or so... maybe when humanity grows up...

'Till then, I will treat EVERYONE with suspicion, until they can prove otherwise, and even then I'm gonna sleep with one eye open.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 2:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

You were "stabbed in the back".

Obviously, not literally otherwise you wouldn't likely be here, and posting. So, were you maimed by the stabbers? Did you lose much money? Were you in fear for your life, your health, or your money? I mean- how serious WAS this backstabbing?

I've been stabbed in the back LOTS of times. Been picked on and bullied. Been trash-talked and isolated and harassed at work (by various people at various times for various reasons). Also, done some back-stabbing myself. Mostly, it amounted to nothing. I'm still here. So are you.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 6:40 PM

ikiki and wishimay

I understand that its not always possible to have a good relationship with your neighbours, but you can lose the mindset of 'dont want people sticking your nose in'

Wish, depends on where you live how neighbourly people are. I've lived in places where no-one speaks to one another much, but they were shorter term rentals. Some places people are in and out of each others pockets. It's not like that here.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 8:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You were "stabbed in the back".
Mostly, it amounted to nothing. I'm still here. So are you.

Well, I learned something from it and you didn't. Such is life.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 8:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
wishimay

I understand that its not always possible to have a good relationship with your neighbours, but you can lose the mindset of 'dont want people sticking your nose in'

I'm friendly. I speak to people and manage to appear concerned, and weigh in on community concerns. But I am not responsible for their, or the other 8 billion lives on this planet, nor would I want to. If I thought someone needed help I would help in such that I was able and if I thought a kid was being hurt I'd be all over that, but I will NOT micromanage my neighbors. I don't care about their house, their shrubbery, their hobbies, their jobs or whatever. That's on them. Satisfied now???

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Friday, June 6, 2014 9:32 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Well, I learned something from it and you didn't. Such is life.

Yes, but we learned different lessons, apparently. I've always known that people approach other people with a certain amount of self-interest. Sometimes their needs are driven by whatever it is that's driving them, having nothing to do with me, and if they feel the need to stab me in the back then all I can do is protect myself. I don't expect them to change, or get irritated with them because they are the way they are. Such is life indeed.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 9:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:

I'm friendly. I speak to people and manage to appear concerned, and weigh in on community concerns. But I am not responsible for their, or the other 8 billion lives on this planet, nor would I want to. If I thought someone needed help I would help in such that I was able and if I thought a kid was being hurt I'd be all over that, but I will NOT micromanage my neighbors. I don't care about their house, their shrubbery, their hobbies, their jobs or whatever. That's on them. Satisfied now???

You could really do with taking the needless hostility down a peg. I think we're actually on the same page.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 10:56 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Yes, I'm thinking about next time.

The reason why it's hard to say if what I heard was a gunshot is b/c it sounded more like an M80 (to me). And it's hard to say if it came from the back of the house, the back yard, or the alley. Also, as I pointed out, gunshots aren't rare around here.

I've been trying to catch sight of the neighbor lady. But our paths never seem to cross no matter how hard I try and put myself in the way. As for meaningful looks, I don't know how I could NOT. I can't begin to think of passing by with a bland don't know nuthin about nuthin blank stare. It's just not in me.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 11:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

You could really do with taking the needless hostility down a peg.

You mistake bluntness for hostility. The whole "Lose the mindset" thing didn't help you any, though. Might as well say "you need to think my way."

Not too crazy about you saying I need to take the hostility down a peg either. Maybe y'all don't get it that I don't much care for people telling me what to think or act. It tends to make me tell people where they can GO.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 11:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I don't expect them to change, or get irritated with them because they are the way they are. Such is life indeed.

If one stabs you in the back and you do NOTHING about it, how will they learn NOT to be backstabbers??? What is to be gained by doing NOTHING?

Do you just not value your own back enough to stand up for it??

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Friday, June 6, 2014 11:29 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Sometimes, spending time trying to be responsible for teaching other people 'life lessons' is just a waste of your time and a drag on your life.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 11:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Sometimes, spending time trying to be responsible for teaching other people 'life lessons' is just a waste of your time and a drag on your life.

Sometimes. And sometimes it's TOTALLY freakin' worth every second.

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Friday, June 6, 2014 11:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:

You mistake bluntness for hostility.

As someone who also tends towards bluntless, I can relate.

Eh. I might not agree with you all the time, about things you've said to and about specific individuals, or all of your attitudes towards various subjects, but from everything you've ever said it sounds like you've got your reasons to be grumpy now and then.

Of course, other people are just as valid and justified in how they respond to that. Speaking as a huge bitch who's burned most of my bridges because of it, despite being younger than any of you.

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Saturday, June 7, 2014 12:09 AM

Just because you are wired up to blow your top at regular intervals, meh, don't make you a bitch. For what it's worth, I think we all know by now you don't mean it most times... Like I said, Hubby blows his top all the time, but I know it's just frustration and he don't mean it... He's always sorry later.

As to teaching people a lesson, lemme tell you about an incident here the other day. My kiddo takes puppy out for a walk, sees neighbor girl and goes over to talk. Neighbor girl's brothers' buddy walks out the door and sees puppy, proceeds to threaten to stab puppy TWICE, THEN PULLS A POCKET KNIFE OUT... I call neighbor lady and tell her, she says "Oh he was probably just messing around" I say "You might wanna tell him I AIN'T LAUGHIN, and that was in NO WAY APPROPRIATE HUMOR!!!"

Now I coulda let it slide, and he could've went home and stabbed your pet to death, but hopefully he knows better now. See the effect you have on others not learning from stabbing you in the back?

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Saturday, June 7, 2014 12:52 AM