REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

I bet this wouldn't have happened if she was wearking a burkah...

POSTED BY: 6IXSTRINGJACK
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Wednesday, June 11, 2014 8:44 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Does anyone really deny this though ? I mean, you go the first part right, 'bout making it obscure. Rape use to be called Rape. Now it's called 'assault' which also includes all manner of unwanted contact.

Basically, any man who had 'bad , adult feelings ' for a female, and she didn't want those , from him, is now an assault.


Rape is still called rape.


Never hear that in the US MSM. I occasionally listen to Auzzie radio, and love how they give descriptions of perps by ACTUALLY TELLING FOLKS WHAT THE PERPS LOOK LIKE! It's amazing.

If a blonde white woman is seen shoplifting, they'll say ' blonde white woman'. Same goes if it's a black man seen exiting a building, prior to a suspicious fire... yep. 'black man seen leaving... '.

Wish they still did that here.

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Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:48 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


I love how this thread could be so simple ("Yeah, that guy should definitely not have touched her") and instead so many people seem compelled to add qualifiers:

- it's the woman's fault, she was totally asking for it
- his action was harmless, so we shouldn't be talking about it, at all
- women elsewhere have it worse, so we shouldn't be talking about it, at all
- arguing against groping drunk naked strangers is the same as denying personal responsibility
- men are "lions in a den", but women need to stop being stupid and be responsible, because we certainly can't ask men to do that
- if you want to talk about "women's issues" you need to pick a nice and easy example that everyone can agree on (so you don't have to spend so much time on that unimportant crap)
- this woman's behavior after the fact is somehow deeply relevant to what others may think of her being groped (i.e. she is some kind of team mascot)
- "Sexual assault" is a purposefully vague term designed to oppress men because it makes it difficult to distinguished between bad forms of unwanted sexual contact and totally acceptable forms of unwanted sexual contact that men are simply entitled to if women act a certain way.

The "vast majority" of women drink to get laid? For real? 1) How is that possibly true, 2) is that invented fact supposed to make it okay when people grope drunk women? Because "looking to get laid" means being fair game to anyone within groping distance?

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Wednesday, June 11, 2014 10:03 PM

CHRISISALL


This is the crazy that is our world now.

Basically: Do NOT touch my car, my food or my ASS without permission.

This is apparently a very hard concept for some.

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 12:58 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
men are fully capable of self-control. Some just choose not to exercise that self-control. .



I think I've made it CLEAR that I think PEOPLE aren't capable of exercising self control as evidenced EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY OF THE YEAR. Once AGAIN, read some NEWS!!! There are entire COUNTRIES that have zip in the self-control department!

Sounds like THAT is what makes you mad too, expecting that in this "day and age" we should be, but we're not. We haven't evolved. Deal with it. Expecting people to exercise self-control just because YOU want them to and because they should isn't going to do a damn thing, genius...

By all means, pass the laws and prosecute the people until we catch up. The rest of us will have to look out for ourselves the best we can. Sure as HELL not gonna let my kid dress like a hooker just so we can prove my point. And it would be proved. Cause people are PREDICTABLE!!


Were you too busy foaming at the mouth to properly read what I wrote? I get that I'm not your favorite person in the world, being mean to poor Six, but geez.

Why are you trying to turn this into a false dilemma where you can either have a social expectation that men are in general fully capable of self-control OR we make choices to protect ourselves in an imperfect world?

I said we should not ignore reality.

But neither should we surrender to the just as false idea that men just can't help it. That is just as blatantly wrong. But that wrong idea affects how we deal with reality, whether we call something inevitable and harmless or whether we don't. Whether we give respect to victims or not. What we teach boys and girls is acceptable or not. Right now we send the message that women are to blame when they are assaulted. That's sick.

And no, I don't think history is a linear march from primitive to sophisticated. But since you cite "countries", considering how stark the differences between some societies are, how big a difference can exist in the same country within mere decades, you really don't think our social expectations play a role? People are capable of a wide range of behaviors, as they have always been. Self-control and choices play a role in that all the time.

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 6:49 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
This is the crazy that is our world now.

Basically: Do NOT touch my car, my food or my ASS without permission.

This is apparently a very hard concept for some.


It is. Children have to be taught to share, but also the concept of asking for permission, and ownership. It can be confusing. When dealing with young , ill mannered and inebriated adults, they often revert to their toddler stage, 'see something, grab something. '

No, I'm not a sociologist, or even a psychologist, but I play one on the interwebs.

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 9:33 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:


But neither should we surrender to the just as false idea that men just can't help it. Right now we send the message that women are to blame when they are assaulted. That's sick.

you really don't think our social expectations play a role?



I may not blame them for the assault, but I sure as hell can question their actions in certain cases, and so should society...
"Hey, why were you half naked in a crowd of drunken horndogs?? Ya don't think mebbe that was a questionable decision??"

**If the clothes you wear (or lack thereof) are attention seeking you probably shouldn't be surprised when you get negative attention.**

The fallacy lies in teaching ANYONE they are safe in a crowd, and especially when half naked, be it guy or girl... One out of four people has a mental disorder, and therefore may not be capable of acting rational or controlling impulse. Standing in a crowd of people SHOULD make you be on guard. Let your hair down someplace you are safe, not in the middle of a bunch or drunken idiots...

Edit: Hubby just brought up a valid point. "If you are standing in a crowd you protect yer wallet, doncha? Well, same thing applies to yer ass and for the same reason..."



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Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:03 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Tell me how many women you know do not drink to get "in the mood?" Really? Nobody? Less than half?


I find myself a bit troubled by the kinds of women many of the guys here on the board associate with.

Do you all just go to bars to pick up the chicks or something? Because they're probably not drinking to get in the mood.

Let alone how having to have a drink to "get in the mood" suggests that the women in question find the activity deeply unpleasant on some level. Drinking is what you do to numb the pain and block shit out.

Or maybe this is some kind of generation gap, where the women drink a priori during dates because they're "obligated" to engage in coitus.

That would explain most of this conversation, though Jack... I think Jack is just messed up and hangs out with equally broken people.

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:08 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
This is the crazy that is our world now.

Basically: Do NOT touch my car, my food or my ASS without permission.

This is apparently a very hard concept for some.


I stole a french fry when you weren't looking. It was very good. *katsup'd*

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:16 AM

WISHIMAY


Sex is better when you drink, hon. Relaxes you so you can orgasm with no problems, inhibitions are lowered so your less likely to have a problem with your partner, and more likely to give into the more freaky fantasies hiding in the back of your brain...

*cough* If you'll 'scuse me, wow do I need to go pick up some Rum Chata, and arrange for a babysitter

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:18 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
"Hey, why were you half naked in a crowd of drunken horndogs?? Ya don't think mebbe that was a questionable decision??"


Because she herself was drunk, and unable to make sound decisions, and as such stripping herself of clothing and dancing seemed like a good idea at the time? What are we saying here, don't get drunk or you'll get raped?

Now, I don't drink, and maybe I don't have all the insights the rest of you do on this matter. But based on observations of others and various depictions in the media, I had thought half-naked dancing was fairly common drunk behaviour. And I would also like to think that most of us could agree that the consequences of someone getting drunk shouldn't be rape or sexual assault. Whether or not they had all their clothes on at the time.

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:25 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
better when you drink, hon.


That's unscientific. Women who take drugs to improve their "relations" tend to take STIMULANT drugs. Because STIMULANTS. Increases the sensations. Alcohol is a DEPRESSANT, it's like putting a haze over everything.

I knew a guy on a messageboard with a intersexed girlfriend, and they took meth as their primary enhancement. Granted, he was an idiot, but still, what you're saying doesn't actually make sense - the intensity of the climax is directly related to the tension that exists beforehand. As a woman you don't WANT it relaxed.

A guy on the other hand might actually want to drink because anxiety redirects the blood elsewhere among other issues. But it would also dull their excitement in the end.

I'm again suspecting a generation gap may be at work here. That or race.

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 10:26 AM

THGRRI


Agreed. Yes,determined by consensus.

si shen

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:07 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Tell me how many women you know do not drink to get "in the mood?" Really? Nobody? Less than half?


A lot? Most of them? Where do you get these ideas?

The women I know and have known primarily drink in the company of other women, actually. And not to get in the mood for same-sex relations, either. Then there's the glass of wine for dinner, the occasional unwinding beer after work or on a summer weekend afternoon. They drink to enjoy the buzz.

I'd say very few women drink to "get in the mood". They might combine social drinking and looking for casual sex in a certain setting, and a couple having a fun evening might enjoy some alcohol to enhance the mood but I can honestly not think of a case where a woman I know went for alcohol specifically TO have sex.

And I can't imagine why they would, unless it was to suppress serious discomfort with the idea.

Especially since I agree both with Wish and Byte.

A little alcohol can enhance sex because it dulls distracting thoughts (money, job, kids, illness, any stress) but a lot of alcohol actually makes it less great because it dulls sensation, coordination and just makes you sleepy rather than energetic.

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:19 AM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:


That's unscientific. Women who take drugs to improve their "relations" tend to take STIMULANT drugs. Because STIMULANTS. Increases the sensations. Alcohol is a DEPRESSANT, it's like putting a haze over everything.



Stimulants don't increase sensation, they increase blood flow. I feel LESS when I'm hyper, kinda like getting a cut you don't notice 'till later. Going slower increases sensation during sex because your brain has more time to process and react. Stimulants just get you there faster, not necessarily BETTER... But, maybe some people like that.

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 11:25 AM

THGRRI



Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Tell me how many women you know do not drink to get "in the mood?" Really? Nobody? Less than half?


If there is thorough research showing all or even most women drink as a prerequisite to sex please share it. I have no knowledge why women do what they do. I only know if I do something why I do it.


si shen

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 1:07 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
because your brain has more time to process and react


Uhh... Your brain reactions are slowed too.

And no, stimulants like amphetamines don't just increase blood flow. Amphetamines interact with dopamine at recreational doses. Ecstasy also does this.

If you're affecting neurotransmitters and the actual nerve impulses as well, it's not just a matter of being "sped up." There's also emotional and sensory effects to that as well, which is why the behaviour of people under the influence of those drugs can be erratic.

Alcohol AND stimulants are also universally neurotoxins and it's generally unwise to use them regularly at doses high enough to induce a behavioural effect. Not that this particular fact ever seems to stop anyone.


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Thursday, June 12, 2014 1:23 PM

WISHIMAY


All I know is couple drinks+me and hubbs= guaranteed good time. For BOTH of us...

He takes a stimulant and he's done two minutes later.

I'll take 20 minutes of fun slow haze over two minutes of "trash can" sex any day.

'Course, with both of us being on the spectrum and things tend to have opposite effects it could be we are different, but not what I hear from other girls I know...


How'd we get on this subject again??

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 2:25 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Well don't look at me, who needs intoxicants when you've all manner of Tantric freaky to play with...

That said, chronic pain and booze is a bad combo, aye - and of course the chronic pain leads to stress, which leads to heart problems, which leads to more stress and pain, and so forth and so on till the bottle is the only comfort a lotta them people got left cause of the asinine puritannical notion that suffering is good for you, which while soundly debunked by science and even the most basic use of logic and/or empathy, makes a handy excuse for dodging the bullet of the rapacious and murderously fanatical DEA and their "War on (some) Drugs"...

Ain't that they're unaware it's killing them, it's that they want to not suffer, and if the "cost" is a quicker death than days of screaming agony, cheap at the freakin price, you know ?

Of course, in Jacks case it's all about trying to deny that his own choices lead him down the merry path, chasing things he thought he wanted instead of the things he really did, and now that his misery has reached a nadir he's caught between attention whoring and masochism in between bouts of the bottle, which makes him too pathetic for me to get any enjoyment out of flailing his dumb ass so I pay him little mind, if any.

As to peoples behavior having anything to do about the state of someone elses clothing, I call bullshit, always have - blaming others for ones own lack of basic self control is inexcuseable, I don't go around choke-slamming people for being ignorant malicious gits who spread nothing but hate and misery, no matter how much I'd like to, so y'all can keep yer damn hands to yourself, I figure.

-Frem

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Thursday, June 12, 2014 2:48 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Ain't that they're unaware it's killing them, it's that they want to not suffer, and if the "cost" is a quicker death than days of screaming agony, cheap at the freakin price, you know ?


Yeah, and I understand that. I even understand people who don't have chronic pain and drink. Or people who have a lot of emotional pain and drink. Or people who are really bored like Jack.

I suppose I should have said more that the neurotoxin thing is why I don't drink... Although considering at this point I require caffeine to remain conscious, I also suppose I'm being kind of a hypocrite. Caffeine isn't really all that healthy either.

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Saturday, June 14, 2014 3:17 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:


I'll take 20 minutes of fun slow haze over two minutes of "trash can" sex any day.

'Course, with both of us being on the spectrum and things tend to have opposite effects it could be we are different, but not what I hear from other girls I know...

Not familiar with trash can sex, nor spectrum in this context. Can you clarify please?

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Saturday, June 14, 2014 3:23 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
better when you drink, hon.


That's unscientific. Women who take drugs to improve their "relations" tend to take STIMULANT drugs. Because STIMULANTS. Increases the sensations. Alcohol is a DEPRESSANT, it's like putting a haze over everything.

Alcohol lowers their inhibitions. That is their reason, from what they've told me, and I've seen.

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Saturday, June 14, 2014 3:25 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Tell me how many women you know do not drink to get "in the mood?" Really? Nobody? Less than half?


I find myself a bit troubled by the kinds of women many of the guys here on the board associate with.

Do you all just go to bars to pick up the chicks or something? Because they're probably not drinking to get in the mood.

Let alone how having to have a drink to "get in the mood" suggests that the women in question find the activity deeply unpleasant on some level. Drinking is what you do to numb the pain and block shit out.

Or maybe this is some kind of generation gap, where the women drink a priori during dates because they're "obligated" to engage in coitus.

That would explain most of this conversation, though Jack... I think Jack is just messed up and hangs out with equally broken people.

I haven't been in every state in the union, but I still must wonder, what the heck state are you in?

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Saturday, June 14, 2014 3:28 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:


But neither should we surrender to the just as false idea that men just can't help it. Right now we send the message that women are to blame when they are assaulted. That's sick.

you really don't think our social expectations play a role?



I may not blame them for the assault, but I sure as hell can question their actions in certain cases, and so should society...
"Hey, why were you half naked in a crowd of drunken horndogs?? Ya don't think mebbe that was a questionable decision??"

**If the clothes you wear (or lack thereof) are attention seeking you probably shouldn't be surprised when you get negative attention.**

The fallacy lies in teaching ANYONE they are safe in a crowd, and especially when half naked, be it guy or girl... One out of four people has a mental disorder, and therefore may not be capable of acting rational or controlling impulse. Standing in a crowd of people SHOULD make you be on guard. Let your hair down someplace you are safe, not in the middle of a bunch or drunken idiots...

Edit: Hubby just brought up a valid point. "If you are standing in a crowd you protect yer wallet, doncha? Well, same thing applies to yer ass and for the same reason..."



Thanks, Wish. You and your hubby seem the most reasonable participants in this discussion, and feminazis hearing the facts from a woman is far more palatable than from a guy.

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Saturday, June 14, 2014 5:35 PM

WISHIMAY


I'm mildly Dyspraxic, and hubby has Aspergers which are both part of the autism spectrum. In certain ones, and not all, things like caffeine tend to have the opposite effect in that it make them calmer (because parts of their brains are running full tilt which is why they have problems dealing with things outside their brain because the inside is running overtime on other things) and the caffeine tends to bring everything up to speed and improve overall function.

Jack lives in the same damnable state I do, but because he's a guy and he drinks doesn't tend to notice how nuts people are, but I been told that the other half of the state is slightly better, so I dunno... I've noticed that when people are forced to co-habitate in large numbers (depending on the dominate DNA patterns of course) that the social intelligence tends to rise slowly, and all I know is these people don't do social OR intelligence o.O

As for the last thing, thank you. I stopped worrying years ago about the messages I send out because it tends to confuse everything else. Look to yerself. I think some people take "Do unto others as you would have done to you" as a personal challenge in that they really want everything done in the way that they would have it done....for them.....
Humans....

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Saturday, June 14, 2014 6:04 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Quote:
Drinking is what you do to numb the pain and block shit out.


Really? I didn't get that memo.

Is that how the " professionals " do it ?

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Saturday, June 14, 2014 6:08 PM

REAVERFAN


Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

You are wrong. This is sexual assault because the Feminazis say so. The whole purpose of making every conceivable slight grouped as sexual assault is to diffuse and lessen the onus of rape. This woman may someday wake up and need easy money and say "hey, I was raped by those two guys, they need to give me money and go to jail." That is the way it works. Rape accusations must be used as a weapon for ugly women to control mankind.

What' the difference between these women and those who wear low-cut cleavage boasting tops and then whine that men are looking at her hooters?
Or women who only want to date guys who beat them up, because that is the only way they know "he really loves me, and makeup sex is great after a good fight" but then complain that he beats her?
You are wrong. Groping anyone, however they're dressed is sexual harassment. You are a very ugly person.

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Saturday, June 14, 2014 6:09 PM

REAVERFAN





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Saturday, June 14, 2014 7:29 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

You are wrong. This is sexual assault because the Feminazis say so. The whole purpose of making every conceivable slight grouped as sexual assault is to diffuse and lessen the onus of rape. This woman may someday wake up and need easy money and say "hey, I was raped by those two guys, they need to give me money and go to jail." That is the way it works. Rape accusations must be used as a weapon for ugly women to control mankind.

What' the difference between these women and those who wear low-cut cleavage boasting tops and then whine that men are looking at her hooters?
Or women who only want to date guys who beat them up, because that is the only way they know "he really loves me, and makeup sex is great after a good fight" but then complain that he beats her?
You are wrong. Groping anyone, however they're dressed is sexual harassment. You are a very ugly person.


It's a psychopath, best not to make eye contact. Back away slowly....

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 1:45 AM

WISHIMAY


If you walk into a ghetto with hundred dollah bills pinned to your shirt, does ANYONE really think you gonna walk out of that ghetto with what you came in there with?

Only a naïve fool...

If you walk into danger knowing the risk, but you do it anyway, does calling you a "victim" fix anything? Are you any less of an idiot? Do you really think that girl thought her mostly naked ass would go untouched when she was six inches away from a row of horny idiots????

This isn't about compassion, this is about common sense. His sin was lust and narcissism and hers was exhibitionism and lack of self protection. She made the choice. Did she deserve the consequences? NO. Are there consequences, regardless? USUALLY.

*PRETENDING PEOPLE ARE SANE IN THE FACE OF OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY IS THE DEFINITION OF INSANITY*

By all means, keep on getting outraged when people do what they've been known to do since the beginning of time...


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Sunday, June 15, 2014 2:04 AM

BYTEMITE


Whoa now. You might be surprised to know that sometimes I think a victim totally does deserve what happens to them, especially if they're a particular level of jerkass, stupid, or both.

I just don't really think we can blame someone whose drunk for whatever actions they take that might lead to someone else doing something. That's like blaming someone with crippling schizophrenia for being homeless. I'd only feel comfortable blaming them if they were also a total shithead.

And when you're talking sexual assault, rape, or murder, that's a next level up from your example of getting mugged. In fact, I'd even score rape and sexual assault on another level from even murder, because I can think of some people who deserve murder, but no one who deserves that level of humiliating violation. You don't have to live with murder.

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 2:34 AM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


C'mon now, if we stopped blaming women for being harrassed and raped, then the men who do it would have to take responsibility. But they can't you see. If they get aroused, they'll just rape ya. It's in their nature. Horny little bastards. I mean really, they are so uncontrollable and uncontained, they really should all either

a) live on an island somewhere
b) come back to society only if they have their gonads cut off

because to expect them not to grope and rape and hurt is really asking too much.

Boys will be boys.

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 3:03 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


Wish

That whole train of thought is why women are made to wear burqahs. Because men just can't control themselves, women must be made to cover themselves from head to toe. And never go out in public without a male relative. And submit to the requirements of their owners ... I mean, fathers, brothers, husbands and sons. Just so, yanno, the men aren't tempted beyond their feeble limits into sin. That's why women must be treated like voiceless chattel. To protect men from themselves.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 5:36 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Exactly right

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 6:12 PM

WISHIMAY


From what I've seen there MUST be a gene in many Arabic and Indian men that has hormones that make them less intelligent and more aggressive when they get aroused... (relics of primitive man)

They can go to work, be married, raise kids, graduate college, and when not aroused KNOW that rape is wrong, but the second it goes up and that predatory chance happens their IQ goes DOWN... (even if they DON'T know it is wrong they still know they go to jail if they get caught so they know they SHOULDN'T do it)

I think it's the same reason why the Germans went after the Jews. They had to know that Jewish people are less apt to fight back...

Like I said, you can expect people do MANY things, but they are going to do whatever they want to do. I can expect when I tell my kids' teachers about her learning disability and I print out the info, and I bring it in there and explain that they should be able to get it. They don't. Only ONE teacher in the last six years has tried.


By NOW every man in our society KNOWS rape is wrong. But it still happens!
WHY IS THAT??

1. Either they lack the mental process to fully realize it to begin with.
2. Something else happens that we don't fully understand when they get horny.

You can stand there and smack their hands when they do something they KNOW is wrong, or you can protect yourself. I choose to be proactive. You choose to rail against the horrors and the flaws in human thinking or physiology.

WHICH ONE MAKES MORE SENSE???

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 6:18 PM

WISHIMAY


I really think you all think that

fully formed human=capability of rationality in all cases.

YOU COULDN'T be further from the truth if you tried.

Yes, they should still be punished for wrongdoing, but sometimes there are hidden processes at work in DNA, in brain working and chemistry that come into play that we just don't fully understand...

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 6:25 PM

WISHIMAY


The same argument also applies to women too. Women are less likely to fight back, more likely to back down, more likely to poison people instead of other kinds of murder, less likely to be tall, more likely to do better in all subjects in school than men, ect...

Why is it such a stretch that men are more likely to be unreasonably sexually aggressive as a result of survival of the fittest??

Eons ago, the men who conquered more and were more aggressive spread more DNA and enhanced their own survival. It's not that hard for me to believe that we are still seeing those traits even today...


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Sunday, June 15, 2014 6:56 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.


That whole thing about aggressive men and their DNA - it's an idea dating from the late 1800s and easily challenged with a little logic. Can you imagine a female way back in evolutionary past - prey to all those sexually aggressive males? So there she is - one in the oven, one in her arms so she's not going to be doing much, one barely toddling and putting EVERYthing in the mouth, two playing at will and MAYBE one or two older ones actually helping her gather food. How do they get enough food to survive?

It's not how many children are BORN that determines whose DNA gets passed along - it's how many of those children SURVIVE to pass that DNA along ... and so on generation to generation.

The whole idea of a rapist gender isn't sustainable in evolutionary terms.

OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 7:45 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
From what I've seen there MUST be a gene in many Arabic and Indian men that has hormones that make them less intelligent and more aggressive when they get aroused... (relics of primitive man)



OMG I can't believe you posted such shit.

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 8:38 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
fully formed human=capability of rationality in all cases.

YOU COULDN'T be further from the truth if you tried.

Yes, they should still be punished for wrongdoing, but sometimes there are hidden processes at work in DNA, in brain working and chemistry that come into play that we just don't fully understand...


I think the main problem with this argument is that we're equating "gets drunk and takes their clothes off" irrational lack of control with "gets drunk and rape-y" irrational lack of control.

One of those we absolutely SHOULD prosecute, regardless of the events or "enticements" that might have led up to that situation. The other one doesn't hurt anyone, except maybe our eyes and sanity.

Also, there's a pretty major difference in culture, so while tendencies might exist in a lot of the male population, it's more that certain cultures are a lot more permissive and encouraging that kind of behaviour than certain racial genes are more primitive and rapey.

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 8:45 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
Why is it such a stretch that men are more likely to be unreasonably sexually aggressive as a result of survival of the fittest??


Actually, no. Rape has very little to do with producing children. Many rape victims die from their injuries, and there's also a suicide risk from the emotional trauma. And, well, Todd Akins is full of shit and you CAN actually conceive from a rape, but the incidence of successful implantation and pregnancy from rape is actually a little bit lower compared to a regular pregnancy (again due to the trauma from the event - lots of body resources going to recovery, very little towards sustaining a pregnancy).

But this difference is actually peanuts really - both the incidence rates of pregnancy are incredibly low, in that a non-rape scenario is about 3%, and a rape scenario is 1%.

What is most likely to produce children is actual relationships persisting at least two years, as young infants are rather hard for a single parent to deal with, and two parents (or a community) trading off responsibility is a lot more successful a model. Not to mention, you have to have sex with the same person a LOT of times to actually cause a pregnancy, so a one time rape just doesn't cut it.

Your scenario and evolutionary biology theory would be more correct if very young humans were capable of running and feeding themselves early on and required little parental involvement or allocation of resources.

The best a rape might do is mitigate the rapists feelings of inferiority or evolutionary dead-end-ness, but really that's probably not on the top of their minds when they're doing it.

The biggest problem with rape is more a tendency for rage and entitlement issues to transform abruptly into sexual aggression, or for both parties to be too drunk to recognize a clear "no" signal from one of the parties and stop. Neither of which are intrinsically a male problem.

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 8:57 PM

WISHIMAY


Aaaand yet there's this "Rape conception happens between 25,000 and 32,000 times each year in the U.S"

Yeah, no way those genes didn't become exponentially dominant. And this is in our "rational, modern society" BTW



And as for Magons, I could care less what you think I will be proved right in time.

If you don't get that there are vast genetic differences in different cultures.... WOW ARE YOU PHYSICALLY BLIND!

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 8:59 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Aaaand yet there's this "Rape conception happens between 25,000 and 32,000 times each year in the U.S"


Compare regular conception rates and numbers. Those numbers are tiny.

Second, you're saying rape is intrinsic to males genes, and now you're arguing that "rape genes" are being propagated through the population by rape. You're contradicting yourself. Pick one or the other.

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 9:00 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:


If you don't get that there are vast genetic differences in different cultures.... WOW ARE YOU PHYSICALLY BLIND!


Apparently less than 1% difference now means "vast."

And that's comparing us to CHIMPANZEES.

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 9:08 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:


It's not how many children are BORN that determines whose DNA gets passed along - it's how many of those children SURVIVE to pass that DNA along ... and so on generation to generation.

The whole idea of a rapist gender isn't sustainable in evolutionary terms.



A Russian woman gave birth to 69 children in the 1700s. She holds the record for the largest number of children born to one mother. The wife of Feodor Vassilyev gave birth to 16 pairs of twins, seven sets of triplets and four sets of quadruplets between 1725 and 1765. 67 of them survived infancy.

Larger families only increased your chances of survival THEN. More people to grow or find food, more chances of having allies...

If we produce 30,000 children of rape a year NOW, imagine how many there were in medieval times...

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 9:12 PM

BYTEMITE


You're still not correctly judging those rape pregnancies relative to the number of regular pregnancies, even assuming that there are rape genes (there aren't).

Secondly, the fact that rape rates can decrease indicates a flaw in your argument that men just rape. If they had no control in it, the rates would never change.

And lastly, a declining frequency of a gene (again assuming that there are rape genes, which there isn't) indicates a lack of evolutionary success with those genes.

I'm actually pretty sure at this point that you're joking about all of this and being controversial for the lulz. This is fine, you have to occupy your time somehow and considering the difficulty in your life I am in no place to judge.

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 9:17 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:


Second, you're saying rape is intrinsic to males genes, and now you're arguing that "rape genes" are being propagated through the population by rape.


No, I'm saying certain populations of males are more inclined to be sexually aggressive.

Men in prisons are more likely to be rapists, yes?? Why is it any less understandable there could be areas of males population on the rest of the planet that are inclined to be rapists? Maybe they are in the same geographic location that a prison was, or maybe men that were criminals were thrown into the desert?

Genetics don't go far. I have my great great great grandmothers large butt. I'm sure if you go thousands of years back in time you would find one of my female ancestors has a large butt as well...

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 9:26 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
You're still not correctly judging those rape pregnancies relative to the number of regular pregnancies, even assuming that there are rape genes (there aren't).



Helloooooo? Violent men are more likely to be rapists....

If there could be a genetic predilection for violence, why can't there be a genetic predilection for people who commit rape?

http://bonjukianpatten.com/2014/05/15/the-white-jacksons-of-north-caro
lina-a-family-of-rapists/

Having trouble locating a couple others, but look at Castro, he had relatives arrested for rape, as did Josh Powell and his freaky father...

Rape is sexual perversion, and that DEFINATELY is a gene...

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 9:37 PM

WISHIMAY


Hell, you yourself outta know. You say you have no desire to breed and very little to no desire for sexual relations. You don't think THAT'S genetic? It relates to the way your body funtions, which is controlled by DNA???

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 9:43 PM

WISHIMAY


Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Secondly, the fact that rape rates can decrease indicates a flaw in your argument that men just rape. If they had no control in it, the rates would never change.


Rape rates can decrease because men have found other things to fill their time (porn), and there is some awareness that it is wrong due to levels of education, and that we've gotten better at throwing their dumb asses in prison...

Don't mean the DESIRE isn't still there. Violent porn wouldn't be so popular if it wasn't...

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Sunday, June 15, 2014 9:49 PM

WISHIMAY


http://listtoptens.com/top-10-countries-with-highest-rape-crime/

If many Muslims thought rape was a man's fault it would be on this list...


If men all had the same levels of rape stats over the world there wouldn't be a difference. All countries would be on more or less on par.

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