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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by GEEZER:
Kiki states that the only motivation for a capitalist is making profit

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If you don't make profit above & beyond your competitors, you risk a hostile takeover. Making profit is #1 for Capitalism, like breathing is #1 for Humans.
All capitalists do NOT do absolutely the minimum for their employees and communities. But they are risking much by doing good. Which in these economic times makes them less pure Capitalists & more good business people.
Good business people will fail in the EconoWars.

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Starbucks to pay college fees for US staff

Starbucks offers US employees the opportunity to earn a bachelor's degree

US coffee chain firm Starbucks will pay college fees for US workers to complete a bachelor's degree online in a tie-up with Arizona State University.

US employees of the firm who work at least 20 hours a week are eligible for the Starbucks College Achievement Plan.

Starbucks staff who are successfully enrolled will receive partial tuition for the first two years, and full tuition for their final two years.

The annual fee for online courses at the university can exceed $10,000.

After they've completed their bachelor's degree, the employees are not obligated to return to employment with Starbucks.

Starbucks staff looking to attend college online at Arizona State University (ASU) can choose from about 40 programmes including business, engineering, education and retail management.

'New precedent'

In a statement posted on its website, the university said the initiative was designed to 'support the nearly 50% of college students in the United States today who fail to complete their degrees due to mounting debt, a tenuous work-life balance and a lack of support.'

In that same statement, Howard Schultz, chairman and president at Starbucks said: "There's no doubt, the inequality within the country has created a situation where many Americans are being left behind. The question for all of us is, should we accept that, or should we try and do something about it.

Supporting our partners' ambitions is the very best investment Starbucks can make. Everyone who works as hard as our partners do should have the opportunity to complete college, while balancing work, school and their personal lives."

Debt load

In addition to the financial aid, students who are admitted under the college plan will also have a dedicated enrolment coach, financial aid counsellor and academic advisor to support them through graduation.

Michael M. Crow, President at the Arizona State University said that Starbucks was "establishing a new precedent for the responsibility and role of a public company that leads through the lens of humanity and supports its partners' life goals with access to education."

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Originally posted by Geezer:

Then this article can't be true.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2014/jun/16/first-dog
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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Geezer

Any merchants in your neighborhood you deal with that seem to be after more than the last cent they can squeeze out of you? In 1KIKI's world there aren't.

TH

Why not let him chose his own list? Why does it have to be yours? Unless you want to narrow the playing field?

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Geezer, you asked me a question and I answered. Have you no opinion to offer? Or are you going to bail on it because - yanno - you have no answer?

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Good spadework, 1kiki.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Good spadework, 1kiki.

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No links to sources, though.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
I'm sorry 1kiki I think you missed my post about what alternative system you would put in place?

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
I'm sorry 1kiki I think you missed my post about what alternative system you would put in place?

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I'll tag-team an answer (not necessarily hers though):
The best alternative is to mix Capitalism with Anarchism. Take the best from both & add in other elements from Socialism or wherever that WORK.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
ANARCHISM 1 : a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable

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an·ar·chism
noun
belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
ANARCHISM 1 : a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable

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Not MY definition. This:
an·ar·chism
'an?r?kiz?m/
noun
noun: anarchism

belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
I think one answer is to limit profit to payback of initial investment plus accrued interest over the time the current amount of money is still outstanding, rather than have it as a 'free money' card ad infinitum.

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Meanwhile, Geezer, I'm still waiting.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
What do I think of as intelligent, the opposite of stupid? I think it means being able to look at a wide range of information and to examine it in its own right - without reference to our own fears and wishes - to reach an understanding of what it is. So for example, not looking on solar eclipses as portents from gods regarding our human fortunes, but as celestial mechanisms running in their own way. In that regard, capitalism is extremely stupid. It looks at the entire universe of data and asks only one human-related question - can it make a profit? That makes it incredibly stupid.

And what do I think of a wise, the opposite of foolish? It means looking at the range of information we've gotten through our intelligence, and understanding what does it mean for us. In that regard, capitalism is extremely foolish, because having looked at only one question - can it make a profit? - it automatically concludes it should be done. That makes it incredibly foolish.

So why do we trust our lives to this stupid and foolish human system?

I agree, there are those who believe (and you know who they are) the rather foolish premise:

"The one who dies with the most toys, Wins!"

They care not who they step on, torture and ruin. They worship power and they feel that the almighty dollar is their God. For many years they adapted this premise so as not to completely obliterate the slimmest hope that anyone could join the club.

But that is no more. They want to maintain the status quo and further it to the point of extreme exclusion. This is both Foolish and stupid beyond belief.

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
Kris Kristofferson, Me and Bobby McGee, 1969


SGG

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"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
Kris Kristofferson, Me and Bobby McGee, 1969

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Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
there are those who believe (and you know who they are) the rather foolish premise:

"The one who dies with the most toys, Wins!"

They care not who they step on, torture and ruin. They worship power and they feel that the almighty dollar is their God. For many years they adapted this premise so as not to completely obliterate the slimmest hope that anyone could join the club.

But that is no more. They want to maintain the status quo and further it to the point of extreme exclusion. This is both Foolish and stupid beyond belief.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2014/jun/16/first-dog
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Wow MD, Your country is basically the U.S. with a cooler accent....

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Good spadework, 1kiki.

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No links to sources, though.

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You're right.
1kiki, give me back the money I paid you to get answers for me; this project now gets a D-.

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Oh, and Geeze, why won't you answer her question-?

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

Any merchants in your neighborhood you deal with that seem to be after more than the last cent they can squeeze out of you? In 1KIKI's world there aren't.


Well, after locking out their employees during a labor negotiation then being fined $25M by the state for illegal pricing, my Ralph's here finally closed down. If it hadn't been for the state, I'm sure they'd still be doing what they'd been doing. Then there's my TJs where I shop often and talk with the employees. The prices may be lower but the employees are getting screwed. Then there's the Albertson's nearby - I truly don't know how they kept the place alive while Ralph's was open - their prices are atrocious - but now that Ralph's is closed, people have to shop there because it's quite literally the only game in town when it comes to grocery stores.

Those are your choices to pick from, because those are my choices.

So now, tell me Geezer, which of those places is your 'good guy' capitalist?

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Just following your rules, Chris.

#8: Thou shall not lay the burden of proof on him that is questioning the claim. (Burden of proof reversal).

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Originally posted by G:
Raising minimum wage sounds great and maybe it would be. Or maybe the cost of goods and services would go up as well. Catch-22.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

Geezer, may I remind you

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Just following your rules, Chris.

#8: Thou shall not lay the burden of proof on him that is questioning the claim. (Burden of proof reversal).

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But the link WAS provided...

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
AH, the REAL reason Starbucks is being so 'generous' - unionization

Why are Starbucks Workers Joining a Union?

Starbucks Workers Need to>Rise Out of Poverty

The idea that Starbucks workers are paid fairly is a myth created by the company’s public relations machine. Starbucks workers in the United States earn as little $7 or $8 per hour depending on the location.

On top of the low wage, every single barista in the United States is part-time and not guaranteed any work hours per week. For example, a Starbucks employee can get 35 hours of work one week, 22 hours the week after, and 10 hours the following week. Combine the low-wage with the fluctuating hours and you get a very bleak financial picture for Starbuck workers despite Starbucks’ $23 billion market value and rapid growth. Apparently, a net worth of over a billion dollars is not enough for Starbucks Chairman Howard Schultz.

Starbucks Workers Deserve Health Care Coverage

The single greatest myth constructed by Starbucks about working for the company involves health care. But in reality Starbucks is far from being a leader in employee health care. Starbucks insures a lower percentage of its workforce than Wal-Mart a company rightly condemned for its poor health care policies. Starbucks’ 42% is not only worse than Wal-Mart’s 47%, it’s also worse than the industry average!

The barriers to health care for employees are two-fold. First, employees must work 240 hours per quarter to qualify to purchases health care through the company. Keep in mind however, that with no full-time workers and no guaranteed work hours, qualifying to purchase health care is far from assured. Second, workers must pay significant premiums, co-pays, and deductibles to participate in the health care plan. The poverty pay package makes these out-of-pocket expenses a difficult proposition indeed.

Starbucks Workers Require a Sufficiently Staffed and Safe Working Environment

Starbucks baristas work at a relentless pace to meet extraordinary customer demand. If management scheduled an appropriate numbers of workers on the shop floor, workers would not have to work at such an unsafe speed with very hot beverages. The Starbucks work environment is also chock full of ergonomic dangers. The combination of the unduly brisk pace and the ergonomic inadequacies result in repetitive strain injuries like carpal tunnel syndrome for many Starbucks workers.

Starbucks Workers Have a Right to the Respect that Comes With an Independent Voice on the Job

The work life of employees at multinational retailers like Starbucks is characterized by innumerable abuses. Disrespectful managers and managers who treat workers like children are not uncommon. Schedules are often made without consideration for a workers’ need to a healthy sleep schedule. Starbucks requires workers to call around the city to get a shift covered when ill or in bereavement.

Joining a union is how workers exercise their right to free association on the job. The act of standing together with one’s co-workers goes beyond wages and working conditions; solidarity goes to the inherent dignity of working people. A union is how workers have their own voice both on the job and in society. Finally, joining a fighting union is a great way to connect with the global movement for justice.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Originally posted by Geezer:
The "Have you stopped beating your wife?" question?
The "Who do you admire more, Hitler or Stalin?" question?
Yeah. Right.

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