REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

I think this man makes a valid point.

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Saturday, August 2, 2014 19:06
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4815
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Saturday, July 26, 2014 1:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



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Saturday, July 26, 2014 1:40 PM

JONGSSTRAW


He's saying America sacrificed NASA space exploration for Obama Food Stamps. So what else is new?


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Saturday, July 26, 2014 1:58 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
He's saying America sacrificed NASA space exploration for Obama Food Stamps. So what else is new?



Neil has a right to be angry at the elected pinheads in D.C. ALL of them, not just the welfare loving Dems.


But it does set up a bit of a quandary for Neil. On the one hand, Obama is the rock star celeb Prez that he LOVES taking selfies with, and posting those pics all over twitter and facebook. But on the other, Obama is probably the worst offender at moving American AWAY from going back to space and defunding NASA.

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Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:17 PM

CHRISISALL


Ya gotta be nice to the current P(rick)OTUS.

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Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:25 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Neil didn't sound too friendly in the video, or did ya not hear it ?

Though, lets be honest... frustration over our dimwits in office for decades of incompetence does tend to boil over, from time to time.

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Saturday, July 26, 2014 5:07 PM

WHOZIT


Richard Branson will be on Mars WAY before NASA is....and for a lot cheaper.

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Saturday, July 26, 2014 7:11 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by WHOZIT:
Richard Branson will be on Mars WAY before NASA is....and for a lot cheaper.



And certainly with a lot more style.


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Sunday, July 27, 2014 8:06 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



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Sunday, July 27, 2014 10:07 AM

REAVERFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
He's saying America sacrificed NASA space exploration for Obama Food Stamps. So what else is new?



Neil has a right to be angry at the elected pinheads in D.C. ALL of them, not just the welfare loving Dems.


But it does set up a bit of a quandary for Neil. On the one hand, Obama is the rock star celeb Prez that he LOVES taking selfies with, and posting those pics all over twitter and facebook. But on the other, Obama is probably the worst offender at moving American AWAY from going back to space and defunding NASA.

This is your brain on fiction. ^

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Sunday, July 27, 2014 11:00 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

But it does set up a bit of a quandary for Neil. On the one hand, Obama is the rock star celeb Prez that he LOVES taking selfies with, and posting those pics all over twitter and facebook. But on the other, Obama is probably the worst offender at moving American AWAY from going back to space and defunding NASA.


Neil seems to enjoy his celebrity status immensely, certainly more than enough to overcome his anger with Obama's reckless and unnecessary decimation of NASA.

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Sunday, July 27, 2014 11:24 AM

THGRRI


The video you posted to begin this thread is from one of those nuts who believes in Global Warming. I have no doubt this video I am posting will not enlighten you but it is a poke in your eye sent by me.






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Sunday, July 27, 2014 12:34 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by reaverfan:
This is your brain on fiction. ^



Redirecting NASA's mission statement to that of helping Muslim nations feel good about themselves in the areas of science wasn't MY idea.

Why not just quit , you're so far behind the discussion.

THGRRI - Sagan too was into the whole AGW mess as well. Doesn't mean I blindly follow him as well, on all issues.

This thread was and is about getting mankind back into the space exploration game.

Please make a note of it.



Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Sunday, July 27, 2014 12:37 PM

THGRRI


One of the gains of spending more on space adventure is the technological advancements. It is the same for fossil fuel alternatives. Let's see if some here can connect the dots.

Don't hold your breath though.


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Sunday, July 27, 2014 6:54 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
One of the gains of spending more on space adventure is the technological advancements. It is the same for fossil fuel alternatives. Let's see if some here can connect the dots.

Don't hold your breath though.




If getting to space is the pathway to alternate fuels, why did Obama alter the NASA directive from getting us back into space to being moral support for Muslim nations?

connect THOSE dots.

If ya can.

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Sunday, July 27, 2014 7:11 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Because he is a secret Muslim who is plotting with International Jihadists to bring Sharia law to the USA?

Salaam Alaikum.

Get used to it, suckers.

HHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAA

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Sunday, July 27, 2014 7:21 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

.. why did Obama alter the NASA directive from getting us back into space to being moral support for Muslim nations?

connect THOSE dots.

If ya can.


Dots connected:

When Muslims stone a woman to death for adultery it looks just like a meteor shower from her perspective.

When Muslims cut off a thief's hand for stealing he will see stars.

When Muslims give 50 lashes to a young girl for talking to a boy the scars on her back will look like constellations.

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Sunday, July 27, 2014 7:24 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
One of the gains of spending more on space adventure is the technological advancements. It is the same for fossil fuel alternatives. Let's see if some here can connect the dots.

Don't hold your breath though.




If getting to space is the pathway to alternate fuels, why did Obama alter the NASA directive from getting us back into space to being moral support for Muslim nations?

connect THOSE dots.

If ya can.



Oh, this is precious. Not quite what I was trying to say. The gain is in developing the technology and what that would mean for our economy.


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Monday, July 28, 2014 4:22 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
He's saying America sacrificed NASA space exploration for Obama Food Stamps. So what else is new?


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

What!? Is there a Food Stamp scandal now. Well, that doesn't surprise me. Obama has been compared to Satan. The Lawless Tyrant who's too weak to stand up to Putin.

Question: How can you be a weak tyrant? And isn't that an oxymoron?

I've heard of iron-fisted tyrant (that connotes strength) but weak yellow-belly tyrant? That's like saying Final Farewell Debut, it just doesn't work.

In the words of Vinnie Barbarino: "I'm so confused!"


SGG

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Monday, July 28, 2014 5:58 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
One of the gains of spending more on space adventure is the technological advancements. It is the same for fossil fuel alternatives. Let's see if some here can connect the dots.

Don't hold your breath though.




If getting to space is the pathway to alternate fuels, why did Obama alter the NASA directive from getting us back into space to being moral support for Muslim nations?

connect THOSE dots.

If ya can.



Oh, this is precious. Not quite what I was trying to say. The gain is in developing the technology and what that would mean for our economy.




Only, we're NOT doing it. What IS being done is Obama is telling NASA to educate Muslim countries. Why ?

NASA's Muslim Outreach

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/07/07/nasas_muslim_outr
each_106214.html

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Monday, July 28, 2014 9:39 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

….Rap
Only, we're NOT doing it. What IS being done is Obama is telling NASA to educate Muslim countries. Why ? NASA's Muslim outreach




By Mona Charen
“It's not really surprising that President Obama told NASA administrator Charles Bolden that his highest priority should be "to find a way to reach out to the Muslim world and engage much more with dominantly Muslim nations to help them feel good about their historic contribution to science ... and math and engineering." It fits with so much that we already knew about the president”.

by Me
He is trying to wake them up to their history of education and in doing so move them into a direction other than radical. I know why you do not understand. It is because Obama thinks on a higher plan than you and Mona Charen.






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Monday, July 28, 2014 10:18 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


ROFLOL !!!!

Thanks for the laugh .


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Monday, July 28, 2014 10:39 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

……Rappy or as I like to call him….Archie
ROFLOL !!!!
Thanks for the laugh .



Archie Bunker you are in every sense of the word. Those of us who recognize this about you are not rolling on the floor. We just shake our heads in amazement at your inflexibility and illiteracy. I kinda feel bad for you. Being illiterate excludes you from many wonderful concepts of what could be and who is doing what to get us there.




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Monday, July 28, 2014 10:47 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Lame
Your comic sense is weak.
Your attempted faux indignation & name calling goes way over the top.



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Monday, July 28, 2014 10:54 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Lame
Your comic sense is weak.
Your attempted faux indignation & name calling goes way over the top.





Not trying to be funny Arch, just trying to use a good example to give perspective to your inability to evolve. A picture is worth a thousand words.





................VERSE


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Monday, July 28, 2014 11:55 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Thread about nasa going back to space is brought down to name calling & nearing false witness. thgrri , hope you're happy.


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Monday, July 28, 2014 12:17 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Muslims really know their math.

99 beheaded heads on a wall
99 beheaded heads
If one of those heads should happen to fall
98 beheaded heads on a wall.

98 beheaded heads on a wall
98 beheaded heads
If one of those heads should happen to fall
97 beheaded heads on a wall.

97 beheaded heads on a wall ....


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Monday, July 28, 2014 12:34 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Thread about nasa going back to space is brought down to name calling & nearing false witness. thgrri , hope you're happy.



Coming from a guy who calls the President Barry, that’s precious. You post something from Neil DeGrasse Tyson to suggest we should listen to this guy, yet say nothing to a poster about degrading the thread by implying Obama stole money from the space itinerary for his food stamp program. Or how Muslims know their math by cutting off heads. Really, really?

Instead you criticize me for responding to a post by you about the President wanting NASA to waste time trying to enlighten the Muslim community by reintroducing them to space and education, when I answer with a video by Neil suggesting the very same thing. That to you is degrading the thread. Really, really?

You are upset by my name calling which is minimal at most and propelled by your refusal to acknowledge what has been shown to be true, so I really can’t feel too bad about it Archie. You and JONGSSTRAW are a joke.

Joke: something inadequate: somebody or something that is laughably inadequate or absurd



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Monday, July 28, 2014 1:48 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Barry called himself Barry , for much of his life. Irrelevant point to bring up,by you, none the less.

If you feel the need to respond to anyone's food stamp comment, you may do so yourself. You have my permission.

The beheading comment was late in the thread, preceding your latest rant above. Again, you have my permission to address the OP on such comments.

It's not our job to re-enlighten Muslim nations about their history. It simply isn't. Whether Barry says it, or * Neil does.( He doesn't )

Yes. Really.

Minimal or not, it's totally out of line and pointless name calling on your part.

I suppose that you favor more food stamps, more billions to illegals, and less $ directed towards space exploration.

Quote:

...a video by Neil suggesting the very same thing


* ETA - And on Tyson's 'Golden Age' video ? He doesn't say anything about NASA helping Muslim countries. You didn't even watch it, did you ? He was talking about why civilizations stop advancing in science and knowledge. In this case, it was a Muslim cleric and philosopher, around 1200 AD, who said that math was of the devil. Sounds to me as if that's where modern Islam wants to stay, too.

Don't post stuff claiming 'truth' when you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word.





Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

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Monday, July 28, 2014 2:43 PM

THGRRI



Quote:

….Archie
Barry called himself Barry , for much of his life. Irrelevant point to bring up,by you, none the less.



ALL your posts and I mean all your posts about Obama have been derogatory at best. I have no doubt you call him Barry to express that same disgust.

Quote:

….Archie
If you feel the need to respond to anyone's food stamp comment, you may do so yourself. You have my permission.



I did not feel the need. When you felt the need to address someone stinking up your thread, perhaps you should have addressed that comment instead of implying the better argument was guilty of it.

Quote:

….Archie
The beheading comment was late in the thread, preceding your latest rant above. Again, you have my permission to address the OP on such comments.



Perhaps you should if you truly are upset by people posting nonsense on this thread?

Quote:

….Archie
It's not our job to re-enlighten Muslim nations about their history. It simply isn't. Whether Barry says it, or Neil does. Yes. Really.



I am sorry for you that you cannot see the logic in getting Muslims around the world to get back to their roots as leaders in soliciting new ideas through cross cultural exchanges.

Quote:

….Archie
Minimal or not, it's totally out of line and pointless name calling on your part.



You have a posting style that invites name calling. It is the point behind what you post and how and you are fully aware of it.

Quote:

….Archie
I suppose that you favor more food stamps, more billions to illegals, and less $ directed towards space exploration.



The first part of the sentence is irrelevant and was posted earlier by jon boy to illicit anger. As for money for more space exploration, yes always have.

Quote:

….Archie
You're a pathetic piece of go-se.



No fair I said it first. About you and jon boy who apparently never made it from shot pants to long.

Quote:

….Archie
* ETA - And on Tyson's 'Golden Age' video ? He doesn't say anything about NASA helping Muslim countries. You didn't even watch it, did you ? He was talking about why civilizations stop advancing in science and knowledge. In this case, it was a Muslim cleric and philosopher, around 1200 AD, who said that math was of the devil. Sounds to me as if that's where modern Islam wants to stay, too. Don't post stuff claiming 'truth' when you clearly don't understand the meaning of the word.



Wow Archie, that was the entire point of the video I posted about naming rights. Which was a direct response to a post by you. You need to learn to pay better attention. You should have been able to connect the dots between Obamas wishes for NASA to reengage Muslims in space exploration, and how it connects seamlessly to what Neil was saying. Very sad you could not.

The other point, was he blames the belief in god for their downfall, which was he's final line. Why do 15% of scholars still believe in God. He implies they are wrong to do so.


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Monday, July 28, 2014 3:53 PM

THGRRI


Archie do you want to know what troubles me most. Here we are three days in arguing about Obama reaching out to the Muslim world and there is no sign of Signym or 1kiki. I guess unless the thread says something negative about America they are not interested?


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Monday, July 28, 2014 4:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Not NASA's job to re-engage Muslims. If some nations ASKS, then maybe we can get state to chip in and help, but no way is it NASA's priority to see to it others feel good about themselves.

And for one who whines about calling Barry by his real name,hypocrite here feels perfectly fine in mockingly calling others 'Archie'. At least I'm not calling Barry by his actual REAL middle name - Hussein.

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Monday, July 28, 2014 5:17 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Not NASA's job to re-engage Muslims. If some nations ASKS, then maybe we can get state to chip in and help, but no way is it NASA's priority to see to it others feel good about themselves.

And for one who whines about calling Barry by his real name,hypocrite here feels perfectly fine in mockingly calling others 'Archie'. At least I'm not calling Barry by his actual REAL middle name - Hussein.



Read your post Arch. Mulling it over. About the name calling that is.


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Monday, July 28, 2014 5:42 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
One of the gains of spending more on space adventure is the technological advancements. It is the same for fossil fuel alternatives. Let's see if some here can connect the dots.

Don't hold your breath though.




If getting to space is the pathway to alternate fuels, why did Obama alter the NASA directive from getting us back into space to being moral support for Muslim nations?

connect THOSE dots.

If ya can.



Oh, this is precious. Not quite what I was trying to say. The gain is in developing the technology and what that would mean for our economy.




Only, we're NOT doing it. What IS being done is Obama is telling NASA to educate Muslim countries. Why ?

NASA's Muslim Outreach

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/07/07/nasas_muslim_outr
each_106214.html



Because he is a secret Muslim who is plotting with International Jihadists to bring Sharia law to the USA?

Salaam Alaikum.

Get used to it, suckers.

HHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAAAA

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Monday, July 28, 2014 5:45 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
He's saying America sacrificed NASA space exploration for Obama Food Stamps. So what else is new?



Neil has a right to be angry at the elected pinheads in D.C. ALL of them, not just the welfare loving Dems.


But it does set up a bit of a quandary for Neil. On the one hand, Obama is the rock star celeb Prez that he LOVES taking selfies with, and posting those pics all over twitter and facebook. But on the other, Obama is probably the worst offender at moving American AWAY from going back to space and defunding NASA.


The essence of choosing to be a libtard. You can't really feel sorry for him, can you? You get what you elect.
I once had a job in a region of the Great Lakes, they had a saying. Plant a potato, get a potato.

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Monday, July 28, 2014 5:45 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



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Monday, July 28, 2014 5:50 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
One of the gains of spending more on space adventure is the technological advancements. It is the same for fossil fuel alternatives. Let's see if some here can connect the dots.

Don't hold your breath though.



AAAAEEEERRRRRRRTT.

DOES NOT COMPUTE.

SYNTAX ERROR.

Yes, NASA was one of the 2 Departments or Agencies which returned more value to the American populace than they spent in tax dollars. However, Energy was not the other, nor any other department or agency related to the fiction surrounding alternative fuels.

It was correct that NASA had the greatest return for the dollar, at $1.21 per dollar spent. The other Department was at $1.06 per dollar spent.

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Monday, July 28, 2014 5:51 PM

THGRRI


Ok Archie I'm done thinking about it.


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Tuesday, July 29, 2014 8:03 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

I'm done thinking about it.




The irony. It's rich.

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Tuesday, July 29, 2014 10:31 AM

JONGSSTRAW


And speaking of "99 beheaded heads on a wall" ....

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=190_1406399936

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Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
And speaking of "99 beheaded heads on a wall" ....

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=190_1406399936



Yeah ... Gonna skip that one.

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Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:08 PM

THGRRI


Definition of bigot (n)

Bing Dictionary
big·ot
[ bígg?t ]


1.intolerant person: somebody with strong opinions, especially on politics, religion, or ethnicity, who refuses to accept different views



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Tuesday, July 29, 2014 12:23 PM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
And speaking of "99 beheaded heads on a wall" ....

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=190_1406399936



Yeah ... Gonna skip that one.


You should watch it. It's not as bad as Halloween XII or Saw 7 or even Game of Thrones, but it is real. These Muslim Jihadists are real and they want to kill us. This video shows what they do.

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Tuesday, July 29, 2014 1:16 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I'd think anyone who wants more manned space trips to the moon, mars, etc... would at least agree on that point in this thread.

Too much to ask ??


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Wednesday, July 30, 2014 5:22 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:
I'm done thinking about it.


The irony. It's rich.


Nominating for Post of the Week.

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Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:00 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'd think anyone who wants more manned space trips to the moon, mars, etc... would at least agree on that point in this thread.

Too much to ask ??




No not too much, I agree with that except this thread suggests Obama killed the space program which is not true at all.

This appears almost immediately after you start this thread.

Quote:

...Archie

But it does set up a bit of a quandary for Neil. On the one hand, Obama is the rock star celeb Prez that he LOVES taking selfies with, and posting those pics all over twitter and facebook. But on the other, Obama is probably the worst offender at moving American AWAY from going back to space and defunding NASA.




Mars Mission: Obama Wants an Asteroid. Republicans Want the Moon.

Obama and NASA's current leadership, however, favor a further foray into the final frontier: capturing, redirecting, and exploring an asteroid. To do so, they want the space agency to invest in solar propulsion engines, technology that is also a prerequisite for a long-distance Mars mission. While the Mars astronauts themselves will travel on a fuel-powered ship, the resupply craft they'll meet along the way will use the slower but more cost-effective solar power.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/mars-mission-obama-wants-an-astero
id-republicans-want-the-moon-20140702

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Wednesday, July 30, 2014 6:20 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by THGRRI:

No not too much, I agree with that except this thread suggests Obama killed the space program which is not true at all.



You have trouble reading, son. I SPECIFICALLY placed blame at the feet of both political parties.

Quote:



This appears almost immediately after you start this thread.

Quote:



But it does set up a bit of a quandary for Neil. On the one hand, Obama is the rock star celeb Prez that he LOVES taking selfies with, and posting those pics all over twitter and facebook. But on the other, Obama is probably the worst offender at moving American AWAY from going back to space and defunding NASA.




Mars Mission: Obama Wants an Asteroid. Republicans Want the Moon.

Obama and NASA's current leadership, however, favor a further foray into the final frontier: capturing, redirecting, and exploring an asteroid. To do so, they want the space agency to invest in solar propulsion engines, technology that is also a prerequisite for a long-distance Mars mission. While the Mars astronauts themselves will travel on a fuel-powered ship, the resupply craft they'll meet along the way will use the slower but more cost-effective solar power.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/mars-mission-obama-wants-an-astero
id-republicans-want-the-moon-20140702





Both can easily be done, so it's a straw man argument to suggest Obama wants more than do the GOP.

Obama's ' re-educate the Muslims' edict is all the proof anyone needs of his resolve to get mankind back into space.

He has none.

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Thursday, July 31, 2014 10:53 AM

BYTEMITE


We finally found something we can all agree on, that people in Washington D.C. are pinheads and they shouldn't be defunding NASA.

Conversation somehow turns into another discussion on Obama scandals anyway.

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Thursday, July 31, 2014 11:09 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

….Archie
You have trouble reading, son. I SPECIFICALLY placed blame at the feet of both political parties.



Not what I saw, I saw this.

Quote:

...Archie
Obama is probably the worst offender at moving American AWAY from going back to space and defunding NASA.



As I showed you with a link provided, that statement is false. That was my point.

Quote:

….Archie
Obama's ' re-educate the Muslims' edict is all the proof anyone needs of his resolve to get mankind back into space.



Your point does not match the Presidents intentions and shows a lack of critical thinking skills on your part.



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Thursday, July 31, 2014 11:30 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


" Neil has a right to be angry at the elected pinheads in D.C. ALL of them, not just the welfare loving Dems. "

That 1 quote debunks your entire phony position.

Good day, sir.

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Thursday, July 31, 2014 11:43 AM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
" Neil has a right to be angry at the elected pinheads in D.C. ALL of them, not just the welfare loving Dems. "

That 1 quote debunks your entire phony position.

Good day, sir.



Yes Neil is entitled to his opinion and I have always been disgusted about the lack of interest and funding in our space program. It drives the advancement of new technologies and is an incredible job creator which increases our GDP exponentially.

Your remarks here however are predictable in your continual attacks against the President. If you wish to discuss space lets do so. If you just wish to use this as another excuse to attack the President I will as always call you out on it.

Example:

I believe this administration as well as the past few are doing this country a big disservice by not properly funding NASA and our space program.

Now we would have a discussion.

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