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REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS
Anti-war essay in leading German business paper Handelsblatt
Saturday, August 9, 2014 12:30 PM
SIGNYM
I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.
Quote: .... Did it all start with the Russian invasion of the Crimean or did the West first promote the destabilization of the Ukraine? Does Russia want to expand into the West or NATO into the East? Or did maybe two world-powers meet at the same door in the middle of the night, driven by very similar intentions towards a defenseless third that now pays for the resulting quagmire with the first phases of a civil war? If at this point you are still waiting for an answer as to whose fault it is, you might as well just stop reading. You will not miss anything. We are not trying to unearth this hidden truth. We don't know how it started. We don't know how it will end. And we are sitting right here, in the middle of it. At least Peter Sloterdijk has a few words of consolation for us: “To live in the world means to live in uncertainty.“ Our purpose is to wipe off some of the foam that has formed on the debating mouths, to steal words from the mouths of both the rabble-rousers and the roused, and put new words there instead. One word that has become disused of late is this: realism. The politics of escalation show that Europe sorely misses a realistic goal. It's a different thing in the US. Threats and posturing are simply part of the election preparations. When Hillary Clinton compares Putin with Hitler, she does so only to appeal to the Republican vote, i.e. people who do not own a passport. For many of them, Hitler is the only foreigner they know, which is why Adolf Putin is a very welcome fictitious campaign effigy. In this respect, Clinton and Obama have a realistic goal: to appeal to the people, to win elections, to win another Democratic presidency. Angela Merkel can hardly claim these mitigating circumstances for herself. Geography forces every German Chancellor to be a bit more serious. As neighbors of Russia, as part of the European community bound in destiny, as recipient of energy and supplier of this and that, we Germans have a clearly more vital interest in stability and communication. We cannot afford to look at Russia through the eyes of the American Tea Party... It is not too late for the duo Merkel/Steinmeier to use the concepts and ideas of this time. It does not make sense to just follow the strategically idea-less Obama. Everyone can see how he and Putin are driving like in a dream directly towards a sign which reads: Dead End... In the end, even the men who had succumbed to war fever in 1914 had to realize this. After the end of the war, the penitent issued a second call, this time to understanding between nations: “The civilized world became a war camp and battle field. It is time that a great tide of love replaces the devastating wave of hatred.“ We should try to avoid the detour via the battle fields in the 21st century. History does not have to repeat itself. Maybe we can find a shortcut.
Friday, August 15, 2014 7:04 PM
Friday, August 15, 2014 7:19 PM
THGRRI
Quote:…Sig Did it all start with the Russian invasion of the Crimean or did the West first promote the destabilization of the Ukraine? Does Russia want to expand into the West or NATO into the East? Or did maybe two world-powers meet at the same door in the middle of the night, driven by very similar intentions towards a defenseless third that now pays for the resulting quagmire with the first phases of a civil war?
Friday, August 15, 2014 7:23 PM
Friday, August 15, 2014 7:25 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: .... -------------- THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.
Friday, August 15, 2014 9:16 PM
Saturday, August 16, 2014 12:57 PM
Quote:BUDAPEST (Reuters) - The European Union has harmed itself economically with the sanctions it has imposed on Russia over Ukraine, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban said on Friday, calling for a rethink.. Orban's remarks came a day after his Slovak counterpart, Robert Fico, criticised the sanctions as "meaningless", saying they would threaten economic growth in the 28-member bloc. "The sanctions policy pursued by the West, that is, ourselves, a necessary consequence of which has been what the Russians are doing, causes more harm to us than to Russia," Orban said in a radio interview. "In politics, this is called shooting oneself in the foot." Export-driven Hungary is heavily reliant on energy imports from its former Communist overlord and early this year Budapest agreed with Russian power firm Rosatom to expand Hungary's only nuclear plant in a 10 billion euro ($13 billion) deal. Russia is also Hungary's largest trading partner outside the European Union, with exports worth 2.55 billion euros in 2013. "The EU should not only compensate producers somehow, be they Polish, Slovak, Hungarian or Greek, who now have to suffer losses, but the entire sanctions policy should be reconsidered," Orban said.
Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:20 PM
Quote: And now, that realization is starting to spread to Europe's own countries, which - while the new cold war was only one of rhetoric were perfectly happy to go for the ride - but now that trade war has finally broken out, suddenly increasingly more want out. As we reported previously, it all started with the Greeks, a nation of heavy food exports into Russia, who were the first to announce their displeasure with the "Stop Putin" coalition: the moment Russia retaliated, the grand alliance started to crack. Enter Greece which has hundreds of millions in food exports to Russia, and which was the first country to hint that it may splinter from the western "pro-sanctions" alliance. According to Bloomberg, earlier today the Greek foreign minister and former PM said that "we are in continuous deliberations in order to have the smallest possible consequences, and if possible no significant impact whatsoever."... And making it very clear that this will be a major political issue was a statement by the main opposition party Syriza which today said that the Greek government's "blind obedience to the Cold War strategies of Brussels and Washington will be disastrous for country’s agriculture." In a moment of surprising clarity, Syriza asked govt to immediately lift all sanctions to Russia, as they don’t contribute to a solution of the Ukrainian crisis, and "instead fuel an economic and trade war, in which Greece has unfortunately become involved." Syriza concluded that the government hasn’t weighted Greece’s special interests and bilateral relations with Russia. Then it was Slovakia whose premier Robert Fico criticized Ukraine for preparing sanctions against Russian persons and companies, and he has called on Ukraine not to approve them, expressing concerns that the legislation could result in a halt to natural gas supplies. If the conflict between Ukraine and Russia escalates, the legal norm could cause interruption of natural gas supplies to Slovakia (and to Western Europe) via Ukraine from Russia, he said. Slovakia depends on supplies of Russian gas. However, if gas supplies via Ukraine were interrupted, Slovakia would get gas through backflow from the West. "It is strange that a country that has signed an association agreement with the EU and which we are trying to help is taking one-sided steps that endanger the individual economic interests of EU member countries, instead of coordinating its approach with the EU," Fico said. "We do not want to be a hostage in the Russian-Ukrainian problem. We expect Ukraine not to adopt formal steps that, if implemented, can endanger our interests. A country that has signed the association agreement should not behave like that," Fico declared. Poland too complained last week, however for now it finds the fault not with the "alliance" but with Russia for daring to retaliate to western sanctions. Poland's agriculture minister went on television to announce the country was taking action against Russia's new import ban. "We believe Russia has broken international law in both its embargo against Poland and its embargo against the EU," Marek Sawicki said. Russia banned the import of Polish fruit and vegetables in early August - a move Sawicki said would cost Poland 0.6 percent of GDP... "If a WTO member state believes another WTO member state has taken a measure that is not in conformity with WTO rules, the affected WTO member state may request mediation," attorney and WTO expert Eric Pickett said. Good luck. It is only a matter of time before this futile anger at Putin turns not to the logical response to sanctions, but at the instigator of the sanctions themselves. Then it was most vibrant economy in central Europe, the Czech Republic, where overnight the finance minister voiced the loudest anger at Russian sanctions yet. From Bloomberg: SANCTIONS ON RUSSIA MAKE NO SENSE, CZECH FINANCE MINISTER SAYS And finally, it is the country whose fate is what this conflict is all about, because should Germany decide it has had enough of DC's geopolitical brinksmanship, one which always "costs" European allies far more than it does the US, and aligns with the Russia-China-India axis, then the "Eurasian Crescent" will be complete, and the countdown to reserve currency transition may officially begin. Sure enough, Bloomberg reports that sanctions against Russia are hurting sentiment at German companies, according to Focus magazine which cites the BGA Federation of German Wholesale and Foreign Trade, and the DIHK German Association of Chambers of Commerce and Industry.
Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:33 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: The article is from a German business perspective. You may call it delusional... but it's the German business class who influences the German government, not you. -------------- THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.
Saturday, August 16, 2014 1:39 PM
Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:20 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: So, they should sacrifice their economies and fuel supplies because WE get in a hissy-fit with Russia? It seems to me that their relationships with Russia are up to them and Russia, and we shouldn't be in there stirring the pot. If they want our help, I'm sure they'll ask for it. But this is the reason why (you keep complaining that) we don't get much "support" from our allies: We keep making decisions for them. That "fuck the EU" statement from Victoria Nuland seems to reflect the entire State Department attitude. At this point, EU businesses may be reaching a "fuck the USA" point too. -------------- THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.
Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:26 PM
1KIKI
Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.
Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:39 PM
Quote:The Ukrainians wanted closer ties with Europe.
Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:54 PM
Saturday, August 16, 2014 2:58 PM
Saturday, August 16, 2014 3:02 PM
Quote:Originally posted by THGRRI: Sure I can understand what you are saying. I also understand what you are not saying. For instance, while many Ukrainians have differing opinions that should be respected, those Russians who migrated there for jobs and are still Russian citizens have no right to pick up arms and try to secede. Russia has no right to send in guns and heavy equipment or to supply the insurgents in any way. This is a country that is trying to shed its corrupt ways of the past with Russia trying to deny them that right.
Saturday, August 16, 2014 3:10 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Quote:Originally posted by THGRRI: Sure I can understand what you are saying. I also understand what you are not saying. For instance, while many Ukrainians have differing opinions that should be respected, those Russians who migrated there for jobs and are still Russian citizens have no right to pick up arms and try to secede. Russia has no right to send in guns and heavy equipment or to supply the insurgents in any way. This is a country that is trying to shed its corrupt ways of the past with Russia trying to deny them that right. Everything that you just posted is horse puckies. There were MANY Ukrainians... not Russians, Ukrainians... who wanted to stay in the Russians customs union. They're not "pro-Russian", just not "pro-Western". If Russia has no right to send in arms (assuming that they're sending in anything) then neither does the USA, Canada, or NATO. So, how about this: Every foreigner gets the hell out? And the new leader is just as corrupt as any of the old leaders. You're a remarkable ignoramus. Why don't you do some basic research before you post such blather? -------------- THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.
Saturday, August 16, 2014 3:21 PM
Quote:I will remind you of what I said about you and 1kiki on other occasions regarding this topic
Saturday, August 16, 2014 3:35 PM
Quote:Originally posted by SIGNYM: Quote:I will remind you of what I said about you and 1kiki on other occasions regarding this topic Here I am, telling you that you should go pursue some FACTS before you post, and there you are with more of what you usually "say" on ANY topic: Insult. Opinion. Innuendo. REALLY??? Son, you wouldn't know a fact if it sat on your face. I just hope your sex life is more successful than your intellectual one. -------------- THUGR is a know-nothing militarist.
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