Another Unarmed Black Teen Killed by SHINYGOODGUY

Sorry 1kiki, I have a document that has all those statics but can't cut it paste it here. I wasted enough time trying and I have no intention of retyping it. I also have a graph I created but that will not cut and paste out of word either.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 5:42 PM

SHINYGOODGUY

Funny thing.................whites can walk around with AK-47s strapped to their body, full bandoleers, and no one stops them, not even for a price check.

They walk into Wal-Mart's and the like and no one bothers to check their credentials.

Does that seem right to you?

SGG

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Something I would add is the left helping those who behave badly to continue to do so. They do this every time they point to statistics that show a disproportionate amount of time a black is confronted for different reasons that whites. It is why I suggested to Fern that every time someone is shot we should print the face of those responsible for the shooting. If we did you would see a white face on occasion in a sea of color. If we showed their victims they to would represent a sea of color. So why then does the left complain when blacks get checked for guns more than whites?

What the left does from the safety of there community is deny the behavior within the community that perpetuates the police behavior adding to the problem. I would ask them how are the police in their neighborhoods. It would provide for and interesting discussion because I sure the police there are great.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 6:09 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Sorry 1kiki, I have a document that has all those statics (sic) but can't cut it paste it here. I wasted enough time trying and I have no intention of retyping it. I also have a graph I created but that will not cut and paste out of word either.

Or, you could have clicked on the link I provided:
http://www.vox.com/2014/6/26/5845468/a-black-man-with-a-college-degree
-is-as-likely-to-be-working-as-a
where you could also have seen a chart which indicates most white women would be better off as black men:

and found a link that further elucidated the effects of discrimination, in this case on account of sex:
http://www.vox.com/2014/4/9/5597392/fancy-math-cant-erase-the-gender-p
ay-gap

BTW, you can always google (or ixquick, startpage, gibiru or duckduckgo). You can find many facts you can then post.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:24 PM

America loves a winner!

I really did like Scrubs. Thanks to Netflix, I've been power viewing all 9 seasons. Great show.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:25 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Thanks for the bump.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:33 PM

1kiki

That is what I have that I could not post. Only mine is a bit more complete. I have all kinds of those stats posted by the census bureau.

Do you know what it means in reference to what I was posting? Nothing at all. My continued point was, it stays that way till the black community decides to change. But of course you knew that and have no argument against it, so you take the tact of suggesting I dispute they are handicapped or treated unfairly.

What you need to learn to do is, if you can not make an argument against what is being posted for or against, you should not get evolved at all.

And once again with the bitch, bitch, bitch and no offered solutions.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:33 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Ok, let's put the generalizations aside. Mike-Mike, as he was known in his neighborhood, had both his parents around to raise him. The statement their attorney was that both struggled to keep him straight and going to school.
He graduated and was about to enter a vocational college to study mechanics or some such. Besides how many black men wind up in jail. Please - it's the chicken or the egg syndrome. What came first? Poverty begets desperation, which begets violence. Give people no way out and see what happens.

Then why steal the cigars, so brazenly and use force, on a store owner ? That seems out of character for a kid who seemed, by all accounts given so far, to be doing things the right way.

Quote:

Still, with all of that, the streets taught him a different lesson. I'm not excusing his bad or criminal behavior, but whether he stole cigarillos or jaywalked (the police still can't get their story straight) he didn't deserved to be executed. The officer behaved like judge, jury and executioner - this land stands for something better than that. A world war was fought over that.

Kid, big or little, black or white, wanders down the middle of a street in the middle of the day, and a cop tells you to get to steppin' for the sidewalk, you'd best listen. What took place after their initial encounter, remains to be revealed. I doubt very much that a 6 year vet on the police force, seeing a black male in the street, decided " Yeah, time to shoot someone " and then proceeded to execute young Mr. Brown.

If that's how it went down, then we have a severe mental defect, and not your standard ' police brutality ' case.

Quote:

And the idiots who riot and destroy public and private property should be jailed like any other criminal. Those few idiots, like the idiot police officer, make the upstanding citizens look bad. One bad apple could rot the bunch.

Only for the rioters, it's many bad apples. And many more, who stand by and just let it happen. It's THEIR FREAKING NEIGHBORHOOD !

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:45 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

THUGR

"My continued point was, it stays that way till the black community decides to change."

You mean, till they decide to provide themselves with better schools? Hire themselves into jobs? Give themselves better wages? Build and staff better hospitals? Create themselves better public funding?

You mean they can do all that? Shit man, why did nobody tell me? ... What are you smoking dude? Or are you just blowing crap out of your privileged white male ass? (as always)

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 7:47 PM

What many here forget Rappy is that once a cop says do something and you don't, he can't walk away. Some here will say he can but if he did he would lose all authority in that neighborhood. Anyone who knows anything about the street knows that. If the kid is being harassed by the cop he can file a complaint but he can't refuse. To many people think when told by a cop to do something it is time for a debate.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:05 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Thanks for the bump.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:09 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Your police sound like arseholes

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:13 PM

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
What many here forget Rappy is that once a cop says do something and you don't, he can't walk away. Some here will say he can but if he did he would lose all authority in that neighborhood. Anyone who knows anything about the street knows that. If the kid is being harassed by the cop he can file a complaint but he can't refuse. To many people think when told by a cop to do something it is time for a debate.

That is a terrible excuse to use deadly force.

I think its quite right that police bear intense scrutiny if they shoot someone, particularly if they kill. It should be a last resort in the face of a direct threat to another or to themselves. And I mean more of a threat than apparently reaching for a gun and not stopping.

The problem in the US is the prevalence of arms which kind of make for a jumpy police force I guess.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:15 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Your police sound like arseholes

Not all are, but yeah, far too many.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Thanks for the bump.

This shows how delusional you are. This is not your thread and someone else posting here is not someone bumping the thread for you.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
What many here forget Rappy is that once a cop says do something and you don't, he can't walk away. Some here will say he can but if he did he would lose all authority in that neighborhood. Anyone who knows anything about the street knows that. If the kid is being harassed by the cop he can file a complaint but he can't refuse. To many people think when told by a cop to do something it is time for a debate.

That is a terrible excuse to use deadly force.

I think its quite right that police bear intense scrutiny if they shoot someone, particularly if they kill. It should be a last resort in the face of a direct threat to another or to themselves. And I mean more of a threat than apparently reaching for a gun and not stopping.

The problem in the US is the prevalence of arms which kind of make for a jumpy police force I guess.

We do not yet know Magon why deadly force was used. The cop may be entirely wrong and needs to go to jail. As for our countries cops. It is the many bad apples they are stuck policing that are mostly the problem. If you visit this country as you said you would like. Visit a black neighborhood. I can assure you, you will not stay long. Then imagine trying to police it.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:34 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

This shows how delusional you are. This is not your thread and someone else posting here is not someone bumping the thread for you.

Hmmm. Did I say it was my thread? Please, quote me on that. Feel free.

Personally, I thought the thread should stay on top. Me thanking you for it is in no way an indication that I thought I owned the thread, or that I thought you were performing a personal task for me.

Delusional, much? Or simply illiterate?

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:43 PM

1kiki

It's been moving right along without the bump comment being necessary. No 1kiki I think my assessment of what you meant was accurate. Unless you want to try again as to why you did it?

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:45 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

This is not your thread and someone else posting here is not someone bumping the thread for you.
I think my assessment of what you meant was accurate.

So, you claim I think the thread is 'mine'. And that I think you were doing a task for me.

Hm. Reading things that aren't there. Thinking things that have no basis in fact. Unable to objectively show anyone else what you claim is true - or even exists.

Delusional it is.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:50 PM

1kiki, the point is because you have no suggestions as to have to fix what is wrong, and because if you did all you could do is make suggestions that are absolutely not going to happen. All you are about is how there is such injustice perpetrated against blacks.

I am not arguing against that but instead suggesting that if the blacks do not change what is going on in their community amongst themselves. Another hundred years is going to pass with all the same shit happening.

If you want to argue that I am up for it. Otherwise stop answering my posts with shit I am not talking about. If you do not understand this post like you apparently have not understood the others, have someone read it to you.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 8:55 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

changing the goal posts

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
changing the goal posts
]

No it is just me pointing out once again how you twist what people say by making it appear they mean something else. I have just dealt with this same thing with you in another thread. You lied and misrepresented what I said and I asked you for the link. I would think you had it because you just quoted it. Instead you ignored me with one post and have not been back since.

This is what a bump is for so check it out. I will bump the thread so you can post the link clearing your name.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:03 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

ad hominem

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
ad hominem

Yes that is a big part of what you are doing. I notice you are not posting the link and there you have it.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:12 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

ad hominem
onus probandi
Moral high ground

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 9:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
ad hominem
onus probandi
Moral high ground

Yep,

gave you a chance to show you are not a liar and you run for the hills. That post shut you down cold. Nothing more from you on this thread about it and nothing more on the other.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:26 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

ad hominem

Really, is that all the horsepower you have?

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:41 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

preserving THUGR's racist rants for the future:

I can make all kinds of statements about why this always happens in black communities. I can take the African American argument based on their point of view and make it for them because a lot of it is true. What does that mean? It means nothing is going to change. I understand what made things the way they are but that is not what keeps them that way. Michael Jackson had a song, Man in the Mirror. Change comes from within. Yes there is much that can be done but they have to be willing to do what is necessary before investment will be made in their community. White people are not coming to the rescue no matter how much the black community complains. I am white and know from talking to other whites, most of us have had many experiences in African American communities. We can’t wait to leave.

I find these communities to be loud and abrasive. I realized from my first incursion into the black community I needed to be vigilant. I have always understood I too was disliked because of my skin color while there. I should inform you I lived in these communities. Their hate gushes out every time something happens and in many cases they destroy their own community even more looting and burning things down. They’re not thinking about this poor kid while they are stealing that new TV. They are exploiting his death for personal gain. Its white people’s fault its white peoples fault they yell as they loot and steal. Saying anything about the behavior of minorities is always politically incorrect but not doing so does little to evoke change. This kid is dead because of the culture that permeates throughout the black community and those who work there. I have heard many times from other white people, if they want new books for their schools they should read the old ones. Within the old books lies the secret of how to attain new ones.

He may have been a great kid with a bright future but is dead instead because of the communities’ culture of the past that infuses itself throughout. Even if the cop was 100% wrong the only thing that may occur is money for the Kids family and jail time for the cop. Big deal, nothing changes and the process begins again. Buildings and streets are like the populations that reside there. If you make an effort to maintain them they will provide better for you. If you neglect them they will fall apart. The black community must learn to maintain themselves or nothing will change. African Americans wanted to create their own culture and this is what they themselves have created. They need to learn to live with it or change.

Let the attacks begin I don't care. Always blaming one side while excusing the other fixes nothing.

Now this is an interesting stew of bad logic, self-delusion, ignorance and sheer hate.

THUGR claims it 'always' happens in black communities. Apparently it never happens in Hispanic communities. Or Asian communities. Or Native American communities. It never happens with Francophones living among Anglophones. Or to poor whites living among wealthy whites. It's not due to a non-racial process brought about by limited opportunities being corralled by the powerful. It ALWAYS happens in black communities, because - can we talk? - they're black. Obviously.

So we have this big, and I mean GINORMOUS stereotype already, one indicating he certainly isn't going to view this with any degree of impartiality. Nope, it's going to go through that big filter of hate. Against blacks.

And what keeps things the way they are - certainly isn't due to ongoing racism, or any type of 'ism'. Despite all the studies that show 'discountedly equal' opportunity, reward, justice, representation and power for women, blacks, and Hispanics of equal ability doing equal work, it must certainly not be due to discrimination. No, it's because blacks have insufficiently changed from within. Apparently, if they try hard enough, their skin will turn white.

I find this to be an interesting statement, made without irony or understanding: "I have always understood I too was disliked because of my skin color while there." (in black communities) I just have to let this stand without comment.

Then there is his incomprehension about who owns what in those communities, and what is their role: "in many cases they destroy their OWN COMMUNITY even more looting and burning things down". Does he not understand that blacks don't own 'their' communities? That slumlords own the housing, corps own the fast food joints, and outsiders own the liquor stores. That those entities are rightfully viewed as predators, or at least parasites, by 'the community'?

"This kid is dead because of the culture that permeates throughout the black community and those who work there. ... He may have been a great kid with a bright future but is dead instead because of the communities’ culture of the past ... " Because, apparently the cop was not supposed to deal with an individual kid. No, the cop was supposed to react to a stereotype, and kill it dead. It's only normal, after all.

So, apparently, this is all the fault of the black community. They should just provide themselves with equal schools, jobs, housing, opportunity, rewards. Only they need to do anything different.

Point is why. Why does this keep happening. Not What....this does not happen with whites because they are white. It does not happen in white neighborhoods because white neighborhoods are not war zones. That is not a prejudicial statement. It is a fact. When was the last time you heard of a kid being shot in a drive by in a white neighborhood. How about never. How many times have you heard of a bullet going through a wall in a home killing a kid asleep or doing their school work. How about never. How many times have you heard of a mayor of a city like in Chicago having to line the streets in white neighborhoods with cops so the kids could safely make it to school. How about never. That's why this kid is dead. He lives in a war zone. What color are the soldiers there, how about black. Add to that the propaganda we always hear about how sweet the victims are. Then look at the video of this sweet gentle giant bulling a store clerk not even half his size as he was stealing from the store. As I said, it's not what happen but why it happened we should be focusing on.

Right it doesn't so since only those who come from the neighborhood are speaking up and since I would expect them to claim what they are. I will wait to pass judgment on who was at fault.

That said, I can say the police are overreacting a bit with the defense they are mounting. Pretty over the top if you ask me.

It's the collective culture of these neighborhoods that needs to be the focus not a single incident that we do not have the facts of.

I mentioned his alleged involvement in the store robbery in a previous post. I also addressed all the propaganda that always accompanies these type of shooting. Propaganda such as what a nice kid this was and how he never gets into trouble. You must not be reading my posts thoroughly. I would like to see if it is true that he registered for college or if that is bogus as well.

None of this helps change a bad culture. That is what needs to be done. Focusing on this kid is just more of the same.

Things got out of hand Second. Arresting the other guy may be yet to come. Things have changed and whatever the police do they need get it right.

Holly crap are you nuts. I glossed over nothing. I suggested all the crap about him being a good kid was just that. Crap, I then went on to what I believe is the bigger point. That the community culture that permeates thorough out these neighborhoods across this country is that of a combat zone and that is why he is dead. Slow down and try and let it sink in before reacting. I am being harder on the community in placing blame when these shooting happen. I am suggesting their way of life creates a atmosphere for this.

Did not speak about Asians or Latinos. Only about the culture that has developed in Black communities. Violent.....

There were laws changed about letting unused armored vehicles and machine guns go to scrape instead of to local communities. It was a result of 911. It's a bit overdone in smaller communities.

Yes the Black community has been wronged, terribly wronged. So I will say they should not care what my advice would be, instead they should take their lead from the Jews. They were enslaved in Egypt for 200 to 400 years. During WW11, 6 million were sent to gas chambers. They are few yet stand up to the world. There are only 13.3 million in the entire world. They have balls. It’s easy to bitch about life, to place the blame for your struggles on others, it’s much harder to participate in it.

Nothing will change so long as the Black community thinks it is someone else's job to provide for them. Right or wrong that mule they keep speaking about is not coming. It is just what the reality is. Even if they are right nothing is going to change unless they step up to the plate.

In case they haven't noticed it is their neighborhood that is being destroyed, not where the whites live. It's their lives that are disrupted not the whites. Right or wrong wherever they are they are contained and that is not going to change until they expand their horizons. The world is a hard place.

They could not be more different. That is the problem with some here. They are detached from the facts due to a bias that exists predetermining what they see as having happened here and with every case. They always go to it’s because they are black.

Says who, I for one don’t believe a word that these witnesses say. Why, because that’s what they always say. How many times do they admit the black guy was wrong? I never hear it. I am always amazed at the credibility give to the witnesses in these situations.

This would be damming evidence suggesting the cop lost it. If it’s true he was shot in the back and again when surrendering and again when he was down.

I agree, I think every case should make it to the news. Every time someone shoots someone their picture should be posted so we can all see who is shooting who in this country. What do you say to that Fern? As for cops shooting high trying to severely injure protesters. Maybe some do, there are bad apples everywhere. Yes strip them of their badge.

From the fist the community propaganda machine start with Brown being nothing but a great kid who was off to college. This tends to rile up the community even more. If it is fair for the community to paint Brown as a saint to the press and for all to see, then it is fair to show the press clips of him bulling and stealing. If, it was him.

My place in this is to suggest it doesn’t matter what happened. It is doomed to happen again and again because the black community is a mess. If that does not change I will see you here again in six weeks.

Who cares what Russia thinks? Except maybe the gays and for now the Ukrainians. It’s unfortunate but we have a race of people here who were wronged and after all this time still can not find a way to get up off their knees.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 10:54 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

more, but not certainly all, of THUGR's racists rants:

That should be a hint to you what you are dealing with within these communities.

Yes to a great extent. Especially if you are void of a back bone and cannot take care of yourself legally. Look at the success rate of graduating high school. Keep in mind these kids are held to a much lower standard then the rest. Many more of less get pushed through.

Let's be accurate ok? While what you say is true it is also true that most who live in these neighborhoods do nothing to help themselves. They do not pay for the services provided within those communities so complaining about the poor conditions is mute. I lived in the same neighborhood that a new complex was built and within a year there was graffiti as high as could be reached on all the buildings and not a screen left on the first floor. All the scrubs were dead as well as the grass.

What that suggests to me is the people living there are the problem. I am sure that is not what that suggests to you. Fine, nothing changes.

I always try to improve myself. Life is hard and I was dealt a hard blow. I did not have to worry about the cops. I had to look over my shoulder in my own home. I found out if you try there is plenty of help to be had. Just look at how hard the people from this community are defended on these threads. There is tons of money poured into helping them but far to many just what to take it and run. Not to also accept help in turning their lives around. I understand the odds are against them but what I am saying is what's accurate here. They must do it for themselves. They must turn their lives around.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Yes I agree with some of your suggestions. I would add that when time has been served they should be allowed to vote. At least until we notice they are putting people in place who are crime figures themselves. I don’t wish to be negative but it is a real possibility.

No to prison colonies and the death penalty. It actually cost more to execute someone than it does to lock them away for life. Rather than getting DA’s to lessen the charges against defendants I would suggest getting the defendants a better defense. Most defense lawyers are way over worked. Let’s also not forget DA’s like a high conviction rate so many who commit crimes simply walk or as you say plea bargain to get a lesser charge. There should be an independent group that looks for things like this and holds the DA accountable for stacking the deck against a defendant.

If a person from a bad neighborhood does well they leave most of this behind. Yes they are stilled followed in stores but as more join the ranks of the responsible things like that will occur less.

You will not get me to suggest that blacks and other minorities are not tread poorly in this country. That said once they decide to leave the world of being a victim things change dramatically for them. When asking Morgan Freeman if color played a big role in why blacks can't get ahead and if that's why their was so much income inequality, he responded not today. In the past yes but not today. He was asked that by another black man and he also said to him just look at you and me. It's not a problem for us.

Something I would add is the left helping those who behave badly to continue to do so. They do this every time they point to statistics that show a disproportionate amount of time a black is confronted for different reasons that whites. It is why I suggested to Fern that every time someone is shot we should print the face of those responsible for the shooting. If we did you would see a white face on occasion in a sea of color. If we showed their victims they to would represent a sea of color. So why then does the left complain when blacks get checked for guns more than whites?

What the left does from the safety of there community is deny the behavior within the community that perpetuates the police behavior adding to the problem. I would ask them how are the police in their neighborhoods. It would provide for and interesting discussion because I sure the police there are great.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 11:22 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Gonna take it from the last post, here.

THGRRI

Quote:
Says who, I for one don’t believe a word that these witnesses say.

Save for the fact that multiple witnesses who didn't know each other or of each others presence corroborated that information, and it's worth noting in cases like this, especially ones where there's video, the police are more often the ones lying, a fact handily verified by CATOs police misconduct database.

Quote:
This would be damming evidence suggesting the cop lost it. If it’s true he was shot in the back and again when surrendering and again when he was down.

Which is why they've been so twitchy about the autopsy, cause there's really no way to sanitize that one.

SIGNYM

Quote:
I know that blacks are arrested and charged with more crimes, I'm not sure that they actually commit more.

Bingo, yet another aspect of white privledge folks forget, the blind eye, hands off, free pass they get - in certain neighborhoods mind, cause past a certain point of poverty race matters less.

Oh, and apparently that video the police flaunted, which might not even be Brown, *may* have been a personal confrontation having nothing to do with the store per se (meaning that the merchandise was likely paid for) - the owner of the store has clammed up behind his lawyer, which is a smart move, but it is known he did not file a complaint or call for service, which he damn sure would have (would have had to for insurance and other reasons) if there'd been robbery/shoplifting.
A call for service WAS placed, but by a customer and so far the content/context is unknown, so this might have been a personal spat deliberately misconstrued by the police as retroactive ass covering.
I feel for the shop owner though, clamming up and hiding behind his lawyer is the ONLY thing he can do - if he sides with the cops, the community will all but lynch him, and if he DOESN'T side with them, they'll harrass and intimidate him right out of business and likely out of town entire, that's a no-win situation.

Also, someone at MotherJones wrote up a really halfass bit on why someone might resist arrest, but it comes off as pathetic cause they're dancing around the actual issue.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/six-reasons-black-person-m
ight-resist-arrest-michael-brown-dante-parker-eric-garner
They touch on it a tiny little bit, but the salient fact of the matter is that once you're in their custody, you are in their power, all your resources come through that filter, you only get to communicate if they let you, and there's no firm assurance you will survive the process.
Add to that a blatant admission by the officer that they intend your death, resistance starts making a LOT more sense - if they're gonna beat you ANYWAY, if they're gonna kill you ANYWAY, it's only logical to fight.

Another point is looking at how these confrontations start, in most of these cases the officer fucked up, in my opinion, by entering someone elses personal space in an aggressive and threatening manner PRIOR to having probable cause to actually do so.
AND then escalated the situation instead of defusing it.
Marc MacYoung has a handy checklist of dumb-shit-you-don't-do, and it's appalling how often police officers go right down the list, full throttle.
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/get_attacked.htm

Me, I call that picking a fight under color of authority, and it's a sign of either piss-poor training, the WRONG training, or institutional corruption of a massive scale, because officers should be trained to DE-escalate situations, not provoke and escalate them.

Case One in point, just last night at roundabouts 12:14am, I spot four young black guys on bicycles - now there's been some petty theft around here recently by folk matching this description, just stuff people left lying out so more simply opportunism instead of anything planned, and all during the day...
I tell folk to secure their stuff, but what can ya do ?
Anyways, them being here that late is escalation, prolly looking for a car with an unsecured GPS, maybe an apartment in a quiet spot with nobody home, scoping out the potentials, sure.
So I step out into the light about thirty yards away so they can see me, get themselves a good look, and wonder how long I been standing there, watching - they look at me, I look back, and give em a quick head flick towards the exit, message of "go on, beat it!"
Which they proceed to do, in a leisurely fashion just to be annoying, little fluff of defiance that makes em feel better about it, whatever.
Unbeknownst to them I'd placed an IR capable game trail camera covering the entrance by which they came and left, so I've got some nice pictures of the lot of em, just in case.

See, no fuss, no muss - no great, grand confrontation, nobody gets hurt, no hassle of paperwork... and unlikely they'll come back, as they're obviously new to the neighborhood, having come in here in the first place.
Besides, hell if I was going to step right into them and get snippy, four-to-one is pretty long odds for a old man with a gimpy leg, and even if it weren't, too damn much work.

Case Two was two older black guys sitting in an SUV in the parking lot by building 27, nothing to that, just some residents boyfriend shooting the breeze with a friend, and doing so in the vehicle to avoid disturbing her sleep, sure - obvious if you think about it, and even if it weren't, so long as they're *IN* the vehicle, zero threat, and given that I can hear a car door open for a quarter mile and this whole place ain't no bigger than that, not a problem - no need to storm up, demand ID, try to throw em out, they're not causing a ruckus or any harm to anyone, yes ?

All that bull-in-a-china-shop approach does is cause trouble, chaos and danger, creating the very things police are supposed to be preventing - and THAT, is an inexcusable failure of training, or lack of it.

-Frem

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 11:25 PM

Yep that is a lot of what I said but I did not check it all out. So I'll sum it up for you again. This all stays the same until these communities clean it up themselves. Until then you will continue to blame white people and this shit will continue to happen. If you think bitching that this is always the fault of others helps, you are little more than part of the problem. The next time a black kid kills another black kid you go right ahead and blame white folk for creating the problem. That's sure to fix it. As a matter of fact another one or half a dozen probably got killed as I typed this out.

You keep bitching 1kiki and pointing the finger over here. That's what you do best.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 11:35 PM

Fern I have no way of knowing if the cop is guilty. Neither do you. If he is he needs to be dealt with. That said I question your street sense in taking the witnesses word at face value. It could all be true but it may also not be. At least some of it. They say the cop shot the kid for no reason. They then say he shot him in the back and again when he tried to surrender. Then they say he shot him again as he stood over him. If that is true than the kid was assassinated. It just sounds a bit over the top. I will wait and see.

All my posts are about the mental health of black communities across the nation. They need to fix things from within. Outside assistance can help but if the black communities do not do it themselves, it will not get done. No amount of placing all the blame elsewhere will change a thing.

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Saturday, August 16, 2014 11:47 PM

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Now THUGR is an interesting stew of bad logic, self-delusion, ignorance and sheer hate.

THUGR claims it 'always' happens in black communities. Apparently it never happens in Hispanic communities. Or Asian communities. Or Native American communities. It never happens with Francophones living among Anglophones. Or to poor whites living among wealthy whites. Or Palestinians living in Israel. It's not due to a non-racial process brought about by limited opportunities being corralled by the powerful. It ALWAYS happens in black communities, because - can we talk? - they're black. Obviously.

So we have this big, and I mean GINORMOUS stereotype already, one indicating he certainly isn't going to view this with any degree of impartiality. Nope, it's going to go through that big filter of hate. Against blacks.

And what keeps things the way they are - certainly isn't due to ongoing racism, or any type of 'ism'. Despite all the studies that show 'discountedly equal' opportunity, reward, justice, representation and power for women, blacks, and Hispanics of equal ability and education doing equal work, it must certainly not be due to discrimination. No, it's because blacks have insufficiently changed from within. Apparently, if they try hard enough, their skin will turn white.

I find this to be an interesting statement, made without irony or understanding: "I have always understood I TOO was disliked because of my skin color while there." (in black communities) I just have to let this stand without comment.

Then there is his incomprehension about who owns what in those communities, and what is their role: "in many cases they destroy their OWN COMMUNITY even more looting and burning things down". Does he not understand that blacks don't own 'their' communities? That slumlords own the housing, corps own the fast food joints, and outsiders own the liquor stores? That those entities are rightfully viewed as predators, or at least parasites, by 'the community'?

"This kid is dead because of the culture that permeates throughout the black community and those who work there. ... He may have been a great kid with a bright future but is dead instead because of the communities’ culture of the past ... " Because, apparently the cop was not supposed to deal with an individual kid. No, the cop was supposed to react to a stereotype, and kill it dead. It's only normal, after all.

So, apparently, this is all the fault of the black community. They should just provide themselves with equal schools, jobs, housing, opportunity, rewards. Only they need to do anything different.

So says a racist THUGR.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
Hey Signy

I remember living in a slum when I was poor. I remember outrageously priced food that was spoiled in the package. Laundromats that ate your money but didn't work. Police that never showed up for a 911 call. Low rent and substandard living conditions. It sure seems everyone made money off that neighbothood except the people actually stuck living there.

Let's be accurate ok? While what you say is true it is also true that most who live in these neighborhoods do nothing to help themselves. They do not pay for the services provided within those communities so complaining about the poor conditions is mute. I lived in the same neighborhood that a new complex was built and within a year there was graffiti as high as could be reached on all the buildings and not a screen left on the first floor. All the scrubs were dead as well as the grass.

What that suggests to me is the people living there are the problem. I am sure that is not what that suggests to you. Fine, nothing changes.

That's moot , not mute .

And shrubs , not scrubs .

2 spelling errors in one post. I'd suggest that that's ignorant, not smart. Dumb, irrespective of the opinions.

I'd suggest that you not use big words, but those are pretty small.

Looks to me like Thuggery's doing nothing to better himself. Also, I note that he makes no mention of ever trying to clean up the neighborhood he lived in, or water the grass or "scrubs". So he brought it upon himself to live in such conditions, clearly, and because of that he deserves to die at the hands of police.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
Fern I have no way of knowing if the cop is guilty. Neither do you. If he is he needs to be dealt with. That said I question your street sense in taking the witnesses word at face value. It could all be true but it may also not be. At least some of it. They say the cop shot the kid for no reason. They then say he shot him in the back and again when he tried to surrender. Then they say he shot him again as he stood over him. If that is true than the kid was assassinated. It just sounds a bit over the top. I will wait and see.

All my posts are about the mental health of black communities across the nation. They need to fix things from within. Outside assistance can help but if the black communities do not do it themselves, it will not get done. No amount of placing all the blame elsewhere will change a thing.

Huh. You seem pretty quick to excuse the conduct of the police here, to say "Hey, let's not be hasty - we all know that ALL the problems black people have are brought upon them by being black."

Why would you blame one group completely and ask everyone to hold off any judgment on another group?

It seems a hypocritical, racist double standard you've given yourself.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 12:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Your police sound like arseholes

Not all are, but yeah, far too many.

It's those several million bad cops that really make the other seven look bad.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:24 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

It's those several million bad cops that really make the other seven look bad.

Cite ?

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I really did like Scrubs. Thanks to Netflix, I've been power viewing all 9 seasons. Great show.

Yeah, but they seem to not have it in the housing projects. or maybe they dislike it so much, they destroyed it.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Your police sound like arseholes

That's the difference between American cops and British, and I presume, Australian, ones.

I saw an episode of Cops once, the reality/docu-drama about, well, cops, where they followed the London Metropolitan Police around for a week. The bobbies encountered a crazy drunk waving a knife and threatening to kill anyone who bothered him. Bobbie says, "Now, sir, I don't think you really mean that," and talked the drunk into putting down the knife and surrendering. Here in America, it woulda been out with the Glocks and shoot him. Several times.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:47 AM

Clever of you, Kiki, to imply that his posts are only of value as bumps, but he's too dumb to get it. Seems like he did figure out, dimly, that you were snarking at him somehow, but he wasn't bright enough to understand exactly how.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 8:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
changing the goal posts

Hey, we all know that JSF is a Raptard sock puppet, (And, baby, if I can see it and say it, the evidence is overwhelming.) but I'm starting to think that Thug here is one also. He's got the same style of argument.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:18 AM

Frem,

once again, examples from your experience that lead to a sensible conclusion.
And thanks for the link to NoNonsenseSelfDefense. The Not-To-Do list from the guy (Peyton, I guess his name is.) boils it down to less than a Miranda Rights card. Cops should post it in their cars and have it just as available, to remind themselves to watch their behavior. It's worth quoting :

Quote:

1) Don't Insult Him
2) Don't Challenge Him
3) Don't Threaten Him
4) Don't Deny It's Happening
5) Give Him A Face Saving Exit (1)

If the cop in Ferguson had just rolled up beside those 2 blacks and said, "Hey, guys, for your own safety, I don't think you should walk down the middle of the street. Why don'tcha just go over there and walk on the sidewalk?"; maybe nothing would have happened.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:

All my posts are about the mental health of black communities across the nation. They need to fix things from within. Outside assistance can help but if the black communities do not do it themselves, it will not get done. No amount of placing all the blame elsewhere will change a thing.

Maybe you're not Raptard's sock puppet. Maybe you're just the ghost of Ross Perot.

'Member when he was running for President? He went to the NAACP Convention to make a speech about race relations and race problems. And he said something, widely quoted, along the lines of, " You people have to solve your own problems." Stuck the knife in his own campaign right there. Everybody jumped on him. "You people", suggesting that "I sure as Hell ain't like you." and "gotta solve your own problem." Because I sure ain't gonna help. Which was the entire point of his campaign-- I got mine, lots of mine, and I ain't gonna help nobody else, not with nothin'.

But you sure don't go into their house, to publicly make nice; try to build your credentials; and ask for their support, and then say something like that.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:54 AM

America loves a winner!

Ross was addressing a group, a specific group, who had invited him to speak. " You people " was a phony issue, fabricated by those who simply wanted to trash and old white guy who spoke w/ a Texas accent. Nothing more.

And when a group votes damn near uniformly ( 90% + ) the same way, and have problems which seemingly never go away, one might come to the conclusion that they could do more to help themselves.

If Louis Farrakhan and Bill Cosby can both honestly point out that the black community needs to do better FOR THEMSELVES , instead of looking to Big Govt for help, and Ross Perot can't say the same thing w/ out being called 'racist', then you have a great problem of being disingenuous.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 9:57 AM

1kiki

So 1kiki I see by your post you suggest this happens in Hispanic, Asian, White and poor American Indian neighborhoods as well. That’s a start. I see you agree with me this is not happening because they are black, as they always claim. Now you need to recognize that behavior plays a major role in this always happening. Sometimes it is a bad cop, but more times than not it is the dysfunction of the community that creates an atmosphere that boils over on occasion. If you do not believe the mental health in these communities’ function on a dysfunctional level, then you have no experience in how things are on the street.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:06 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

First you need to get off the spook hiding in the bushes shit. I am nobody's sock puppet. Last time I will have this conversation with you. As far as Ross goes I don't know if I would go as far as he, but he to realized the problem comes from within the community.

What is it you people believe? Do you think all the cops get out of bed each day and head out to try and disrupt the lives of others. All they want to do is make it through the day in one piece.

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:10 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

It's those several million bad cops that really make the other seven look bad.

Cite ?

"Do your own homework."

"I'll not be side tracked."

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

And when a group votes damn near uniformly ( 90% + ) the same way, and have problems which seemingly never go away, one might come to the conclusion that they could do more to help themselves.

See "NRA".

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

First you need to get off the spook hiding in the bushes shit. I am nobody's sock puppet.

Bushes, or tomato plants?

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Sunday, August 17, 2014 10:18 AM