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IVANPAH DRY LAKE, Calif. (AP) -- Workers at a state-of-the-art solar plant in the Mojave Desert have a name for birds that fly through the plant's concentrated sun rays -- "streamers," for the smoke plume that comes from birds that ignite in midair

Federal wildlife investigators who visited the BrightSource Energy plant last year and watched as birds burned and fell, reporting an average of one "streamer" every two minutes, are urging California officials to halt the operator's application to build a still-bigger version.

The investigators want the halt until the full extent of the deaths can be assessed. Estimates per year now range from a low of about a thousand by BrightSource to 28,000 by an expert for the Center for Biological Diversity environmental group.

The deaths are "alarming. It's hard to say whether that's the location or the technology," said Garry George, renewable-energy director for the California chapter of the Audubon Society. "There needs to be some caution."

The bird kills mark the latest instance in which the quest for clean energy sometimes has inadvertent environmental harm. Solar farms have been criticized for their impacts on desert tortoises, and wind farms have killed birds, including numerous raptors.

"We take this issue very seriously," said Jeff Holland, a spokesman for NRG Solar of Carlsbad, California, the second of the three companies behind the plant. The third, Google, deferred comment to its partners.

The $2.2 billion plant, which launched in February, is at Ivanpah Dry Lake near the California-Nevada border. The operator says it is the world's biggest plant to employ so-called power towers.

More than 300,000 mirrors, each the size of a garage door, reflect solar rays onto three boiler towers each looming up to 40 stories high. The water inside is heated to produce steam, which turns turbines that generate enough electricity for 140,000 homes.

Sun rays sent up by the field of mirrors are bright enough to dazzle pilots flying in and out of Las Vegas and Los Angeles.

Federal wildlife officials said Ivanpah might act as a "mega-trap" for wildlife, with the bright light of the plant attracting insects, which in turn attract insect-eating birds that fly to their death in the intensely focused light rays.

Federal and state biologists call the number of deaths significant, based on sightings of birds getting singed and falling, and on retrieval of carcasses with feathers charred too severely for flight.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Obama's wisdom of bankrupting the coal industry is paying off big time, huh?

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Originally posted by reaverfan:
Solar and wind tech continues to develop. It's getting both safer and more efficient every day.

The only people who fight it are the fossil fuel giants.

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

For all of you fussing about this, do you eat meat, ever?

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

For all of you fussing about this, do you eat meat, ever?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

For all of you fussing about this, do you eat meat, ever?

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Nice distraction from the issue, bird brain.


Humans are omnivores. Like our ancestors before us. What does eating meat have to do w/ the 100% senseless loss of life via wind turbines and solar collectors have to do w/ anything ?

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
There is no reason why most places in the Midwest to west shouldn't have solar panels on their homes.

... geothermal energy should also be used if available.

All buildings should be geared towards efficient heating and cooling - using ambient air and sunlight if possible.

Time for a complete change in how we do our infrastructure.

And I say this not because of global warming, or population growth, but just out of common sense. It's far less expensive to maintain buildings with these specifications.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

For all of you fussing about this, do you eat meat, ever?

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Nice distraction from the issue, bird brain.


Humans are omnivores. Like our ancestors before us. What does eating meat have to do w/ the 100% senseless loss of life via wind turbines and solar collectors have to do w/ anything ?

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Was he trying to imply that black people eat fried chicken?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

For all of you fussing about this, do you eat meat, ever?

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Nice distraction from the issue, bird brain.


Humans are omnivores. Like our ancestors before us. What does eating meat have to do w/ the 100% senseless loss of life via wind turbines and solar collectors have to do w/ anything ?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:

For all of you fussing about this, do you eat meat, ever?

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Nice distraction from the issue, bird brain.


Humans are omnivores. Like our ancestors before us. What does eating meat have to do w/ the 100% senseless loss of life via wind turbines and solar collectors have to do w/ anything ?

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Was he trying to imply that black people eat fried chicken?

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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
There is no reason why most places in the Midwest to west shouldn't have solar panels on their homes.

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Places that are rainier should have a water wheel and an generator

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, and geothermal energy should also be used if available.

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All buildings should be geared towards efficient heating and cooling - using ambient air and sunlight if possible.

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Electrical companies mass producing energy, whether fossil fuel based to investing in natural resources, are obsolete and will not be able to keep up with demand. Time for a complete change in how we do our infrastructure.

And I say this not because of global warming, or population growth, but just out of common sense. It's far less expensive to maintain buildings with these specifications.

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:


So riddle me this, raptard: Are animals ever killed in oil spills? When an oil refinery explodes, are there ever any animals killed? When fracking fluid leeches into the groundwater, has it ever been harmful to any wildlife, anywhere, ever? If a coal mine explodes, is it remotely possible that some birds, bats, insects, or other life forms (besides humans, of course) are killed in the ensuing disaster?

Help me out; I'm just trying to establish a baseline for what you think constitutes "sensible" loss of life as opposed to what you claim is "senseless loss of life".

I'll bet you money you won't give me a straightforward, honest answer to the question. How many lives does it take to become "senseless"? What's the magic number, so we all know not to come back and bother you until that number is reached?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

You understood my point, so the 'try English ' crap is yet just another mindless distraction.

First, oil spills are not the 'norm'. Spinning blades of a turbine and extremely high heat from solar collectors are normal operating procedures for the green energy alternatives.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
You posted SOMEthing, crappy, you actually didn't answer the question. The question was HOW MANY deaths do there have to be to be significant. (I hope you realize I'm paraphrasing, You DO know what that word means, right?)

So, do you think you can answer the question? Hint: the answer is a number.

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Affordable housing would be non-existent. I'm not saying it SHOULDN'T be done, I'm saying it just ain't gonna happen...

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If you have trees shading your home, or are in an apartment building, the up to $50,000 cost of a solar system http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/solar.html might not work for you.

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Assumes you got a stream in your yard

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Upfront costs are in the $25,000 range, and look like they'd require 20 years or so (compared to natural gas, which I use) to recoup the initial cost, even on geothermal heating sites.

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If you're building a brand new community, this'd be a good idea. Unfortunately, a lot of residences, especially in cities, are really difficult to retrofit.

[...]

It is. But its very expensive to tear down all the buildings folks currently live in and build new, efficient, buildings. Its going to take a while.

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