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Originally posted by AURaptor:
[

Frem's Counter current News ( CCN ) isn't a typo for CNN.

Try to keep up.

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FERGUSON, Mo. — Michael Brown was identified as a suspect in a strong-arm robbery of a box of cigars moments before he was shot to death by Officer Darren Wilson, police said Friday.

In an afternoon press conference, Ferguson, Mo. Police Chief Thomas Jackson said Wilson did not initially make a connection between the robbery and Brown,whose death spurred violent protests and unrest in the St. Louis suburb over the past week.

Wilson stopped Brown and a friend because "they were in the middle of the street, blocking traffic," Jackson said.

Hours later, however, Jackson told a slightly different story to CNN and NBC, saying that Wilson noticed Brown was carrying a box of cigars that had been reported stolen. Wilson, he said, initially stopped Brown for blocking traffic, but as he began driving past Brown, he noticed Brown was holding cigars.

At that point, Wilson "made the connection" that Brown might have been involved in a theft that had just been broadcast on police radio, Jackson said.

Jackson earlier released Wilson's name along with information that Brown was a suspect in the previous robbery. He said he released surveillance video tape and documents related to the robbery to satisfy freedom of information requests from the public.


His decision to release both bits of information at the same time has come under fire by residents and Brown supporters who said the police were trying to divert attention away from Wilson and justify the shooting by blaming Brown.

Jackson would not say why he released the information when he did the way he did, other than to say he was responding to freedom of information requests from the public about the robbery.

Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Brown's family, told USA TODAY the release of the officer's name alongside a robbery report naming Brown as a suspect "smoke and mirrors."

"There was nothing based on the facts that have been placed before us that would justify this execution style murder by this police officer in broad daylight," Crump said. "It's not enough that they assassinated him in broad daylight in the middle of the street. They also have to assassinate his character to try to get away with it."

He said police were trying to divert the public's attention from the crux of the issue. He added that police only releasing photos of the robbery suspect and not Wilson shows that the department will not be transparent.

He said Brown's family believes the police strategically waited to release the officer's name to justify the fatal shooting.

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I'm sure Ferguson tapes its police dept radio traffic, so can provide a tape of the broadcast, with time stamp.

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Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I'm sure Ferguson tapes its police dept radio traffic, so can provide a tape of the broadcast, with time stamp.

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Some of it at the dispatch end has already been released, via Anonymous.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/anonymous-releases-st-loui
s-police-dispatch-tapes

The officer in question didn't even inform his own superiors of the events initially and they had to hear about it from the freakin news, mind you.

-F

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

2 points, not necessarily arguin' with you :

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….Two
Ferguson’s elected officials are of a much different racial makeup than its population. In 2001, Ferguson was a majority African American city with zero African Americans on the city council. Ferguson has gained one African American city council member since then (17 percent of the council), but its African American population has increased to 67 percent. – http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2014/08/19/why-is-fergusons-government-

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….Two
I hope there is a trial for Policeman Darren Wilson. If a grand jury no bills Wilson, there will be plenty of awful Missouri history made.

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Originally posted by second:

All white juries are 16% more likely to convict black defendants than white defendants but the presence of just a single black person in the jury pool equalizes conviction rates by race. The effect is large and remarkably it occurs even when the black person is not picked for the jury. The latter may not seem possible but the authors develop an elegant model of voir dire that shows how using up a veto on a black member of the pool shifts the characteristics of remaining pool members from which the lawyers must pick; that is, a diverse jury pool can make for a more “ideologically” balanced jury even when the jury is not racially balanced. –- http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2014/08/the-impact-of
-jury-race-in-criminal-trials.html

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/hedy-epstein-arrested-ferguso
n-holocaust-_n_5689822.html

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Something Al Sharpton said while addressing the people of Ferguson tells the truth of why that is. 12% of Ferguson's eligible black voters actually vote. 12%, how the hell are you going to get the job if you don’t apply? How are you going to improve your station in life if you do not show up? It takes and effort to effect change and this is what needs to change. Sharpton recognizes this today and has changed his approach in these situations. He is beginning to point out some of the community’s culpability. This is what’s needed. Not the lefts continued excuse making for the behaviors within black communities.

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Originally posted by second:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Something Al Sharpton said while addressing the people of Ferguson tells the truth of why that is. 12% of Ferguson's eligible black voters actually vote. 12%, how the hell are you going to get the job if you don’t apply? How are you going to improve your station in life if you do not show up? It takes and effort to effect change and this is what needs to change. Sharpton recognizes this today and has changed his approach in these situations. He is beginning to point out some of the community’s culpability. This is what’s needed. Not the lefts continued excuse making for the behaviors within black communities.

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There are two articles explaining how the blacks are getting cheated in Ferguson:

Police are operating with total impunity in Ferguson
www.vox.com/2014/8/19/6043483/ferguson-police-impunity
White political domination of Ferguson is doomed
www.vox.com/2014/8/18/6029141/why-ferguson-government-is-so-white

If all the blacks in Ferguson can stay focused for years, and vote in every municipal election, then good can come out of this. But if not, then not.

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

officer recognized stolen items after stopping the kid.

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saw The Rap mention that one.

Haven't seen that item ANYWHERE ELSE, and I've been looking for it. I'd REALLY like to verify that. Don't suppose you have a source for that item of "anecdotal evidence? And how does that square with the PD Chief himself saying that the officer did not know about the reported crime at the liquor store?

Did this cop just get an ESP flash--"Hey, those cigars look just like the ones in the crime report I'm gonna get in a few minutes." Temporal telekinesis, a new police tool...?

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Originally posted by 1kiki:

Stranger still is the silence from Jesse & Al at all the black on black violence.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
Logical fallacy

try to find which one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

You and the other right whingers failed miserably at simple counting. Worse, when you were TOLD the numbers in the news, you failed to notice the glaringly discrepant graphic, cause, yanno, it showed what a miserable failure Obamacare was and that's all you wanted to know. That hit your gloat with a satisfying plop. And you literally couldn't see the facts.

But that's all in the past. Maybe you can redeem yourself by learning a little logic.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's not character assassination when you report the facts. It just isn't.

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
The VERY latest from CNN.com:

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Ferguson police chief: Officer didn't stop Brown as robbery suspect
By Greg Botelho, Michael Pearson and Ana Cabrera, CNN
August 15, 2014 -- Updated 2059 GMT (0459 HKT)

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http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/15/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html
?hpt=hp_t1

Let's tell it both ways, shall we? Maybe see what sticks.

With Raptard, of course, it's already settled: The kid was absolutely, beyond any reasonable doubt, Guilty;

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Change is hard and it means getting up off your knees.

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This is like that self-help pablum that they smear on the sick.

What poor neighborhoods need is JOBS. Poor neighborhoods are not about to re-create an entire economy in miniature, independent from the economy that they're embedded in.

So what the militarized police do... what their REAL function is... is to keep the poor folk bottled up in option-less situations in their poor neighborhoods so that wealthy folk can continue to enjoy their safe and comfortable lives.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Similar assessment to the whole Zimmerman/Martin issue.

-Frem

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Really? You mean the kid was high on weed? Carrying burglary tools? attempting to kill an armed non-black person? (OK, I'll give you that one for now, as well as possessing stolen property) Habitual repetitive criminal delinquent?
Just like Trevon Martin?
I had not yet heard all those facts come out.

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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And meanwhile, according to the FBI crime stats, blacks COMMIT far more crime, violent crime, over all by % than any other group.

Everyone just LOVES to talk about how badly blacks are treated by the cops, but no one wants to deal w/ the elephant in the room, that blacks commit far more than " their fair share " of crime in the first place.

Cause and effect, hon.

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I know that blacks are arrested and charged with more crimes, I'm not sure that they actually commit more.



When the policing is color-blind, I'll look at the stats, but right now they're tainted.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by ElvisChrist:



It's those several million bad cops that really make the other seven look bad.

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Cite ?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ut oh...

'more than a dozen people have backed up Ferguson officer's story'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2728772/Second-friend-cop-shot
-dead-Michael-Brown-comes-defense-say-s-quiet-respectful-guy.html


Hey NOBC !!! Does this count ?

I know it's not exactly what I was posting , but the fact that the story is being backed up by MULTIPLE witnesses leads credence to my prior post.

Brown was the aggressor, and the cop acted in self defense.

That's not ME saying that, but the story from many who claim they saw it, and the story ( allegedly ) that the cop himself has given.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:


Yes this is true and why people who rely on statistics alone are misguided. They look at those and shout prof, prof.

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Originally posted by second:


If all the blacks in Ferguson can stay focused for years, and vote in every municipal election, then good can come out of this. But if not, then not.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

officer recognized stolen items after stopping the kid.

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saw The Rap mention that one.

Haven't seen that item ANYWHERE ELSE, and I've been looking for it. I'd REALLY like to verify that. Don't suppose you have a source for that item of "anecdotal evidence? And how does that square with the PD Chief himself saying that the officer did not know about the reported crime at the liquor store?

Did this cop just get an ESP flash--"Hey, those cigars look just like the ones in the crime report I'm gonna get in a few minutes." Temporal telekinesis, a new police tool...?

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Not sure if your logic and curiosity have been satisfied since this post, or not.

I think I heard this on one of the following radio shows: Mark Levin or Dennis Miller (the previous evening) or Sean Hannity Show just prior to posting that reply. Sean has a website and a show on FNC as well, I think.

What I had understood was this:
The cop did not connect the black thug with the store theft at first, possibly because the shoplifting, having just taken place, had not been broadcast yet.
At some point during the incident, the cop either realized the thug had expensive cigars, or heard the broadcast of the recent shoplifting in the neighborhood, and noted the connection with the cigars in the hands of the thug.... er, um, unarmed teenage thug.

The Chief or whomever, stated the first part of the above, specifically in reference to a FOI request, which is usually handled (at the direction of some lawyer, like a Prosecuting Attorney) in the most non-effusive way, so as not to reveal too much of the case. The part about the non-connection was accurate AT THE BEGINNING of the interaction, but the Chief did not elaborate about the ensuing developments.

I'm not trying to confuse anything, but that was the way I recall what I had heard. Does that make sense to you?

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Originally posted by THGRRI:


I am not saying the cops are not overstepping their authority. What I am saying is that the press know exactly how to go about getting themselves arrested.

for accuracy, I snipped some here. Irrelevant stuff-- NOBC

What he did was so obvious it was an are you kidding me moment.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/hedy-epstein-arrested-ferguso
n-holocaust-_n_5689822.html

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About as easy a collar as the cops could hope for.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
get with the program here.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/hedy-epstein-arrested-ferguso
n-holocaust-_n_5689822.html

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About as easy a collar as the cops could hope for.

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

The Chief or whomever, stated the first part of the above, specifically in reference to a FOI request, which is usually handled (at the direction of some lawyer, like a Prosecuting Attorney) in the most non-effusive way, so as not to reveal too much of the case.

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:


I am not saying the cops are not overstepping their authority. What I am saying is that the press know exactly how to go about getting themselves arrested.

for accuracy, I snipped some here. Irrelevant stuff-- NOBC

What he did was so obvious it was an are you kidding me moment.

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And these professional police officers aren't trained to recognize provocation by people they encounter? Especially obvious provocation? And aren't trained in how to deal with unco-operative citizens who are asserting their own personal constitutional rights? And aren't taught the legal limits on their (police officers') power and authority?

Oh, yeah, I forgot-- this IS in Ferguson Missouri. They are taught how to do that stuff down there... Beat 'em with your nightstick. Gas 'em. SHOOT 'em. Handcuff 'em and arrest 'em, and then haul 'em to the station. Where their superiors, who ARE BETTER trained, dismiss the charges and let 'em go, because they know about the court rulings that say that police officers DON'T have the right to do that. And because the superiors know about the lawsuits that will be filed, and won, and upheld, because those are settled matters of legal precedent; and know about how much those lawsuits WILL COST, in fighting , and after they're lost, in settlement payouts.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
BCoat

You’re kidding right, you're concerned I misspelled a word?

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Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

At that point in time, the facts of Michael Brown also being a habitual criminal,

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:


I am not saying the cops are not overstepping their authority. What I am saying is that the press know exactly how to go about getting themselves arrested.

for accuracy, I snipped some here. Irrelevant stuff-- NOBC

What he did was so obvious it was an are you kidding me moment.

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And these professional police officers aren't trained to recognize provocation by people they encounter? Especially obvious provocation? And aren't trained in how to deal with unco-operative citizens who are asserting their own personal constitutional rights? And aren't taught the legal limits on their (police officers') power and authority?

Oh, yeah, I forgot-- this IS in Ferguson Missouri. They are taught how to do that stuff down there... Beat 'em with your nightstick. Gas 'em. SHOOT 'em. Handcuff 'em and arrest 'em, and then haul 'em to the station. Where their superiors, who ARE BETTER trained, dismiss the charges and let 'em go, because they know about the court rulings that say that police officers DON'T have the right to do that. And because the superiors know about the lawsuits that will be filed, and won, and upheld, because those are settled matters of legal precedent; and know about how much those lawsuits WILL COST, in fighting , and after they're lost, in settlement payouts.

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Yes they see it for what it is. Does that mean they let the person stay in a restaurant they are trying to close? Or continue to be belligerent? Or do they take him out forcible, meaning under arrest? What they do is arrest the person. Then the next day watch how they denied the reporter or whomever their rights plastered all over the news. Watch how they are portrayed as out of control. Which is exactly what the reporter did. Whenever a reporter becomes the story, 99% of the time it is lousy reporting from lousy reporter.

It is about sectionalism. A tendency to be more concerned with the interests of your particular group or region than with the problems and interests of the larger group, country, etc. In other words, stirring up the pot to gain ratings. Things are bad enough without creating false images due to your own behavior while reporting the news.

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I am not saying the cops are not overstepping their authority.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you," he writes. "Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/19/sunil-dutta-police-washington
-post_n_5692266.html

For too many it is impossible.

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
Nope Fern not the reason. Stop pretending you understand the street

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First off, maybe you oughtta stop calling him FERN. Give him some respect, asshole. He goes by the screen name FREM. And don't pull some crap about being dislexic or some shit like that. Either quit being malicious or learn to read and type.

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….Bcoat
Are you one of those Constitutionalists? Tea Partier, like JSF or Rap? Libertarian? Maybe you can show me in the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights, where a free citizen is required to do any of those things. Because it ain't in there. Ain't in the law or the court rulings. Oh, yeah, you suggested in another post that the law isn't important if you're a cop? ( Forgive me, that's "anecdotal." I can probably go back and find the post and document exactly what you wrote, if I want to work at it hard enough? Or maybe you'd care to find the post I'm "anecdotally" referring to? Maybe I heard it on the radio-- mighta been Hannity, or Beck, or El Rusho.

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And we're supposed to buy that shit from Breitbart, the same shitheads who posted a pic of a protestor throwing a tear gas grenade BACK at the cops while insisting it was a fuckin molotov ?
Riiiiight.

And apparently you missed EC's relevant post earlier, with cite from CCNews.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
And another thing...

No one is suggesting that even with young Michael having roughed up the store clerk and stealing $ 50.00 worth of cheap cigars did he DESERVED to die.

There still is the matter of what exactly took place when he encountered the cop.

The cop didn't know M.B. was a suspect, but because M.B. had just committed a strong arm robbery, he likely DID assume the cop was coming after him.

So far, the claims that the cop shot M.B. in the back have proven false. Makes one wonder what ELSE some have claimed took place didn't happen either.

That STILL does not clear the cop of being accused of 2nd degree murder, or what ever the charge he gets. And yes, I do expect something to happen to the cop, as the case proceeds.

Whether a hardened criminal or a choir boy, I still haven't seen evidence which justifies M.B. being on the receiving end of 6 + shots fired by the cop.

WAS he trying to wrestle the gun away from the officer ? IF that's found to be the case, then sadly , it may be the tragic conclusion of some really poor judgements made by a young man that day, resulting in his death.

Tox results still have to come in too, so folks need to chill the hell out and back off before they start making more baseless accusations.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:
All the witnesses said the cop shot him in the back. How is it all the witness saw him shot in the back?

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They didn't. They were LYING.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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….Bcoat
Are you one of those Constitutionalists? Tea Partier, like JSF or Rap? Libertarian? Maybe you can show me in the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights, where a free citizen is required to do any of those things. Because it ain't in there. Ain't in the law or the court rulings. Oh, yeah, you suggested in another post that the law isn't important if you're a cop? ( Forgive me, that's "anecdotal." I can probably go back and find the post and document exactly what you wrote, if I want to work at it hard enough? Or maybe you'd care to find the post I'm "anecdotally" referring to? Maybe I heard it on the radio-- mighta been Hannity, or Beck, or El Rusho.

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First you have a few grammatical and spelling errors. Perhaps you should check my spelling with a spell checker rather than rely on your spelling skills? Perhaps you think I misspelled a word and instead it is a word that is not in your vocabulary so you think it is something it is not? Second I am an independent who believes Republicans have gone crazy and Tea Partiers are nuts. Libertarians are very limited in scope as far as the world goes, and are more likely to vote against anything that helps minorities or the population in general. I don’t care for their views either. I don’t really listen to them much. I guess I should listen more so I can pin down how they are in effect separatists that do not see the country as a collective.

I actually thought the name was Fern. It is one of those things that I saw the first time and never looked back. I would point out the name caller in this thread is you. Care to go back and look at your posts as apposed to mine?

Why don't you try addressing what I post rather than the misspelling of a word. I have made two or three posts that you have responded to without touching on what I said. Only how I said it.

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