REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The tyranny of Big Small Government

POSTED BY: KPO
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 23, 2014 19:20
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Thursday, September 11, 2014 11:08 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I wonder what some of our professed libertarians think of this:
Quote:

The problem is what you might call Big Small Government.

The town of Ferguson, while tiny in scale, is an Orwellian monstrosity. Its racially biased Police Department is the enforcement wing of a predatory system of government described in scathing detail in a recent report by ArchCity Defenders, a Missouri legal-aid nonprofit. The city’s white-dominated council governs a mostly black city, and its oppressive, biased justice system is an instrument of fiscal (in additional to social) domination. Court fines account for a fifth of the city’s revenue. Police officers disproportionately search black drivers, even though they disproportionately discover contraband among white ones. The city issues three warrants per household, and its draconian justice system appears designed to bleed its victims. The report notes, “A Ferguson court employee reported that the bench routinely starts hearing cases 30 minutes before the appointed time and then locks the doors to the building as early as five minutes after the official hour, a practice that could easily lead a defendant arriving even slightly late to receive an additional charge for failure to appear.” While arming these officers with Green Zone–style weaponry may restrict their ability to engage in humane policing, the deeper problem is that they simply don’t want to.

There are not many people who find their freedom so unjustly impaired by the government in Washington as the people of Ferguson are by their local government. And yet while Ferguson—an unusual city populated mostly by blacks and governed mostly by whites—lies somewhat outside the norm, it is hardly a freakish anomaly. Big Small Government is all around us. We simply haven’t trained our minds to notice it.

...

It is not that American conservatives consistently favor the expansion of state and local government, but merely that they see it as inherently superior to the federal version. (In the words of Paul Ryan, “government closest to the people governs best.”) Thus, conservatives have directed their energies primarily against Washington. The association is so deeply rooted that even figures who are staring directly at a different kind of problem—at Big Small Government—simply cannot see it.

...

It may seem intuitive that physical proximity makes a government more accountable. This is the image small-­government acolytes conjure when they praise the virtues of local government against the distant capital. But even if it was once true that geographic space inhibited representation, back when a congressman’s journey to Washington consumed days of travel, it is certainly no longer. Who do you know more about: your senator or your state legislator? How about your city council member?

The political scientist Steve Rogers recently studied state legislative elections and found something disheartening and, if you think about it, utterly unsurprising. Since 1910, state house elections almost perfectly track U.S. House elections. The correlation, to be precise about it, is 0.96. Which is to say virtually none of us—even those of us who bother to vote—form judgments of any kind regarding our state legislators. We respond to the national mood, which is shaped by our response to Washington, mainly the president, whose party we punish or reward depending upon national conditions. This means that state legislators operate almost entirely free of any practical accountability from their constituents. Their good deeds will not be rewarded, and only their most flamboyant corruption or illegality will be punished. Their only electoral incentive lies in belonging to the right national political party. The operating conditions of a state legislature are likely to create good government only by accident, if at all. Predatory government functions that would stand little chance of survival in the sustained glare of national politics thrive at the state and local levels.

...

The myth of localism is rooted deep in our political psyche. Left and right alike use small and local as terms of approbation, big and bureaucratic as terms of abuse. None of us is equipped to see that the government that actually oppresses us is that which is closest to us.


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/09/ferguson-worst-government
s.html

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 3:59 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



Sounds like a bunch of hyperbole and whining to me.

Don't like your govt ? Change it.

Quote:

Police officers disproportionately search black drivers, even though they disproportionately discover contraband among white ones.


Sounds like a specious and fanciful claim.

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 4:22 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:

Quote:

Police officers disproportionately search black drivers, even though they disproportionately discover contraband among white ones.


Sounds like a specious and fanciful claim.



It comes from a report that came out in August:

Quote:

ArchCity Defenders, which has tracked ticketing of St. Louis area residents for five years and focused primarily on vehicle violations, started a court-watching program because so many of its clients complained of traffic prosecution wreaking havoc on their lives. Defendants routinely alleged that a racially-motivated traffic stop led to their being jailed due to inability to pay traffic fines, which in turn prompted people to “los[e] jobs and housing as a result of the incarceration.” In other words, defendants alleged that racial profiling, for traffic tickets, propelled them deeper and deeper into the cycle of poverty. The ArchCity report does not allege racial profiling; however, it is clear that many of the people stopped for traffic violations feel that they were targeted for their race.

Of the 60 courts St. Louis County municipal courts observed by ArchCity, 30 were accused of engaging in illegal or harmful practices. “Three courts, Bel-Ridge, Florissant, and Ferguson, were chronic offenders and serve as prime examples of how these practices violate fundamental rights of the poor, undermine public confidence in the judicial system, and create inefficiencies,” according to the report.

The paper points out that in Ferguson, 86 percent of vehicle stops “involved a black motorist, although blacks make up just 67 percent of the population.” In addition, blacks stopped in Ferguson “are almost twice as likely as whites to be searched (12.1 percent versus 6.9 percent) and twice as likely to be arrested (10.4 percent versus 5.2 percent)”. Searches of blacks only results in discovery of contraband 21.7 percent of the time, whereas contraband is recovered from their less frequently stopped white counterparts 34.0 percent of the time.



http://www.newsweek.com/ferguson-profiling-police-courts-shooting-2647
44?piano_t=1


It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 4:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


The concept of proportionality is fallacious itself. It implies that only x% of a city should comprise x% of ... anything that goes on in that city.

But what if in fact more of a certain group DOES engage in a specific activity ?

I repeat my initial comment. Sounds specious and whiny.


Don't like your govt ? Change it. But the concept of the tyranny of small govt is nonsensical.

Also, aren't you trying to convict Officer Wilson for the imagined sins of others ? What if the facts of the case exonerate him ? What then ?

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 5:34 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Why all white government if the black folk vote?

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 5:45 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
The concept of proportionality is fallacious itself. It implies that only x% of a city should comprise x% of ... anything that goes on in that city.

But what if in fact more of a certain group DOES engage in a specific activity ?

I repeat my initial comment. Sounds specious and whiny.


Don't like your govt ? Change it. But the concept of the tyranny of small govt is nonsensical.

Also, aren't you trying to convict Officer Wilson for the imagined sins of others ? What if the facts of the case exonerate him ? What then ?


Are you suggesting that if the majority of scientists vote for him to be guilty then it should not become the truth?

That's just crazy talk.

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 7:05 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

The concept of proportionality is fallacious itself. It implies that only x% of a city should comprise x% of ... anything that goes on in that city.

But what if in fact more of a certain group DOES engage in a specific activity ?


But can you explain why blacks' vehicles are searched significantly more, when only 1 in 5 searches of black-owned vehicles yield contraband, while 1 in 3 searches of white-owned vehicles yield contraband? That suggests to me that police officers search white-owned vehicles only when they have a reason to think they'll find something, but they search black-owned vehicles sometimes without reasonable suspicion (hence they are less likely to find anything).

Quote:

I repeat my initial comment. Sounds specious and whiny.

Are you questioning the statistical findings of the report?

Quote:

Also, aren't you trying to convict Officer Wilson for the imagined sins of others ? What if the facts of the case exonerate him ? What then ?

This thread is more to do with systemic injustice, than the particulars of that specific case.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, September 11, 2014 7:41 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


If this were a real issue, such matters would have been brought up in town meetings and discussed. Elections take place, and officials can be replaced.


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Saturday, September 13, 2014 11:54 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


You didn't answer about why black drivers have their cars searched so often, when those searches rarely bring up anything compared to white drivers? Have you just dismissed that statistic because it doesn't fit your worldview?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Saturday, September 13, 2014 11:59 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Nope. I didn't.

"Those are governed best who are governed least."
-- Thomas Jefferson


Seems the locals have some amending of their local govt to do, if they so desire.

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:19 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Nope. I didn't.


Yeah, no problem. Every so often you get questions that stump you, and you don't know how to answer. I wouldn't worry about it.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 9:29 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Nope. I didn't.


Yeah, no problem. Every so often you get questions that stump you, and you don't know how to answer. I wouldn't worry about it.

It's not personal. It's just war.



I just don't see how it connects to the Ferguson police shooting case, is all. I don't know the full story, whether or not that statistic is accurate, if there are other mitigating circumstances... I think some are looking far and wide for answers to things when the actual case is still yet to be solved. There's a rush to judge not just the officer, but the entire police force and govt of Ferguson.

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Sunday, September 14, 2014 5:04 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


I already told you it's not about the shooting case, it's about the background and the bigger picture in Ferguson, and cities like it - namely, a white-dominated police force, and a black community that feels mistreated by it.

As for the 'rush to judgement', I've not been following the case that closely, but the basics I've picked up are that the policeman shot an unarmed black man, who, several eye witnesses have said, had his hands in the air at the time. Is that accurate? If it is, it's hard to think of circumstances whereby the police officer was justified.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:20 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Was wondering about the Danielle Watts case - LAPD arrests her for kissing her boyfriend because he is white, meaning she is a prostitute?

Or is that a separate issue?

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Wednesday, September 17, 2014 8:15 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Worth remembering, KPO, that slime like Rappy and his blatantly obvious sockpuppet JSF, as well as the scum they serve, do everything in their power to keep minorities from voting, via harrassment, bullshit felony convictions, voter rolls purging, or what have you...

Because given their slimy scumbag BEHAVIOR, the ONLY chance they have of retaining or securing public office, is the mass-disenfranchisement of those they have shit on, EVERY CHANCE THEY GET.

And if "those people" actually get a chance to vote, they're fucked, and they KNOW it, you see ?

-Frem

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Thursday, September 18, 2014 5:33 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Was wondering about the Danielle Watts case - LAPD arrests her for kissing her boyfriend because he is white, meaning she is a prostitute?


Another worrying case.

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, September 18, 2014 5:36 AM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:

Worth remembering, KPO, that slime like Rappy and his blatantly obvious sockpuppet JSF, as well as the scum they serve, do everything in their power to keep minorities from voting, via harrassment, bullshit felony convictions, voter rolls purging, or what have you...

Because given their slimy scumbag BEHAVIOR, the ONLY chance they have of retaining or securing public office, is the mass-disenfranchisement of those they have shit on, EVERY CHANCE THEY GET.

And if "those people" actually get a chance to vote, they're fucked, and they KNOW it, you see ?

-Frem


I'm sure for some people at the top of the GOP, disenfranchisement of minorities is a strategy. But for people like Rap, political disenfranchisement of certain people actually becomes a way to conveniently ignore abuses against them:

"If this were a real issue, such matters would have been brought up in town meetings and discussed. Elections take place, and officials can be replaced."

Fucked up, no?

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Thursday, September 18, 2014 5:31 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Was wondering about the Danielle Watts case - LAPD arrests her for kissing her boyfriend because he is white, meaning she is a prostitute?


Another worrying case.

It's not personal. It's just war.


Do you feel this is a similar case/issue, or separate?

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Friday, September 19, 2014 7:36 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Was wondering about the Danielle Watts case - LAPD arrests her for kissing her boyfriend because he is white, meaning she is a prostitute?


Another worrying case.

It's not personal. It's just war.


Do you feel this is a similar case/issue, or separate?


Well the police are saying they were responding to a call they'd received that the actress and her bf were having sex in public, so it seems reasonable for the officer to follow this up. And so if there were any racial assumptions made it would be from the person who phoned the police (if the actress and bf were acting innocently).

It's not personal. It's just war.

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Tuesday, September 23, 2014 7:20 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Was wondering about the Danielle Watts case - LAPD arrests her for kissing her boyfriend because he is white, meaning she is a prostitute?


Another worrying case.


Do you feel this is a similar case/issue, or separate?


Well the police are saying they were responding to a call they'd received that the actress and her bf were having sex in public, so it seems reasonable for the officer to follow this up. And so if there were any racial assumptions made it would be from the person who phoned the police (if the actress and bf were acting innocently).


Even if the caller was racist, that does not give the officer the go-ahead to ignore any sense and compound the injustice - perhaps the cop has not heard that people are innocent until proven guilty, unlike in Mexico.
This really does sound racist to me, but are you thinking this is not in the same or similar category as what you were referring to?

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