Our beloved Russia is Falling, Yikes by THGRRI

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Our beloved Russia is Falling, Yikes

POSTED BY: THGRRI
UPDATED: Monday, January 12, 2015 07:34
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3552
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, January 7, 2015 12:52 PM

Putin Blames the West for Russia’s Woes—and Russians Believe Him

"The country is profoundly corrupt; it ranks 136th of 174 nations in Transparency International’s 2014 survey -- below Nigeria, Mozambique and Pakistan. The country is in shambles".

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2015/01/07/Putin-Blames-West-Rus
sia-s-Woes-and-Russians-Believe-Him

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 7, 2015 1:37 PM

THGRRI

Dead on G. I thought it was time to start posting the truth about Russia instead of just reading about how screwed up the rest of the world is as presented by a couple of Bolsheviks.

Much more to come.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 7, 2015 3:13 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/two

From http://standpointmag.co.uk/node/5889/full
Political confabulation in Russia was first described by the great theologian Vladimir Solovyov more than 100 years ago:

Let us imagine a person healthy in body and strong, talented and not unkind — for such is quite justly the general view of the Russian people. We know that this person (or people) is now in a very sorry state. If we want to help him, we have first to understand what is wrong with him. Thus we learn that he is not really mad; his mind is merely afflicted to a considerable extent by false ideas approaching folie de grandeur and a hostility towards everyone and everything. Indifferent to his real advantage, indifferent to damage likely to be caused, he imagines dangers that do not exist, and builds upon them the most absurd propositions. It seems to him that all his neighbours offend him, that they insufficiently bow to his greatness and in every way want to harm him. He accuses everyone in his family of damaging and deserting him, of crossing over to the enemy camp. He imagines that his neighbours want to undermine his house and even to launch an armed attack. Therefore he will spend enormous sums on the purchase of arms, revolvers and iron locks. If he has any time left, he will turn against his family. We shall not, of course, give him money, even though we are eager to help him, but will try to persuade him that his ideas are wrong and unjustified. If he will still not be convinced and if he perseveres in his mania, neither money nor drugs will help.

Even Solovyov could not offer an explanation, but his amazingly accurate description, written in 1893, seems to be just as valid today. And this will doubtless be investigated for a long time to come.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 7, 2015 3:52 PM

KPO

Sometimes you own the libs. Sometimes, the libs own you.

The Russian economy through history (this was from the beginning of this year, before the current ruble crisis):

It's not personal. It's just war.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 7, 2015 3:55 PM

THGRRI

Nice post TWO and a good read at the end of the link as well.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, January 7, 2015 7:19 PM

THGRRI

Russia wants to manipulate through intimidation. This is a shot over the bow.

Updated Jan. 7, 2015

BERLIN—A website affiliated with pro-Russia hackers took responsibility for an online attack on Wednesday that brought down key German government websites, including that of Chancellor Angela Merkel , for several hours.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/pro-russia-group-says-it-hacked-merkel-web
site-1420632466?mod=wsj_hpp_sections_world

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, January 8, 2015 12:13 AM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

whatever

FWI, the corruption perception index listed by Transparency International hasn't moved since 1995. 1995 - 1999 that was Yeltsin. Was he a friend of the US? He was, wasn't he? It's so hard to tell. Then there was Medvedev 2008 - 2012. Was he a friend? In either case - that corruption you seem to lay at Putin's feet is an old tradition carried out by friends and foes, or sometimes people who are both, for decades.

Meanwhile life expectancy under Putin has taken a dramatic upturn.
[img]
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Russian_male_
and_female_life_expectancy.PNG/450px-Russian_male_and_female_life_expectancy.PNG [/img]
That evil man. Obviously he's no good for the people.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, January 8, 2015 10:55 AM

THGRRI

Corruption is perhaps the main reason for regime change in the Ukraine and a split from Russia.

FBI Helping Probe Ukraine 'Kleptocracy'

"U.S. officials including FBI agents are in Kiev helping a Ukrainian-led investigation into corruption under ousted president Viktor Yanukovych, the U.S. ambassador to Kiev said on Monday.

"We are doing what we can to unpack the enormous kleptocracy which surrounded the Yanukovych government," Geoffrey Pyatt said at a press conference in Kiev.

"We have already on the ground here in Ukraine experts from the FBI, the Department of Justice and the Department of the Treasury," the ambassador told reporters.

Pyatt also said there were "a variety of other international governments" assisting in the Ukrainian investigation "to uncover the financial crimes that were committed by the previous regime and to see what can be done to recuperate some of those assets."

The European Union last week froze the assets of Yanukovych, ex-premier Mykola Azarov and 16 former ministers, businessmen and security chiefs -- all on grounds of fraud".

http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/122009

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, January 9, 2015 8:19 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by G:
It seems like it's the first and only choice for how to get things done, like there are no other options

I did research in an ex-Soviet country a few years back, and we regularly budgeted bribe money to get our equipment in. The one year we didn't pay the bribes it took 9 days of complete circus-like nuttiness to get our equipment. At one point they told us - no kidding - that we had to pay a fee but it was illegal for them to tell us how much the fee was.

"As for proof for this hypothesis, there is none, but Martynov claims that since the Americans are really behind the whole Islamic State thing, of course the Paris attack was really the work of the CIA … "

Sounds like a theory of siggy's. Wouldn't be surprised if she jumps right on it.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, January 9, 2015 7:11 PM

THGRRI

The Russian population understand about propaganda and corruption. The problem is that they see it as normal behavior worldwide. They won’t acknowledge that in Russia corruption is on steroids. They also believe propaganda is a legitimate form of dealing with those who would be aggressors against Russia. Look at the unreasonable stances 1kiki and SIGNYM always take. To them anything negative said about Russia is war. This is why they have been waging a war against the United States at least as long as I have been posting here. That’s why G when Alexey Martynov says outrageous things about the tragedy in Paris he does not lose all credibility with the Russian people. They see it as a defensive maneuver in a so called propaganda war being waged against them by America and Europe. It appears by the degree of stupidity in the reporting in Russia that there is no limit to the lies they will embrace at the expense of the truth.

Right now they think America and Europe is out to get them. Before the Berlin Wall came down they would have done anything to live with the same freedoms and rules of law as we do here in America and the rest of Europe. How soon they forget. Their worst enemy comes from within. Yes America is not perfect but Russia we are not. My hope is Putin doesn't start WW111 in an attempt to save face. If he stays on his current path the rest of the world will be afraid to invest there for a very long time to come. All the ex satellite countries looking to the west is a result of Russia's unhealthy ways. Not European and American propaganda.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, January 10, 2015 2:10 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There in Russia, the rich break the law. Here in the USA, the rich pay for the laws to be rewritten. See??? No corruption!

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, January 10, 2015 8:12 AM

THGRRI

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
There in Russia, the rich break the law. Here in the USA, the rich pay for the laws to be rewritten. See??? No corruption!

Since you say you do not live in Russia perhaps you should visit. Then you may recognize the difference. The Russian people are oppressed. When opposition to the ruling party winds up in prison, the population is oppressed.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, January 10, 2015 10:38 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:

Since you say you do not live in Russia perhaps you should visit. Then you may recognize the difference. The Russian people are oppressed. When opposition to the ruling party winds up in prison, the population is oppressed.

Well, that's an interesting point, because here in the good ole' USofA, we have the second-highest rate of incarceration in the world.... commonly quoted at 1000 per 100,000 population, but listed by Wikipedia at 707 adults per 100,000 population. (Maybe the discrepancy comes about when we include incarcerated children. The Syechelles is the highest, and I have to wonder what the heck is going on there.)

So, since we seem to find it necessary to imprison so much of our population, what does that say about oppression at home?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2015 11:40 AM

THGRRI

Right on G….

I suggested in another post perhaps on another thread, that SIGNYM starts threads about injustices not because of concerns for the little guy, but instead as a spear head for an attack on this country and Europe. I mean think about it. As much as you can find things in America and Europe to complain about that points to the little guy getting screwed, you can use that same information to compare things in Russia and show they are much worse off. Yet with SIGNYM it is not on her agenda to point that out. I would remind some here about her support for Russia’s backing of Bashar al-Assad, the butcher of Syria, or for the ruling class in Iran.

SIGNYM again you are talking apples vs oranges. In America and Europe we are free. In Russia, Iran and Syria they are not. There is no form of life lower than that of someone who enjoys freedom taking up the cause of a government that does not extend it to their own population. You SIGNYM and 1KIKI are RATS.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2015 12:34 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
It's very obvious she does not care about the Russian people - how could she support a government like that if she did? -G

Have you even read my previous posts about injustice, and WHY I point to the USA?

Apparently not with comprehension, or you wouldn't keep making the same stupid points over and over again.

First of all, there are those sheer numbers of people killed, impoverished or displaced. If you were to take a OBJECTIVE look at the USA against all of the other nations in the world - Russia, China, Israel and the Saudi/Qatari-funded radicals included ... heck, make sure to include any and all of the "bad guys" that I'm sure you'd like to point a finger to - the reality is that the United States has killed, injured, displaced, impoverished, and imprisoned FAR MORE than any other nation in the past 50 years. Not only has the USA done this in the "historical past", it continues to do this TODAY. I cannot find a single thing that Russia or China has done that even comes close. Not even Pol Pot in his heyday did the kind of damage we do. Yanno, I know this just seems like so much noise to you, but that's the problem: your concern for people is on a sliding scale: If they're people WE'VE killed, they don't count, but if it's something (your current bogeyman) Russia has done, you get out the magnifying glass.

I don't need to provide a link to all of the "interventions" that the USA has committed, where we overthrew democratically-elected governments and replaced them with tyrants who would represent our banks and industries better (although I've already done that). All I need to do is look at our military expenditures compared to "everyone else", SO TAKE A CLOSE LOOK. (I'm typing in caps because I hope that these points will stick this time)

Looks specifically for Russia and China. Where do they fall on the chart???

In the grand scheme of things, they do NOT have the world-straddling military that we do. They are NOT about to "take over the world", as WE have done. All they have is enough for defense of their nearby area.

----------------

Second, it's a case of responsibility. I have no authority over what Russia does or what China does. As much as I absolutely despise what Israel does ... and I do despise them for running the largest open-air prison since the Warsaw Ghetto ... I'm not here railing about them because it's not my country, even though they ARE the largest recipients of our "foreign aid". I'm not here railing about Saudi Arabia or Qatar either, although they DO provide a fuckuva lot money to al Qaida and ISIS, and Saudi Arabia IS a religious tyranny and our nominal ally.

Nope, I look at the USA because THIS is where my tax dollars go, as G has pointed out more than once, and THIS is where I get a chance to vote.

Quote:
In America and Europe we are free.

I would like you to think about that for a while.

Quote:
In Russia, Iran and Syria they are not.

Nor are they free in Saudi Arabia, Palestine, Bahrain.

Not free on Jordan. Not free in Iraq, Libya, or Afghanistan either ... and, wow, WHO set up that situation? Many EU nations have no control over their budgets and economies, with the IMF, EC, and ECB forcing them into a literal great-depression-level of poverty.

God, you guys are fucking morons, with apologies to the mentally challenged who are far and away better human beings that you are.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2015 12:52 PM

THGRRI

We talk about freedom and the plight of the oppressed and you post subjectively about the defense budget of America. Once again nothing about those who live under the thumb of dictatorships and the worst of the worst who practice nothing but corruption. Nope, instead just another attack against the west.

Bombs and guns helps keep Russia out. Do you have enough to meet this threat???

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2015 12:59 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
We talk about freedom and the plight of the oppressed and you post subjectively about the defense budget of America.

MY GOD, THUGR ARE YOU BEING STUPID ON PURPOSE??? Do you have ANY idea what the word "subjective" means?

There is nothing MORE subjective than freedom and oppression. There is nothing MORE objective than number of dead, and dollars spent. YOU'RE the one being subjective.

Holy crap, batman, I'm aghast at your ignorance.

Quote:
Bombs and guns helps keep Russia out.

Of where? The USA? Do you see Russia planning to invade some time in the near future?

Jesus, my jaw dropped when I read your post. I'm going to have to pick it up off the floor. It's clear that I'm trying to communicate with someone who's at the level of bot. I have more important things to do than try and discuss with someone who insists on being a tool.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2015 1:00 PM

THGRRI

Yeah right.

Bombs and guns helps keep Russia out. Do you have enough to meet this threat???

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2015 1:14 PM

MAL4PREZ

Typical. Sig can not discuss Russia and Russia alone. Every thread has to turn into a dump on the US and Europe and whoever is the enemy of Russia, as if the very well-known flaws of the western world excuse any and all of the insane bullshit the Russian government does. Like a RWA brain, she is incapable of staring straight at the authority she worships. Her brain deflects, every time.

And because the non blind here are able to discuss the flaws of one system without the constant deflections, she invents this idea that we all worship western govts. Like rappy, she cannot understand what it is to live in a non-RWA brain. We can stay on one topic, where she can't fathom it. Unless we worship like she does.

I read an article about something oddly related, about how people ruled by emotion can't dispassionately discuss hot topics, while logical brains can go there without being freaked. I've yet to see the sig brain focus purely on Russia and its flaws without going directly to: "oh yeah, well the US / Ukraine does THIS...."

Never mind that this site is full of threads where every one of us air our grievances at the fcukedupedness of the US govt and economy with nary a mention of Mother Russia....

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2015 1:18 PM

THGRRI

Well said, yep well said.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2015 1:19 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Nope, sorry, you out moron us by miles - and you make it look so easy too. Every time you post these same numbers about the US... (I'm typing in caps because I hope that these points will stick this time) I AGREE WITH YOUR SORRY STUPID ASS. Try reading MY posts once in a while. And you forgot to add how much I hate US Health Care, how bad our Senior Care is... I'd go on but YOU WON'T READ IT, SO WHY BOTHER??

DO YOU FINALLY GET THAT, MOTHER-OF-ALL DUMB FUCKS???

Well, at least a response that means something!

All I get out of your posts, G, is that you hate Russia generally and Putin specifically. EVERYthing that Russia does, is THE WORST, even if it's not as bad as Saudi Arabia or Mexico or the USA.

Take any metric you want, ANY metric-
level of corruption
healthcare
LGBT oppression
military interventions
- and you'll find some way to post about Russia negatively, although on an OBJECTIVE scale Russia's not all that bad when compared to other nations.

You want to talk about corruption? What about Greece, Mexico, Italy, and Saudi Arabia? There, they've taken corruption to a whole new level. (BTW, in westerners' experience with Putin, when he was in St Petersburg as a low-level functionary, he was the one official who did NOT take bribes. Westerners who worked with him then really remarked on it. He understands that corruption is a real problem in Russia, just as Xi Jingping does. When you see functionaries fleeing Russia, as you're currently party officials feeling China, you'll know that he's sweeping house.)

You want to talk about LGBT oppression? How about Saudi Arabia specifically, our stalwart ally? You can throw in most Islamic states in there too.

You want to talk about oppression of foreigners? I can think of nothing more disgusting that Israel's treatment of Palestinians. Not only do they have them economically blockaded, forced them out of their homes, taken their land, and harassed them on the land they have left

ever few years, they shoot at them like fish in a barrel.

Yanno, I DO feel for the Russian people, but the problems that the Russian people have with their government ... that's for THEM to solve.

AFA eastern and southern Ukraine is concerned, the best solution would be to hold a referendum ... after months of preparation, discussion, and negotiation to sharpen the options available and educate everyone on the topic ... and then do whatever the people have decided. Russia doesn't want eastern and southern Ukraine. It doesn't. It makes no economic or military sense for Russia's future.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2015 1:35 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Typical. Sig can not discuss Russia and Russia alone. Every thread has to turn into a dump on the US and Europe and whoever is the enemy of Russia, as if the very well-known flaws of the western world excuse any and all of the insane bullshit the Russian government does. Like a RWA brain, she is incapable of staring straight at the authority she worships. Her brain deflects, every time.

And because the non blind here are able to discuss the flaws of one system without the constant deflections, she invents this idea that we all worship western govts. Like rappy, she cannot understand what it is to live in a non-RWA brain. We can stay on one topic, where she can't fathom it. Unless we worship like she does.

I read an article about something oddly related, about how people ruled by emotion can't dispassionately discuss hot topics, while logical brains can go there without being freaked. I've yet to see the sig brain focus purely on Russia and its flaws without going directly to: "oh yeah, well the US / Ukraine does THIS...."

Never mind that this site is full of threads where every one of us air our grievances at the fcukedupedness of the US govt and economy with nary a mention of Mother Russia....

MAL4, I'm reacting the way I am because Russia is a created enemy. Its' not a threat to us, it never wanted to be. Russia tried to fit in to the western world, did the whole economic "shock therapy" treatment which plunged the nation into such economic havoc that the lifespan actually dropped ten years. And even then, it played along, and tried to become a reliable economic partner. Heck, they even asked to be part of NATO.

All I'm seeing is just like the great buildup to ANY war that the USA has decided on: hammer on some nation relentlessly. Harp on their internal failings. Accuse them of being oppressors. Accuse them of some heinous acts. Shift the goalposts. Run unflattering pictures of the most recognizable leader. Present them as some sort of urgent danger. Keep drumming on that for as long as it takes to get "the people" behind you.

It's just like Iraq playbook. Saddam was a tyrant. He was a threat to his neighbors. He tried to buy yellowcake. He was developing missiles. He bought centrifuge tubes. He was training jihadists. He had WMD programs... heck, we didn't KNOW what kind but chemical! Nuclear! Biological! Look! Look at these pictures!

He could have avoided war, if only he let in the UN Inspectors. ... oh, into his palaces ... and with free rein, no pre-notification of inspection targets. He DID all that, but in the end, it was our bombs that drove out the inspectors (UNMOVIC).

We tried the same thing, chapter and verse, with Assad. We did the same thing with Libya. Panama: pineapple face Noriega, tyrant, and drug runner. The bigger the target, the more the wind-up.

So I was here, arguing against all of the hype about Iraq. It's not because I loved Saddam, but it was clear that we were all being drowned in propaganda, being stampeded into war.

I'm just trying to bring some reality to the situation, and clearly failing. But how many times do we have to get fooled before we realize WHEN we're getting fooled?

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2015 5:54 PM

MAL4PREZ

And again sig, you avoid the topic. Not capable of discussing Russia without the lens of blaming the US.

It's very 1984. The book. People give in to authority when they have a convenient enemy of that authority to fear and blame, so they always have the out: "but but but that other baaaaad group have done this and that!" And so the deniers keep their focus elsewhere and never have address the naked truth of whatever it is they must deny.

And no, I don't deny what is bad about western govts and the US in particular, but this thread is not about the US. Shame you can't give up the filter sig. I used to think you had a useful brain. And you do, on other topics. But certainly not this. You've made that abundantly clear.

I do wonder what it is that ties you up in knots about Russia, but I don't expect to ever know. I don't think you'll ever know yourself. That filter is too strong.

*-------------------------------------------------*
What trolls reveal about themselves when they troll:
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=57532
*-------------------------------------------------*

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, January 11, 2015 6:01 PM

THGRRI

MAL4PREZ got it right SIGNYM. Once again you offer a defense of Russia while blaming the U.S..No one here started attacking Russia, they just started speaking to what is going on over there. You and 1kiki have presented nothing but lies and propaganda in response and created the atmosphere we have today.

You on the other hand have been attacking the west long before the Ukraine reared it's ugly head. Holding the west libel for all the worlds woes is a staple in your diet.

Quote:
SIGNYM

MAL4, I'm reacting the way I am because Russia is a created enemy. Its' not a threat to us, it never wanted to be.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE