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For years, the history of Auschwitz's liberation was simple. Soviet forces — consisting of Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians and others — liberated the camp on Jan. 27, a day that is now honored as International Holocaust Day.

But recently this history has been called into question by some foreign officials, sparking a new political controversy.

On Wednesday, Polish Foreign Minister Grzegorz Schetyna said in an interview with a Polish radio station that "the first Ukrainian front — the Ukrainians — opened the gates of the camp and liberated it."

Schetyna's remarks provoked a swift reaction from Russia's Foreign Ministry, which said in an official statement that individuals from throughout the former Soviet states "fought in the Red Army that liberated Auschwitz."

The gates of the Auschwitz main camp were opened by Soviet major Anatoly Shapiro, a Jewish officer born in the Poltava region of today's Ukraine. In September 2006, Shapiro, who led a Red Army battalion of about 500 men, was declared a Hero of Ukraine by then-president Viktor Yushchenko.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
It seems a lot of Americans are pretty ignorant about the war on the Eastern front. I've said it before, but in terms of ferocity, cruelty and casualties, it makes the western front look like a school boy stoush. Estimates as high as 21 million Russians died.

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
It seems a lot of Americans are pretty ignorant about the war on the Eastern front. I've said it before, but in terms of ferocity, cruelty and casualties, it makes the western front look like a school boy stoush. Estimates as high as 21 million Russians died.

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As Stalin gained strength and confidence in his battle against the German invader and in his ability to manipulate the Allies, he began to make it clear that he had no intention of giving up his claims to Poland.

The advancing Red Army crossed into former Polish territory in January, 1944 and quickly began to establish control in all areas as they became conquered.

Despite a coordination of efforts between the Red Army and Polish Home Army units in their common fight against the Germans, the Soviets quickly acted to eradicate Home Army members following their victories. Immediately following the cessation of fighting, the NKWD disarmed the Poles then either absorbed them into existing Red Army units or Polish units under Soviet command. Officers were arrested with many being shot and the balance imprisoned and/or deported to Siberia.

Any attempts by Polish underground administrators to organize or enter regular governing bodies were thwarted by the arrest of the individuals involved on the usual grounds of anti-communist activity. Already by this time the Soviets had established their own puppet government for Poland, the "Lublin" government, which began to operate in former Polish territories as they became liberated. Despite its superficially Polish character, this new administration was tightly run by the Soviets and could not prevent the Soviets from returning to their oppresive method of rule begun during the original occupation of 1939-41.

On July 29, 1944, the Soviets had advanced to and entered the eastern suburbs of Warsaw. The Polish underground was encouraged to fight the Germans by the Soviet controlled Polish Radio (the "Kosciuszko" station) in Moscow. The attack on Warsaw by the Soviets appeared imminent while the Germans decided to dig in. The Polish Government-in-Exile considered this the last opportunity to create and establish an independent, non-Soviet government in Poland.

The Warsaw uprising (August 1, 44 - October 2, 44), covered extensively elsewhere, did not succeed. The Soviet infantry stalled its advance and the air force sorties over Warsaw came to a halt. A few Home Army detachments fighting alongside the Red Army headed to Warsaw to aid the insurgents but were first disarmed by the Soviets before being allowed to proceed. The Soviets also refused to allow the Allies to use Soviet air bases to bring in supplies for the fighters (only 10% of the fighters actually possesed weapons). The Germans sensed the lull on the part of the Soviets and ultimately sent some 40,000 well equipped men to take the city, which they did. In time, following the German retreat, the Soviets finally entered the city in January 1945."

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
I feel we've had this discussion before on this board.

The Germans did double cross and then invade Russia, so while their actions were deplorable, it's not as if the NAZIS didn't have it comin' to them.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

The Germans did double cross and then invade Russia, so while their actions were deplorable, it's not as if the NAZIS didn't have it comin' to them.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

The Germans did double cross and then invade Russia, so while their actions were deplorable, it's not as if the NAZIS didn't have it comin' to them.

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That's quite right, and that's why everything the Russians did to the Germans was justifiable ... just as justifiable as America killing 250,000 Japanese civilians with 2 A-bombs.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

The Germans did double cross and then invade Russia, so while their actions were deplorable, it's not as if the NAZIS didn't have it comin' to them.

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That's quite right, and that's why everything the Russians did to the Germans was justifiable ... just as justifiable as America killing 250,000 Japanese civilians with 2 A-bombs.

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Sure Sniggy. And my crazy Uncle Marvin rode "Fat Man" all the way in.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Easier to release a bomb over a city and fly away than to systematically rape and beat every woman you find in country,and then kill indiscriminately, as you work your way to Berlin, but I guess both are hell.

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Originally posted by G:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
So, why did Sig's dad hate Jews ?

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Polish birthright? She made the case that Pols were anti-jew so I utilized Siggy's Black & White Negative Assumptive "thinking" to connect the 2.

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So, why did Sig's dad hate Jews ? _RAPPY

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Not loving, and even despising Israel is rooted in something.

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Originally posted by 1kiki:
She was also complaining about the kids in the yard back from her place being excessively noisy in the pool; and if I remember correctly, she said she wasn't sleeping well. Sadly, it seemed like she was unraveling. I don't think it was anything that happened here, tho certain items have since become a focus.

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So I will continue to mock

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Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:

sig and her socksister ...

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:

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Not loving, and even despising Israel is rooted in something.

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It is rooted in the fact that despite its manifest military superiority, Israel uses its might to maintain the largest open-air prison since the Warsaw Ghetto. The circumstances of Palestinians in Israel is pretty much like the circumstances of Jews in Warsaw. It is a complete historical irony that Israeli Jews have become like what they once feared.

This is a bit like the expansion of the USA across the west: there WERE people living there before the land was given to "the immigrant settlers" and displaced Civil War survivors. Europeans and Americans "gave" Palestine to the Jews out of a sense of guilt, but also the recognition that they didn't want to give up their land for a Jewish state, so they did the next best thing: they gave away somebody else's land.

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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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Originally posted by G:
I doubt any one really cares what you post on this subject any more Kiki. You have put your foot in your mouth, and then shot yourself in that foot so many times that it would be silly to listen.
Evidence has been posted, over and over - your posts are little more than static.

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Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:


Magons - RWED has been toxic sludge for years. Glad you caught on. ;)

In fact, I made a similar post myself probably around, oh... 2007. Might have even included the word "toxic". I long ago quit taking RWED in any way seriously. It's just fun to see how these twisted brains keep twisting themselves. Helps me to remember that there really are people like this out there. Which explains a lot about how fucked up the world is, I guess.

BTW, I didn't list sig as one of the seriously twisted until she went off the deep end about Russia. Wow. Image totally blown lol!

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I agree with all of this, especially the last bit. Sig has revealed a glimpse (if it's true) about why she is so invested and feels such ownership of all things Eastern Europe/Russia from her personal history. It explains a lot, but it doesn't excuse her behavior.

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In 18 pages of posts about Russia and Ukraine, to only marginally assign any responsibility to Russia is pretty unfathomable imho. Imagine an 18 page thread 'America Invades Iraq' in which someone continually cited Russia's past bad behavior as a way to divert and deflect attention from the US - wouldn't that seem just a bit shifty? Wouldn't that be the very definition of someone who couldn't have a reasoned discussion?

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"If you disagree with me you must be incapable of reason."

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Wow, another thread bites the dust.

RWD is now officially a toxic site where people ONLY demean and belittle one another. It's pretty much dead to me.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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I believe that map is in the process of being updated.

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Wow, another thread bites the dust.

RWD is now officially a toxic site where people ONLY demean and belittle one another. It's pretty much dead to me.

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Why don't you try redirecting the RWD's into conversations that spark real debate based on honest posts. You can do this by rewarding these type threads with your participation while ignoring threads started for the purpose of spreading lies and propaganda. How about you try that before giving up and leaving this discussion thread to the trolls.

What say ye?

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:

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Originally posted by THGRRI:

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Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Wow, another thread bites the dust.

RWD is now officially a toxic site where people ONLY demean and belittle one another. It's pretty much dead to me.

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Why don't you try redirecting the RWD's into conversations that spark real debate based on honest posts. You can do this by rewarding these type threads with your participation while ignoring threads started for the purpose of spreading lies and propaganda. How about you try that before giving up and leaving this discussion thread to the trolls.

What say ye?

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I've tried in many threads. It doenst get very far before devolving into a flame war.

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I get that. Maybe we could ignore the obvious finger pointing agenda selling posts and continue on. Posters who do not get responded to may change their approach. If you always give in to the child throwing a fit, then they will always throw a fit. Get where I am going with this?

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