Quote:

---

Russian President Vladimir Putin has revealed he planned the annexation of Crimea four days before unidentified gunmen appeared in the region.

Crimea was formally absorbed on 18 March, to international condemnation.

Russia denied instigating the revolt against Ukraine, but in a forthcoming film, Mr Putin says he ordered work on "returning Crimea to Russia" at an all-night meeting in February.

The talks were called to plan the rescue of Ukraine's deposed president.

A trailer for the documentary was shown on state-run television Sunday night though a release date has not been confirmed.

Mr Putin is seen describing the meeting, held during the night of 22 and 23 February, with the heads of Russia's special services as well as its defence ministry.

"I invited the leaders of our special services and the defence ministry to the Kremlin and set them the task of saving the life of the president of Ukraine [Viktor Yanukovych], who would simply have been liquidated," Mr Putin says.

"We finished about seven in the morning. When we were parting, I told all my colleagues, 'We are forced to begin the work to bring Crimea back into Russia'."

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by G:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
Get ready for our two Russian spin doctors. First they will have to look to Russia for their talking points and then they will relay them to us.

---

Maybe they are taking advantage of the cease fire to reload? Or the transpacific cable is down.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by THGRRI:
What ever they chose to do it will include a flat out denial they lied or mislead anyone.

---

Quote:

---

I seem to recall someone who used to post here pointing this out about theses two ladies till he decided not to bother anymore. This was before I actually joined the site. I can't remember who that was but he called it right. It appears he no longer posts here.

---

Quote:

---

Mal4Prez
"Again I can do nothing but point and laugh. I have not argued with "Miker" before tonight. On purpose. To flush you out".

---

Quote:

---

Mal4Prez
"Sig undergoes an extreme change in personality after I poke her/it about her years-old symbiosis with Rap".

---

Quote:

---

Mal4prez
"Again I can do nothing but point and laugh. I have not argued with "Miker" before tonight. On purpose. To flush you out".

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1kiki:
“It was the night of the 22nd,” Putin told Rossiya One’s Andrey Kondrashov. “We were done by 7 am. And I won't conceal it, when we were saying goodbye, I told my colleagues – there were four of them – that the situation in Ukraine has evolved in such a way that we have to start work on returning Crimea to being a part of Russia. We couldn't abandon the territory and people who live there, couldn't just throw them under this nationalist bulldozer.”


Very different 'quotes'. You'd think that if someone is being electronically recorded and there's no ambiguity about what might have been heard or remembered, a simple quote would be the easiest things to get right.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Geezer:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1kiki:
“It was the night of the 22nd,” Putin told Rossiya One’s Andrey Kondrashov. “We were done by 7 am. And I won't conceal it, when we were saying goodbye, I told my colleagues – there were four of them – that the situation in Ukraine has evolved in such a way that we have to start work on returning Crimea to being a part of Russia. We couldn't abandon the territory and people who live there, couldn't just throw them under this nationalist bulldozer.”


Very different 'quotes'. You'd think that if someone is being electronically recorded and there's no ambiguity about what might have been heard or remembered, a simple quote would be the easiest things to get right.

---

Putin gives his interviews in English now?

Difference probably derives from differing translations from Russian - the BBC's vs. your's which appears to be from RT.

Guess it depends on who you believe is more likely to spin it, BBC or RT.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
Ha! Yep. You want to dance so bad Thug! Desperate for it. You could tell I'd forgotten your roots and was treating you like a normal poster, so you had to refer to "that guy who left." You just had to poke at it. Either you wanted me to remember what you are so you could get me to dance, or you wanted to gloat over how I didn't remember.

And yeah, bring Miker back. The one who deleted all his posts like a whiny scared little sock. That was priceless! Even more so that he remains your hero.

As for anything else you have to say - whatever! You've been playing these games for years. I know your pattern. I will mock you all I want, whenever I want. But nothing you can say will be taken personally by me. I know what you are, and you have no idea who I am. You try so hard to push my buttons but, as usual, you thoroughly fail.

Again - carry on. Sorry for the hijack. :)

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kpo:
Oh God, she's quoting RT as an authoritative source again...

I see no contradiction between the quotes; why can they not simply be two separate statements Putin made?

It's not personal. It's just war.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1kiki:
Putin gives his interviews in English now?
Difference probably derives from differing translations from Russian ...

Really? That doesn't account for whole missing sentences. I honestly don't know how you can post that presumption with any pretense of mental ability ... because ... translation involves leaving out many sentences .... ???

... the BBC's vs. your's which appears to be from RT.

Which is where this whole - hey it's been RECORDED - fact comes in. And ... you REALLY want me to believe the western press doesn't spin the news? REALLY? I'm not sure if you're that misleading, or if I should be insulted because you thinkl I'm that naive.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by 1kiki:
So you're of the 'BUT --- PUTIN!' crowd?

Because - it doesn't matter what Putin says, what information is considered, what facts exist - the US gets to do what it wants because ... 'BUT --- PUTIN!

---

Quote:

---

Funny... or troubling... that the twins are quiet at the same time Putin is MIA?

---

Quote:

---

Wait, now wasn't there a thing when she or the twin denied using RT all the time, then when you showed proof they disappeared?

---

Quote:

---

Russian President Vladimir Putin has revealed he planned the annexation of Crimea four days before unidentified gunmen appeared in the region.

Crimea was formally absorbed on 18 March, to international condemnation.

Russia denied instigating the revolt against Ukraine, but in a forthcoming film, Mr Putin says he ordered work on "returning Crimea to Russia" at an all-night meeting in February.

---

Quote:

---

BWAHAHAHAHAHA! You're totally sh*tting everyone, right? Did you type that with a straight face? And if someone - god forbid - would ever stick a gun in your face would you say you *voluntarily* gave your money to them?

---

Quote:

---

G, do you suppose it's even remotely possible that you can leave your prejudices at the door before you start posting? Just OOC, were you terribly surprised by 9-11? -SIGNY
So, no comment on the documentary? "Deflection" must be a very popular word in Russia...

---

Quote:

---

What prejudice? Not to trust any government? It would be pretty naive to trust any of them - I don't know how you do it.

---

Quote:

---

...Sig The reason why I asked about 9-11 is because I wasn't surprised by it; in fact, I was a little relieved that it wasn't worse. Anyone who didn't see it coming was asleep. Please, wake up.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
No, the reason why I mentioned 9-11 is because for most Americans it was a huge, existential shock.

For the first time it came clear to many Americans that people around the world hate us and are willing impose their vengeance in some really horrible ways.

My point wasn't whether we deserved it or not, but that fact that so many Americans were so terribly, terribly surprised.

Why were they?

It's because they live in a bubble, think in a bubble, and interact in a bubble.

--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.

---

Quote:

---

Yeah, I don't think so. The list of bombings around the globe directed at us up until that point left little to ponder about what they thought of America

---

Quote:

---

MOSCOW — Russian President Vladimir Putin personally directed his nation’s capture of Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula, he said in a documentary aired Sunday, in which he offered details of his deep involvement in last year’s quick and effective takeover.

Putin said that Russia had flooded the Black Sea peninsula with special forces officers in the days after President Viktor Yanukovych fled Kiev in February 2014, and Putin said that the success of the precision operation surprised even him. With Kiev in chaos, Putin said, he was ready at the time to put Russia’s nuclear forces on alert.

The more than two-hour-long documentary, called “Crimea: Path to the Homeland,” offered new details about Putin’s actions between Yanukovych’s late-night escape from Ukraine’s capital on Feb. 21, 2014, and Russia’s annexation of Crimea less than four weeks later. Russia is planning celebrations this week to mark the March 18 anniversary of the annexation, and the lavishly financed film was a kickoff.

Putin’s account gave fresh insight into a fast-moving military operation that caught both Ukraine and its Western allies off-guard. Last year, Putin initially denied that Russia had anything to do with the armed men who wore no identifying insignia as they seized key Crimean infrastructure in the days after Yanukovych was deposed. Putin later said they were special forces units — and even created a holiday in their honor.

In the documentary, Putin said he had ordered special forces, marines and paratroopers to be deployed “under the guise of reinforcing our military facilities in Crimea.” Putin said that Russia did not violate any treaties because it was allowed under its long-standing agreement with Ukraine to station up to 20,000 soldiers on its Crimean military bases, and that number was never breached.

The planning for the seizure of the peninsula began after an all-night meeting that began when Yanukovych fled his presidential residence on the outskirts of Kiev, Putin said. Russia had previously said that it annexed Crimea because the peninsula’s population demanded it after alleged threats to Russians in Ukraine.

The revised account confirms what many had long deemed self-evident — that the idea for annexation originated more inside the Kremlin than in Crimea itself. But Putin said he would not have taken Crimea had its residents not desired to unite with Russia.

Secret polling conducted ahead of the official referendum led Putin to believe that 75 percent of Crimeans wanted to join Russia, he said. He said that he had never thought about “dismembering” Ukraine until Yanukovych was deposed.

Putin said that Russian special forces helped Yanukovych and his entourage flee to Russia after a trek across Ukraine that eventually ended in Crimea.

Crimean residents overwhelmingly voted to join Russia in a hastily organized referendum, but Kiev and the West have said that the referendum was illegal and illegitimate. Many opponents of annexation refrained from voting rather than voting no.

“You know what our advantage was? The fact that I was doing this personally,” he said. “Not because I did everything correctly, but because when it is done by the top person in government, it’s much easier for those who fulfill orders to work.” Ukrainian forces in Crimea were ill-organized after the collapse of the government in Kiev, he said.

“We were ready” to raise Russia’s nuclear forces to a high state of readiness, Putin said. “But I proceeded from the belief that it would not go so far.”

The annexation of Crimea led to a cascade of conflict that has opened vast new rifts between Russia and the West. More than 6,000 people have died in fighting in eastern Ukraine, where Kiev and its Western allies say that the Kremlin is fueling a pro-Russian rebellion. Putin denies it.

The new geopolitical confrontation has also reshaped Russia’s internal politics, consolidating support for Putin and isolating dissenting voices. The degree to which Russian life now revolves around Putin has been dramatized by his unexplained 10-day absence from public appearances, which has caused frenetic speculation among Russia’s elite. He is scheduled to snap the streak on Monday with a meeting with the president of Kyrgyzstan. The Kremlin has maintained that Putin is simply busy with his regular routine.

---

Quote:

---

Considering how few sources you actually do cite, and of those that you would actually choose to cite a world wide known Kremlin mouth piece such as RT, then yes, your use does seem "constant."

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by G:

Perhaps I should have said: Kiki's linked contributions are constantly dubious? Is that better?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by MAL4PREZ:
And yeah, bring Miker back.

---

Quote:

---

Vladimir Putin’s new faux documentary is trying to rewrite the history of his own aggression.
By Lucian Kim

Vladimir Putin ended his unexplained 10-day disappearance on Sunday night by beaming himself into the living rooms of his fellow citizens. The Russian president wasn’t any more or less alive than the day before, but political reality in Russia is determined by what’s on Kremlin TV. For almost 2½ hours, Putin starred as the hero of a faux [insinuation] documentary titled Crimea: The Way Home.

Broadcast on the state-run Rossiya channel, the docufiction [more insinuation] was timed to the eve of the first anniversary of Crimea’s disputed independence referendum, held after thousands of Russian troops had seized the peninsula following the Maidan protest in Kiev. The film has little in common with journalism so [so much like wester press!] as a result, offers few new facts. Yet it provides insight into what makes Kremlin propaganda so effective—and how Putin is trying to rewrite history.

Russian propaganda has come a long way since the days of the Soviet Union. If in North Korea petrified announcers shout the day’s patriotic achievements in sing-song voices, in Russia, the news is presented no differently than in the West: by plastic anchors in sleek studios aided by fancy computer graphics. Sunday’s film was professionally made, with lots of aerial shots and a dramatic soundtrack. No expense was spared for the most comprehensive account to date of Putin’s great Crimean adventure.

The film intersperses snippets of an interview with Putin in a chronicle featuring Crimea’s leadership, Russia’s top brass, and members of the “people’s militia” who rose up against the pro-Western government in Kiev. Documentary footage is mixed with reenactments to create a collage of fact and fiction whose purpose isn’t to document what happened, but to hammer home the narrative that Russia’s lightning covert operation saved Crimea from Ukrainian “fascists,” if not direct NATO intervention.

Russian propaganda has come a long way since the days of the Soviet Union.

I was in Crimea last year as the Russian takeover began, but even as an eyewitness who could see through the film’s many distortions, I found the Kremlin’s version of events vaguely alluring. [And those distortions were...?] For someone who had not been there—and bombarded with the same message for the past year—the effect would be overpowering. Insinuation, montage, and unprovable “facts” are washing millions of brains of their critical faculties. [Just like here! So many unprovable facts!]

In the film, the commander of Crimea’s “Berkut” riot police claims the United States provided Maidan protesters with information on Ukrainian crowd-control methods gleaned during a bilateral exchange program. [What was offered as evidence, if any? Training documents? Classes held?]

Russian special forces stopped an attempt by activists from Pravy Sektor, a far-right Ukrainian group, to poison the water supply of the Crimean capital Simferopol. [Any evidence offered? If there was, was the evidence scrubbed from this review?]

Commandos from the FSB, the successor agency to the KGB, politely replaced a door they had broken down while storming a Ukrainian military base in Crimea. [Was this videoed and in the documentary?]

The film’s creator, Rossiya news presenter Andrei Kondrashov, makes no effort to present the other side—

[Well, shut my mouth! When was the last time you saw western media attempting to portray the Russia side? Russian media is held to a higher standard that western media??? WHOODA THUNK?] not even to get a lazy “no comment” from the Ukrainian or U.S. embassies in Moscow.

Kondrashov was reportedly one of more than 300 Russian journalists who received a medal from Putin for “objective coverage of events in Crimea” last year. [Is there any indication that he wasn't objective? Did he report event on the ground as they happened ... as opposed to western reporters who reported on Donbas from Kiev?] The Ukrainian government responded by awarding him with the distinction of persona non grata. [Yes, because Kiev has always been honest and objective!]

Kondrashov distinguishes himself as a particularly sycophantic Putin interviewer. There are no tough questions and no attempts to challenge the Russian president’s past statements, for example Putin’s strenuous denials during the Crimea mission that Russian troops were in any way involved. Instead, Kondrashov lobs one softball after another to the Russian president. “Did you have any doubts you’d succeed?” Putin: “I didn’t have any doubts.”

Putin effectively becomes the second narrator, as the film is his attempt to justify the annexation of Crimea for posterity. “Our advantage was that I was personally dealing with it,” Putin tells Kondrashov. Unlike the dithering Ukrainian leadership and their failing state, Putin says he could give clear commands that went straight from top to bottom. It’s practically a defense of dictatorship: Without an opposition, checks and balances, or any other restraints, Putin was free to act as he saw fit. [LIKE OBAMA, WHO CAN DRONE ANYONE FROM A KILL LIST?]

On the night of Feb. 22, 2014, Putin says he called his top security officials to the Kremlin. Viktor Yanukovych, the Ukrainian president, had just fled Kiev after the protests against his pro-Russian policies ended in bloodshed with dozens shot dead on the Maidan. The first order of business was saving Yanukovych, who, against Putin’s advice, had withdrawn his security forces and left the capital. Putin says he ordered an airborne commando unit to locate Yanukovych’s motorcade south of Donetsk and fly him to safety.

“I told all my colleagues—there were four of them—that the situation in Ukraine had gone so far that we were forced to start working on returning Crimea to Russia,” Putin says. “We couldn’t simply leave that territory—and the people who live there—to their own fate.”

The longer he talks, the more Putin contradicts himself. “The end goal wasn’t the seizure or annexation of Crimea but to give people the opportunity to express their opinion on how they want to live,” he says at a later point. Putin claims that he immediately ordered his administration to conduct a secret opinion poll in Crimea, which found that 75 percent of the population wanted to join Russia. What came first, second, and last—and whether it happened at all—is wholly unimportant. In the end, Putin reverses cause and effect, arguing, “We had to act in order to prevent what’s happening in eastern Ukraine.”

The swift, bloodless annexation of Crimea raised hopes among many inhabitants of eastern Ukraine that by occupying a few government buildings and demanding a ramshackle referendum, they too could force a massive Russian intervention. What they got instead was a bloody insurrection led by a former Russian special forces colonel named Igor Girkin, who claims to have taken part in the Crimean operation and then “set the flywheel of war in motion” in the Donetsk region. Girkin was the military commander of the Donetsk rebels until August, when he was abruptly recalled to Russia.

In Kondrashov’s film, Putin doesn’t see the need to hide the role of Russian special forces in Crimea anymore. Putin takes perverse pride in revealing the details of the secret mission to bring Crimea “home”—from rescuing Yanukovych to buzzing a U.S. warship in the Black Sea. He gloats in the big lie that his soldiers weren’t involved and invites all Russians to join him. Last month he designated Feb. 27 “Special Forces Day,” the anniversary of the deployment.

It’s almost comical how Putin instructs Kondrashov that there was nothing illegal about the sneaky takeover of Crimea. Under an agreement with Ukraine on Russia’s Black Sea Fleet base, 20,000 Russian troops were allowed to be stationed on the peninsula. “Strictly speaking, we didn’t violate anything,” Putin explains. Less strictly speaking, that agreement certainly didn’t provide for those troops to wander off base en masse, seize airports, besiege Ukrainian military units, and cut off Crimea from the rest of Ukraine. As for the Kremlin’s puppet government that was voted into power after Russian special forces seized the Crimean parliament building? “Everything was observed according to Ukrainian law.”

The real lawbreakers, of course, are the meddling Americans. “Formally, the Europeans primarily supported the opposition,” Putin says, recalling the Maidan protests against Yanukovych. “But we knew perfectly well that the real puppet masters were our American partners and friends.” They were the ones who trained nationalist fighters in western Ukraine, Lithuania, and Poland, and then helped carry out a coup in Kiev, according to Putin.

It’s always hard to tell how much of his own Kool-Aid Putin has imbibed. But Crimea: The Way Home presents a scary vision of where Russia is headed. Besides Putin, a whole rogues’ gallery of characters play their bit roles in the film: soldiers, rebels, bikers, an ex-gangster—exactly the same people Putin has surrounded himself with and considers the pillars of his regime. The students, entrepreneurs, intellectuals, and civic activists who drive social change in healthy societies—and spearheaded the Maidan protest—are completely absent.

[I find this whole statement to be contradictory to what the USA practices. When STUDENTS and INTELLECTUALS and CIVIC ACTIVISTS in the USA go out to protest, they get bashed in the head, maced, shot at with rubber bullets, and ignored in the press if at all possible ... it's not as if we celebrate our student protesters! Is this writer high on weed, or what?]

What most citizens in the West don’t realize is that Russia has been on a war footing for more than a year. Kondrashov’s film was made for a domestic audience. Putin’s order on Monday for drills putting troops in western Russia on full combat readiness was made for the rest of the world.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

The film has little in common with journalism so [so much like wester press!] as a result, offers few new facts. Yet it provides insight into what makes Kremlin propaganda so effective—and how Putin is trying to rewrite history.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:

It seems if I want to know anything about what's happening in Russia I'll have to go to Russian sources because the western press simply can't run an honest discussion.

---

Quote:

---

[Well, shut my mouth! When was the last time you saw western media attempting to portray the Russia side?]

---

Quote:

---

[What was offered as evidence, if any? Training documents? Classes held?]

---

Quote:

---

Is there any indication that he wasn't objective? Did he report event on the ground as they happened

---

Quote:

---

I'd love to see a list of facts that the author thinks were missing, and a list of the allegations raised in the documentary along with whatever evidence was brought forth, and then whatever evidence the author thinks is missing.

---

Quote:

---

It seems if I want to know anything about what's happening in Russia I'll have to go to Russian sources because the western press simply can't run an honest discussion.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I cite the very article that was linked. It's an exquisite expose of the crap that the western press regularly spews, which you (and people like you) lap up and think is beef stew.

You should learn to do your own deconstruction of news stories.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Signym:
It seems if I want to know anything about what's happening in Russia I'll have to go to Russian sources because the western press simply can't run an honest discussion.

---

Quote:

---

It seems if I want to know anything about what's happening in Russia I'll have to go to Russian sources because the western press simply can't run an honest discussion.-SIGNY
There you go folks. -MAL4

---

Quote:

---

You and 1kiki have denied any evolvement [sic] by Russia throughout despite all the evidence. You have no credibility what so ever.

---

Quote:

---

There are facts in it, (Yanukovich went to Karkhiv, to Donetsk, and then was on his way to Crimea

---

Quote:

---

In the film, the commander of Crimea’s “Berkut” riot police claims the United States provided Maidan protesters with information on Ukrainian crowd-control methods gleaned during a bilateral exchange program. [What was offered as evidence, if any? Training documents? Classes held?]

Russian special forces stopped an attempt by activists from Pravy Sektor, a far-right Ukrainian group, to poison the water supply of the Crimean capital Simferopol. [Any evidence offered? If there was, was the evidence scrubbed from this review?]

Commandos from the FSB, the successor agency to the KGB, politely replaced a door they had broken down while storming a Ukrainian military base in Crimea. [Was this videoed and in the documentary?]

---